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Failboattootoot posted:I think it's mostly sch existing. Kardia is roughly the faery equivalent (which is to say, theoretically free and constant healing) but if poo poo goes sideways to the point where I have to actually cast heal spells, sch gets to keep benefitting from faery healing while sge does not from Kardia. This is basically what I feel about it. A few GCDs where I need to heal, res, or even just do mechanics and then the tank is lower than expected. It feels more like a punishment for non-perfect play.
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Sep 12, 2022 03:45
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SuperKlaus posted:I never played WoW seriously, never even level capped, but when I did play during Wrath/Cata I remember managing aggro during dungeons being a lot more engaging for the tank than it is now in FF14 seeing as now in FF14 there's absolutely no effort. I remember DPS classes being able to draw attention off the tank when they were doing their thing and they had their own tools to shunt the aggro. Maybe in some cases it was desired to have some mobs peel off and relieve pressure on the tank I think, and the DPS were able to treat HP as a resource more variably in that way. They gutted enmity systems in WoW about the same time that they did in FFXIV. Threat is just not a very interesting system, especially since both games have a heavy focus of mass-pulling mobs (and even doubly so needing to kite these mobs while maintaining threat in Mythic+ in WoW). Even the most recent change of making it so hots no longer generate enmity is a step in the right direction imo.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:32
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SuperKlaus posted:I never played WoW seriously, never even level capped, but when I did play during Wrath/Cata I remember managing aggro during dungeons being a lot more engaging for the tank than it is now in FF14 seeing as now in FF14 there's absolutely no effort. I remember DPS classes being able to draw attention off the tank when they were doing their thing and they had their own tools to shunt the aggro. Maybe in some cases it was desired to have some mobs peel off and relieve pressure on the tank I think, and the DPS were able to treat HP as a resource more variably in that way. Even WoW has killed off threat mechanics as a meaningful concept now, because it's just a bad mechanic overall. If your tanks are good it's a nonfactor as soon as they get a decent threat lead built, so there's really not much there for them gameplay wise. Stack your sunders, do a threat combo, then just do your normal rotation. It really only becomes meaningful when you have a bad tank, and then it effectively applies a huge damage-down to the entire group. It's just a bad mechanic that adds a lot of stress to what's already widely regarded as one of the most stressful roles.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:40
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Crackerjack posted:Serendipitously, or perhaps by the hand of providence itself, an FC mate (a hero amongst heroes) linked a shirt in chat that was exactly what I was looking for to complete this outfit. This shirt, plus the 2B pants make a convincing and villainous-looking long sleeve leotard. Oh, I am just pleased as punch! This looks absolutely fantastic. e: Threat management buttons are, in the end, going to be taking the place of buttons that feel good and fun for the vast majority of players. So naturally they're going to go away.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:42
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Khizan posted:Even WoW has killed off threat mechanics as a meaningful concept now, because it's just a bad mechanic overall. If your tanks are good it's a nonfactor as soon as they get a decent threat lead built, so there's really not much there for them gameplay wise. Stack your sunders, do a threat combo, then just do your normal rotation. It really only becomes meaningful when you have a bad tank, and then it effectively applies a huge damage-down to the entire group. The big thing with threat in WoW is that WoW also does a lot more with add spawning during fights, which is what makes "threat" interesting to deal with because tanks do have to go grab the fresh adds before they pick a healer to pummel. Which WoW gives some tools to DPS to help (Hunters get Misdirection, Rogues get Tricks of the Trade). But that stuff is more nice to have, than necessary. Just think of P3S birds spawning in and needing tanks to quickly get aggro and imagine that being a mechanic in more than one boss an expansion.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:46
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bosses should get an unavoidable mechanic where they hit whoever's done the most dps in the last minute with a thirty second damage down
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Sep 12, 2022 04:59
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Lord_Magmar posted:The big thing with threat in WoW is that WoW also does a lot more with add spawning during fights, which is what makes "threat" interesting to deal with because tanks do have to go grab the fresh adds before they pick a healer to pummel. Which WoW gives some tools to DPS to help (Hunters get Misdirection, Rogues get Tricks of the Trade). Yeah, but grabbing that aggro mostly consists of "hitting them once with tank stance up." They don't have to work on threat management for those adds, they just have to be in position to get them.
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Sep 12, 2022 05:05
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Savage loot coffers should have a "are you sure you want to be a dumbass and open this on the wrong class?" confirmation box. Just saying.
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Sep 12, 2022 05:42
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Lord_Magmar posted:The big thing with threat in WoW is that WoW also does a lot more with add spawning during fights, which is what makes "threat" interesting to deal with because tanks do have to go grab the fresh adds before they pick a healer to pummel. Which WoW gives some tools to DPS to help (Hunters get Misdirection, Rogues get Tricks of the Trade). yeah what a mechanic Presses Lighting Shot, tab, Lightning shot. Maybe 1 AoE combo if you're feeling really really frisky
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Sep 12, 2022 05:43
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Fister Roboto posted:Savage loot coffers should have a "are you sure you want to be a dumbass and open this on the wrong class?" confirmation box. Attention (Savage)
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Sep 12, 2022 06:32
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bring back fracture so i can derail limsa shout for 30 minutes at a time
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Sep 12, 2022 08:40
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Firebert posted:They gutted enmity systems in WoW about the same time that they did in FFXIV. Threat is just not a very interesting system, especially since both games have a heavy focus of mass-pulling mobs (and even doubly so needing to kite these mobs while maintaining threat in Mythic+ in WoW). Even the most recent change of making it so hots no longer generate enmity is a step in the right direction imo. Everyone's favourite mechanic of raiding in Burning Crusade - Telling the warlock to wait a few GCDs to unload Shadowbolts so he doesn't wipe the raid if he's unlucky enough to get back to back crits.
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Sep 12, 2022 10:52
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Staring down a looming mandatory 2 day rest period, my mammets came through in a clutch with just 23 cowries to spare.  "If you work hard, keep your nose clean, and continue putting in your 24-hour work shifts, I'll get another one next season."
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Sep 12, 2022 11:09
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Quick question, since we don't know the starting supplies for the next season, which crafts would be the best to build groove on D1? I'm gonna try the strat to build it the first days and rest when I see a day is nor profitable.
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Sep 12, 2022 11:12
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I feel like every bad mechanic that was taken out of this game has someone trying to inexplicably defend it where's the guy who really misses TP
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Sep 12, 2022 11:19
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i thought cross-class skills were a neat idea but even i won't defend tp
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Sep 12, 2022 11:21
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I do not miss TP or having to goad people.
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Sep 12, 2022 11:27
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Quick question, since we don't know the starting supplies for the next season, which crafts would be the best to build groove on D1? I'm gonna try the strat to build it the first days and rest when I see a day is nor profitable. It's apparently always optimal to rest day 1  Outside of that just look at the spreadsheet and definitely avoid anything that you'll later be using to combo to with your 8hr crafts.
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Sep 12, 2022 12:09
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Blockhouse posted:I feel like every bad mechanic that was taken out of this game has someone trying to inexplicably defend it Sprint using up all your TP with its duration tied to how much TP you had when you used it was good because uh..Um..It just was ok?
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Sep 12, 2022 12:17
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Algid posted:It's apparently always optimal to rest day 1 Oh! Okay, actually fine with me.
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Sep 12, 2022 12:20
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this is an old topic but awhile ago someone mentioned doing crystaline conflict as a warrior i just want to say whoever you were, i love you, this is the most fun i've had in mmo pvp
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Sep 12, 2022 14:01
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blatman posted:this is an old topic but awhile ago someone mentioned doing crystaline conflict as a warrior Just remember, don't dive into the enemy team without a plan. Use Blota to pull priority targets out of the blob, then stun them to let the rest of your team pile on. Use LB when the rest of your stuff is ready, then go ham. Bonus points if you time Primal Scream just as your DRG is about to come down with Sky Shatter. Roluth fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 15:08
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:It is 100% the buttons now that I thought about it more. Because, if you look at pre 5.0 healer kits... it's literally the same as now, the only difference is that DoTs were different spells and thus stack. Like WHM was like now, just instead of Aero-Stone spam it was Aero 2 - Aero - Stone spam. When there were cross skills you add Aero to SCH and AST. AST is the same, Scholar was just the exception because it inherited ARC's DPS kit and they didn't delete yet all the extra stuff. There was a distinct difference between HE White Mage and everything after . You had DoTs. Aero II and Aero III had different cool downs so you had to keep track of that separately. Aero I wasn't worth using unless Fluid Aura was off cooldown. In which case you used Aero to get in the weave. Does this compare to a DPS class rotation? No it was two DoTs and an OGD cooldown between rock throwing. But it was enough to keep DPS more engaging between heals.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:09
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Dr Pepper posted:There was a distinct difference between HE White Mage and everything after . That's what I said? There were more buttons, so it was more engaging even if in concept WHM only lost 1 DoT and a OGDC. With SCH being the exception because they inherited ACN's DPS kit and as a result had tons of DPS spells.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:20
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Chloromancer existing in FF14 would put WHM even further down the "people only use this in serious content because it's their pet job" well than it already is compared to AST. Sage is about as close as you should expect to that paradigm and even it's lacking compared to Scholar so
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Sep 12, 2022 16:08
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You'll never get me to run ast in savage over whm. Too many fiddly buttons to press. MAYBE after the rework but I need to see what they're doing to it. Heal dumping this tier is just too valuable to me.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:24
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Quick question, since we don't know the starting supplies for the next season, which crafts would be the best to build groove on D1? I'm gonna try the strat to build it the first days and rest when I see a day is nor profitable. Always rest on Tuesday so that you can see the starting supply. Nothing should empty out in supply early enough that you'll miss out on something.
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Sep 12, 2022 16:37
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Algid posted:It's apparently always optimal to rest day 1 Spreadsheet was weird for me this week, for example it identified garnet rapiers being best today but still told me to make them day 5 and spruce shields (C6 weak) today. Even after I swapped to a new version. Not saying to ignore it, but sanity-check things.
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Sep 12, 2022 17:00
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Bruceski posted:Spreadsheet was weird for me this week, for example it identified garnet rapiers being best today but still told me to make them day 5 and spruce shields (C6 weak) today. Even after I swapped to a new version. That's my understanding anyhow; early on it recommended Garnet Rapiers on many days, but it changed day-by-day until Friday and the only day you should've actually made them was Cycle 7. Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 18:11
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I'm resting days 1 and 2 of next week so I can stockpile materials to push for the 17k achievement. Looks like I lucked out because the discord is saying that 2 is probably the best second rest day this week!SuperKlaus posted:I never played WoW seriously, never even level capped, but when I did play during Wrath/Cata I remember managing aggro during dungeons being a lot more engaging for the tank than it is now in FF14 seeing as now in FF14 there's absolutely no effort. I remember DPS classes being able to draw attention off the tank when they were doing their thing and they had their own tools to shunt the aggro. Maybe in some cases it was desired to have some mobs peel off and relieve pressure on the tank I think, and the DPS were able to treat HP as a resource more variably in that way.
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Sep 12, 2022 18:17
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I managed to pull down 19k blindly following the spreadsheet last week. The system works? At least I don't gotta be sweaty anymore.
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Sep 12, 2022 18:20
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iPodschun posted:I'm resting days 1 and 2 of next week so I can stockpile materials to push for the 17k achievement. Looks like I lucked out because the discord is saying that 2 is probably the best second rest day this week! Would make sense if there's another factor that lets us predict supplies, maybe they follow some weekly order besides the cycles we know? I dunno if to wait a week for the achievement, I'm about to hit rank 8 but I'd need to upgrade the workshops and get the last materials, and get rank 9 for the final landmark to max out groove.
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Sep 12, 2022 18:24
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Would make sense if there's another factor that lets us predict supplies, maybe they follow some weekly order besides the cycles we know? Yeah unless they've discovered some pattern that extends across series, there's no way to know yet what the best rest days are for next week
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Sep 12, 2022 18:39
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I dunno why the thread went off on a tangent bashing Enmity or stance dancing like someone defended it as a system; all I said is that I miss having threat dropping tools because I now unavoidably die all the goddamn time where I wasn't before because they put Enmity entirely under the control of the three tanks out of 24 players, instead of a little bit in everyone's hands. It's a copy of Vanilla and TBC WoW, where the only way to control threat was to stop. Oh, unless you were playing one of the few classes that occasionally manage its own aggro, so, right, I guess it's worse than that version of WoW. It's the same when they moved Virus and Disable off of healers and put it on dps: they were reworking the system of party mitigation from primarily a healer concern to including tanks and dps evenly (tanks had one option to affect it in ARR and HW; SMN could also contribute and MNK did so naturally via their combo). They reworked enmity in StB to be more evenly under everyone's control (and even more trivial with the addition of Shirk and STR on tank accessories) before choosing to try and do away with the system in ShB. As a side effect, they didn't consider how those tools that existed since ARR and were made more available in StB weren't only tools that top-end raiders were using to thread the needle between tank dps and tank aggro, but also tools that were usable in every other content in the game. Sometimes, balance changes should be made for the normal game, because that's actually most of the game. I don't think it's selfish of me to want to have more control over my fate in a group just because I've been playing the game for a long time and can tell when a tank's going to die and I'm on deck for a tankbuster. I shout something in chat and start kiting, but that just pisses people off because I'm moving the boss or telling them how to pay their sub or whatever. Meanwhile, I don't get heals because the healers are too focused on their simple two-button rotation anyways (don't want it to be too complex, or else they might miss something important happening in the fight!), the offtank(s) don't provoke because they're blissfully unaware that the boss is hitting a new target (let alone that it's not a tank), and then I die when the boss stops moving to wind up the tankbuster that's a ranged attack that puts a giant bouncing crosshair on my head to, y'know, let others know something's happening. Anyways, I get two rezzes just in time for when I'm dead, and a third one after I've already accepted one and am getting back to my feet. Good to know there are healers watching the UI frames at least. Actually, this sounds pretty hilarious picturing it now. It's like whoever said letting the boss just apply a damage down to whoever's dealing the most damage every minute. ------- If they're trying to make changes that are good for the longevity of the game, having jobs that players can really dig deep into and take time to master aren't a bad thing. There are players who like to learn the ins and outs of everything, and they're more likely to be the kind that stick and try all of the stuff you add anyways, including the hard stuff. What makes a game easy or hard is its content, and that's already divvied up by difficulty. The jobs could be incredibly complicated, but if it only requires that the tank puts on a stance and provokes the boss and the healer heals the group once every 30 seconds, eventually the group would win. Once you get past the spectacle and the story, all that remains on the repeat viewings is the game you are playing are the people you're playing with. When you play with random people, only one of those things remains. Why not make that thing more interesting across ALL content? If your dps as a healer isn't perfect in any content, that's fine. No encounter in this game, even the hardest ones, ever required healer's dps to be perfect, even for the very first clear. Right now, the PVP version of every healer is more interesting. WAR is the most interestingly designed healing job right now. If you're worried about role representation, keep one each simple enough for the players both simultaneously intimidated by and unwilling to believe that they can improve enough to enjoy a certain job. They did this in ARR. And to players that worry about it, it's ok to mess up, and it's satisfying to improve. You letting people down and making their day worse is just in your head. The game's designed for everyone to die a whole lot, and it minimizes frustration by putting you right back at the boss. Hell, wiping in dungeons is more stressful than anywhere else, cuz you have to walk farther, but at least you get to take in the scenery that everyone just blazes past! That one guy grumbling in chat is a dumbass and doesn't really understand why the group wiped anyways; gently caress that guy. Jabbering Idiot fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 20:14
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they should put mana shift back into the game also foes requiem while we’re at it, not like bard has anything else going on
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Sep 12, 2022 20:17
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I loved throwing folks MP with Mana Shift, especially as a BLM. I don't care that it was suboptimal, I just did it cuz it was fun and I felt like I was helping folks out! Hell, sometimes I would Mana Shift a BLM as a RDM or SMN when they were in Fire Phase, imagining that they would be able to cast an extra Fire IV or two and be happy about it (they usually didn't notice and just swapped to Blizzard anyways, or they were perfect players and were silently seething that I messed up their perfect rotation, which is also a plus). I also loved spot mitigating with Apocatastasis, and trying to pronounce Apocatastasis. I even remember finding uses for Erase (Caster Role action ability that removed one debuff + healed your party member target) and whatever the hell the Melee Role action that removed Binds off of allies was called. I actually saved lives of players on the 2nd (Erased the bleed left on players who failed to avoid his dash) and 3rd bosses (removed the hidden bind traps scattered around the room) of Rabanastre using those buttons! As caster and melee! Edit: Crutch! That was it.
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Sep 12, 2022 20:31
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I liked apoc and palisade too
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Sep 12, 2022 21:13
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Jabbering Idiot posted:I dunno why the thread went off on a tangent bashing Enmity or stance dancing like someone defended it as a system; all I said is that I miss having threat dropping tools because I now unavoidably die all the goddamn time where I wasn't before because they put Enmity entirely under the control of the three tanks out of 24 players, instead of a little bit in everyone's hands. It's a copy of Vanilla and TBC WoW, where the only way to control threat was to stop. Oh, unless you were playing one of the few classes that occasionally manage its own aggro, so, right, I guess it's worse than that version of WoW. If you are getting constantly hit by tankbusters dropping Aggro isn't going to help you. You are not controlling your fate. You also pretty bluntly blame everyone but yourself. If you get hit by a tank mechanic then you are going to die but the only time that reasonably happens is if a tank is dead. And either the swcond tank should have aggro or it is a two tank mechanic which means the best you could do is kill someone else instead.
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Sep 12, 2022 21:22
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Most mobs outside of solo content run faster than players, so unless you hit sprint or are already at distance kiting doesn't do much. All it does is prevent the people who could help from being in range. Run to the tank so it gets picked up by whatever AoE they're doing.
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Sep 12, 2022 21:33
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When aggro on every party member was much closer, Shirk became an extra defensive CD for tanks by letting you sack another party member. One quirk in the current tier of P7S is the double autos hurting a fair amount. If a tank dies, they need to provoke real quick to get the double autos/tank buster focused back on them, but a lot of healers are not providing the heal ASAP so the MT has to shirk instead and hope 25% of accumulated aggro is enough to get a freshly rezzed tank back to 2nd place real quick. Otherwise, the rez'd tank is going to drop rez immunity with the provoke action and possibly just die to another auto right there.
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Sep 12, 2022 21:36
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