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Mr Interweb posted:sheeeeeeeeeeit D: Hp has been known to prevent overheating by just choking power to the parts. Cant overheat if you hobble them. Makes the computer nice and quiet too. Most people who buy prebuilt have zero idea what performance they should be getting and HP/DELL know this.
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Sep 13, 2022 21:34
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i mean to be fair if they're pushing 1080/60 with that it still probably mostly doesn't matter, which is a big part of why dell et all get away with it.
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Sep 13, 2022 21:36
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HP computers tend to be anything but quiet. As for whether the OP should return it, I think I would. Just get a micro center prebuilt. You'll be happier with it.
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Sep 13, 2022 21:37
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There is a restocking fee no matter what, I don’t know how to get out of it.
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Sep 13, 2022 22:34
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Rinkles posted:2400 RAM is gonna be pretty limiting even for a 2600X, right? Can I bump my question?
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Sep 13, 2022 22:44
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yesish I think? not as much as 3000 series since it usually tops out at 3000ish I wanna say. but you will see gains
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Sep 13, 2022 22:45
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I mean maybe? Like I can’t imagine it’s going to make that much of a difference at the low end like that. I probably wouldn’t even think twice about the potential loss.
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Sep 13, 2022 22:45
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Mr Interweb posted:folks, i'm ashamed to say that for the second time, i failed to build a new pc. Was there anything in particular you found too daunting relating to the build? I built my first machine 10 years ago and felt absolutely sick with anxiety about the whole thing. I spent hours and hours watching YouTube videos to really run those neural pathways in well and come the time to build it still felt overwhelming at times, but after about 6 hours my dad and I managed to get it up and running and it lasted me nearly 9 years. A year after that first build, I built my dad a machine which took about 4-5 hours, but some of that time was spent scratching my head trying to find the motherboard manual that was actually missing from the box. Last year I built myself and my dad a new machine each and even with testing the build externally from the case, I had it down to about 2.5-3 hours. I don't know how to wire sockets or light switches, I can't drill a hole to save my life and I'm not a handy man with anything, but I can now feel quite comfortable putting a PC together. If you're worried about breaking components and losing hundreds of dollars, does anywhere near you provide insurance for components you're building with? Back in the day I got insurance for the components I bought through Scan.co.uk, which covers accidental damage, even water damage, for 28 days. That was a massive reassurance to me and I don't know if I would have attempted the first build all those years ago without that.
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Sep 13, 2022 22:50
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Sometimes it’s just the 
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Sep 13, 2022 22:52
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strangehamster posted:There is a restocking fee no matter what, I don’t know how to get out of it. Are we talking about the hp desktop? I’d tell them that their website did not properly represent the use of proprietary parts and that you figured you’d be able to maintain it yourself. The state it was advertised in was not the state you received it in and you want to return it at no cost. I don’t remember if the US is more of a “buyer beware” market or a consumers are protected market but its a worthwhile way to squirm out of it.
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Sep 14, 2022 03:52
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Mr Interweb posted:folks, i'm ashamed to say that for the second time, i failed to build a new pc. I've watched teardowns of a couple of different configurations of these Victus models on Youtube and.... I'm honestly not sure if you could've done any worse. The case has barely any ventilation to begin with, and the (very small) vent on the side panel is blocked off by the drive cages. Even if you pull the cages, the holes are so small that they aren't going to provide much airflow even if you glue a pair of fans on the inside. There are no intake fans anywhere, and the only fan included seems to be a single exhaust fan behind the CPU. The motherboard is proprietary, as the front I/O is all on the motherboard itself. The case is proprietary, as it has no rear opening for an I/O shield or cabling for the front I/O. The PSU is seemingly proprietary as well. If any of these need to be replaced, you'd have to buy all three because nothing will work with standard, off-the-shelf components. Return it if you can. Eat the restocking fee if you have to. That computer is going to be way more trouble than it's worth going forward. grack fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Sep 14, 2022 |
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Sep 14, 2022 04:00
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Mr Interweb posted:folks, i'm ashamed to say that for the second time, i failed to build a new pc. This isn't meant to single you out, but one thing I'd suggest to anyone feeling intimidated by building a computer is to volunteer at a place that does computer recycling. I know around here there are a couple places that refurbish and sell computers, including the local Goodwill. Get some experience taking them apart and putting them back together with super low stakes involved and you can get way more comfortable. It can still be a little stressful handling expensive parts, but when you've deconstructed and reconstructed a few dozen machines it is a lot easier. Hell, if you can get old machines for free from another source even just Frankensteining a working machine from a few old ones can be helpful. Picking up super cheap machines from thrift stores for the same purpose might serve a similar purpose.
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Sep 14, 2022 04:43
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The pre-built will turn on and it will play games but my main problem with it is that if anything dies you’re basically completely at HP‘s mercy. Is that HP motherboard going to last three years?Who knows! Maybe it’ll be a decent computer for five or six years. vs With standard parts you can reuse the case/power supply/fans if you choose to update the mobo/cpu in 6 years. If you have an air cpu cooler or AIO you can reuse that too. It’s very easy to get 10 years out of a decent computer case there’s lots of ways to get the fans to be dead silent outside of when you want them to rev up. The HP option is definitely more money in the long run because they are intentionally designing things to be disposable versus upgradable.
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Sep 14, 2022 05:34
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Mr Interweb posted:folks, i'm ashamed to say that for the second time, i failed to build a new pc. Based on the parts in that system, that has the appearance of a really good deal. I paid quite a bit more than that for an HP Omen 40L desktop with weaker specs a few weeks ago. But if I were you, I'd try some simple benchmarks and compare the scores you get with reviews of that CPU (12700). I don't know what your level of PC experience is, but you could easily run the benchmark in CPU-Z and compare your score with online results for that CPU (It should score at least 760 single core, and about 8800 multithread, if it's allowed to operate at full power. If HP capped it at a hard 65 watts, it will score less.) You could also do some runs with stuff like Cinebench R23 and compare. The reason you should run some benchmarks, is, as others have already said (and as I can confirm with my Omen desktop) HP loves to nerf systems in various ways, to prevent them from delivering full performance. In my case, the 12400F CPU scored poorly on single-core benchmarks, so I knew something was up. Turns out HP configured it to never allow any cores to boost over 3.99 ghz (when the Intel spec for max boost on this CPU is 4.4 ghz.) Fortunately, it looks like Throttlestop has allowed me to manually set the Turbo multipliers back to the Intel spec, and gives me back the performance that HP muffled. (Still testing for stability, but it seems OK.) And the RTX 3060 in my system runs very hot with HP's factory settings, but doing a modest undervolt and tweak of the fan curves with MSI afterburner has improved it considerably. Number_6 fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 14, 2022 |
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Sep 14, 2022 06:20
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With GPU prices dropping, there is IMO no reason to even consider a prebuilt from one of the big names. Build your own or have someone build it for you based on specs recommended in this thread.
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Sep 14, 2022 06:24
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just checked and the restocking fee is 15%  WattsvilleBlues posted:Was there anything in particular you found too daunting relating to the build? I built my first machine 10 years ago and felt absolutely sick with anxiety about the whole thing. I spent hours and hours watching YouTube videos to really run those neural pathways in well and come the time to build it still felt overwhelming at times, but after about 6 hours my dad and I managed to get it up and running and it lasted me nearly 9 years. i guess for me two big ones were installing the cpu fan and all the cable stuff with the power supply. most everything else seemed fairly straightforward, but those two things seemed a bit tricky from what i've seen. MarcusSA posted:Sometimes it’s just the i mean, if i bought the parts, i would definitely take my time building it. not that the lack of effort wasn't a bonus with getting the pre-built, but the larger issue was i was scared i'd mess something up. CatelynIsAZombie posted:Are we talking about the hp desktop? I’d tell them that their website did not properly represent the use of proprietary parts and that you figured you’d be able to maintain it yourself. The state it was advertised in was not the state you received it in and you want to return it at no cost. yeah i'm in the U.S. will attempt to try this, but i doubt i'll be successful  grack posted:I've watched teardowns of a couple of different configurations of these Victus models on Youtube and.... Number_6 posted:Based on the parts in that system, that has the appearance of a really good deal. I paid quite a bit more than that for an HP Omen 40L desktop with weaker specs a few weeks ago. But if I were you, I'd try some simple benchmarks and compare the scores you get with reviews of that CPU (12700). I don't know what your level of PC experience is, but you could easily run the benchmark in CPU-Z and compare your score with online results for that CPU (It should score at least 760 single core, and about 8800 multithread, if it's allowed to operate at full power. If HP capped it at a hard 65 watts, it will score less.) You could also do some runs with stuff like Cinebench R23 and compare. thanks, will try this out if i can't return it
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Sep 14, 2022 06:52
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I remember my first bad experience with HP. It was 1996. Their business line and servers are alright but they're assholes about support; even getting firmware updates and stuff. Just avoid them if you can.
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Sep 14, 2022 08:18
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Rexxed posted:I remember my first bad experience with HP. It was 1996. Their business line and servers are alright but they're assholes about support; even getting firmware updates and stuff. Just avoid them if you can. I had an HP-branded motherboard from like 2006 or 2007 that I was able to determine was essentially just a cosmetic rebranding of an off-the-shelf MSI motherboard. I was able to flash the MSI BIOS onto it and it was like a different machine - I could actually change settings and overclock and everything. The difference between the gimped proprietary HP BIOS and the stock MSI was really night and day.
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Sep 14, 2022 08:59
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also, just to know where i'm coming from, i bought this computer 2 years ago: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-ref...berID=178348324 i bought it for $400 or so, and it's done me well so far. only thing that really bugged me about it was the lack of a discrete gpu. other than that, i've been able to run all my photo and video editing programs with 50 browser tabs open in opera without a hitch. not that i'm mr. moneybags or anything, but i figured even if it disappointed/broke, it was just a $400 pc. however, a nearly $1,000 pc is a different matter...
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Sep 14, 2022 08:59
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it doesn't sound like you were doing anything that would have been too intensive, except for some rendering (that doesn't sound like it was too demanding?) with your old computer, so you wouldn't have really run into the problems you get from a poorly designed prebuilt, which are much more noticeable with gaming since it's more intensive meaning that having adequate cooling is actually important. because it's HP it still might have been limiting or throttling the CPU when rendering still but you probably wouldn't have noticed without something to compare to, while poor gaming performance is pretty immediately obvious. decent enough prebuilts do exist though, you should ask the thread next time for suggestions if you don't feel up to building one yourself and people will help you find a deal on one that is worthwhile rather than one that's an oven
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Sep 14, 2022 10:39
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Mr Interweb posted:also, just to know where i'm coming from, i bought this computer 2 years ago: Elitedesk is their business line stuff so it's pretty normal. I've got a couple of skylake i5s that were hand me downs from a friend I use for non critical stuff and an elitedesk mini I use as a portable PC if I need to. Business line is fine for office work. It's the consumer grade and "gaming" stuff that ends up being pretty terrible. Dell got really bad with Alienware, too. It's just why it's worth asking about prebuilts in the thread because there's plenty of places that just put known okay components together that are fine to buy from, and then there's these big companies that sell cut down stuff with bad airflow and coast on their brand name.
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Sep 14, 2022 10:43
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CatelynIsAZombie posted:Are we talking about the hp desktop? I’d tell them that their website did not properly represent the use of proprietary parts and that you figured you’d be able to maintain it yourself. The state it was advertised in was not the state you received it in and you want to return it at no cost. What country are you from? Not the US
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Sep 14, 2022 15:17
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In my search for cheaper cases, I've inevitably been looking at older models. What has stuck out to me is that side ventilation wasn't that uncommon (which I think the Lancool demonstrates is great for GPUs), even if overall airflow wasn't the best. tempered glass was a mistake  (the plastic (PCB?) in the second case looks nasty)
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Sep 14, 2022 19:15
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the thing that i never knew about tempered glass is that it completely negates any function the i/o shield has, lol
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Sep 14, 2022 19:21
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This abysmal thing has been floating around Newegg since Hector was a pup, I swear
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Sep 14, 2022 19:28
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some people legit want their 5.25 bays, god bless them
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Sep 14, 2022 19:34
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Rinkles posted:In my search for cheaper cases, I've inevitably been looking at older models. What has stuck out to me is that side ventilation wasn't that uncommon (which I think the Lancool demonstrates is great for GPUs), even if overall airflow wasn't the best. tempered glass was a mistake Before tempered glass windows, a ton of the plastic side windows had 120mm fans for ventilation straight on the GPU. They tended not to be filtered there, though. My ancient budget case from 2009 has filters on the front fans, but none on the side: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/cooler-master-storm-scout/3.html 140mm intake fan, even! Edit: What happened to the cheapo NZXT cases? Is there anything like that still around? I did 2 or 3 builds in these and they were perfectly decent: https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4331/nzxt_source_210_elite_white_mid_tower_case_review/index.html I haven't seen decent cases anywhere near as cheap since. These were $40! Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Sep 14, 2022 |
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Sep 14, 2022 20:43
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Filters are cheap, you can just buy one if you're using a side intake. A lot of them have holes that match the screw holes on fans so they're really easy to attach if the fan mount is on a plastic section. It's what I did on my old Zalman
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Sep 14, 2022 20:50
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Twerk from Home posted:Before tempered glass windows, a ton of the plastic side windows had 120mm fans for ventilation straight on the GPU. I think shipping costs are the real budget killer, atm.
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Sep 14, 2022 20:58
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tariffs on cases never went away iirc. they went away on some other stuff but never did for cases. in this country CiT makes really cheap cases, uh kolink i think does - a bunch of no name brands at the ultralowend. go on idk slickdeals or something because they're the ones that get marked down super hard (because they're not actually worth their sticker usually, lol).
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Sep 14, 2022 21:04
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On the topic of filtered intakes: keep the case positive. My corsair 500D has three intake fans one exhaust in the back in an AIO up top that I was running as exhaust Because my airflow was neutral to maybe slightly negative I ended up getting dust creeping in absolutely everywhere because it was on the ground. I flipped my AIO to be an intake so now I have 5 filtered fans pulling air in and there is zero dust sneaking in the cracks. I actually got an improvement on my GPU thermals because it forces the hot air out the back of the PCI slots. On my wife’s case I reduced to the number of top exhaust fans I had for the same reason. I think somewhere in the knowledge of “heat rises” it was sort of lost that the air that’s coming in the front should do something before it’s immediately yanked out the top of the case. My generic advice to people is to have as many filtered intake fans as your case lets you have. I actually saw Paul from Paul’s Hardware do nine intake fans and he said it was best. https://youtu.be/tkfengnRF9c
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Sep 14, 2022 23:55
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With enough intake fans you don't even need an exhaust. The Fractal Torrent proves that one pretty well.
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Sep 15, 2022 00:07
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It helps that the entire rear panel of the Torrent is a very open grate rather than solid metal with some holes here and there. The wall of air moved by those 180x35mm(i think?) fans is pushed right through that rear panel with no resistance. If your case has a more traditional rear panel, you'll probably want an exhaust fan to help guide and move the air out of the case. edit: to show what i mean:  there's really very little need for an exhaust fan with a rear panel like that. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 00:13
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if I mounted anything but an exhaust at the back it would be directly in front of and pointed against the CPU cooler exhaust fan. all intake otherwise tho.
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Sep 15, 2022 00:17
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grack posted:With enough intake fans you don't even need an exhaust. The Fractal Torrent proves that one pretty well. That case was actually my inspiration and I’ve taken the time to make sure that all of my PCI slot covers are as ventilated as possible including the two that are for a vertical mounted GPU.
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Sep 15, 2022 00:40
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spunkshui posted:On the topic of filtered intakes: keep the case positive. I wonder if I should install fans on the top of the case just to tip the balance of intake vs exhaust, because my case has been getting very dusty lately (I didn't make the connection earlier, but it might have gotten worse when I added the exhaust fans for the GPU). I was actually gonna ask soon about how to best clean a CPU cooler finstack, because I think the dust might be beginning to affect its performance.
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Sep 15, 2022 00:47
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Rinkles posted:I wonder if I should install fans on the top of the case just to tip the balance of intake vs exhaust, because my case has been getting very dusty lately (I didn't make the connection earlier, but it might have gotten worse when I added the exhaust fans for the GPU). What case do you have? Generally you want to introduce cooler air across the GPU rather than try and take hot air away, so an intake is likely better than exhaust. Compressed air to clean the fin stack. Make sure you clean the finstack first cause that dust will get blown onto the rest of the case.
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Sep 15, 2022 00:59
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Rinkles posted:I wonder if I should install fans on the top of the case just to tip the balance of intake vs exhaust, because my case has been getting very dusty lately (I didn't make the connection earlier, but it might have gotten worse when I added the exhaust fans for the GPU). You have the Lancool II, right? Did you tape off the opening on the bottom of the front panel? edit: and if you have fans on the PSU shroud, those should be configured as intake rather than exhaust. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 01:02
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Rinkles posted:I wonder if I should install fans on the top of the case just to tip the balance of intake vs exhaust, because my case has been getting very dusty lately (I didn't make the connection earlier, but it might have gotten worse when I added the exhaust fans for the GPU). If it has a filter toss an intake fan behind it I say. If all your filters have intakes then all your cracks and mesh holes will be exhaust. Rinkles posted:I was actually gonna ask soon about how to best clean a CPU cooler finstack, because I think the dust might be beginning to affect its performance. Take it out and wash it in a sink. Anyone with an AIO as exhaust you might want to look at it. Specifically if it has trapped dust between the fan and the radiator. The sink does wonders for a filthy radiator. Never doing neutral / negative fans again.
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Sep 15, 2022 01:10
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:What case do you have? Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:edit: and if you have fans on the PSU shroud, those should be configured as intake rather than exhaust. I was wrong about their orientation. They're blowing air towards the GPU (when I tested them flipped around that increased GPU temps). Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:You have the Lancool II, right? Did you tape off the opening on the bottom of the front panel? Yeah. I put a cardboard cutout into the opening. It's a pretty tight fit, but maybe I should seal it with tape.
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Sep 15, 2022 01:10
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