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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Who the gently caress are Russia to bitch about anyone else crossing red lines? Right? "I'm not touching you / Stop hitting yourself" is their entire strategic doctrine
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Sep 16, 2022 12:05
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https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1570619239572344833?t=VrkM-qZimK5zvZZdmbM-JQ&s=19 More ATACMS discussion, mostly independent of Russia’s "red lines".
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Sep 16, 2022 12:47
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We should at least send Steak'ums
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Sep 16, 2022 12:55
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Kesper North posted:We should at least send Steak'ums Hell send em a couple thousand Webers, those boys deserve a good dinner
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Sep 16, 2022 13:00
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Kesper North posted:We should at least send Steak'ums Ateggim strips
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Sep 16, 2022 13:28
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Defendums
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Sep 16, 2022 13:45
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SS-18 Seitan
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Sep 16, 2022 13:54
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Rust Martialis posted:SS-18 Seitan May his passing cleanse the bowels.
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Sep 16, 2022 14:28
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Kesper North posted:We should at least send Steak'ums And cheeze-wiz.
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Sep 16, 2022 15:13
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Kesper North posted:We should at least send Steak'ums An iron cup full of Brunswick stew
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Sep 16, 2022 15:36
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I think the thing that makes me most annoyed is all the morons blaming anything but Russia for any of this. I said at the start it felt like the equivalent of blaming a battered housewife but it's worse than that. A page ago, but hard same. Hannibal Rex posted:https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1570619239572344833?t=VrkM-qZimK5zvZZdmbM-JQ&s=19 Seems it's really just https://twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1570619278277365766?s=20&t=BKfsE1DU8B5EhDyxpLeuiA But makes total sense. Also lol at the guy he called out for posting the picture of M1 Abrams that were sitting in a boneyard (and very quite outdated). Handsome Ralph fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 15:53
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Joke Miriam posted:An iron cup full of Brunswick stew Aww come on. The capture of Izyum deserves at least a Pizza Trophy.
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Sep 16, 2022 15:54
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Kesper North posted:We should at least send Stake'ums Vampire vampire vampire piL fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 15:57
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base m1s would still be pretty good in ukraine, they're better protected than t-62s and t-72as, have a thermal sight, and 105mm is good enough for anything but the latest tanks
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Sep 16, 2022 16:06
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OctaMurk posted:base m1s would still be pretty good in ukraine, they're better protected than t-62s and t-72as, have a thermal sight, and 105mm is good enough for anything but the latest tanks Yeah, but getting them running, and then being able to maintain and supply them is the real issue at hand.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:07
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Handsome Ralph posted:Yeah, but getting them running, and then being able to maintain and supply them is the real issue at hand. Just send tanks that are already operational. I have read many times how Congress has forced the US Army to purchase more Abrams than they want to keep the production line working. Ukraine would be a convenient way to get rid of the excess.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:15
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OctaMurk posted:base m1s would still be pretty good in ukraine, they're better protected than t-62s and t-72as, have a thermal sight, and 105mm is good enough for anything but the latest tanks Does anyone have appreciable stocks of 105mm on-hand?
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Sep 16, 2022 16:17
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Saukkis posted:Just send tanks that are already operational. I have read many times how Congress has forced the US Army to purchase more Abrams than they want to keep the production line working. Ukraine would be a convenient way to get rid of the excess. It’s never this simple. I was a Stryker platoon leader and there was always at least one of my vehicles that had something catastrophically broken on it that needed immediate attention from a mechanic, I can’t imagine Abrams are any different.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:19
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Would they be useful for keeping in the rear to defend recaptured territory?
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Sep 16, 2022 16:22
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I'd imagine it's more a maintenance thing, but Ukraine seems to be doing a good job of keeping equipment we've sent operable. Parts line, training, and even then, they seem more than capable at running their modified soviet designs. They were also just gifted a shitload of free russian equipment. There's really no point sending Abrams unless Ukraine plans to adopt them, train and maintain them when the war ends. I would rather those old Abrams get sent to Ukraine than the Saudis, though. Because we do sell Abrams, just not the new hot poo poo.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:28
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I've gotta imagine that maintaining M777s, HMMWVs, and HIMARS is way simpler than maintaining an Abrams. For starters, the HIMARS and HMMWV have normal diesel engines.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:32
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Look we all laughed about the russians running out of gas please dont give the Ukranians turbine powered tanks so they can share that fate. How many tanks can you run off the fuel required to get a single abrams the same distance?
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Sep 16, 2022 16:35
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:They were also just gifted a shitload of free russian equipment. Understatement
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Sep 16, 2022 16:47
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psydude posted:I've gotta imagine that maintaining M777s, HMMWVs, and HIMARS is way simpler than maintaining an Abrams. For starters, the HIMARS and HMMWV have normal diesel engines. Turbines are not technically difficult, they just look imposing if the work is foreign to you. Literally everything about them is written down in step by step format in a TM somewhere. They're just big heavy bastards. If you can follow directions, you can repair a turbine engine. The HIMARS MTVs are probably 6cyl inline Cat engines that require more fuckery in maintenance, a scan tool, computer. Ukraine can handle that, they handled John Deere. The humvee is a pair of garbage rear end GM V8 diesels (and a turbo variant) that are entirely mechanical and should have died when GM introduced an inline six for their truck line, but they're simple to maintain and have no electrical fuckery. Also TMs. Honestly, the biggest problem with giving Ukraine the Abrams is printing the TMs in Ukrainian.
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Sep 16, 2022 16:50
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It is very  to think that Ukraine would be unable to handle turbine engines.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Sich
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Sep 16, 2022 17:12
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Ah combined arms lol https://twitter.com/raging545/status/1570797043500875776?s=46&t=W2kKPJSoCaQl5hzrGNXEYw
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Sep 16, 2022 17:14
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What if we requisitioned all the military materiel we gave cops and sent it to Ukraine?
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Sep 16, 2022 17:21
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They’ve got plenty of diesel mechanics, if they need tanks give them Leo’s or something. Although from what I understand they’ve recently gotten a few pre-owned T-72’s. :ukrainetractor:
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Sep 16, 2022 17:23
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Xakura posted:It is very Also worth remembering that T-80's come with turbine engines, and captured specimens are typically well liked among Ukrainian forces for high speed and maneuverability compared to the usual T-64/72 fare.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:29
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Once they push Russia out, we can flood them with Abrams. They're swimming in T-derivatives right now, and that's a pond they're comfortable in. The way drone warfare and accurate artillery are evolving, tanks are losing significance. They're still important in overrunning unarmored positions, but when you can drop a mortar in the hatch from a few hundred feet up behind the lines, well.... Putin basically just left enough steel in Ukraine to rebuild that mill the russians destroyed trying to merc the Azov battalion.
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Sep 16, 2022 17:37
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Marshal Prolapse posted:Ah combined arms lol Are the grey/blue uniforms the wagners?
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Sep 16, 2022 17:52
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CainFortea posted:Are the grey/blue uniforms the wagners? Not quite sure myself.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:09
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https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1570798006039085056 Looks like they've crossed the Oskil, finally.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:16
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Icon Of Sin posted:It’s never this simple. I was a Stryker platoon leader and there was always at least one of my vehicles that had something catastrophically broken on it that needed immediate attention from a mechanic, I can’t imagine Abrams are any different. They're not. Also, 105mm ammunition is 30 years old at this point. I don't know the shelf life off hand, but it's yet another consideration. The older M1s also have a bunch of internals which aren't manufactured anymore, and have older parts you probably don't want. For example, the original NBC filter used Chromium-6. psydude posted:I've gotta imagine that maintaining M777s, HMMWVs, and HIMARS is way simpler than maintaining an Abrams. For starters, the HIMARS and HMMWV have normal diesel engines. This is correct. Wheeled vehicles with diesel engines require far less maintenance time, training, and skill than tracked vehicles with turbine engines. Ukraine absolutely has plenty of people capable of learning the M1 platform, but it's one more logistical complexity that probably isn't worth it in the short to medium term (next several months). CRUSTY MINGE posted:The way drone warfare and accurate artillery are evolving, tanks are losing significance. They're still important in overrunning unarmored positions, but when you can drop a mortar in the hatch from a few hundred feet up behind the lines, well.... Replace "tank" with "infantry" and your argument is unchanged. Tanks are still very relevant. Artillery is, too. Drones have become kinetic ally relevant, though even this isn't new.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:17
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Handsome Ralph posted:A page ago, but hard same. I don't think that Putin mobilizing Russia has a significant chance of winning things for Russia, nor are Russia's worst and most urgent problems specifically manpower. That said, between more manpower and the Russian economy being reoriented around war materiel production, turning the heat up quickly enough that Russia formally mobilizes would be a huge disaster. They aren't going to win because of it but it would make things far bloodier and would likely drag things out for years longer. At the moment that's the main concern for any question of 'well how could this situation get way worse.' The current strategy is to destroy as much of the Russian military as possible before Russia realizes that they've passed the tipping point of army needed to win: army they have on hand Also I don't doubt for a second that pretty much everyone involved wants Ukraine to have the capacity to blow up certain extremely important military targets at long range.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:23
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Once they push Russia out, we can flood them with Abrams. They're swimming in T-derivatives right now, and that's a pond they're comfortable in. I don't think tanks are losing significance. I think armies will need to evolve to include the appropriate countermeasures. Russia clearly hasn't.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:29
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Valid points. I might just be thinking that you can do a lot with the resources it would normally take to build and maintain a tank, maybe to the point where they take a less prominent role in the future.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:34
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psydude posted:I don't think tanks are losing significance. I think armies will need to evolve to include the appropriate countermeasures. Russia clearly hasn't. Yeah, claiming the tank has lost significance based off the miserable employment/maintenance of the Russian Army makes even less sense then when the tank "was obsolete" in the 60's once ATGM's started to be fielded. Tanks designs and tactics evolved to meet that challenge and will do so with drones/artillery; the problem for the RA is that it's purpose is to enrich those engaged in corruption and display a few prototypes on May Day - not develop an effective fighting force (or at least one fit for the challenges of 21st Century warfare).
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Sep 16, 2022 18:35
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sniper4625 posted:https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1570798006039085056 https://mobile.twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1570819272309608448
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Sep 16, 2022 18:39
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man
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:Valid points. I might just be thinking that you can do a lot with the resources it would normally take to build and maintain a tank, maybe to the point where they take a less prominent role in the future. The concept of an armored division is probably outdated (just look at US force composition). To your point - my guess is we'll see fewer tanks overall; I don't think there will ever be another 73 Easting. But I think combined arms task forces using tanks will still be a thing.
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Sep 16, 2022 18:42
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