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Fermented blubber and fermented birds sealed into in a sealskin were the closest they got to actually makjng alcohol iirc.
Tunicate fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 13:53
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Tulip posted:This is pretty outdated. Not that stone age economics is wrong, but that it was a simple thing where farming -> more labor. We have present day farming societies where the average work week for prosperous amounts of calories is <15 hours, and to the best of our knowledge several thousand years of the neolithic was much like that. It's political and cultural changes that lead to increasingly poor ratios of hours per calorie. As an addition to this, modern day hunter gatherers are also often peoples that have historically been pushed into marginal land by other groups. Thus they have been more or less forced into a hunter gatherer lifestyle to survive. If one goes back 250 or 500 years the ancestors of modern day hunter gatherers were often mostly settled agricultural or pastoralist populations.
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Sep 6, 2022 14:17
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Mr. Nice! posted:Outside contact caused the sentinel people to lose fire. Western assholes took a family from there, got them sick with something that killed the parents but not the kids, and then dropped the kids off. Writings about the islands before this describe a lot of people and recognizable torches and well lit setups. Afterwards, the parents all died and no one left knew how to make fire. To this day they have to maintain lightning started fires in big communal pits because they do not have the knowledge to create fire independently anymore. Wasn't the guy who took the family probably a pedophile too Welll he was British so probably goes without saying
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Sep 6, 2022 14:17
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Agriculture and living in a settled society where you are able to manage your environs in depth year-round is also helps to maintain stability and be prepared for disasters, even before you get into more complicated technology settled life enables like metallurgy. It's not just the day to day you have to compare. Of course, a lot of our modern conception of hunter-gatherers comes from studying native americans in the wake of massive depopulation that destroyed or uprooted many of the new world's settled societies, as well as the introduction of the perfect creature for mastering the Great Plains, and with those conditions, it's a lot easier to give up farming and just gather supplies from the abundant now-vacant land. But also it's always been a continuum between settled and nomadic and even groups at opposite ends of the spectrum would still often form a kind of symbiosis instead of being self-sufficient on everything.
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Sep 6, 2022 16:47
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Hunter gatherer around temperate estuary shorelines should be able to out calorie just about any other group bordering it. Oyster beds alone would have been a staggering amount of protein and calories. Chesapeake bay, San Francisco Bay, mouth of the Mississippi and the Puget sound must of have been insane density compared to the rest of North America. Sit around all day eating oysters and loving. What a life.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:19
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Salmon are a massive and reliable supply of food as well.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:47
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ChubbyChecker posted:what did inuit use to get hosed up? The sky at night.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:09
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Tulip posted:Holdaway, Simon J. and Willeke Wendrich (eds). 2017. The Desert Fayum Reinvestigated: The Early to Mid-Holocene Landscape Archaeology of the Fayum North Shore, Egypt. Los Angeles: UCLA Cotsen Institute of Archaeology. Thanks!
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Sep 6, 2022 20:33
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Can anyone recommend a good history text on the End of the Roman Republic? I'm thinking ideally covering, like, the Gallic Wars to Actium. Would like something relatively rigorous and scholarly but readability/style/sense of character and narrative would be nice. Thanks!
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Sep 7, 2022 00:31
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Crab Dad posted:Sit around all day eating oysters and loving. What a life. Of course they would be loving, what do you think the oysters are for?
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Sep 7, 2022 01:30
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GoutPatrol posted:Of course they would be loving, what do you think the oysters are for? Shucking and loving so much you create landforms.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:46
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GoutPatrol posted:Of course they would be loving, what do you think the oysters are for? Instructions unclear. Shells super sharp, cut off dick.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:50
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Crab Dad posted:Instructions unclear. Shells super sharp, cut off dick. Maybe that's how circumcision started. One dude hosed up real bad and created a whole culture around instead of owning up
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Sep 7, 2022 01:53
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Gaius Marius posted:Maybe that's how circumcision started. One dude hosed up real bad and created a whole culture around instead of owning up The Binding of Isaac: Dad hosed Up
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Sep 7, 2022 07:25
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Grand Fromage posted:But are new breeds still being actively developed for work? That's the question, not whether they're used for it. Yes, absolutely. Bull Arabs, for example, are a recent breed of pig hunting dog developed in Australia. e: actually happy to be wrong on this, they came about in the 70s. Big Willy Style fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Sep 7, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 07:40
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ChubbyChecker posted:what did inuit use to get hosed up? They had amanita mushrooms, but using them to hallucinate wasn't a regular pastime. I don't know much about it because there's a lot of sensationalist bullshit out there. When relations were good with more southerly nations, they traded seal skins for tobacco. They weren't smoking a pack a day, smoking tobacco was a social activity and usually reserved for special occasions.
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Sep 8, 2022 04:04
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Grand Fromage posted:Those all fall into the aesthetics caveat though. Maybe someone's still breeding horses and dogs for specific working tasks but I don't know. Sheep dogs!
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Sep 8, 2022 11:00
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Chamale posted:They had amanita mushrooms, but using them to hallucinate wasn't a regular pastime. I don't know much about it because there's a lot of sensationalist bullshit out there. When relations were good with more southerly nations, they traded seal skins for tobacco. They weren't smoking a pack a day, smoking tobacco was a social activity and usually reserved for special occasions. 
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Sep 8, 2022 12:09
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Also when all else fails you can just starve yourself or sensory deprive yourself to start seeing poo poo.
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Sep 12, 2022 01:06
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Telsa Cola posted:Also when all else fails you can just starve yourself or sensory deprive yourself to start seeing poo poo.
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Sep 12, 2022 22:34
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:Sleep deprivation is a hell of a drug, yeah. About 68 hours or so was what it took for me to fall asleep, have a waking nightmare where I was in dream logic but quite awake, freak out my entire family and finally take enough nyquil to pass out for real. A+ would perform experiment again.
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Sep 12, 2022 23:12
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Telsa Cola posted:Also when all else fails you can just starve yourself or sensory deprive yourself to start seeing poo poo. Reading about the various ways shamanic peoples induced visions is pretty interesting. The one that stuck with me was a young dude bound up in blankets and set up in a nook at the bottom of a pit for a day or two.
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Sep 13, 2022 01:03
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How did "secular" come to mean not-religious rather than once every century?
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Sep 20, 2022 17:40
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Baron Porkface posted:How did "secular" come to mean not-religious rather than once every century? I was curious myself so did some googling, found this: quote:secular (adj.)
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Sep 20, 2022 17:50
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Baron Porkface posted:How did "secular" come to mean not-religious rather than once every century? A saeculum is like an age of the world. Secular games are not strictly held once every century, they’re more like “once in a lifetime games”—something that’s supposed to come around very rarely, as a festival of the whole era in which one lived. Christian thought sharply contrasted this present, worldly age with “the world to come”, in which Jesus returns and the kingdom of Heaven is set up.
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Sep 20, 2022 17:50
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This is neat: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/miracle-plant-eaten-extinction-2000-years-ago-silphion Also frustrating that the only way to really be sure would be to find an ancient sample of silphium with intact enough DNA to compare, which uh. I suppose it's not impossible.
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Sep 23, 2022 19:39
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Grand Fromage posted:This is neat: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/miracle-plant-eaten-extinction-2000-years-ago-silphion Is there a non-paywalled version? That one wants me to sign up to a Disney newsletter before I can read it. FWIW, you don't need very much or very intact DNA if all you're trying to do is species identification. This could be done using a method called DNA barcoding, which involves looking at a few key mitochondrial genes. Since it's targeted, you can do PCR amplification of microscopic amounts of sample. And it wouldn't be expensive either - I'd be pretty confident that if someone came to the centre I work at looking to do this, we'd quote them under $1,000 for it. And there are likely places that do it as a standard service even cheaper. I'd say the real challenge would be finding the historical/archaeological evidence that the ancient sample was silphium.
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Sep 23, 2022 22:32
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There was no paywall for me, dunno what to do there.
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Sep 23, 2022 22:55
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Grand Fromage posted:There was no paywall for me, dunno what to do there. wrong country or no adblock
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Sep 23, 2022 23:04
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Yeah might be a Canada thing. I get a prompt going "Enter your email to continue reading Dig deeper and uncover history's mysteries. Start exploring!", following which it gives a form which will only let you continue if you check a box saying "Yes! I would like to receive updates, special offers, and other information from National Geographic and The Walt Disney Family of Companies." Fake edit: yeah never mind, I just put in "gently caress.you@goatse.com" and it accepted it. And yeah, very neat. I'd be keen to get hold of some seed to try and propagate. Also yep: quote:The only real way to confirm whether they’re one and the same is if we had remains of the ancient plant to compare for analysis, say from a jar clearly labeled “silphion” that’s excavated from an archaeological site, says Lisa Briggs, a post-doctoral researcher at the British Museum and National Geographic Explorer. A recent paper she co-authored recommends the Libyan seaside town of Susa, the island of Malta, and the Greek port of Piraeus as good sites for archaeologists to look for the remains of shipwrecks that may have sunk while transporting silphion. Here's the paper referred to: https://www.mdpi.com/2571-9408/5/2/51/pdf-vor Apparently shipwrecked samples should be fine in terms of DNA quality. You'd just have to find it first.
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Sep 24, 2022 00:04
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I can't read the article either (US) but depending on how common relatives of the plant are in the diet you could probably test "cultural materials" and see what pops up and how close it is?
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Sep 24, 2022 00:47
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I always had a suspicion that it wasn't truly extinct, just no longer found in the places they knew to look. I hope it is the same plant.
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Sep 24, 2022 02:24
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Just found out the linguist Alexander Vovin passed this past April, big bummer, he wasn't even that old and was basically the voice keeping western-language historical Korean linguistics going.
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Sep 24, 2022 02:52
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quote:“You find the same chemicals in rosemary, sweet flag, artichoke, sage, and galbanum, another Ferula plant,” the professor marvels. “It’s like you combined half a dozen important medicinal plants in a single species.” yeah this is horseshit
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Sep 24, 2022 02:55
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Tunicate posted:yeah this is horseshit Read further into the article.
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Sep 24, 2022 03:03
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This guy's way of supporting his claims is very pseudoscientific. Ie: It grows after the rainy season (in about 6 weeks) just like this myth where it instantly appeared after a black rain, a kind of claim you might see in a history channel special. It was notoriously impossible to transplant and cultivate which is why it went extinct, but it must be here because some greeks transplanted and cultivated it (and then forgot it or something I dunno but I'll be weirdly specific in my guess anyway). Vague claims about medicinal plants when the supposed uses of silphium are obviously at least mostly bullshit to start with. His claims of sage or rosemary or artichoke being medicinal are their own kind of bullshit. Not to mention the weird aside about it making insects mate (you will see that on any flowering plant) as an idea for why it was an aphrodisiac (side note: the only actual primary source to it potentially being an aphrodisiac are Ovid's reference to the 'bulb of libya' being one, which could easily just be garlic or onion which they did believe were aphrodesiac.) That doesn't even mean it couldn't be silphium or something similar, it's in the same family after all, just that this guy doesn't seem like a good source for anything.
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Sep 24, 2022 04:04
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:Read further into the article. dude just has to dip into pseudoscientific horseshit once to discredit himself as a reliable scientist
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Sep 24, 2022 04:10
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i don't really give a gently caress about the professor, the culinary and visual evidence seems more compelling than the medicine angle he's trying to take. it's obviously not proof, but if this plant seems to go well with dishes that roman cookbooks recommend using it in, with a unique flavor that seems unlike other spices, and looks pretty similar to the depictions of silphium that survived...well, it's probably not exactly the same as the roman plant, but if it's close enough to become a new staple spice someday that's still exciting in its own right
Jazerus fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 04:55
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Jazerus posted:i don't really give a gently caress about the professor, the culinary and visual evidence seems more compelling than the medicine angle he's trying to take. it's obviously not proof, but if this plant seems to go well with dishes that roman cookbooks recommend using it in, with a unique flavor that seems unlike other spices, and looks pretty similar to the depictions of silphium that survived...well, it's probably not exactly the same as the roman plant, but if it's close enough to become a new staple spice someday that's still exciting in its own right this is my read as well
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Sep 24, 2022 05:12
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Scarodactyl posted:The supposed uses of silphium are obviously at least mostly bullshit to start with. His claims of sage or rosemary or artichoke being medicinal are their own kind of bullshit. I'd put money down on it causing and being used for abortions be true. I can think of at least one other plant which has been historically been used for abortions, though this was in south america.
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Sep 25, 2022 03:04
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