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A big flaming stink posted:There is honestly no conversation taht can be had about this stuff with people that want and are having kids. Just let them be, the only result of such a conversation will be starting a fight It feels so abusive vs living fast and burning out before things get too bad. They're prolonging the inevitable vs just wrapping things up.
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Sep 15, 2022 01:17
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slurm posted:It feels so abusive vs living fast and burning out before things get too bad. They're prolonging the inevitable vs just wrapping things up. What do you mean by "dealing with them", like justifying how you feel about our likely future to them, or trying to get them on your level, or directly bringing their kid into the conversation? There's a world full of people it's difficult to get to seriously accept and engage with climate change, I give parents of children a break. They have more reason than anybody to not want to believe it, and more deep hurt (in a sense) associated with reckoning with it. Probably better to have somebody scream at or even fight you than watch them break apart. It's a question of living your truth versus pushing it I guess. People with adult children or openly desiring to have kids are fair game though and should be exposed IMO, if ya don't mind potentially alienating yourself from people. *The expectation and desire that all this is "for us" and will continue to yield what we rely upon is one of the biggest problems in the way of real change. *edit* not just parents but everybody. Regarding parents more in the way of knowing what world you'll be a parent in, not some kind of selfishness of breeding like that one bizarre philosopher. BRJurgis fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 02:30
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I guess I want to make them break apart?
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Sep 15, 2022 02:33
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slurm posted:I guess I want to make them break apart? Having kids is A+#1 most natural, deeply impactful to most, and an often unplanned and rather irreversible commitment of years (to most). Attacking people for being parents is like the biggest loving line in the sand imaginable what is to be gained? Maybe I am misunderstanding you, or you are successfully trolling me?
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Sep 15, 2022 02:43
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BRJurgis posted:Having kids is A+#1 most natural, deeply impactful to most, and an often unplanned and rather irreversible commitment of years (to most). Attacking people for being parents is like the biggest loving line in the sand imaginable what is to be gained? Having kids is also the biggest thing you can do to expand your carbon footprint, at least in the West. It's climate arson in a way basically nothing else is and parents basically seem to just write it off. It's basically private jet level bad but much more common and people need to realize this.
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Sep 15, 2022 02:47
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slurm posted:Having kids is also the biggest thing you can do to expand your carbon footprint, at least in the West. It's climate arson in a way basically nothing else is and parents basically seem to just write it off. It's basically private jet level bad but much more common and people need to realize this. Are you vegan
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Sep 15, 2022 02:47
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Enjoy posted:Are you vegan No, but living the way I do I'm not likely to live long enough for it to matter much either. Lifetime of emissions crammed into a few years of hedonism while things are still nice.
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Sep 15, 2022 02:50
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slurm posted:No, but living the way I do I'm not likely to live long enough for it to matter much either. Lifetime of emissions crammed into a few years of hedonism while things are still nice. How surprising
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Sep 15, 2022 02:51
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Enjoy posted:How surprising If everyone followed my example we'd be at zero human emissions in, at most, a decade. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 15, 2022 02:53
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So you want to shame people into your suicide pact because you don't like seeing them live differently than you?
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Sep 15, 2022 02:56
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Dameius posted:So you want to shame people into your suicide pact because you don't like seeing them live differently than you? I don't see a way through this without significant degrowth, to be honest. We could have a big dangerous party of a world until we hit the levels we need or we could fret over retirements and try to live forever right up until the reality of the situation degrows us anyway.
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Sep 15, 2022 03:00
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Is there true altruism? People care, or should care, on some (perhaps partially subconscious) level about their time here, not even just legacy. Its part of how we understand our existence. How do you feel about all this and what do you want to do about it? Even if there's no satisfying effective way to fight you can still be a soldier in spirit. I don't mean pretending it's enough or going to work, but the fight can make you present. And do you want to spend your time "breaking parents"? More hedonistic to fight with love than hate. And more effective, individuals are our allies if at all possible, the systems we've built and been born into are our foes.
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Sep 15, 2022 03:05
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I expect that all of the parents who decline to acknowledge the reality of their children's future will be forced to face it when those children demand an explanation for the suffering inflicted on them by those parents. It's a moot point anyway, parents can't be persuaded, and yeah, they frequently don't get to choose in a meaningful way.
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Sep 15, 2022 07:34
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slurm posted:No, but living the way I do I'm not likely to live long enough for it to matter much either. Lifetime of emissions crammed into a few years of hedonism while things are still nice. Are you childless by choice though, op? Do you live in a stable healthy romantic relationship that could support a child? I'm not trying to get in a sick burn on you, I'm genuinely curious why your idgaf about personal emissions hedonism doesn't involve children.
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Sep 15, 2022 11:38
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slurm posted:If everyone followed my example we'd be at zero human emissions in, at most, a decade. If we all followed the example of Ethiopians the US would be at 0.6% emissions which would be adequate. What is your aim? Do you want to reduce emissions to reduce climate change impacts or do you believe it is a lost cause and you're just living your best life until the end? If it's the former then subsistence farming and avoiding all modern technology and conveniences is fine. It's a dull and umpleasant life but it's not difficult. If it's the latter then why do you care if others are living their best lives in a different way? I think you made a choice to kill yourself rather than reduce your standard of living and now you want to guilt trip parents for having carbon emitting children so you can pretend that your choice to have a big end of the world carbon emission party is morally superior.
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Sep 15, 2022 12:19
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*guy that does a bag of coke once a month*: I'm living too fast to kill the planet, this is my sacrifice
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Sep 15, 2022 12:30
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Dukberry posted:I expect that all of the parents who decline to acknowledge the reality of their children's future will be forced to face it when those children demand an explanation for the suffering inflicted on them by those parents. It's a moot point anyway, parents can't be persuaded, and yeah, they frequently don't get to choose in a meaningful way. Forced to face reality like our parents and their parents and their parents parents and their parents parents parents and their parents parents parents parents and their parents parents parents parents and .........
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Sep 15, 2022 13:59
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Owling Howl posted:I think you made a choice to kill yourself rather than reduce your standard of living what the gently caress is your problem man? is your solutions to forbid people like slurm to speak? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 15, 2022 14:36
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Reducing personal standard of living while a bunch of assholes yuck it up and get extra treats because of reduced treat demand seems pointless.
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Sep 15, 2022 14:52
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I eat steak every night and burn garbage in my backyard, just a little treat for myself for not having kids.
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Sep 15, 2022 15:38
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Harold Fjord posted:Reducing personal standard of living while a bunch of assholes yuck it up and get extra treats because of reduced treat demand seems pointless. The assholes are not currently abstaining from any treats because of your environmental choices, you imagined that, they're two entirely distinct domains of human behavior
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Sep 15, 2022 15:48
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Harold Fjord posted:Reducing personal standard of living while a bunch of assholes yuck it up and get extra treats because of reduced treat demand seems pointless. But what if I lived my life in accordance with my personal ethics, but another person didn't? Then I was a better person for nothing?
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Sep 15, 2022 16:02
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Failed Imagineer posted:The assholes are not currently abstaining from any treats because of your environmental choices, you imagined that, they're two entirely distinct domains of human behavior You seem to have misread. Personal treat reduction reduces treat demand, reducing cost pressures, allowing more treats for the assholes. We've got to do it collectively.
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Sep 15, 2022 16:03
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GABA ghoul posted:But what if I lived my life in accordance with my personal ethics, but another person didn't? Then I was a better person for nothing? I don't think it makes you a better person, but if you want to think so I certainly can't stop you. Climate change is not an issue of personal ethics.
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Sep 15, 2022 16:04
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Harold Fjord posted:I don't think it makes you a better person, but if you want to think so I certainly can't stop you. But would you say that someone who doesn't punch dolphins at the zoo as a hobby is a better person than someone who does?
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Sep 15, 2022 16:21
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just make whatever your point is instead of stupid questions, please
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Sep 15, 2022 16:26
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Harold Fjord posted:You seem to have misread. I'm taking "assholes" here to be the people doing the majority of the damage. They have no cost pressures. They will do whatever they want to, and the legal and political structures will reshape to accommodate their whims. Doesn't mean we should be mini-assholes tho
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Sep 15, 2022 16:27
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This discourse does clarify the real options, of which I think there are two. -lol, enjoy and end your line, either by not having kids or raising such that will become a part of future sedimentary rock or someone's skull throne. -Amorally seek power and resources that will help your spawn compete in the climate hell world. A world in which the only 'right' or 'wrong' is survival or not. People had it pretty good the last thousand years, but this easy, secure living is a bizarre anomaly in the history of life on earth. Struggling with existential threats is the norm and it was always going to return to that. If a species doesn't have any existential threats, it must, and will create them. Whatever survives the climate crisis will be more powerful and adaptable for it. The alternative was to stagnate in complacency until an unexpected habitat change wiped us out. Ironically, a relatively minor man-made crisis is a good thing by comparison. Of course we like the good life, but it isn't healthy on huge time scales. The universe doesn't care about your Counterstrike k/d but only if you form babby, and if your babby forms babby, and so forth. This is the optimistic outlook. Climate crisis isn't a problem, it is an opportunity. If this sounds unpleasant, remember, there is no obligation to participate in the struggle. Yoloing and dying out is just as moral as anything else, and others will be glad to take your place. Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 17:31
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Preen Dog posted:
*1200AD nomadic tribesman being torn apart by dogs while Ghenghis Khan laughs*: man, life is sweet
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Sep 15, 2022 17:50
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Sweet as in you could reasonably expect your species not to be extinct that century. This is infinitesimally rare in history. A good chuck of species on earth have died out just in our lifetimes. Yes I know we did that, but we are a universal selection pressure ourselves and not a magic thing outside the system. There are equally powerful selection pressures waiting to curbstomp us too, like a meteor or whatevs. Preen Dog fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Sep 15, 2022 |
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Sep 15, 2022 18:10
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As someone who never wanted kids. I have a 3 year old now and it has been the most rewarding experience I have ever been through. He brings me so much joy. Watching this little creature grow up and form a personality. The first time he learned how to connect two giant lego pieces together and learn to build things, was just so wonderful. My dude is probably going to live to see the year 2100, so I am trying to plan things out. My house is near the west coast with its cooling fog, but far enough away that sea level rise won't flood it. If he grows up, gets married, but can't afford to move out, there is room here. I am insulating my house as best I can for future heat waves. There is a small vegetable garden and fruit trees in our backyard. He has an education savings account, and we are half a mile from a local community college. I am below average income for my area, but I am doing what I can for him. I'm glad I was born, and I have a lower quality of life than my parents (who were born into the top 1-5% and hosed their finances up). I'm hoping he feels the same way. My dad was lovely, and I was told that you succeed as a father if you are better than your own father. I would argue having one kid is carbon negative, as two parents will die, only one person lives on.  Thank you for listening to my Ted talk.
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Sep 15, 2022 18:12
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going to have 3 kids for every volcel in here and raise them to be good stewards of the earth
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Sep 15, 2022 18:57
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Fozzy The Bear posted:As someone who never wanted kids. I have a 3 year old now and it has been the most rewarding experience I have ever been through. He brings me so much joy. Watching this little creature grow up and form a personality. The first time he learned how to connect two giant lego pieces together and learn to build things, was just so wonderful. Unironically thanks for your post and sharing your perspective itt.
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Sep 15, 2022 19:15
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Fozzy The Bear posted:
You can argue that, but it would be a pretty unique interpretation of that phrase. You do you though, having one (1) child is far from the most immoral thing a person could do in their life, and we're not gonna pull out of this spiral either way... It would be too painful for me to have kids though. Having dogs is cool because they are briefly on this earth, and even the sadness of that is almost as much as I can bear
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Sep 15, 2022 19:22
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GABA ghoul posted:Unironically thanks for your post and sharing your perspective itt. Just for another viewpoint my one child is also 3 and is just a giant snot machine. Don't have a kid because you think it'll be rewarding because there's no guarantee of that. Do it because we can drop the population by every couple only having one kid, and that one may as well be yours because at the very least you care enough about being a good steward to the planet to stay informed unlike most humans. I'd rather my kid have to live in a diodome with the children of a random sampling of goons than the population at large.
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Sep 15, 2022 19:52
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davebo posted:Just for another viewpoint my one child is also 3 and is just a giant snot machine. Haha! Yeah, it also has its drawbacks. I think my kid produces his own weight in poop every day or two. It isn't rewarding of every moment. 
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Sep 15, 2022 20:02
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Poster: having kids is selfish cause it increases one’s carbon footprint Same poster: me? Oh I’m increasing my carbon footprint on purpose just the fun of it, but that’s different cause it’s like cool man It’s so blindingly stupid and hypocritical I gotta assume/hope this person is trolling.
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Sep 15, 2022 20:37
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This conversation made me curious and I found this interesting article about the environmental impacts of blow: https://news.mongabay.com/2022/04/all-coked-up-the-global-environmental-impacts-of-cocaine/. It additionally addresses some environmental impacts of the global war on drugs, which is obviously connected. Tldr, farming coca results in deforestation (although I think it's probably doubtful that it's worse than other agriculture?) and processing it uses a lot of chemicals (apparently gasoline is a big part of the coke production process but it dones't sound like it actually gets burned?). Anti-drug programs include a bunch of herbicide spraying which can obviously be damaging. The wildest claim: when you piss after consuming coke, not all of it is metabolized, and some gets into water sources, where it apparently is doing damage to some species of eels, shellfish, and sea urchins. e: I don't know anything about the website the article's on, if anyone does and knows about their biases etc. let me know.
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Sep 15, 2022 20:52
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smug n stuff posted:The wildest claim: when you piss after consuming coke, not all of it is metabolized, and some gets into water sources, where it apparently is doing damage to some species of eels, shellfish, and sea urchins.
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Sep 15, 2022 22:21
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iirc there are detectable levels of all sorts of human meds in wastewater outflows, so coke not being fully metabolised by the body isn't a surprise. it would however surprise me if enough people were doing enough coke to make a difference - the pharmaceuticals in wastewater are the ones used widely - hormonal birth controls and antidepressants are the two that i remember
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Sep 16, 2022 01:53
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