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AnimeIsTrash
Jun 30, 2018

ro5s posted:

The map's EU4, the ships might be Empire:Total War?

:tipshat:

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Gunner, Heat, PC! is now out on Steam Early Access: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1705180/Gunner_HEAT_PC/

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

gradenko_2000 posted:

Gunner, Heat, PC! is now out on Steam Early Access: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1705180/Gunner_HEAT_PC/

It looks like a single player War Thunder with modern gear and without the F2P stuff ngl.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Danann posted:

It looks like a single player War Thunder with modern gear and without the F2P stuff ngl.

It looks loving rad but on the other hand

quote:

is a simulation game about modern mounted combat, with special attention to authenticity and fun.

It's impossible for both of those to be true

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
simulated horse, thought about battle and died

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

It’s trying to straddle the line between Steel Beasts Pro and IL-2. War Thunder, by combining pretty good simulation with multiplayer arena gameplay is basically crack for Train Enthusiasts, so I can see why they’d be paying close attention to them.

Mans
Sep 14, 2011

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
War Thunder combat mechanics without dreadful maps or matchmaker seems like heaven

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

Took a closer look at the screenshot of the abrams in GHPC and it looks like a 105mm version. I guess the 120mm version will come along with the Warpact tank getting ERA?

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I'm stuck at my parent's place today and since this computer can't run anything too beefy I decided to spend the afternoon learning The Old World. It's actually quite good!

- they fixed Infinite City Spawl by simply designating certain hexes as the only places you're ever allowed to build cities

- the resource minigame feels really good: it's almost like a turn-based Age of Empires where you need food, stone, wood, and iron to build all the stuff you need, which means you need to balance farms, quarries, lumber mills and iron mines so that you have enough income. Running into a bottleneck where you can't build more spearmen because you don't have enough iron banked makes the "early game" (insofar as The Old World is purely the "early game" of a full Civ timeline) much more involved

- the worker mechanics feel smooth as butter: what irritated me about later Civ games was that they tried way too hard to "gamify" how workers... work, and so you get all of these weird offshoots where you can't build roads at-will, or the Worker builds things instantly but the Worker dies after three improvements, and other poo poo like that. Old World throws you back to just "put the worker in a tile, make him build a thing, he will build it after a few turns" and that's that

- "Specialists" as something you specifically build feels a lot more natural than the way the later Civs do it where you're supposed to do the math in your head over whether you can run a specialist as something that's more rewarding than having the citizen work a tile

- the AI seems sharp as hell. I'm playing on the easiest difficulty and the enemy is still managing to fight me to a standstill. It knows how to concentrate its forces, how to launch counterattacks, how to isolate and focus-fire individual units, how to pull off surrounds... it's the delicious sort of difficult

- the combat in general isn't just mashing armies together and there's actual positioning and flanking and tactics involved

- even the Orders mechanic is mind-blowing in that it deliberately limits your focus such that A. you can never get too overwhelmed with too much to do on any one turn, and B. not being able to do everything actually ends up being a balancing factor in and of itself, where you sometimes have to choose between ordering your workers around, ordering troops in the rear to rush to the front, and ordering around the troops at the front itself

- and I haven't even touched on the Crusader Kings-style characters and development system. An entire underlying minigame where you have to manage relationships within your own court AND that of the other kingdoms that's seamlessly integrated into everything else you're doing

I could keep going, and there's a bunch of topics I haven't touched on (and some that I haven't yet discovered I'm sure), but needless to say this is an extremely refreshing take on the Civilization-like

___

if I had to make one complaint, and this isn't even really an Old World-specific issue, is that I really despise the way this subgenre has moved away from the concept of "Governors". It used to be that a Governor was just an in-game way to refer to the practice of handing over production decisions to the AI.

except now all of these Civ games have turned Governors into special characters that you have to cultivate, in order to grant special bonuses to specific cities that you assign them, such that AI control of cities is no longer a thing you can do. It's unfortunate because even though these Governors were never really something you'd use for optimal play, they were at least capable of taking a load off your mind if your empire got too big, which IS the case in Civ 6 very quickly

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Mans posted:

War Thunder combat mechanics without dreadful maps or matchmaker seems like heaven

Just plug those units into a real game. It’s such a waste, it really is. They could make a spin off single player DCS-like and I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

Yeah the main war thunder mechanic of memorizing the 5 spots and 20 sight lines for every map gets tedious really quick. Most people seem to give up on how boring the ground battles are and just do air instead at higher levels. Just parking an anti-air cannon in spawn and waiting for engine noises is way more fun than the tank fights. There's also pay to win where people buy 6 bushes for every tank which gives you a massive advantage.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Pryor on Fire posted:

Yeah the main war thunder mechanic of memorizing the 5 spots and 20 sight lines for every map gets tedious really quick. Most people seem to give up on how boring the ground battles are and just do air instead at higher levels. Just parking an anti-air cannon in spawn and waiting for engine noises is way more fun than the tank fights. There's also pay to win where people buy 6 bushes for every tank which gives you a massive advantage.

Yeah I stoppes playing War Thunder when it felt like I had to start giving money to actually advance down some tech trees

Megamissen
Jul 19, 2022

any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

gradenko_2000 posted:

- the resource minigame feels really good: it's almost like a turn-based Age of Empires where you need food, stone, wood, and iron to build all the stuff you need, which means you need to balance farms, quarries, lumber mills and iron mines so that you have enough income. Running into a bottleneck where you can't build more spearmen because you don't have enough iron banked makes the "early game" (insofar as The Old World is purely the "early game" of a full Civ timeline) much more involved

- the worker mechanics feel smooth as butter: what irritated me about later Civ games was that they tried way too hard to "gamify" how workers... work, and so you get all of these weird offshoots where you can't build roads at-will, or the Worker builds things instantly but the Worker dies after three improvements, and other poo poo like that. Old World throws you back to just "put the worker in a tile, make him build a thing, he will build it after a few turns" and that's that

- even the Orders mechanic is mind-blowing in that it deliberately limits your focus such that A. you can never get too overwhelmed with too much to do on any one turn, and B. not being able to do everything actually ends up being a balancing factor in and of itself, where you sometimes have to choose between ordering your workers around, ordering troops in the rear to rush to the front, and ordering around the troops at the front itself


dont forget that improvements cost resourses aswell, and workers can be turned into militia units in a emergency
its impressive how they solved the problems with workers in civ games, unlike civ 6 that just made it bad

the one issue with the whole resource and orders system is that you can buy an unlimited amount of resourses
just buying 600 stone to build a wonder instead of having to save up feel a bit.... unwondrous?
other than that it all comes togeather really well

there is somethign wierd about the late game units though, you get legionarie looking swordsmen and cataphracts... but then longbowmen, crossbowmen and pikemen with morion helmets?
maybe they originally planned for a longer timespan and kept some assets they had already made

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

KomradeX posted:

Yeah I stoppes playing War Thunder when it felt like I had to start giving money to actually advance down some tech trees

Or you’d have to play it like a job to get to the cold war units at this point.

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Found out recently that the old but recently updated Napoleonic wargame War and Peace is getting a computer version next year

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2009780/War_and_Peace/

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Frosted Flake posted:

Or you’d have to play it like a job to get to the cold war units at this point.

Yeah gently caress that. I don't love the M-60 enough to play War Thunder like that. Christ let alone that I'm too tired most nights to actually play videogames

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Does anyone anywhere anytime actually love the m60? Besides the fat fucks who got used to a living room sized turret.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

i assume israel and iran do

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Slavvy posted:

Does anyone anywhere anytime actually love the m60? Besides the fat fucks who got used to a living room sized turret.

I think it looks cool

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
the m60 starship can suck my motherfucking dick

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Wasn’t it cheaper to buy, run and easier to maintain than M1 by a wide margin? USMC took theirs to the Gulf, maybe there’s a comparative study.

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Raskolnikov38 posted:

the m60 starship can suck my motherfucking dick

Yeah thats an ugly looking loving thing just hideous

KomradeX
Oct 29, 2011

Frosted Flake posted:

Wasn’t it cheaper to buy, run and easier to maintain than M1 by a wide margin? USMC took theirs to the Gulf, maybe there’s a comparative study.

I remember news articles well into the late 90s early 2000 crying that the Marines were still using M-60A3s and not Abrams

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
who the gently caress called a tank "Starship" anyway. very hosed up.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Wasn’t it cheaper to buy, run and easier to maintain than M1 by a wide margin? USMC took theirs to the Gulf, maybe there’s a comparative study.

I mean a t55 is all of those things compared to a t90 but I know what I'd rather be in.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy

Cuttlefush posted:

who the gently caress called a tank "Starship" anyway. very hosed up.

supposedly it was made with "space age technology" circa 1960, so it was called the starship because it was so very advanced for its time

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
the ussr should have finished the job

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

gradenko_2000 posted:

supposedly it was made with "space age technology" circa 1960, so it was called the starship because it was so very advanced for its time

The space age tech of putting a tiny turret on top of the main turret.

No don't look up when this was first tried or how well it worked, it is space age tech goddammit

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Slavvy posted:

The space age tech of putting a tiny turret on top of the main turret.

No don't look up when this was first tried or how well it worked, it is space age tech goddammit

The Americans had already done that with the M3 Lee

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

Cuttlefush posted:

the ussr should have finished the job

it's a real shame about nukes because they'd have stomped everyone

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

The Americans had already done that with the M3 Lee

The *everyone* had already done that with *every interwar tank*

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Slavvy posted:

The *everyone* had already done that with *every interwar tank*

I just mean it was within their own design tradition. Guys who had trained on the Lee were the senior officers overseeing the design of the M60, this is how these things happen.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

I just mean it was within their own design tradition. Guys who had trained on the Lee were the senior officers overseeing the design of the M60, this is how these things happen.

The lee was a desperate stopgap while they figured out iirc Sherman turret casting, I doubt anyone involved thought it was a great idea worth bringing back. Plus the entirety of WW2 demonstrated that the turret crew has enough on their plate without giving them extra fun jobs. Starship was just cold war MIC grift bullshit.

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

It is possible to build a tank worse than the M3 Lee, but you have to really work at it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=higkubCv4fc

Cuttlefush
Jan 15, 2014

gotta have my purp
the M3 Lee was actually really good in War Thunder for its matchmaking bracket so maybe don't talk so much poo poo about it even though it looks dumb as hell


also those tanks are cute as hell

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

It was a great solution if your requirements are:

Be able to do adequate infantry support and take on pz3 and 4
Not be a garbage British tank
Be available right fucken now

Surprisingly few such options available to the western allies in 1941! It's biggest value was surely teaching American industry how to build a proper tank so they could churn out a billion Shermans. Like most American stuff it was more than good enough for the job in the timeframe available. But if you were starting from scratch with all the cold war grift money in the west being thrown at you, you wouldn't do anything like it.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
The 1995 TV movie Sahara with Jim Belushi taught me that the M3 Lee was cool and good

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

I’ll look for it in my office but the same book on the Western Desert that weirdly drops an accusation that Field Marshall Auchinleck was a pedophile places the M3 firmly in the context of what the British needed for that theatre: automotive reliability and a high explosive shell. It was a really interesting chapter in that it argued having the extra hands to do all of the primary maintenance required in the desert, the benefits of reliability while at the end of Allied logistics as they existed in 1942, automotive components and tracks that were acceptable for the ground conditions in the Egypt-Libya region, more room for larger radios as well as space for extra food and water, and the HE shell were what the British needed and why the M3 was the right tank at the right time. It’s the same reason the British took such a shine to the Stuart as well. Similarly why the Valentine was beloved by the Brits and Soviets.

Considering the vast majority of time an AFV is not in action, and even then mostly not engaging other armour, by a factor of 10:1 or something ridiculous, all of these other things make sense. More relevant to this thread, really none of that comes up in wargames other than a reliability rating and soft attack. You’d need something like DCS where there are malfunctions and breakdowns, and the player spends a good deal of time on road marches or otherwise out of action to really see and feel the difference these qualities make.

War Thunder is the near opposite - it’s all gun power and frontal armour in ridiculous combat situations.

Dreylad
Jun 19, 2001

Orange Devil posted:

I liked the climate change parts of it.

I didn't like that the AI appeared incapable of engaging with a number of mechanics.

The AI has never been up to snuff. Medieval 1 had the best version of the campaign map because the AI was able to play it reasonably well. CA did the same thing Civ 5 and 6 did and designed games they couldn't build AIs for.

I think Old World has cracked the code, but some people really find some of its design decisions grating. It's just nice to play a civ-like game where the AI can be a challenge. It's probably due to the fact that the game is designed for competitive multiplayer and single player flows from that. At least in this case, it works well.

Dreylad has issued a correction as of 15:17 on Sep 16, 2022

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gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Old World's AI is frighteningly good

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