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The cats are most visible from the start and pretty much are at the baseline of power, no real spikes, no huge turns. I've never ever seen cats win in a newbie 3-4p game As far as I know, the best way to win in root is to get ahead but hide it very well. I don't mind it, but it's definitely good to be aware of the playing the table aspect of the game.
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Sep 12, 2022 02:08
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Major Isoor posted:Wait... the real question here is, how on earth did Monopoly cut you up? Did you jump on the battleship piece Pretty close!
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Sep 12, 2022 02:20
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painlessly? what the gently caress
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Sep 12, 2022 02:23
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Dice rolls in Root matter less than card draws once you pass a certain point of experience with the system. Amongst more competitive tables, the game is all about the cards. Sure, a game can come down to a single roll, but the path to get that point will be more driven by the card draws and plays than the battle results. Otters are very competitive solely because of how important cards are and the action economy they gain from that. Base game has a rotating power level throughout the early to mid game, with cats starting the strongest and trying to hold on/establish an economy (most effective if you pull back and consolidate), Eyrie growing linearly, WA exploding at various times, and the Vagabond slowly becoming an unstoppable monster. There’s more to it than just “punch the leader” even though late game can feel like that, it’s again more about what lead to that point.
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Sep 12, 2022 02:24
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Wow! My condolences though, drat
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Sep 12, 2022 02:55
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I have a knack for getting cut/scraped by all kinds of things that should not have cut me. Hexplore It Valley of the Dead King, for example where I was punching out hexes and managed to give myself a shallow painless bloodless punchboard cut. Coincidentally it was also Hexplore It that caused me to fall and scraped up my wrist on Root. I think Hexplore It may have it out for me. an iksar marauder posted:painlessly? what the gently caress Yeah I got loving stealth shanked by the monopoly boat lmao FirstAidKite fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Sep 12, 2022 |
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Sep 12, 2022 03:10
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FirstAidKite posted:I have a knack for getting cut/scraped by all kinds of things that should not have cut me. Huh, I wonder if you're somehow related to an injury-prone family I know.  Each member of their family is prone to regularly hurting themselves through different means, specific to them (e.g. falling off ledges for one, falling off furniture for another...)
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Sep 12, 2022 03:17
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swampcow posted:I knew I had to build but I needed places to build in. There were entire turns where I devoted myself to getting space against just one opponent and I would completely fail. Revolutionaries would blow up one of my spots just at the beginning of their turn and the birds would push lots of warriors and gently caress my poo poo up. Yeah that frustration you feel is the fairly high learning curve. It's definitely not a game that can be understood after a single play. You'd need multiple plays of each faction before you can start to get into relatively basic strategy. Of course that doesn't have to be your thing, but if the game feels "unfair", that's normal and it's something you overcome with experience.
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Sep 12, 2022 03:42
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Cats run out of building sites, but they overall can benefit from someone trashing their buildings in a clearing (clearing the sites) then re-taking the site and re-building on the now empty site. They DO get points for building. They don't lose points for losing buildings and they don't get points for keeping buildings safe (well, not directly) It can be better to lose (and re take, and re build) in a clearing than it is to defend it with a huge garrison. Save the huge garrisons to protect your stocks of wood, because if someone sets fire to THAT, ouch I think my group had the best possible overall Root experience. We're all on about the same level, generally speaking, and that meant we played and discovered and learned better play together at about the same rate. Our games usually come down to one turn difference between victors, and we can usually see where we screwed up and should have tipped things THAT way instead of THIS way.
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Sep 12, 2022 04:26
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Don't forget about Dominance victories, cats and birds can do it most effectively out of the base four factions. People tend to forget about them because they're often impractical, but by the same token that often means they forget to block you until you've maneuvered into position and it's too late.
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Sep 12, 2022 07:17
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I've only played between 6-10 games of Root so far, so I won't pretend to be an expert, here's how I feel about it: there is clearly some 'bash the leader' and 'politicking' to try and win, but since only one faction can lose points, it feels like once someone gets to the low 20s, it might have been too late. Most factions can get at least 5 points in a turn, so that is where they start to threaten to end the game. I wonder if players should see them at 12-14 and then do just a soupçon of smashing, as a treat. That will depend on the faction, of course. The Lizards and Moles might slow down more if bashed, while the Cats will keep on chugging so long as their wood is not removed. The Woodland Alliance might even look like they'll come back stronger if they end up getting a lot of new support, but I believe that is why people suggest using armies and Martial Law to choke them out instead of destroying them. And as always, there is the opportunity cost to the smashing player; acting as the 'police' while not advancing your own position, or at least not advancing as ideally as you could. Cats, early game Moles, to a certain extend Corvids don't have tons of actions, whereas the Eyrie, Badgers, Vagabond and mid-game Rats will be more likely to have spare actions. (I forget if the Rats can attack in a clearing without the Warlord.) Also, I just remembered the way that the Lord of the Hundreds mob tokens interact with the Lizard Cult's very important gardens and their low ability to attack; that seems like an incredibly rough matchup. The only game we've played with the Rats so far had two factions without buildings: Corvids and a Vagabond, so I think I am yet to experience just how badly they dampen people's enthusiasm to build lots of buildings. Obviously, a game with them and the Moles and Cats would be very messy.
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Sep 12, 2022 11:30
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After some 30-odd games of Root, I've decided that the point of the Cats is for the owner of the game to play them in an act of self-flagellation so that the other players can pick more interesting factions without hesitation.
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Sep 12, 2022 15:40
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Sokani posted:Don't even get me started on the 'it's only cheating if you get caught' people. I don't want to memorize the board state before I take a piss come the gently caress on. Why on earth would you continue to play with someone who habitually does this?
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Sep 12, 2022 16:55
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Yeah that’s a one and done
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Sep 12, 2022 16:57
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SiKboy posted:Why on earth would you continue to play with someone who habitually does this? I didn't. an iksar marauder posted:Yeah that’s a one and done 
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Sep 12, 2022 17:09
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Sokani posted:Don't even get me started on the 'it's only cheating if you get caught' people. I don't want to memorize the board state before I take a piss come the gently caress on. How does this play out in their mind? Like if they get caught, what should be the consequence of the cheating? I imagine they think it should only be like a redo of the turn or something, but who knows, because I don't understand this mindset at all.
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Sep 12, 2022 21:42
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an iksar marauder posted:Yeah that’s a one and done Yep, 100%! Thankfully I personally haven't encountered anyone like this, but yeah it'd be a hard pass from me, if I was presented with the 'opportunity' to play with a known cheater a second time
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Sep 13, 2022 00:00
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When I first got into board games I was enlisted and stationed overseas, so I got who I got. Looking back it's almost comical that I didn't see it coming, but when stuff like that would happen I was always surprised that people like that existed. I think they felt the same way about me. I definitely saw the worst of it during that time, but I'd be lying if I said I never ran into overcompetitive shitheads again.
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Sep 13, 2022 00:06
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SiKboy posted:Why on earth would you continue to play with someone who habitually does this? Because they're the only friend I have who will play board games with me, and we can get around the worst of this problem by playing coop games.
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Sep 13, 2022 01:25
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Megasabin posted:How does this play out in their mind? Like if they get caught, what should be the consequence of the cheating? I imagine they think it should only be like a redo of the turn or something, but who knows, because I don't understand this mindset at all.
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Sep 13, 2022 01:53
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He usually just backs down with a "I must have misread it" but he misreads the rules every week and they're always misread in his favor. I don't care enough to properly call him out on this so we usually just redo a turn. I don't have enough mental energy to both play the game and check his work all the time, but I wouldn't even if I could. The cheating only really bothers me when it feels like he's beating the game on his own and not letting me contribute.
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Sep 13, 2022 02:30
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sirtommygunn posted:He usually just backs down with a "I must have misread it" but he misreads the rules every week and they're always misread in his favor. I don't care enough to properly call him out on this so we usually just redo a turn. I don't have enough mental energy to both play the game and check his work all the time, but I wouldn't even if I could. The cheating only really bothers me when it feels like he's beating the game on his own and not letting me contribute. If you don't want to deal with the root cause issue, Space Alert is probably a great choice of game to play, because you have the planning phase and the resolution phase and he cannot really cheat in either...
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Sep 13, 2022 02:43
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I love board games. They're my favorite hobby and one I wish I got to engage in more. However, if the only person I had to play board games with was a habitual cheater, I would just find another hobby. I just don't consider that tolerable. This isn't a moral argument or whatever; it's just that fair play is necessary to my enjoyment. Or, alternatively, especially nowadays with things like apps and BoardGameArena, I would get my fix digitally. That makes me want to play TTA again. I played it with non-goons on BGA recently. It's great that it's on there, but it's still massively inferior to the app. But the game loving owns. We had a big arms race that depressed all our economies, and I pivoted to Culture too late, but Sid Meyer almost made up for it. Game owns.
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Sep 13, 2022 10:19
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I remember the rules for Munchkin used to say you could cheat if you didn't get caught, which apparently was intended as a joke rather than an actual rule, but was rather obfuscated by the fact that many actual rules were also written in joking tone and in my view very much in the spirit of the game's theme where people who want to "win" D&D make "mistakes" on their character sheets which don't ever get corrected unless you get caught. I used to cheat like a bastard at that game cause I thought by group was all on the same page about that being acceptable and felt rotten when I discovered that, no, I was just actually cheating.
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Sep 13, 2022 10:52
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then there's the power in cosmic encounter that if you have its super flare, you're allowed to cheat, explicitly, in the rules
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Sep 13, 2022 10:54
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There are plenty of instances of "allowed cheating" so to speak. Magic even had that with Cheatyface in one of the joke sets and there's Monopoly Cheaters Edition. These instances generally prescribe exact methods of 'cheating'. So, it's more like a 'stolen base' in baseball than it is a rules violation. Whether these actually count as "cheating" likely involves some deep ontological poo poo that I don't really feel like delving into because it will probably involve 'what is a game' arguments which I don't think are ever terribly profitable.Reveilled posted:where people who want to "win" D&D make "mistakes" on their character sheets which don't ever get corrected unless you get caught Funny enough, the only person I know for a fact cheated at MTG also cheated like mad in our RPG sessions. It was so pervasive that if one of us would make a rules error in a game, such as forgetting to pay for something or missing some restriction, we would sarcastically say, "Quit cheating, <that cheater's name>."
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Sep 13, 2022 11:38
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What was the name of that card game where you're expected to cheat by, like, palming cards and tossing them under the table or hiding them or basically doing whatever possible as long as the designated judge person doesn't catch you?
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Sep 13, 2022 14:47
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Morpheus posted:What was the name of that card game where you're expected to cheat by, like, palming cards and tossing them under the table or hiding them or basically doing whatever possible as long as the designated judge person doesn't catch you? Oh, that was Mogel Motte, or "Cheating Moth". It's one of a number of bugged-out card games with nonstandard mechanics, like Cockroach Poker and Tarantula Tango.
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Sep 13, 2022 15:01
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Magnetic North posted:There are plenty of instances of "allowed cheating" so to speak. Magic even had that with Cheatyface in one of the joke sets and there's Monopoly Cheaters Edition. These instances generally prescribe exact methods of 'cheating'. So, it's more like a 'stolen base' in baseball than it is a rules violation. Whether these actually count as "cheating" likely involves some deep ontological poo poo that I don't really feel like delving into because it will probably involve 'what is a game' arguments which I don't think are ever terribly profitable. I think the long and short of it is that everyone needs to play by the same rules, for which The Rules as Written are the usual starting point but ultimately as long as everyone agrees and consents to what's happening then a good time can be had by all.
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Sep 13, 2022 15:08
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Magnetic North posted:There are plenty of instances of "allowed cheating" so to speak. Magic even had that with Cheatyface in one of the joke sets and there's Monopoly Cheaters Edition. These instances generally prescribe exact methods of 'cheating'. So, it's more like a 'stolen base' in baseball than it is a rules violation. Whether these actually count as "cheating" likely involves some deep ontological poo poo that I don't really feel like delving into because it will probably involve 'what is a game' arguments which I don't think are ever terribly profitable. Unironically the best version of Monopoly I’ve played. It ends faster.
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Sep 13, 2022 17:27
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At some point in the past (when it was either out of stock or $100) I set up a price alert for War of the Ring on camelcamelcamel so I could get it at a decent price. That alert has gone off several times since then, and I go stare at it and then don't actually buy it because I don't have a person that I think will sit down and learn it and play it with me. There's really no other point to this post, just general sad face. I have a decent gaming crew at this point too, I just can't think of one person in that crew who would sign up for this particular gaming experience.
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Sep 13, 2022 18:38
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armorer posted:At some point in the past (when it was either out of stock or $100) I set up a price alert for War of the Ring on camelcamelcamel so I could get it at a decent price. That alert has gone off several times since then, and I go stare at it and then don't actually buy it because I don't have a person that I think will sit down and learn it and play it with me. There's really no other point to this post, just general sad face. I have a decent gaming crew at this point too, I just can't think of one person in that crew who would sign up for this particular gaming experience. I'm in a similar boat where I managed to win a copy of Frosthaven this summer in a charity raffle, and I have to temper my excitement with the knowledge that I don't have anyone in my group of game friends that will want to play it. I'm probably going to end up selling it to someone who will be able to enjoy it. 
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Sep 13, 2022 19:29
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armorer posted:At some point in the past (when it was either out of stock or $100) I set up a price alert for War of the Ring on camelcamelcamel so I could get it at a decent price. That alert has gone off several times since then, and I go stare at it and then don't actually buy it because I don't have a person that I think will sit down and learn it and play it with me. There's really no other point to this post, just general sad face. I have a decent gaming crew at this point too, I just can't think of one person in that crew who would sign up for this particular gaming experience. Keep trying and keep up the hope! It is my all-time favorite 2 player experience that my partner and I spend days agonizing over afterwards. I remember there being a rules hump to get over, but we used a teaching guide the first time and it worked really well. You could always try bribing someone to play with you  Especially when I lose to a Free Peoples military victory and I gotta go stare at myself in the mirror and question whether or not I'm actually good at board games.
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Sep 13, 2022 19:38
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Fat Samurai posted:Unironically the best version of Monopoly I’ve played. It ends faster. It ends even faster if you don't play to begin with
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Sep 13, 2022 20:00
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Last time I played Root I recruited Lizards at one of the Cat's sawmills to shut down his supply line and then had to listen to him whine about it for the next two hours. I forget if it was SVWAG or BGB who called out the "whining as strategy" phenomenon, but it makes Root in particular a struggle.
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Sep 13, 2022 21:02
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If Monopoly is just going to end in a fight anyway you may as well press the issue so it happens sooner
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Sep 13, 2022 22:11
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pospysyl posted:Last time I played Root I recruited Lizards at one of the Cat's sawmills to shut down his supply line and then had to listen to him whine about it for the next two hours. I forget if it was SVWAG or BGB who called out the "whining as strategy" phenomenon, but it makes Root in particular a struggle. To be fair, leaving cats alone at the start makes it easier to convince them to waste time punching other people later.
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Sep 13, 2022 22:31
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Fat Samurai posted:Unironically the best version of Monopoly I’ve played. It ends faster. I've heard nothing but good things about Monopoly Deal, which costs <$10 and plays in ~15 minutes
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Sep 13, 2022 23:00
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pospysyl posted:Last time I played Root I recruited Lizards at one of the Cat's sawmills to shut down his supply line and then had to listen to him whine about it for the next two hours. I forget if it was SVWAG or BGB who called out the "whining as strategy" phenomenon, but it makes Root in particular a struggle. It's a part of a fair number of games. I always think about Vampire: the Eternal Struggle when I think of that tactic, as that was where I first encountered it. It is certainly not for everyone and players need to have similar tolerances for the most part. Since it can be hard enough getting people to agree on a board game anyway, I can absolutely understand the appeal of one with less table talk.
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Sep 14, 2022 00:47
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Magnetic North posted:It's a part of a fair number of games. I always think about Vampire: the Eternal Struggle when I think of that tactic, as that was where I first encountered it. It is certainly not for everyone and players need to have similar tolerances for the most part. Since it can be hard enough getting people to agree on a board game anyway, I can absolutely understand the appeal of one with less table talk. I have absolutely imposed 'no talking about the game' rules when the whining is extremely annoying and it is ... pretty effective. If everyone has played a couple of times and knows enough to read the board state you can use that to 'signal'\ That said.. 3 player root is like a 60 minute game imho.
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Sep 14, 2022 01:09
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