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I don't know why Hypercharge + wildfire still work on timers and not charges, but you don't need JP ninja level latency to fit 5 or whatever GCDs + weaves into it. And fixing that anyways will in no way fix the job's performance.
Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 19:33
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Eden: Ramuh with the ear worm face melter track also oh no he's hot. I set up hypercharge so that I dance my fingers across heat blast, gauss and ricochet in a 3 key line as fast as possible. It's kinda neat to shoot fast but that's about it, it feels pretty clunko. Now Bard, there's an obsessively rhythmic button tapping class I can sink my teeth into. And scratches my DoT and help others itches! blatman posted:i always hated "just play what you enjoy who cares about numbers" because part of what i enjoy is good numbers Agreed, a big part of my class fantasy is having other people think I'm cool and my glam is fabulous instead of the possibility of silent seething and "they're holding us back by 5%."
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Sep 16, 2022 19:43
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It's fine to say play what you like, and then you hit hard content and keep hitting a 1% enrage, and realize if you were nearly as good at dancer as you were mech you would have cleared with room to spare.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:46
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Bloody Emissary posted:Reading this made me think about a thought I had while playing SAM. I looked at Third Eye, shortly after doing a bunch of P5S on RPR, and thought "wow, this ability is significantly lamer than Arcane Crest, what could be done to make it cool and unique? Maybe they could give you and/or the party a minor damage buff when it breaks?" There is no way to make this work with party buffs that are themselves on fixed cooldowns.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:47
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:It's fine to say play what you like, and then you hit hard content and keep hitting a 1% enrage, and realize if you were nearly as good at dancer as you were mech you would have cleared with room to spare. If you are hitting 1% enrage regularly then it ain't just a MCH vs Dancer situation.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:49
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No, but that's a simple change that would fix the problem. It opens the opportunity for the player to blame their job pick. And it's also the same thing a lot of the best players in the world ran into on the door boss. Simply changing a job or two after being stuck on enrage was good enough to clear, even if they ended up playing worse. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 19:50
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maybe the rest of the team should stop dying 
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Sep 16, 2022 19:52
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Okay, I might need to find a way for fast island exp, I'm 6300 EXP away from Rank 9 and I need to be because several of the money makes are locked to rank 9 this week. Go gather 630 items. It'll probably take about 90 minutes or so. Genuinely, that's how I got to rank 10 so quickly. I threw on some podcasts and just gathered. Was worth it because I haven't had to gather any items for my workshop in the last two weeks.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:52
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:No, but that's a simple change that would fix the problem. It opens the opportunity for the player to blame their job pick. 'Learn an entirely new class I don't like' isn't easier or faster than asking the Samurai main to hit his buttons better. MCH needs buffs but of you are wiping constantly at 1% your team needs to fix more than one person.
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Sep 16, 2022 19:54
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ImpAtom posted:'Learn an entirely new class I don't like' isn't easier or faster than asking the Samurai main to hit his buttons better. I don't think poor Samurai performance was the problem in the week one clear issues. And it doesn't change that someone playing Warrior at the time, or Mech currently, would probably provide more of a damage increase to the party by switching than an otherwise similarly skilled individual could increase on their own. And it's not that the blame solely lies on the MCH choice, but the MCH player could look back and say "if I was dancer, and the run was otherwise identical, that would have been a clear," but that excuse shouldn't be possible in the first place. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 19:57
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I miss Stormblood MCH, truly the most perfect MCH.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:09
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I don't think poor Samurai performance was the problem in the week one clear issues. I mean you can say that for any job that isn't the best. MCH need buffs but not to the degree it takes any blame for 1% enrage that isn't player fault. 1% enrage is the fault of a lot of people or a very badly tuned fight.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:16
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mightygerm posted:Interesting, but I think this is a symptom of FF14's class design and balancing methodology in general. In order to attempt to solve balance and comp problems, the roles and utility have become more and more homogenized over the years. More variety in design did would and would always lead you to a place where eventually certain classes and compositions of classes could not possibly clear and encounter or tier because eventually that variety would lead to a situation where your kit just does not have the tools to deal with something. Compare that to the current situation where it was just "Oh our HP totals were a bit off from literally any class comp being able to clear let's just kick that down and slightly buff some classes." I much rather prefer this where, while one Class in a role isn't too different from another with what they're doing, how they're doing it from my input end is different enough that they're all kind unique to play and fun and I can play what I like in my static instead of the WoW issue where "Oh you know that type of Warlock you play and love to play? Literally cannot clear any content this tier. Change classes or force the whole group to waste weeks of prog". Ibblebibble posted:I miss Stormblood MCH, truly the most perfect MCH. Flamethrower was the worst goddamn button in the game in StB lol.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:18
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ImpAtom posted:I mean you can say that for any job that isn't the best. MCH need buffs but not to the degree it takes any blame for 1% enrage that isn't player fault. it has nothing to do with actual fault. It's about the player experience of going, drat, one way that was totally within my power to fix this was to simply not play MCH and play either other rDPS instead, which is a bad experience and should be avoided.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:24
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Party comp absolutely can matter esp early in the tier. My group has a sort of 'low' damage comp (1 melee as well) and with decent DPS we still had to zero death zero damage down to beat 7s enrage, where if we had a more meta comp even with the same gear we would have most likely had more breathing room. Obviously as the weeks go on and more gear is amassed from reclears and tomestones it won't matter as much but it doesn't feel good!
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Sep 16, 2022 20:25
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ImpAtom posted:I mean you can say that for any job that isn't the best. MCH need buffs but not to the degree it takes any blame for 1% enrage that isn't player fault. World first teams were hitting enrage on week 1 P8S door boss with no deaths and no damage downs if they ran even mildly suboptimal comps. It's not always the players' fault, dude.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:28
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the world 1st/week 1 situation was hosed up and everyone acknowledges it including the devs but it's week 3 now, so why are mch still getting shut out
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Sep 16, 2022 20:30
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Vitamean posted:the world 1st/week 1 situation was hosed up and everyone acknowledges it including the devs Because P7S and P8S still have demanding enrages (and mechanics) and the higher DPS and utility from DNC and BRD gives parties more breathing room for mistakes. It's the only logical decision if you want to maximize your chances of clearing.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:32
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Vitamean posted:but it's week 3 now, so why are mch still getting shut out The memes. And I could see if one was in the pf trenches, they'd want to stack every advantage / cut every disadvantage they could. I think at most percentiles mech is statistically the better choice, but pf is gonna pf. Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 20:33
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Can someone please tell me if it's worth slotting DH on warrior now thank you very much
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Sep 16, 2022 20:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Flamethrower was the worst goddamn button in the game in StB lol. It was pretty useless but I only needed to flash it to get 10 heat to go into overheat in my rotation so I didn't have to deal with it too much at least.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:36
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comps do matter, even with very high level play. its also dumb to just trot out the "heh, just play better" routine in response to people who are probably spending 10 hours (or more!) a week doing these dumbass fights when thats dependent on the human x factor. ditching a class thats underperforming isnt. like yeah maybe they could perform better but in the last hour of the third day of the week thats not a free ask whereas when a class is underperforming AND this game is focused on people being able to level and play every class, "hey can you swap to the one that helps us out more?" is gonna happen and is not even necessarily wrong to ask for.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:39
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It doesn't help that this isn't like, a 6.0 SMN to BLM switch, where for an individual player picking higher dps means losing out on utility, picking up a more intense rotation, and learning new ways to approach mechanics. A theoretical MCH to DNC switch would mean gaining utility, having more movement options, and by all accounts (I have yet to level DNC) an easier rotation. and it starts at 60 so you don't even have to level through the early slog. if you're attached to MCH, that could easily feel pretty bad.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:40
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Valentin posted:and by all accounts (I have yet to level DNC) an easier rotation. You'll probably see this split down the middle. I find MCH a lot easier than DNC. Calmer burst window and I don't handle the RNG well. I can handle the MCH timers a lot easier.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:41
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As someone who absolutely had to switch jobs my first raid tier just to beat a fight (though not because we weren't meeting enrage, it was because it was E8S and add phase was terribly designed for BRDs), it really sucks. I'd prefer people just be able to play what they like in high-end content.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:41
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I think gear will eventually equalize out some of the issues we're seeing right now, but it probably will lead to a hive mind discrimination against the lower DPS classes that persists even after gear solves that particular problem. Given that SE is aware of PF locking out certain classes and have admitted as such, I can see a future to light a fire under them to prioritize more balancing by 6.25 if PF hardline starts being even more discriminatory.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:47
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I don't think any one side on this is fully correct. People shouldn't need to switch their jobs, but jobs should be closer. There's clearly some reason why the developers think raw potency buffs aren't needed for Machinist, and I'd be remiss to say that we know better than they do. But someone who really loves it is hard-pressed to accept the status quo of being considered the weakest, even if it may not be theoretically true in every case. At the same time PFs shouldn't assume that they need an 'optimal' comp and exclude people, especially now that gear is getting better all around. It shouldn't be considered a race. I dunno. I haven't touched any fight harder than P2S and I play Bard so I guess I don't have room to talk being in a "cushy" position with regards to job balance.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:48
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Valentin posted:it has nothing to do with actual fault. It's about the player experience of going, drat, one way that was totally within my power to fix this was to simply not play MCH and play either other rDPS instead, which is a bad experience and should be avoided. Yes bit *there are more factors at play*. This is assuming perfect flawless MCH play in an otherwise poor comp which usually is not the case. This is some weird edge theorycraft case where dancer vs MCH is the difference and not a larger comp problem. If you are a flawless MCH who makes 0 mistakes then trying to learn a new class to that level is a much bigger ask than the group as a whole trying to improve. MCH is in a bad spot right now and higher DPS comps will have more breathing room, but that is going to be true inevitably. Bit if your team reaches 1% enrage regularly and you are playing flawless then you are one of the most reliable members of the team, not the one holding it back
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Sep 16, 2022 20:49
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you are never going to get people to not act like that in pf, because pf is designed to allow people to gently caress over others for their own benefit and there is no recourse to this. the reason this doesnt happen in jp pfs is not even because theyre more "team minded", but because they do an honestly upsetting level of social ostracizing behind the scenes, so being a "non contributory player" means you are effectively barred from pf anyways. there is no real solution to this on s-e's end either. so you have to work around it.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:52
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ImpAtom posted:MCH is in a bad spot right now and higher DPS comps will have more breathing room, but that is going to be true inevitably. Bit if your team reaches 1% enrage regularly and you are playing flawless then you are one of the most reliable members of the team, not the one holding it back I don't think anyone's making the assumption it's some orange parse MCH hitting enrage while the rest are hitting green. I think it's a safe comparison to assume relatively equal skill levels when discussing balance.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:54
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S.J. posted:Can someone please tell me if it's worth slotting DH on warrior now thank you very much yes crit is still more important, but dh is better than det/ten. also meld sks over dh, but only to the gcd speed you want obviously.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:57
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:I don't think anyone's making the assumption it's some orange parse MCH hitting enrage while the rest are hitting green. I think it's a safe comparison to assume relatively equal skill levels when discussing balance. I mean in that case you can also blame your mistakes. Eating a DD (or the dreaded death) is something within your power to improve too.
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Sep 16, 2022 20:57
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Just wanna chime in that I’m a good dancer
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Sep 16, 2022 21:02
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Consummate Professional posted:Just wanna chime in that I’m a good dancer I think I'm a good dancer. I'm not. Holy poo poo I ran Aglaia the other day and somehow all sense of how to play this game left my body wtf.
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Sep 16, 2022 21:11
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parasyte posted:yes Thank you!!!
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Sep 16, 2022 21:23
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Honestly I find this discussion a bit irrelevant because how much DPS you output doesn't matter when a good chunk of the playerbase still can't move out of a non telegraphed AOE. Or do Devour*. *It's me, I'm the one who still can't do Devour. Although I think I learned the clockwise variant. GiantRockFromSpace fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 16, 2022 |
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Sep 16, 2022 21:50
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Most devour strategies are hilariously overcomplicating a mechanic that's little more than walk in a straight line, turn left, walk in a straight line.
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Sep 16, 2022 21:52
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Most devour strategies are hilariously overcomplicating a mechanic that's little more than walk in a straight line, turn left, walk in a straight line. In my defense, the problem turned out to be I was going too far from the middle in fear of getting clipped. Turns out a straight line is shorter than a curve!
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Sep 16, 2022 21:55
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Yeah, I don't think the problem is with the people trying to execute it, but every guide or strategy I've seen horribly overcomplicates what to look for and how to respond. What I've seen is all sorts of fancy poo poo by dodging behind his aoes or counting triangles and cutting lines when it can be describes as run here, turn left.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:00
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Ibblebibble posted:It was pretty useless but I only needed to flash it to get 10 heat to go into overheat in my rotation so I didn't have to deal with it too much at least. All i remember is that my MCH in my static for Delta(? The FF6 tier) on trying to use it at the start of the guardian savage fight and she'd step to the side of the boss so everyone else could hit his rear end because there's a 1/8 chance she'd be picked for the cone and die mid flamethrower and "I've accepted that I will die. Please let me go"
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Sep 16, 2022 22:01
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