Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Victoria 3: the 1960 german unification play comes with a few complications

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Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

like most liberals i support collectivization

# ? Sep 14, 2022 21:24

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# ? May 31, 2024 12:13

hot cocoa on the couch: Dec 8, 2009

Lady Radia posted:

like most liberals i support collectivization

lol

# ? Sep 14, 2022 21:24

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

MonsieurChoc posted:

You're just being completely wrong though.

From reading just your posts though I couldn't begin to see how though.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 21:29

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Raenir Salazar posted:

From reading just your posts though I couldn't begin to see how though.

I dont care if I eat a probation for this but holy poo poo just loving drop it, this thread isnt here to debate how you, a random dumb goon on the internet, use terminology.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 21:38

Enjoy: Apr 18, 2009

Gaius Marius posted:

When you think of it a communism is just a large corporation...

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/ichtci/11.htm#v25zz99h-360

quote:

Now try to substitute for the Junker-capitalist state, for the landowner-capitalist state, a revolutionary-democratic state, i.e., a state which in a revolutionary way abolishes all privileges and does not fear to introduce the fullest democracy in a revolutionary way. You will find that, given a really revolutionary-democratic state, state- monopoly capitalism inevitably and unavoidably implies a step, and more than one step, towards socialism!

For if a huge capitalist undertaking becomes a monopoly, it means that it serves the whole nation. If it has become a state monopoly, it means that the state (i.e., the armed organisation of the population, the workers and peasants above all, provided there is revolutionary democracy) directs the whole undertaking. In whose interest?

Either in the interest of the landowners and capitalists, in which case we have not a revolutionary-democratic, but a reactionary-bureaucratic state, an imperialist republic.

Or in the interest of revolutionary democracy�and then it is a step towards socialism.

For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 21:59

Yaoi Gagarin: Feb 20, 2014

Enjoy posted:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/ichtci/11.htm#v25zz99h-360

You know I've been thinking the same thing lately but couldn't put it in words, this dude seems smart!!

# ? Sep 14, 2022 22:01

Enjoy: Apr 18, 2009

VostokProgram posted:

You know I've been thinking the same thing lately but couldn't put it in words, this dude seems smart!!

On the other hand

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm

quote:

Political economy starts from labor as the real soul of production; yet to labor it gives nothing, and to private property everything. Confronting this contradiction, Proudhon has decided in favor of labor against private property[21]. We understand, however, that this apparent contradiction is the contradiction of estranged labor with itself, and that political economy has merely formulated the laws of estranged labor.

We also understand, therefore, that wages and private property are identical. Indeed, where the product, as the object of labor, pays for labor itself, there the wage is but a necessary consequence of labor�s estrangement. Likewise, in the wage of labor, labor does not appear as an end in itself but as the servant of the wage. We shall develop this point later, and meanwhile will only draw some conclusions. ||XXVI| [22]

An enforced increase of wages (disregarding all other difficulties, including the fact that it would only be by force, too, that such an increase, being an anomaly, could be maintained) would therefore be nothing but better payment for the slave, and would not win either for the worker or for labor their human status and dignity.

Indeed, even the equality of wages, as demanded by Proudhon, only transforms the relationship of the present-day worker to his labor into the relationship of all men to labor. Society would then be conceived as an abstract capitalist.

Wages are a direct consequence of estranged labor, and estranged labor is the direct cause of private property. The downfall of the one must therefore involve the downfall of the other.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 22:05

Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

imo that lenin guy?? real problematic.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 22:07

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Enjoy posted:

On the other hand

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm

I like Marx's writings, I hope to finish reading DK at some point.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 22:15

Gaius Marius: Oct 9, 2012

Marx could put Ambien out of business

# ? Sep 14, 2022 22:23

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

It�s a political breakdown book, if you want excitement that�s literally what pulp novels are for

# ? Sep 14, 2022 22:43

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

CharlestheHammer posted:

It�s a political breakdown book, if you want excitement that�s literally what pulp novels are for

Yeah for me it comes down to two things, better appreciating my current sociopolitical circumstances and why things might be happening as they are; because you know, if you've ever had "politics" discussions with friends or family and you have a nagging feeling of, "Something with what they said isn't right but it would involve unpacking some bigger systemic context that I also don't understand and can't formulate into a coherent argument" I feel like Marx and Kropotkin might be places to start to be better equipped to say something potentially substantial when such conversations occur. Like why UBI is a good idea, etc.

And more thread relevant because I think its probably foundational to designing/developing games in the same genre as Victoria 3, which is also of interest to me as a game developer.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 22:56

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Hmm, a whole bunch of new posts in the Victoria thread all of a sudden, I wonder what that's about? Some new revelation? Major debate over some aspect of gameplay?

Oh it's just Raenir Salazar being incredibly tedious and earning his avatar again.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:04

Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

i am going to play as the two sicilies on launch and build a massive empire based on wineries and sugar :devil:

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:21

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Tomn posted:

Hmm, a whole bunch of new posts in the Victoria thread all of a sudden, I wonder what that's about? Some new revelation? Major debate over some aspect of gameplay?

Oh it's just Raenir Salazar being incredibly tedious and earning his avatar again.

Have you consider that making posts like these are just as responsible for perpetuating a derail you dislike? At some point it isn't lampshade hanging its beating a dead horse by making posts that are more tedious pointing it out than simply ignoring it and moving on, you haven't actually said anything new or more insightful than the several other posters who already have indicated how tired they are of this derail.

To put it in words of a poster making decent advice (which I'll be taking):

AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

but holy poo poo just loving drop it

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:22

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Lady Radia posted:

i am going to play as the two sicilies on launch and build a massive empire based on wineries and sugar

same, two sicilies was the only european country i bothered to play in v2 and i'm looking forward to playing it without the jank

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:40

Agean90: Jun 28, 2008

Lady Radia posted:

i am going to play as the two sicilies on launch and build a massive empire based on wineries and sugar

i like the Galicia aar in the discord where they turned the country into a giant grain farm and it was incredibly effective

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:49

Ithle01: May 28, 2013

Lady Radia posted:

i am going to play as the two sicilies on launch and build a massive empire based on wineries and sugar

This post reminded me of something and I know you can't answer, but maybe someone can. So, is cocaine a luxury good at some point? Do I have to unlock a bunch of techs first? I just want to make real honest Coca-Cola, not the awful carbonated sugar water slop, but the real thing. And then someday I'll find a way to form a trade company and make the Coca-Cola company a force to reckon with.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:50

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

I remember reading a book about the history of Italy and how in the 1880's Italy picked a tarriff war with France over wine and I think they basically ended up losing? From looking at the dev diary for tariffs it seems like you can set like five levels of tariffs; I wonder how well tariff wars are represented in practice and their repercussions.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:51

Servetus: Apr 1, 2010

I kind of want to try Afghanistan, and see if it's possible to start as a British dominion like Canada or Newfoundland. The world will fear my fishing dominance.

# ? Sep 14, 2022 23:59

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Servetus posted:

I kind of want to try Afghanistan, and see if it's possible to start as a British dominion like Canada or Newfoundland. The world will fear my fishing dominance.

Watch out for Denmark!

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:18

NoNotTheMindProbe: Aug 9, 2010; pony porn was here

Servetus posted:

I kind of want to try Afghanistan, and see if it's possible to start as a British dominion like Canada or Newfoundland. The world will fear my fishing dominance.

It's already confirmed that there are a bunch of semi-autonomous colonies around the world you can play as including Canada, New South Wales, Cuba, IEC and Dutch Netherlands.

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:18

Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

Servetus posted:

I kind of want to try Afghanistan, and see if it's possible to start as a British dominion like Canada or Newfoundland. The world will fear my fishing dominance.

One of the dev AARs is as Canada and it looks pretty good, I recommend checkin' it out!

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:18

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

I'd love to somehow just play as an independent BC or Vancouver Island Colony and like build some logging and mills and have a lovely time.

Does anyone have a list of releasable or formable nations? I'd love to know how canada shakes out. Since the area is pretty up for grabs it would be real cool to see a BC/WA/OR Cascadia zone form as a little babby nation.

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:20

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Gonna play Newfoundland and see if I can cause the cod crash a century earlier than irl

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:33

NoNotTheMindProbe: Aug 9, 2010; pony porn was here

DaysBefore posted:

Gonna play Newfoundland and see if I can cause the cod crash a century earlier than irl

It looks like you can play as Columbia, HBC, Upper or Lower Canada and Newfoundland.

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:50

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Oh yeah I knew about the HBC because I saw this

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:53

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

It looks like you can play as Columbia, HBC, Upper or Lower Canada and Newfoundland.

Oh man "Columbian District" is exactly what I want to try for.

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:56

DaysBefore: Jan 24, 2019

Going to bring the full weight of the British Empire down on the Americans in order to finally reclaim Point Roberts

# ? Sep 15, 2022 00:57

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

NoNotTheMindProbe posted:

It looks like you can play as Columbia, HBC, Upper or Lower Canada and Newfoundland.

Watch Britain snake around the USA and sniping California from Mexico to cut off the USA. :rolleyes:

# ? Sep 15, 2022 01:13

Arrath: Apr 14, 2011

Raenir Salazar posted:

Watch Britain snake around the USA and sniping California from Mexico to cut off the USA.

This feels like it would be a pretty solid goal as the UK, tbh.

Cut the USA off from, i imagine, some useful gold mines, and use that funding to bully Prussia/France around. :getin:

I'm just kind of eternally chasing the dragon of that one EU4 run where, as Britain, I lucked into a PU with France that rolled into me integrating them into the great red blob and pursuing the rest of the continent.

# ? Sep 15, 2022 01:31

Raenir Salazar: Nov 5, 2010; College Slice

Arrath posted:

This feels like it would be a pretty solid goal as the UK, tbh.

Cut the USA off from, i imagine, some useful gold mines, and use that funding to bully Prussia/France around.

I'm just kind of eternally chasing the dragon of that one EU4 run where, as Britain, I lucked into a PU with France that rolled into me integrating them into the great red blob and pursuing the rest of the continent.

Yes to be clear I'm joking and channeling typical MP Paradox experiences

# ? Sep 15, 2022 01:40

Radia: Jul 14, 2021; And someday, together.. We'll shine.

DaysBefore posted:

Oh yeah I knew about the HBC because I saw this

holy poo poo

# ? Sep 15, 2022 01:43

Koramei: Nov 11, 2011; I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

Being isolationist for the first game actually seems like a pretty good idea imo after watching the Japan stream. Seems like it�ll be a lot easier to keep track of everything going on compared to having to face the full complexity of the world market.

So yeah was planning on starting as Korea anyway but even more definitely gonna do that.

# ? Sep 15, 2022 03:32

Archduke Frantz Fanon: Sep 7, 2004

DaysBefore posted:

Oh yeah I knew about the HBC because I saw this

please make this the thread background

# ? Sep 15, 2022 03:47

hot cocoa on the couch: Dec 8, 2009

DaysBefore posted:

Oh yeah I knew about the HBC because I saw this

lol yes.... YES !!!

# ? Sep 15, 2022 03:48

Horsebanger: Jun 25, 2009; Steering wheel! Hey! Steering wheel! Someone tell him to give it to me!

The second stream was a lot better than the first despite the cursed british inland china.

It was interesting to see how expanding certain buildings will impact the IGs, and how overcoming the Shogunate IG is a massive hurdle for Japan to clear, not as simple as just clicking the buttons in viccy 2.

The Treaty ports seem well done. There is a benefit to having them which basically breaks open the market for the person you steal them off, that is rediculously powerful in the design of this game and is cool, as opposed to viccy 2 where I'm confused what they did.

its only just over a month away :O

# ? Sep 15, 2022 03:55