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cake bunny posted:Totally possible, but as a countervailing anecdote, my husband who hasn't read any of the books, saw but wasn't a huge nerd for the Jackson LOTR movies, and didn't bother to even watch The Hobbit ones is enjoying the show just fine. The only thing he's had any real issue with was how crap he thought the CGI for the warg was. Time will tell on both the Tolkien-nerd and casual viewer fronts! I read The Hobbit as a kid but don't have any lasting memories of it. I was very unimpressed with the movie adaptations. I tried reading LOTR but couldn't get through it, but the movies are some of my favourite things ever. I'm enjoying this well enough although I don't feel it has the same heart as the movies. It's beautiful but not emotionally engaging yet. My partner is a huge Tolkien nerd and has more nit-picks than me about the show, but we're generally in agreement about it being middle-of-the-road enjoyable.
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Sep 11, 2022 20:48
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:I read The Hobbit as a kid but don't have any lasting memories of it. I was very unimpressed with the movie adaptations. I tried reading LOTR but couldn't get through it, but the movies are some of my favourite things ever. I re-watched the first Hobbit movie for the first time since possibly its release and was taken aback at how good Martin Freeman is as Bilbo and actually does a lot really well in the movie but it feels like it should be tonally consistent with the LOTR movies but it still pulls some of the fairy tale type stuff from the book so you've got the talking trolls with very standard names and funny accents, some of the dwarves are just there to be funny and fat and the weird shtick with the Goblin King but Bilbo and Gollum's riddle contest is pretty great so... 6/10? I dunno.
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Sep 11, 2022 20:58
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The oddest narrative choice this episode, unless I’m missing something, was to have the Queen fetch a sword for Elendil and sinisterly imply that he must…take care of Galadriel. Big cliffhanger moment. Then Elendil shows up next to Galadriel with his new sword and indicates that he’s been hired to…ensure that she can never again cause any further trouble for the Queen. He even says, menacingly, that doing so will be his pleasure. And Galadriel just refuses to interpret this as any kind of threat, and instead they go riding off together to visit Q Branch of Numenor. Then, thirty minutes later, Elendil elaborates to his kids, “oh, yeah, the Queen said she’s my ward now.” A couple of scenes rearranged, maybe? Because it’s like they set up a bait and switch and then forget to do the switch.
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Sep 11, 2022 21:02
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Yeah I had no idea if he was ordered to kill her or just watch over her or what. The queen said she's supposed to stay in the palace and then 5 minutes later she's off riding horsies with Elendil. Didn't make much sense to me. I'm big on Tolkien stuff. I tried to give this show a fair shake and just watch it as a show inspired by Tolkien, but I think it doesn't hold together well. Others have said it better, but there are just so many things that don't make sense internally in the show's narrative. Plus, there's nothing that really hooks you into the plot, it just seems to sort of meander around. I imagine if you don't know any of the lore behind it, it's even more jarring. You get a bunch of exposition and then you're supposed to care about stuff based on that.
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Sep 11, 2022 21:10
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grobbo posted:The oddest narrative choice this episode, unless I’m missing something, was to have the Queen fetch a sword for Elendil and sinisterly imply that he must…take care of Galadriel. Big cliffhanger moment. I think you're misreading the queen a bit. As far as I understand, she's supposed to be part of the elf-friendly faction of Numenor. She was being tough on Galadriel because they were in front of other people, but she made sure to give her a bodyguard that doesn't hate elves.
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Sep 11, 2022 21:13
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:I read The Hobbit as a kid but don't have any lasting memories of it. I was very unimpressed with the movie adaptations. I tried reading LOTR but couldn't get through it, but the movies are some of my favourite things ever. Personally, I rather liked The Hobbit a lot when I first read it as a child because I'm old as hell and my school librarian showed us the animated version, which I really dug. I didn't watch the Jackson movies because the production looked to be a disaster and trying to spread that tiny little story into three movies seemed a recipe for bloated awfulness. I first read LOTR and the Silmarillion as an older teen because I've completionist tendencies and am a giant linguistics/folklore/history nerd and wanted to see what all the fuss was. Plus I had fond memories of The Hobbit. I came away thinking that Tolkien was a very good world builder, a fantastic linguist, and someone with a really good grasp of the mythic, but not really that great of a technical writer when writing a really sweeping story like that. Seriously, having that goddamn many characters in a story is already tricky, who the hell makes it worse by making so many of them have similar names to each other? It makes perfect linguistic sense, but it's just a hard no for narrative writing rules. I've re-read them a few times since and my opinions haven't really changed that much. His writing style is just a bit unfortunate in some ways, which is a shame because everything else is very well crafted. The Jackson LOTR movies were pretty good overall adaptations. I enjoy the show well enough and while I absolutely know the books well enough to spot a lot of the nitpicks others are pointing out, they don't really bother me. Adaptations gotta adapt and nothing so far is destroying the thrust of the stories or world for me, especially considering what they're actually adapting leaves a lot of wiggle room by its nature. grobbo posted:The oddest narrative choice this episode, unless I’m missing something, was to have the Queen fetch a sword for Elendil and sinisterly imply that he must…take care of Galadriel. Big cliffhanger moment. Yeah, this stuff is why I'm pretty sure Miriel is actually pro-elf, or at least pro-helping Galadriel. It was a little clunky, but I think the point of the Elendil speaking Quenya and explaining his part of the island was still pro-elf bit was supposed to be the switch. Galadriel certainly acted like it was. cake bunny fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 11, 2022 21:28
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BoldFace posted:I think you're misreading the queen a bit. As far as I understand, she's supposed to be part of the elf-friendly faction of Numenor. She was being tough on Galadriel because they were in front of other people, but she made sure to give her a bodyguard that doesn't hate elves. No, I get that! My issue wasn’t with characterisation, just framing. The first scene where the Queen hands a sword over to Elendil and tells him to go deal with Galadriel is setting up for a classic bait and switch that the movies used a lot - where a character who appears to have sinister intent towards the protagonist then reveals themselves to be well-meaning (Aragorn does this very prominently both when he meets and parts ways with Frodo in FotR.) The episode sets that twist up, but then weirdly doesn’t activate the reveal as you’d expect by letting Elendil explain the Queen’s command properly to Galadriel - so until the dinner scene with his kids, I was unclear as to whether or not he’d committed treason by taking her to the Hall of Lore.
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Sep 11, 2022 21:29
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cake bunny posted:
I still torture my dear old copy of Silmarillion with successive readings. He really nailed down the folklorical Edda, Niebelungen, Enkidu-esque feeling in that one.
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Sep 11, 2022 21:43
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Third episode I found a vast improvement, although three episodes out of a planned forty leaves plenty of space to dive off a cliff.
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Sep 11, 2022 21:59
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It also leaves a lot of room for improvement. I'm just trying to be optimistic about something.
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Sep 11, 2022 22:06
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Show's in a funny place right now with regard to possible twists because everyone's insure of what level of cleverness you can reasonably expect. Anyway, I caught up with this and while watchable the generic TV writing is about what I expected. Lots of exposition, placeholder dialogue, and every plotline has to be spiced up with the most obvious contrived conflict you can think of. Which is fine but contrasts awkwardly with the epic feel they're going for. The show gets a bit more interesting in how it portrays the different cultures: the dwarves were a highlight last episode (they actually put some thought into how Khazad-Dûm would work! wow!), treating even a few orcs as a legitimate threat is cool (it also makes sense that they wouldn't want to blow their load early with the more impressive monsters), and while I don't care much for the Harfoots storyline at the moment (I expect this'll get a bit more exciting once they interact with more people than their own small group), they feel about right as proto-Hobbits. The "decaravaning" bit less so but I'm not sure how much of a death sentence the writers imagine that to be. What else? -Elendil's cool. -Elrond's a likeable dork, Celebrimbor's just a dork. The scene at the gate of Moria was pretty bad. -Arondir is a bit bland but he provides some much needed straightforward heroism to contrast the more ambiguous storylines. -How they write Galadriel has problems, I'm hoping her interactions with Elendil mark a start of her having a more constructive role (also people are really weird about that smiling shot). -Halbrand's in a odd place, not subtle enough to be a convincing Sauron (who if he turns out to be would make this bit https://twitter.com/elvenrings/status/1568174856264376325 actually kinda neat), but the writers are clearly setting him up as a wily "badass" type who really wants to work in a forge for some reason and I'm not sure where else they'd go with that. Again, that's a case of asking yourself how much credit you're willing to give the writing team. -Meteor Man is meh, I hope he doesn't stay feral for too long. -Didn't really care about any of the other characters. My colleague is very enthusiastic about the show and it's fun to discuss the few Silmarillion stuff we both remember, so I'm gonna keep a positive outlook.
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Sep 11, 2022 22:34
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I'm kinda digging this show so far. It does a good job of hitting the right notes of "hey this is what this place looked like before it went to poo poo" and establishing other parts of the world at large.
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Sep 11, 2022 22:51
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People are complaining about inconsistency in acting, especially among the elves. The thing is it's hard to keep them wise, austere and untouchable as they were in the original trilogy after you wrote yourself into a corner and decided to make them your protagonists. I keep watching the show and thinking "this loving gullible idiot with a sick fade lived hundreds of years? Really?". Clark definitely is the best at walking the fine line between wooden generic elf and hyperactive teenager. The high king is embarrassing though.
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Sep 12, 2022 00:00
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I mean yeah Sauron existed since the beginning of time and got dunked by some hobbits. A lot of "old" humans are morons so I assume a lot of elves just get stuck in their ways for thousands of years.
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Sep 12, 2022 00:26
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Kawabata posted:People are complaining about inconsistency in acting, especially among the elves. The thing is it's hard to keep them wise, austere and untouchable as they were in the original trilogy after you wrote yourself into a corner and decided to make them your protagonists. I keep watching the show and thinking "this loving gullible idiot with a sick fade lived hundreds of years? Really?". The fact that the elves in this aesthetic of Middle Earth just look like regular dudes that stepped onto the set playing dress up probably has a lot to do with the way they come off when they talk all wise and austere. None of the actors really have anything to work with though so I don't think its necessarily their fault. They were probably directed to overact and underact depending on the scene to try and make the lovely script compelling.
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Sep 12, 2022 00:31
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While Galadriel-talk has probably been beaten to death at this point, and I'm not going to pretend I know how to write this story, one thing I hope they do/wish they had done more of is show what a big deal Galadriel is. I think they've had places, like Isildur having a "Wait, THAT Galadriel?!" moment when he meets his dad. It would probably make the arrogance make more sense, but so far, most of her conversations have been with: people of equal/ greater rank, people that don't know her, or people that want her gone. If we get Arondir throwing himself at her feet and saying, " I thought we were goners, but I know we're safe now that you're here," or something like that, it might square up some stuff for me personally. Overall though, I'm enjoying it enough to keep going, and I still think it's capable of being great after the dust settles, we'll just have to see.
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Sep 12, 2022 00:50
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Moltke posted:yeah i get that it's not a literal death sentence, but the subtext from the prior scene was clear that being deing de-caravaned is certain death, and being put at the end of the caravan is only slightly less likely to be a capital punishment. The larger point I wanted to make was that they introduce the hobbits as having "hearts bigger than their feet" and who "stick together" and have a touching tribute scene, all of which was completely shattered in about 10 seconds of dialogue. My thing is that while getting put to the back is used as a punishment in this case, somebody's going to end up at the back no matter what because that's the nature of trains/caravans. In truth there's a pretty decent chance it was going to be Nori's family anyway because of her father's broken leg. Meanwhile, clearly rule #1 of Harfoot Club is Do Not Ever Talk about Harfoot Club. Her revealing herself to and bringing in the Stranger is a crime on the order of High Treason. The Elder sending them to the back was a "punishment" so he wouldn't have to effectively execute Nori. It also would not surprise me if the Elder anticipated what's happened (the Stranger helping Nori's family keep up) and did what he did to effectively allow Nori to prove her "case."
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Sep 12, 2022 00:53
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Does anyone else thin The Stranger is an Istari? (Yes, the year would be all wrong, they arrived on the shore, and I doubt they got the order right.)
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Sep 12, 2022 01:23
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It wouldn't surprise me if they reveal that the Harfoots are actually cannibals in the next episode. Their next camp is probably at the foot of Mount Doom.
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Sep 12, 2022 01:28
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Ynglaur posted:Does anyone else thin The Stranger is an Istari? (Yes, the year would be all wrong, they arrived on the shore, and I doubt they got the order right.) Most people think it is an Istari. At the very least it's an unspecified Maiar. Top contenders at the moment are Gandalf (or Olorin if they want to do more misdirection), one of the Blue Wizards, or possibly an uncorrupted Valaraukar (Balrog)
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Sep 12, 2022 01:43
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I do think a lot of the criticism of the show probably needs to be tempered by the fact that a note-for-note adaptation of the source material would literally be impossible even if they *had* gotten the rights to it, and that this is still mass-market television that is largely riding on LOTR name recognition. To put it in perspective, every single one of the LOTR books and the Hobbit all sold one hundred times as many copies as the Silmarillion. They were never going to make a show for the obscure lore nerds at the expense of a general audience who does not know or give a poo poo about any of that stuff and just wants to see characters they remember from the movies doing more cool poo poo.
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Sep 12, 2022 01:46
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BoldFace posted:It wouldn't surprise me if they reveal that the Harfoots are actually cannibals in the next episode. Their next camp is probably at the foot of Mount Doom. Harfoot Elder: Once upon a time things were good for us. We had steady work with this one fella, Mor-something training his orcs and wargs to be a lot meaner.
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Sep 12, 2022 01:47
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BoldFace posted:It wouldn't surprise me if they reveal that the Harfoots are actually cannibals in the next episode. Their next camp is probably at the foot of Mount Doom. Harfoots will be making offerings and sacrificing in eachother in worship of Morgoth. The caravan will be an army worthy of Mordor.
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Sep 12, 2022 01:54
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The stranger probably saved poppy’s life. She was obviously struggling by herself, and would have been the caboose if not for Nori. With Saruman pushing the cart Nori might be able to help Poppy with her cart. I’m pretty sure Harfoots help one another when they can; broken leg guy was all “we’re gonna be fine at the front of the caravan.” It wasn’t until they were ‘boosed that they started getting worried.
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Sep 12, 2022 02:00
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Arc Hammer posted:or possibly an uncorrupted Valaraukar (Balrog)
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Sep 12, 2022 02:14
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Jerusalem posted:I really dug the pit/chains scene, especially the resolution. The bulk of the episode with the Numenor stuff I found a weird mix of really interesting and kind of embarrassing: like the sets are beautiful, the palace stuff had me intrigued especially in regards to the deposed King, even stuff like the idea of guilds as a gatekeeper on social progression etc.... but then the bully bar patrons and the fight with Halbrand left me cold. Also the slow-motion horse-riding on the beach scene felt kinda bizarrely out of place. same, it reminds me of the scene in the 1980s Popeye movie where the bar patrons pick a fight with him over his one eye. Random crowd people in movies are much more likely to hurl insults and get into petty fights than in real life, where cruelty takes other forms. somebody has to call Clark Kent a slowpoke, etc. I confused Halbrand and Elendil until halfway through the episode in a bout of goon faceblindness Data Graham posted:I was kind of oh, that's what it was, combined with the talk about Numenorians being blessed with long lifespan and with tallness in the books it makes more sense, I thought it was like...picking on someone because they're from New York. I'm someone who thought The Hobbit was a long slog, as well as parts of the last two movies (battle scenes, Gollum scenes), and this episode felt pretty well paced. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 02:54
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at Halbrand's scene of getting harassed at the outdoor bar by the gang of racists. It felt like the show was making out as though a minority in a fascist society ought to be able to make buddies of his harassers by buying them all drinks and being a jokester.
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fischtick posted:The stranger probably saved poppy’s life. She was obviously struggling by herself, and would have been the caboose if not for Nori. With Saruman pushing the cart Nori might be able to help Poppy with her cart. What's going to happen when the rest of the caravan notices Nori's friend is bringing up the rear? I know, he'll wander up when some thing like a landslide is about to waste a few carts or wolves gather and they'll be happy to have him then. But not before someone notices and says no seriously there's a big person that's following Nori, she should be de-caravanned.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:11
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Maybe it is against policy to look backwards.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:13
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withak posted:Maybe it is against policy to look backwards. This is the kind of writing thought process I can respect
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Sep 12, 2022 04:17
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BoldFace posted:I hope they don't go the Twin Peaks Dougie route with the meteor man. I don't want to watch seven episodes of Harfoot antics only to have him regain his senses in the season finale. Coop.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:17
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withak posted:Maybe it is against policy to look backwards.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:23
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If I were Galadriel, rather than swim back 500 miles I would've gone through the gate to Valinor and then simply gone and borrowed a ship from the Teleri. “One ship please, my dear kinsmen,” I would say.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:30
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zoux posted:If I were Galadriel, rather than swim back 500 miles I would've gone through the gate to Valinor and then simply gone and borrowed a ship from the Teleri. “One ship please, my dear kinsmen,” I would say.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:33
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covidstomper58 posted:And they'd say, "Aren't you Galadriel of the house Finarfin, who if you just gave some of your hair to Feanör, he would have just put some into some glass instead of making some Silmarils which lead to you butchering our forbears on these same docks and stealing those same ships before you burnt them to keep from turning back? I think you should go talk to Mandos first. Yes, go see Mandos and come back in a while."
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Sep 12, 2022 04:43
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grobbo posted:The oddest narrative choice this episode, unless I’m missing something, was to have the Queen fetch a sword for Elendil and sinisterly imply that he must…take care of Galadriel. Big cliffhanger moment. I have now decided that Elendil is a very literal minded man and that Al-Pharazon has been a bad influence on the Queen who now can't help but couch things dramatically, so they both left that meeting with the Queen glad her assassin knew his job and Elendil thrilled that the Queen is being such a good host AND gave him a nice sword!  BoldFace posted:I think you're misreading the queen a bit. As far as I understand, she's supposed to be part of the elf-friendly faction of Numenor. She was being tough on Galadriel because they were in front of other people, but she made sure to give her a bodyguard that doesn't hate elves. I mean, this is far more likely, but I'm sticking with my idea!
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Sep 12, 2022 04:45
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covidstomper58 posted:And they'd say, "Aren't you Galadriel of the house Finarfin, who if you just gave some of your hair to Feanör, he would have just put some into some glass instead of making some Silmarils which lead to you butchering our forbears on these same docks and stealing those same ships before you burnt them to keep from turning back? I think you should go talk to Mandos first. Yes, go see Mandos and come back in a while." And I'd say 
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Sep 12, 2022 04:49
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Jerusalem posted:I have now decided that Elendil is a very literal minded man and that Al-Pharazon has been a bad influence on the Queen who now can't help but couch things dramatically, so they both left that meeting with the Queen glad her assassin knew his job and Elendil thrilled that the Queen is being such a good host AND gave him a nice sword!
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Sep 12, 2022 04:50
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covidstomper58 posted:Queen regent: "Go get a sword from the armory, any one of them so I can hand it to Elendil." Man-at-arms returns, "We just grabbed the first one off the rack, the armorer said it is named Narsil." Queen: Who gives a poo poo what it's called, a sword is a sword, break it and he'll just get a new one 
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Sep 12, 2022 04:51
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I wondered if it was That Sword.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:53
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I didn’t notice this either! https://twitter.com/cameronborgqeen/status/1569140876806606853?s=46&t=AfrM-6tgXdVlMJ-iDz5ZYA e: let’s see if this works 
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Sep 12, 2022 04:58
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