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You just make infinite mana and take infinite turns, it’s quite literally one of the oldest cEDH archetypes. That list looks super streamlined and pretty janky, but I’m willing to bet the pilot has been playing Teferi the whole time, and you can’t really front on someone who has like 10+ years of deck reps under their belt. You use Chain Veil + Teferi to generate absurd mana with your mana rocks and then take extra turns. Notice they even run Savor the Moment, lol! The new tech appears to be using Displacer Kitten to reset Teferi multiple times in a turn. I’d never even heard of this card before but it’s the only card in the list that I didn’t know about 
Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Sep 7, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 10:14
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Bust Rodd posted:You just make infinite mana and take infinite turns, it’s quite literally one of the oldest cEDH archetypes. That list looks super streamlined and pretty janky, but I’m willing to bet the pilot has been playing Teferi the whole time, and you can’t really front on someone who has like 10+ years of deck reps under their belt. When I saw that card, I was sure I had no idea what this deck was supposed to be doing. Like I get how CVT works in past iterations-- I used to play the deck after all. I am just not seeing the way the deck wins. Like before you'd generate infinite mana and mill everyone out or draw your deck until you can play Ugin and win, but this is on some kinda turns strategy and I'm not following what the wincon is. Is it bouncing everyone's poo poo and winning with Hullbreaker Horror beats over infinite turns? I'm not saying the deck's doing anything wrong, clearly it's not. I'm saying my dumb 6AM brain isn't connecting the dots lol (Using the kitten to reset Teferi is cool tho)
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Sep 7, 2022 11:26
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Yeah I mean if that’s the list the actual only win condition in the deck is “taking infinite turns + Beats”, so I imagine you simply demonstrate “I can take infinite turns with Nexus of Fate” and the table scoops to that, rather than sit there while you beat them to death with Hullbreaker and Karnstructs. Killing a cEDH table for a Black Lotus with Tezzeret ultimate has gotta feel electrifying, lmao
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Sep 7, 2022 12:11
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https://www.moxfield.com/decks/22VthLGPlkCx-02ei2xO3A This is my colorless eldrazi deck for other brewers to reference, I have alot of the best colorless ramp and a bunch of ways to abuse having a ton of mana laying around.
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Sep 7, 2022 12:27
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah I mean if that’s the list the actual only win condition in the deck is “taking infinite turns + Beats”, so I imagine you simply demonstrate “I can take infinite turns with Nexus of Fate” and the table scoops to that, rather than sit there while you beat them to death with Hullbreaker and Karnstructs. Killing a cEDH table for a Black Lotus with Tezzeret ultimate has gotta feel electrifying, lmao You know what? Point made. gently caress, now I want to rebuild Teferi. Power Artifact and Capture of Jingzhou though....
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Sep 7, 2022 12:31
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Yeah it does hit different when you realize these are no proxy lists. Having a real Capture means you are dedicated time wizard who has lots of money to invest in an infinite turns deck. If I were to guess, I’d say it was a matter of playskill and table talk, because I just don’t see people not taking the event seriously when it’s a $300 buyin and a Lotus is on the line. I would be minding every P & Q like a goddamn notary public.
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Sep 7, 2022 13:00
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Framboise posted:You know what? Point made. Play Walk the Aeons for one more mana or make Temporal Trespass cheaper with delve. Maybe not as good, but easier on the wallet?
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Sep 7, 2022 13:02
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I don’t think running 10 extra turns instead of 11 extra turns is going to matter, TBQH.
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Sep 7, 2022 13:03
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Batterypowered7 posted:Play Walk the Aeons for one more mana or make Temporal Trespass cheaper with delve. Maybe not as good, but easier on the wallet? Bust Rodd posted:I don’t think running 10 extra turns instead of 11 extra turns is going to matter, TBQH. Running one less turn is probably fine, yeah. I'm less concerned about Capture since it's not a RL card and WotC has been bringing back Portal cards quite often-- they did it with Recruiter, Imperial Seal, and Warrior's Oath, surely Capture isn't too unreasonable to expect sooner than later. Power Artifact, though... that's a rough card to want and not have, but niche enough that I'm not super inclined to seek it out.
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Sep 7, 2022 13:39
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Framboise posted:You know what? Point made. Pfft. Dude had a Mishra’s Workshop. Considering the number of high cost mana rocks he was running, I would argue that is the lynchpin card in getting the deck’s engine online. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Sep 7, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 13:43
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Perhaps, certainly Workshop is part of the strongest openers, but the list is sooooo streamlined and redundant, he’s basically only running lands, ramp, Interaction, and Time Walks. Personally I don’t see how this deck ever beats a Najeela so I’m super excited for the TO report.
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Sep 7, 2022 14:07
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AlternateNu posted:Pfft. Dude had a Mishra’s Workshop. I didn't even notice the workshop. drat, this deck is stacked with money cards lol
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Sep 7, 2022 14:14
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If the player has been running this deck for a while, power artifact was pretty cheap back then. I picked one up for teferi as one of my first cedh decks because of how cheap that whole list was. I think I splurged and it was like a $40 purchase or something. Now it's topping $300 because the financial aide of this game is hilariously bad.
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Sep 7, 2022 14:23
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Further evidence that cEDH is more of a threshold a deck needs to get over, rather than a fixed tier list when it comes to deck building, due to the inherent randomization of the deck, the interaction of three other deck's playstyles, the player skill levels... Like, a racecar driver can have the best car in the world, but if they don't know the quirks of the particular vehicle, how to pace themselves over 500 laps, how to drive against their opponents... 
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Sep 7, 2022 14:56
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Bust Rodd posted:Personally I don’t see how this deck ever beats a Najeela so I’m super excited for the TO report. It doesn’t. Its plan for Najeela is let everyone else deal with Najeela. I’m not joking. Najeela is such a boogie man that it is easy to look like the least threatening deck at the table until they start chaining turn spells. My Kenrith Twins deck operates on the same gameplan (although it isn’t quite cEDH level). It’s all ramp to get Will out and ensure he survives one turn, then I start chaining cheap turns with his minus ability until I can start looping walkers with Cloudstone Curio.
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Sep 7, 2022 15:00
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah it does hit different when you realize these are no proxy lists. Having a real Capture means you are dedicated time wizard who has lots of money to invest in an infinite turns deck. If I were to guess, I’d say it was a matter of playskill and table talk, because I just don’t see people not taking the event seriously when it’s a $300 buyin and a Lotus is on the line. I would be minding every P & Q like a goddamn notary public. It wasn't no-proxy
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Sep 7, 2022 15:16
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Toph Bei Fong posted:Further evidence that cEDH is more of a threshold a deck needs to get over, rather than a fixed tier list when it comes to deck building, due to the inherent randomization of the deck, the interaction of three other deck's playstyles, the player skill levels... Correct. The whole notion of "tiers" is kind of weird when there's such a wild amount of variance. cEDH is more a deckbuilding/gameplay philosophy than something fixed, cut, and dry. Then there's the whole matter of skill too. I feel like I have a pretty good finger on the pulse of the general meta and what most of those decks' main gameplan is, well enough to have some kind of a plan against whatever I face. That being said, I tend to struggle much more with actually piloting decks myself due to how infrequently I play, and how frequently I tend to sleeve up entirely new decks instead of sticking with one and getting good at playing it, because I have brainworms that love to collect and build whatever my lizard brain finds most exciting.
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Sep 7, 2022 15:17
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When I first got into edh on MTGO there were a couple players who would shark tables with an Arcum Daggson deck that ran as many mana rocks and time walks as they could and just go off on turn 3-4 to chain several extra turn spells and then assemble some goofy combo to actually win. They were annoying because everyone else was playing 2011 “excruciator has fun art so it’s in my deck” lists. I took to holding up a counterspell in my Chisei deck if I had one and they almost always scooped if you countered their grim monolith or whatever. So it’s pretty fun to see that style of deck do really well and be refined with a decade of new cards. Clearly takes a lot of political knowledge and skill to pilot as well.
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Sep 7, 2022 15:21
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Chakan posted:When I first got into edh on MTGO there were a couple players who would shark tables with an Arcum Daggson deck that ran as many mana rocks and time walks as they could and just go off on turn 3-4 to chain several extra turn spells and then assemble some goofy combo to actually win. They were annoying because everyone else was playing 2011 “excruciator has fun art so it’s in my deck” lists. I took to holding up a counterspell in my Chisei deck if I had one and they almost always scooped if you countered their grim monolith or whatever. Arcum Daggson, go get Darksteel Forge, Mycosynth Lattice, and Nevinyrral's Disk every single game, with the other players watching impotently because 99% of them were convinced spot removal was bad and that counterspells were anti-fun.
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Sep 7, 2022 15:38
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I always felt like the C14 Walker commanders were always overlooked, save for like Daretti since the cards everyone went after was the Cyclonic Rift and the medallions. Still nuts that Essence Warden is almost 5 bucks at common.
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Sep 7, 2022 16:22
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Batterypowered7 posted:Arcum Daggson, go get Darksteel Forge, Mycosynth Lattice, and Nevinyrral's Disk every single game, with the other players watching impotently because 99% of them were convinced spot removal was bad and that counterspells were anti-fun. There are two ways to learn: repetition and trauma. Or I guess just not learning and repeating the same activity over and over again.
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Sep 7, 2022 16:37
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Aranan posted:There are two ways to learn: repetition and trauma. Yeah, part of what was so funny about coming back was my paper group was full of interaction, it was just that our bombs were not good at ending games. Someone would drop Vorinclex (pre-ban) and it would get Chill to the Bone’d immediately. Tombstone Stairwell on the 2/2 beats strat was legit, etc. Seeing the game-enders now is wild even for more casual decks. I think I still have my Sek’kuar Deathkeeper list online and it would be massively improved by craterhoof.
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Sep 7, 2022 16:54
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Chakan posted:Tombstone Stairwell on the 2/2 beats strat was legit, etc.  
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Sep 7, 2022 17:04
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Aranan posted:There are two ways to learn: repetition and trauma. There's another strategy - you can say your opponents are morally reprehensible for having a comprehensible strategy that is a sensible way to end the game in victory.
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Sep 7, 2022 17:35
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Jiro posted:I always felt like the C14 Walker commanders were always overlooked, save for like Daretti since the cards everyone went after was the Cyclonic Rift and the medallions. Still nuts that Essence Warden is almost 5 bucks at common. My favorite lower power deck is my mono-W Nahiri Maximum Kaldra deck. I had an Avatar of Kaldra suited up with the OG armor set + Kaldra Compleat and immediately declared victory. 
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Sep 7, 2022 18:17
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I'm working on two and three color manabases for mtgo decks that are <5tix, and I've got a few questions I'd like opinions on: Are the new dmu typed tapped duals worth running if you're using checks and snarls, or should I just use more basics? Should I even be running snarls? I feel like they nearly always enter tapped unless they're in my opening hand. Vivids seem okay in three+ color decks. Are temples/bounces are worth running in three-color?
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Sep 7, 2022 19:07
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I'm glad you asked because mana bases have been the most confusing part of learning this format for me and I really have no idea how to evaluate them. Lands just feel so boring in terms of flavor and my brain is like no. Don't think about lands. Think about this cool 15/15 that you'll never be able to cast because you don't understand mana bases
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Sep 7, 2022 19:25
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N-N-N-NINE BREAKER posted:I'm working on two and three color manabases for mtgo decks that are <5tix, and I've got a few questions I'd like opinions on: The answer to all these questions is basically no, but situationally maybe, it depends on the deck. How many lands and how much mana does your deck need to do something to get going? How much of your tempo is thrown off by having lends enter tapped (the answer is pretty much always a lot and if not the deck has a bad mana curve). There's no easy answer to "should I run this land or not" but to be worth running an enters battlefield tapped land should do something really big for your deck, something that sets you up to win the game. Boseiju who shelters all can let you force through a powerhouse spell that changes the game. Hall of the bandit lord lets you drop your commander with haste, a lot of commanders need t attack to do their thing. The MDFCs are generally okay in my opinion, they very quite a bit in quality, and obviously the mythics allow you to pay 3 life to untap them. If you really need to mana fix badly, or really need to hit 3 colors for some specific reason, i'd almost tend to run the tapped fetches and more basics. Green can fix very effectively via strong tutors. If you have ways to fetch basic named (but not supertyped) lands in your deck and you can't afford "good" ones then the etb typed duals might be okay. If you have a card that lets you fetch a plains or two you can use that to fix by grabbing either the plains or the etb tapped. Generally though I'd try to keep tapped lands to no more than 3 or 4 per deck. Obviously I need to write something about mana fixing, maybe break it down by color and then scale it up by n-colors, but it's got so many interlinked dependencies.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:31
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AlternateNu posted:My favorite lower power deck is my mono-W Nahiri Maximum Kaldra deck. Should be called Ronin Warriors deck. Sounds dope.
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Sep 7, 2022 19:37
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Lands are a balancing act between the 3 pillars of color fixing, speed, and real world cost. If you have a deck that is a lot of colors or has big color pip requirements across multiple colors, then fixing is going to be important, which may mean running tapped duals/tris. If you're playing in a meta that prioritizes speed, then ETB tapped is a cancer that you should avoid at all costs, even if it means running mostly basics. Like most things in life, having lots of cash means you can bypass some of that balance. IMO: S: OG duals, Fetches, Fabled Passage/Prismatic Vista/Command Tower/Exotic Orchard A: Bonds, Triomes, Shocks, Slows, Mana Confluence/City of Brass B: Checks, Pathways, C: ETB tapped but with an upside lands (has cycling, has basic land types, etc) D: Everything Else This is of course skipping some single color things that are very strong like Urborg/Coffers or Gaea's, as well as some things that that can be very strong in certain strategies (like Bounce lands in Landfall decks) Edit V Also yes, this. LanceKing2200 fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Sep 7, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 19:44
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Lands are the first thing you should proxy imo, because they're expensive and boring
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Sep 7, 2022 19:46
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Tarnop posted:Lands are the first thing you should proxy imo, because they're expensive and boring 
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Sep 7, 2022 19:54
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Tarnop posted:Lands are the first thing you should proxy imo, because they're expensive and boring
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Sep 7, 2022 20:10
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pseudanonymous posted:The answer to all these questions is basically no, but situationally maybe, it depends on the deck. Wow yeah hall of the bandit lord is like 1/50 the price of paper on mtgo, although boseiju is still a bit expensive for <5tix. I do tend to run mdfcs that fit, but the mythic ones are way too expensive. As an example, here's an isshin deck i'm currently working on (the group I play with considers some cards like command tower and bolt are considered free): https://www.moxfield.com/decks/LA8EIzZ1tEemSMCQyxtBqQ This deck is really aggressive, so I want to reduce the number of taplands, but also I want to be able to cast isshin pretty early. Should I swap out any of the temples, snarls, tapped fetches, and/or vivids? Any other recommendations are welcome, as well. N-N-N-NINE BREAKER fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Sep 7, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 20:37
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At a 5 tix budget I would just run more basics over snarls. Maybe the snow duals if you're in green and have Into the North/Farseek to find them. in a 3c deck, the tapped trilands and path of ancestry would go in. If memory serves, Forbidden Orchard is the cheapest unconditional 5c land on modo.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:37
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poo poo, I didn't spot the mention of tix and mtgo so my proxy comment might not have come across as it intended, sorry! Wasn't trying to be weird about it
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Sep 7, 2022 20:43
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Have you played EDH on MTGO much before? I have found it to be by far the absolute worst way to play EDH. Holding up interaction slows the game to a crawl and people quit the moment they have to mulligan or their 1 lander doesn’t work out. It’s honestly the worst MTG experience I’ve ever had. If you’ve got a play group already then it could work out relatively well.
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Sep 7, 2022 22:43
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Yeah, we've done paper and mtgo, but one player is studying out of state so we're managing. TBH I really like having a rules engine, but mtgo is surprisingly buggy. In that isshin deck, someone stole the Aurelia with inevitable betrayal, and won the game with three combat phases, when I would've killed them on the backswing if they only had two combats And no worries tarnop, it didn't come off that way
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Sep 7, 2022 23:21
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A quick perusal of my non-cEDH lists show me that the only CIPT land that feels 100% worth it is Bojuka Bog, and after that it’s just the Ravnica Bounce duals, the MDFC Spell Lands, and the occasional Triome. There are just so many good lands that don’t enter tapped, and the average low-to-mid power EDH deck is already SOOOOO SLOW, and genuinely almost all of them would be better served by massively upping their basic land count. I wouldn’t even run Snarls in a 2 color deck.
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Sep 8, 2022 01:59
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Asked a buddy to rate duals + triomes (in general) and this is his rankings: "Power level, IMO 10 - ABU, Fetches 9 - Shock 8 - Horizon (sac to draw - I'm high on this cycle and I won't come down) 7 - Triome, Fast 6 - Buddy 5 - Pain, maybe filter, Slow 4 - Cycle, Tango 3 - Temple, Vivid, Karoo 2 - Storage, Reveal 1 - Doesn't Untap"
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Sep 8, 2022 02:08
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