(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Sep 21, 2022 12:56
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I absolutely refuse to laugh at the viewers who got scammed because of the sheer sobstories (The mob is after me! My bank account is frozen! Here is this official document about my problems copypasted to everyone who can lend me money) that guy spun to drag money out of them. Especially the one who needed it for chemotherapy. edit: I will however laugh at Twitch itself for continuously making it easier for any other platform to destroy them. DeafNote fucked around with this message at 12:59 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 12:56
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repiv posted:speaking of twitch changes, they've decided streamers get less money now 
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Sep 21, 2022 13:00
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Lol that sucks. But it only applies to people who make more than a hundred grand a year from Twitch, and is in response to secret deals they had with already high-earning streamers that let them earn even higher? Or did I read that wrong? Edit: wowzers close one on that typo!!! DaysBefore fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 13:11
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e: misread
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Sep 21, 2022 13:17
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Honestly surprised it's taken this long really. Soundtrack claims are a major headache of youtubes copyright system, it doesn't help that it flags up unrelated audio and there's no option in the dispute field for "this claim is mistaken, the claim is for an acid house club remix released in Belize in 2017, and the clip its flagged up is some birds tweeting or a soundbite from a public domain film released in Germany in 1925". Its probably too late for my main channel thanks to some vindictive documentary produces, but if my archive channel ever makes monetisation this might make it worth trying for.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:28
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Re: gambling, maybe there are some kids watching slots streams and getting it normalized in their brain or getting a contact high from watching a win happen, but I don't know. That seems more like a thing nominal adults do, and probably a lot who already know they should be avoiding IRL gambling and justify the secondhand betting as different somehow when it's really still the same problem. If we're going to go "think of the children!!!" about gambling, I think their brains are getting warped more by Genshin Impact and other gacha games with huge streaming communities, the whole marketplace around roblox, or hell even those dumbass surprise egg type things people will open up on streams or youtube videos. And this is without considering other video games that get streamed that have slots, dice games, poker, etc. as regular in-game side activities without IRL money involved. Predatory gambling websites shouldn't be allowed to exist or advertise on Twitch. Predatory games shouldn't either, but those aren't going away. It does feel a bit like the major twitch streamers were primarily worked into a froth about this because their friends were part of the people scammed. The twitch streamers who did the scamming and... all the other awful poo poo should be banned, too. Those can all suck in their own way separately from what being exposed to gambling at a young age does to developing brains. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 14:41 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 14:37
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yea I'm not going to pretend a stream where a dude begs for money to blow on gambling is a great thing, like, spiritually on the whole, but it's pretty weird to frame it as "SIRS THERE ARE CHILDREN WATCHING THIS" when that can be used to shut a lot of poo poo down way easier for way less. Like, if you really think that you should be wanting Twitch to ban gatcha games, because boy do 'streamer luck' pull streams sure draw numbers, or roblox streams because their company literally is rooted in exploiting actual child labor. It just feels very Tipper Gore to think that the big problem with gambling streams is kids may watch them and think gambling is fun. Gambling is fun, the problem is companies have exploited that so badly that now near every game involves gambling in some regards, so banning loving...what...poker streams seems pretty lame when Genshin and poo poo still can do massive numbers.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:43
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it's such a weird argument because the popularity of gambling streams started with tweens and teens who got heavy into gambling csgo skins and watching their favorite streamer play slots with them. it's not really a question of "if" children are watching and following along, it literally started there.
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Sep 21, 2022 14:47
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How do you play slots with the CS:GO skins anyway? Digital gambling first to win a rare one, then cashing that out and taking the proceeds to an e-casino? Or is there some sus online casino that lets you put up steam items as collateral?
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Sep 21, 2022 15:01
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Nuns with Guns posted:How do you play slots with the CS:GO skins anyway? Digital gambling first to win a rare one, then cashing that out and taking the proceeds to an e-casino? Or is there some sus online casino that lets you put up steam items as collateral? for years it was the latter, with automated casino bots trading back and forth. theoretically was skin based with no real money, but as everyone knows there are real money markets you can buy and sell skins on so they were basically poker chips. later when Valve cracked down, the same sites became slot machines with pictures of the guns with no skins attached just money and the csgo streamers, with the same teenaged fanbase from before, played those instead.
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Sep 21, 2022 15:10
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It was a third party website wasn't it? And the main dudes doing it on streams were also part-owners playing with rigged odds that gave them more Epic Purple knife skins or whatever?
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Sep 21, 2022 15:11
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DaysBefore posted:It was a third party website wasn't it? And the main dudes doing it on streams were also part-owners playing with rigged odds that gave them more Epic Purple knife skins or whatever? exactly, yeah https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/14/12188372/how-one-professional-csgo-player-profited-from-gambling-and-how-it-all-went-terribly-wrong e. and this wasn't the only site, wasn't the only streamer. there were seemingly hundreds of these popping up. you'd watch your favorite player and he'd take pauses between games to spin a slot machine. former pro kioshima is entirely pivoted to gambling now, for this reason. Famethrowa fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 15:13
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I read the preceding few posts on cs go skins and I'm genuinely so befuddled I don't mean this to poke fun at this thread, but is there a video or two about this whole weird poo poo
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Sep 21, 2022 15:14
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Nuns with Guns posted:Or is there some sus online casino that lets you put up steam items as collateral? a while back it came out that the biggest one of these was owned by the biggest streamer who was pumping the site, who fairly consistently won huge payouts. gambling streams have always been bad! gambling itself (unless its like, the scale of "friendly poker game with friends") is also very bad! this is largely due to the fact that they've spent the last hundred years working out the ways to hook people vulnerable to ruining their lives via slots! I just started listening to the game studies study buddies episode about "addiction by design" and it's pretty good. it turns out that gambling addicts (at least the "sit at a slot machine for 17 hours straight" kind) aren't looking to get rich quick, they're looking for a state of mind that I'd describe as dissociation, where all concept of themselves or the world around them stops existing to their mind! sure sounds like something we shouldn't introduce adults to, let alone children!
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Sep 21, 2022 15:17
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The Saddest Rhino posted:I read the preceding few posts on cs go skins and I'm genuinely so befuddled it's a weirdly unexplored niches and I mostly know this from being into esports and following the subreddit. this is the best I got off hand (they interview the scammer who stole from kids lmao) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA5UYysiP_U
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Sep 21, 2022 15:19
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The difference between gambling as a "vice", versus doing drugs or having hot sex, is that gambling is completely controlled by hyper-optimized corporate ghouls who have totally maximized and capitalized the entire process using dark patterns and operant conditioning. Putting a five note on the Street Fighter machine is completely different from going to a casino or rolling Gacha. Money matches and kitchen table poker are between human beings with social relationships. Gambling with a casino or game developer or CSGO cryptocoin skin slots is a skinner box designed to exchange as much of your money as possible for as little dopamine as they can get away with. It's predatory and loathsome and everyone involved in administrating or promoting these systems should be dragged out into the street and beaten about the head and shoulders, or at the very least deplatformed.
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Sep 21, 2022 15:42
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Famethrowa posted:it's a weirdly unexplored niches and I mostly know this from being into esports and following the subreddit. this is the best I got off hand (they interview the scammer who stole from kids lmao) thanks!!
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Sep 21, 2022 15:46
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fun hater posted:well, full confession: i come from a family of multi-generational alcoholics on both sides who gave me the genetic gift of pre-loaded substance abuse. the psychology and mechanics of why people turn toward specifically drug and alcohol addiction are something ive done a lot of looking into just to try to figure out whats wrong with me/them. however: i have an extremely difficult time conceptualizing the motivations behind gambling addiction that are not mired first and foremost in a personal desire to get rich quick in spite of all common sense and wisdom. i can understand the mechanics of why pulling the arm on the slot feels good to your brain. but the underlying initial psychological driving force (as i understand it) is rarely, if ever, financial desperation. the people who actually want to get rich quick tend not to be the gambling addicts. those are like, the tourists who don't know how to budget a casino visit and lose all their money in 30 minutes. the gambling addicts are the ones who put all their money into a slot machine and don't care whether or not they win or lose because the slot machine is providing a distraction from their lives, or otherwise provides them with a feeling that they become dependent on. one of the most striking things i remember reading interviews from gambling addicts is that many of them say they're outright annoyed when they win a jackpot- because when this happens, a guy from the casino has you sign a bunch of paperwork, and they don't want to do that- they want to keep playing slots. that, and the ones who say they're outright relieved when they run out of money because they can't pull themselves away from the machines. it's a self-destructive dependency but a lot of vices fundamentally are, and like people addicted to smoking and alcohol, many are fully aware that what they're doing is self-destructive but keep doing it because that's what addiction is. Feels Villeneuve fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 16:21
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hell, if I'm stressed about money, sometimes I'll get wrecked and play factorio for nine straight hours just so I don't have to think about it. that dissociative state is really powerful and comforting when everything else sucks, gambling or no
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Sep 21, 2022 16:39
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Feels Villeneuve posted:the people who actually want to get rich quick tend not to be the gambling addicts. those are like, the tourists who don't know how to budget a casino visit and lose all their money in 30 minutes. the gambling addicts are the ones who put all their money into a slot machine and don't care whether or not they win or lose because the slot machine is providing a distraction from their lives, or otherwise provides them with a feeling that they become dependent on. you said it a lot better than i could put it, being too close to the subject matter myself
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Sep 21, 2022 16:43
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The Saddest Rhino posted:I read the preceding few posts on cs go skins and I'm genuinely so befuddled No, you're right to be. CS GO gambling, like the TF2 Hat Economy or Roblox' child labor, is one of the things that if you had no prior contact with you go "wait no, what's happening? Also, what's happening?" The idea that somehow ugly skins for the knife in a F2P game aren't just something be traded, but something where people are basically being part of an online casino to get because they've somehow become worth an actual lot of money, isn't an easy thing to just understand.
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Sep 21, 2022 16:43
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fun hater posted:i grew up near reno actually :p its where you go when you cant afford vegas I gave you another shot because the initial threadban was unfair. This was a mistake. You make the thread actively worse by posting here. Stop.
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Sep 21, 2022 22:23
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Good news: Nyx Fears finally got her stuff solved with Youtube and they got her one Jodoworsky's Holy Mountain vid! Better news: It doesn't have the power drill robot bunny music on the background, so its even better. Also, 20 minute video on the composer of the basement theme from Resident Evil Dual Shock edition. You know the one. Confession! That theme does indeed spook me and I'm aware of the original version. Kunster fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Sep 21, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 23:03
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imo it is good that twitch banned gambling streams
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Sep 21, 2022 23:55
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Feels Villeneuve posted:the people who actually want to get rich quick tend not to be the gambling addicts. those are like, the tourists who don't know how to budget a casino visit and lose all their money in 30 minutes. the gambling addicts are the ones who put all their money into a slot machine and don't care whether or not they win or lose because the slot machine is providing a distraction from their lives, or otherwise provides them with a feeling that they become dependent on. i remember a denis johnson novel where a gambling addict buys scratch cards, wins $100 off one, and then uses it to buy more scratch cards until he's out of money again like you said, the reward itself doesn't have much to do with the addiction, it's the act of pursuing the reward that lights up that part of the brain Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 21, 2022 23:57
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yeah just spend five minutes working at a gas station. it's been a decade but I still remember my regulars spending all their work money before getting home
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Sep 22, 2022 00:41
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I remember distinctly one time I was in a liquor store for a little over an hour during a local brewery event, and watching one guy come in and drop a couple hundo on scratchoffs. He then went over to a table in the corner of the store, silently did them all, then came back up to cash out the winners and immediately yolo'd the winnings back into more scratchoffs. He kept this up for 30 minutes or so until finally he ran out of winners, and then just got up and left. No visible sadness when he left empty handed or happiness whenever he won something, just a complete vacant zombie compelled to throw away hundreds of dollars for a 30 minute endorphin rush. Once he left I made a comment to the owner and he goes "oh yeah he's here every Friday and does the exact same thing, really hope he's not spending his whole paycheck." Gambling addiction is loving scary yo.
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Sep 22, 2022 01:10
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There's like... three loosely-connected issues here that are getting balled up and thrown around. The ignition point here was a guy with a terminal gambling addiction he can't pull himself out of went around and begged other streamers, his own fans, etc. to give him money under the impression he was using it to pay for necessities and instead it all vanished into a gray-market online casino, right? Because that's an exploitative scam from top to bottom for an addict to get his fix. He's saying he'll repay everyone but we all know that's the kind of bad lie an addict in a really toxic mindset throws around because they'll say anything to satisfy an itch. There's the associated fallout from people who were betrayed by him, cruel unrelated trauma being unearthed as retaliation, and associated internet drama that moved Twitch to banning certain gambling streams/websites. I don't fault his fans or other streamers for stepping up when they thought they were providing aid, either, but the guy obviously needs help and shouldn't be allowed to stream or anything for numerous reasons. Then there's the danger gambling games pose to young minds. In how it normalizes gambling, establishes gambling habits, gets the mind primed to chase those dopamine rushes, etc. I'm sure that all does do a lot to the younger userbase, but Twitch isn't making some unilateral move to protect them. They're cracking down on one vein of particularly abusive and scammy gambling streamers who were exploiting loopholes in the system. But now the discussion here about the waaaaay broader topic of the nature of gambling addictions. And I don't know... there's probably different types. Doing scratch offs or slots or loot boxes sounds like a much more mind-numbing rush than trying to beat the house at blackjack or craps. And like any addiction it has a lot of root causes and people can be more or less vulnerable at different times in their lives because they're ultimately all destructive coping mechanisms for wider issues.
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Sep 22, 2022 01:40
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that's a good post. there are definitely different types; i "gamble" on current events but those markets are where you truly can get a leg up on others. i'll never spin a roulette wheel though, that kinda stuff scares me
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Sep 22, 2022 01:50
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It's why I hate loot boxes with a passion. A friend of mine gets really worked up in Overwatch when we played mystery heroes because if you win 3 games you get a loot box and every little thing that went wrong got an extremely vitriolic remark from them that it became really miserable to play. Then all that dumb poo poo results in a bunch of garbage that you don't care about. It's not s severe as people spending tons of cash on that trash looking for that hit or "just one more and maybe I'll get that skin" mentality but it still ruins a perfectly fun time with friends. I think battle passes are also horseshit but no where as bad as loot boxes.
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Sep 22, 2022 03:30
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Jimbot posted:It's why I hate loot boxes with a passion. A friend of mine gets really worked up in Overwatch when we played mystery heroes because if you win 3 games you get a loot box and every little thing that went wrong got an extremely vitriolic remark from them that it became really miserable to play. Then all that dumb poo poo results in a bunch of garbage that you don't care about. It's not s severe as people spending tons of cash on that trash looking for that hit or "just one more and maybe I'll get that skin" mentality but it still ruins a perfectly fun time with friends. I'm pretty sure Sterling's done a video on why 'it's no problems, it's just cosmetics' is a pretty BS argument for the companies to hide behind.
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Sep 22, 2022 03:57
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In keeping with the topic here's a really good video about horse racing, pachinko, slot machines, and Pokemon cards. How they work, how they get you addicted, and some of the history behind them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQIHqkudgNY
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Sep 22, 2022 04:59
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Gambling is for stupid idiots. Now excuse me while I spend another $20 to try and pull for Himiko.
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Sep 22, 2022 05:43
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munecat also did a vid about this stuff from about a year ago that's pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGfW5U7d8sc
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Sep 22, 2022 05:54
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https://twitter.com/Twitch/status/1572525437196148738 lol in more twitch news apparently they tried to news cycle dump an announcement in the middle of the night that starting next June they're getting rid of all their 70/30 revenue split contracts for partners and everybody will be forced onto the 50/50 split. My understanding is right now only the absolute most tippy top streamers can land the 70/30 deal, but still lol. Youtube is 70/30 for everybody no matter how big you are and the ads are - at least for now - way less intrusive for viewers. If they could just improve the chat to be even half as good as Twitch's is I don't think there'd be a single reason for anybody to stick with Twitch. e. Twitch's official response to people getting moved from 70/30 to 50/50 is "yeah well we increased your cut of ad revenue to 55% so just run more ads bro." 
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Sep 22, 2022 06:13
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Oh, for a second I thought the twitch streamers got the 30% part of the 30/70 split. Yeah this is a bad deal.
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Sep 22, 2022 07:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEt27Jgp8gs
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Sep 22, 2022 08:25
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Everyone in this thread please read Natasha Dow Schüll’s Addiction By Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas or at least listen to this podcast talking about it http://rangedtouch.com/2022/01/31/43-schull-addiction-by-design/ Gambling addiction for the vast majority of people is not about winning or losing, it's about completely shuttering the outside world by hyperfocusing on one activity.
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Sep 22, 2022 09:31
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| # ? May 29, 2024 04:19 |
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fez_machine posted:Everyone in this thread please read Natasha Dow Schüll’s Addiction By Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas or at least listen to this podcast talking about it That makes it sound pretty much like gaming addiction.
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Sep 22, 2022 10:23
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