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Yep, let me grab my calculationsPiell posted:Yeah, but grenades weren't an instant kill in SR4. A frag grenade in SR4 did 12P, +5 AP, and a typical non-tank character might have body 3 and Actioneer Business Suit (ignore FFBA for this, which would make it even higher) for a total soak of 13, or a bit over 4 hits on average. 12-4=8, which is not a kill an on unwounded person. Even if you ignore the flashbang stuff, a 5E grenade exploding next to you does 36P due to chunky salso from the ground. God forbid you ever go inside and add ceilings/walls
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Sep 16, 2022 20:58
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It's just insane. A freaking anti-tank missile does 22P if it hits you in the chest and explodes among your internal organs with the force to knock out a heavily armored vehicle.
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Sep 16, 2022 22:29
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Piell posted:Yep, let me grab my calculations 6e didn't change how much damage grenades did. Every other source of damage was significantly reduced to deal with the new armor system. A grenade does 16p an assault rifle does 7p.
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Sep 17, 2022 04:02
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MuscaDomestica posted:6e didn't change how much damage grenades did. Every other source of damage was significantly reduced to deal with the new armor system. A grenade does 16p an assault rifle does 7p. Lol literally everything about 6e is so bad
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Sep 17, 2022 05:17
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So, out of curiosity, which edition is generally regarded as the best version of Shadowrun's rules? It's an academic question because somehow my plate runneth over with tabletop RPG and campaign board game sessions these days and I don't have time to start or play in a Shadowrun game, but I'm still curious.
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Sep 17, 2022 14:33
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4th is probably the closest we've got to a streamlined, playable without a graphing calculator and a mountain of d6s. It made some major changes from previous editions, and caused a lot of edition warring, but I think it works well in general, even if I prefer 2nd or 3rd. - No more exploding dice - Target Numbers went from variable to fixed, you needed 5s or better, more successes meant better success. - Priorities in chargen went away, replaced with a build point system. - Introduction of wireless matrix Unfortunately, playing Shadowrun is almost always a huge pain in the rear end no matter what edition. Doctor Yiff fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Sep 17, 2022 |
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Sep 17, 2022 14:41
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Zurai posted:So, out of curiosity, which edition is generally regarded as the best version of Shadowrun's rules? It's an academic question because somehow my plate runneth over with tabletop RPG and campaign board game sessions these days and I don't have time to start or play in a Shadowrun game, but I'm still curious.
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Sep 17, 2022 15:09
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Zurai posted:So, out of curiosity, which edition is generally regarded as the best version of Shadowrun's rules? It's an academic question because somehow my plate runneth over with tabletop RPG and campaign board game sessions these days and I don't have time to start or play in a Shadowrun game, but I'm still curious. I disagree with some of the above and go with 3rd. While 4th had a ton of potential to fix things, and 5th and 6th are failed attempts to do that, I feel like SR has been really limiting itself with how it does Dice pools. Shadowrun is a very crunchy system, and I'll stand on my soap box and say Lots of Crunch is Okay, as long as the crunch adds to the robustness of the setting. With 4e+, the only modifier to a roll came from adding and subtracting dice pools, which were pretty much impossible to balance (increase your skill vs get a quality vs foci vs any other dice pool adding mechanic), and replaced the issue people had with the previous edition in that modifiers were numerous and you still had to add up a ton of them. It also added a new problem that was players would often roll their skill dice before discovering/remembering that had modifiers, and be forced to reroll, which slowed played down and could be really demoralizing if the result they had was good. The catalyst game labs versions are the most popular out there by a large margin as they've held the license for forever, and only recently could you purchase books print on demand for the older editions.
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Sep 17, 2022 18:06
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Zurai posted:So, out of curiosity, which edition is generally regarded as the best version of Shadowrun's rules? It's an academic question because somehow my plate runneth over with tabletop RPG and campaign board game sessions these days and I don't have time to start or play in a Shadowrun game, but I'm still curious. 4th edition, specifically the 20th anniversary edition core because it means it actually got (kind of) an errata pass when they revisited it.
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Sep 17, 2022 18:34
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I've heard enough good things about 4E anniversary edition that it would probably be the objectively correct choice, but I go with 3E because I know how to make it work even 'making it work' is like knowing the precise sequence of things you need to hit and or adjust to make your elderly car start on a cold day.
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Sep 17, 2022 19:22
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Zurai posted:So, out of curiosity, which edition is generally regarded as the best version of Shadowrun's rules? It's an academic question because somehow my plate runneth over with tabletop RPG and campaign board game sessions these days and I don't have time to start or play in a Shadowrun game, but I'm still curious. 2E. I will never throw away my bin full of matrix-node index cards! The wireless matrix is pure blasphemy…if you want to get online you plug the computer in behind your ear like God intended!
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Sep 18, 2022 01:10
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Sailor Video Games posted:Unfortunately Shadowrun is just...like this. It still exists in the 5e rules for explosive damage codes, sadly. As far as best edition, it depends on what you want to do. If you want a future where it stayed the 80's and you're playing fringe terrorists and punks trying to do good in a world where everyone's getting hosed over for profit, then 3e (probably cut off before the SOTA books which were testing concepts that came into 4e). If you want 'what if Apple's walled garden philosophy and DRM was on everything' and playing deniable corporate mercenaries, 4e. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Sep 18, 2022 |
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Sep 18, 2022 11:13
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I'm not gonna lie I really liked the Matrix as mini-dungeon that 2e ran with and 3e de-emphasized, but I also know in my heart it's untenable in actual play.
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Sep 18, 2022 21:59
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Liquid Communism posted:playing fringe terrorists and punks trying to do good in a world where everyone's getting hosed over for profit This is barely even a thing in 3e, to be honest. In the 'What Runners Do' section of the 3e core, it starts off defining them as 'people who commit crimes for money' and hooders get like one sentence 8 paragraphs later. People keep acting like 4th and 5th are the ones who ruined this aspect of the setting, but Shadowrun moved focus from that really early on.
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Sep 19, 2022 02:00
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Tsilkani posted:This is barely even a thing in 3e, to be honest. In the 'What Runners Do' section of the 3e core, it starts off defining them as 'people who commit crimes for money' and hooders get like one sentence 8 paragraphs later. People keep acting like 4th and 5th are the ones who ruined this aspect of the setting, but Shadowrun moved focus from that really early on. I guess it was that 3E felt like it wasn't trying to be as edgy about it as 4E did, and being somewhat altruistic and doing jobs where you could look yourself in the mirror the next day felt like a theme.
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Sep 19, 2022 02:52
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I must note my deep amusement. This is the actual published cover of Catalyst's newest SR product: The lady in red at the front is the OC of Rem Alternis, who is working with them on the kickstarter for the SR CCG reboot that's going to kickstarter this week, and who are behind the 'Chicago Shadows' attempted live-action web series that never got beyond a trailer. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Sep 19, 2022 |
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Sep 19, 2022 03:18
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Liquid Communism posted:The lady in red at the front is the OC of Rem Alternis, who is working with them on the kickstarter for the SR CCG reboot that's going to kickstarter this week, and who are behind the 'Chicago Shadows' attempted live-action web series that never got beyond a trailer. I feel bad because I know they don't have a big budget or anything but I laughed very hard at the ork. Also a SR CCG reboot? From CGL? That doesn't inspire a great deal of confidence.
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Sep 19, 2022 03:30
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3E has more of the old shadowrun flavour before everything went wireless and bio. 4E has a smoother system IMO. Those would be my two choices.
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Sep 19, 2022 03:48
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The lady in red is the face version of the classic Rob Liefield Captain America chest.
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Sep 19, 2022 04:03
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Dawgstar posted:I guess it was that 3E felt like it wasn't trying to be as edgy about it as 4E did, and being somewhat altruistic and doing jobs where you could look yourself in the mirror the next day felt like a theme. 4e and 3e talk about running literally using the exact same paragraphs. I honestly think what happened is the change over to wireless in 4e made it a dumping ground for a lot of fan frustrations, even stuff that wasn't actually accurate. Hell, 4e's opening fic is actually about a group of runners finding out the run went sideways because they were set up by a Humanis rear end in a top hat and tracking him down and getting justice, which is more hooder than the 3e fic.
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Sep 19, 2022 05:04
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I ended up with a number of SR 6 books from a Bundle of Holding. There's a book of cards from the "Gun Rack" weapon sourcebook, this is one of them. They couldn't even manage weapon categories right on single cards. The Valiant LMG is listed as an assault cannon and the Yamaha Raiden is now a sniper rifle (with full auto fire and a built-in grenade launcher). Just appalling, a quality control failure on the most basic level. 
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Sep 19, 2022 05:58
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Is that a bullpup assault cannon with a SMG-sized adjustable stock, no foregrip, and a water cooling jacket? I have no idea how you're actually supposed to hold that thing, if you tried to shoulder it the magazine's going to be right where your wrist needs to be, and you'd best have it lying on something because there's no safe place to put your off hand to support it. Did they hire someone's 12 year old nephew to draw them a bunch of Cool Guns?
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Sep 19, 2022 08:33
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Same as it ever was, the illustration below is from the 1989 Street Samurai Catalog. 
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Sep 19, 2022 08:46
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Wheeljack posted:Same as it ever was, the illustration below is from the 1989 Street Samurai Catalog. No flared base. Very unsafe.
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Sep 19, 2022 09:50
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Wheeljack posted:Same as it ever was, the illustration below is from the 1989 Street Samurai Catalog. Note the knurling on the forend, and the hip/arm brace instead of a shoulder stock. At least they tried. Here's that model in action:  Good old Ral Partha SR minis. But yeah, the mag location still sucks there too.
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Sep 19, 2022 10:13
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Tsilkani posted:4e and 3e talk about running literally using the exact same paragraphs. I honestly think what happened is the change over to wireless in 4e made it a dumping ground for a lot of fan frustrations, even stuff that wasn't actually accurate. 4E had a module that was based primarily on running drugs and whatever War! was. People complaining about 4E's tone was definitely a thing.
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Sep 19, 2022 14:03
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Liquid Communism posted:I must note my deep amusement. This is the actual published cover of Catalyst's newest SR product: (or might in fact be too good art for that) Wheeljack posted:I ended up with a number of SR 6 books from a Bundle of Holding. There's a book of cards from the "Gun Rack" weapon sourcebook, this is one of them. To be fair most if not all SR weapon drawings make no sense and are mostly just random parts stuck together with no rhyme or reason. It might make for some funny videos if you have a gunsmith youtube channel or something.
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Sep 19, 2022 14:21
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I finally got a look at the MP75 from one of the German SR books a while back and was incredibly disappointed how it looked. So I just ended up describing it as a slightly fancier MP7 for the SR game I had a character use it in.
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Sep 19, 2022 14:44
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Poil posted:A machine gun with only semi-automatic fire? I'm certainly no weapons expert but surely that's not right?
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Sep 20, 2022 17:01
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I like 5th edition but I played many many years ago on 2nd then got busy with life for a long time and completely stopped playing. Coming back, the improvements jumping from 2nd to 5th were significant so here I am, playing the last edition to be released, until CGL dies the miserable death it deserves and someone releases a 6th edition.
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Sep 20, 2022 17:14
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It's so bad. Pegasus has a team of people who love shadowrun to death, just give it to them already.
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Sep 20, 2022 17:37
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But Hardy needs money to renovate his summerhouse so we can't pass it someone competent. 
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Sep 20, 2022 17:39
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wiegieman posted:It's so bad. Pegasus has a team of people who love shadowrun to death, just give it to them already. Didn't somebody errata Anarchy basically solo and CGL still wouldn't acknowledge it?
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Sep 20, 2022 21:26
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Dawgstar posted:Didn't somebody errata Anarchy basically solo and CGL still wouldn't acknowledge it? Anarchy was errataed by unpaid volunteers last time I gave a poo poo about it
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Sep 20, 2022 22:59
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Anarchy could have been much better than it was. They made some really head scratchy design decisions, like how everything has an opposition roll, which means you can never really tell what your odds of success are before you try because you can never know your opposition. This includes inanimate objects or things like jumping.
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Sep 20, 2022 23:21
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Liquid Communism posted:I must note my deep amusement. This is the actual published cover of Catalyst's newest SR product: Lol holy loving poo poo that is so bad.
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Sep 21, 2022 07:19
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The fact that there is like 20+ SR6 books was kinda baffling to me when I first discovered it.
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Sep 21, 2022 11:22
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Cooked Auto posted:The fact that there is like 20+ SR6 books was kinda baffling to me when I first discovered it. Yeah. I figured no freelancer would touch them after... well.
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Sep 21, 2022 22:15
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In other news, apparently CGL did a kickstarter for the Shadowrun: Edge Zone card game. It got funded within an hour. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cgl/shadowrun-edge-zone
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Sep 21, 2022 23:20
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I've been reading through the rules for SR6 and while they don't seem that complex they're still kinda out there. Opposed rolls, damage soaking, Edge it's all a bit much compared with the d20 approach of roll and get hit
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Sep 22, 2022 10:28
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