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The few times I've seen rescue used well is when 1) the target realized their mistake too late to clear the mechanic by running and it's obvious they won't clear the bad zone in time and 2) the healer noticed the target was not going to make it and acted on it. It's basically an "oh poo poo they're not gonna make it" tool.
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Sep 22, 2022 19:42
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SettingSun posted:That reminds me my co healer and I used Rescue creatively in E4S, rescuing each other from spread positions because it was faster than walking. I remember doing a planned rescue on the tank for Hello World (O12S), but I'm not sure why. When did they add multiple stacks for the tank gapclosers?
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Sep 22, 2022 19:44
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Rap Game Goku posted:I think all the 24 man bosses have too much xp, except LotA and Circus. At the time those were relevant I'd have probably included them too. maybe lota and ct are too short
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Sep 22, 2022 19:48
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Tamba posted:I remember doing a planned rescue on the tank for Hello World (O12S), but I'm not sure why. When did they add multiple stacks for the tank gapclosers? https://streamable.com/oxyx2 The tank with the far defam has to travel a pretty long distance. WAR didn't have charges on Onslaught at the time, but it was a net negative to spend beast gauge on Onslaught. DRK had Plunge but wanted to use it on CD and you're correctly remembering there were no charges yet. PLD had no gap closer and had to walk/sprint the distance.
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Sep 22, 2022 19:54
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Hyper Inferno posted:Rescue is one of the types of skills that in theory is really good and is exactly what people want when they're asking for "utility" but in practice is never properly used because the situational awareness necessary to use it (for both the caster and the rescuee) is too high for the playerbase to actually benefit on top of the lag involved. I'm sure there's been many times where you've tried to Rescue someone only for them to just walk back into the exact spot they came from and get pasted. The problem with rescue is not that players lack situational awareness, it's that the servers can't process snap reactions reliably. You can do some wild stuff with defensives in WoW that you'd think would be just as practical in FFXIV from reading the tooltips on Rescue or Cover - but in practice you can't. By the time you see something going wrong it's almost certainly too late for your action to be processed by the server in time. Your actions register slower in XIV and people on your screen are displayed way behind their actual status and position. Those combine to cripple pre-emptive play compared to WoW. I can't count the number of times I saved pulls with pre-emptive Spirit Link Totems alone, on reaction to seeing someone loving up in real time, over the course of two mythic raid tiers in Legion. I could probably count on a single hand the number of pulls I saved with Cover in two savage tiers of Eden, and most of those were sheer guesses based on psychology in the moment rather than actually seeing anything gone wrong. The game just won't tell you something is going wrong until it's too late. There's a reason why the game has leaned heavily into the preplanned dance style of fight. e: And the lack of loving mousovers and smartcasting doesn't help one bit in situations where every single bit of reaction speed matters. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 19:55
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i like rescuing my friends
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Sep 22, 2022 19:57
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Just want to re-propose a Tank anti-Rescue. If there's someone standing in your tankbuster, you should be able to target them and kick them away from you.
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Sep 22, 2022 20:03
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MillennialVulcan posted:Just want to re-propose a Tank anti-Rescue. If there's someone standing in your tankbuster, you should be able to target them and kick them away from you. Right into the deathwall.
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Sep 22, 2022 20:04
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MillennialVulcan posted:Just want to re-propose a Tank anti-Rescue. If there's someone standing in your tankbuster, you should be able to target them and kick them away from you. https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Malediction_of_Water https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNYDu-dR_7E
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Sep 22, 2022 20:06
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MillennialVulcan posted:Just want to re-propose a Tank anti-Rescue. If there's someone standing in your tankbuster, you should be able to target them and kick them away from you. I don't understand the use case here. Why would I purposely give up kills?
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Sep 22, 2022 20:06
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Corbeau posted:The problem with rescue is not that players lack situational awareness, it's that the servers can't process snap reactions reliably. You can do some wild stuff with defensives in WoW that you'd think would be just as practical in FFXIV from reading the tooltips on Rescue or Cover - but in practice you can't. By the time you see something going wrong it's almost certainly too late for your action to be processed by the server in time. Your actions register slower in XIV and people on your screen are displayed way behind their actual status and position. Those combine to cripple pre-emptive play compared to WoW. I'm not sure what you mean here. Something going wrong in a way rescue can solve is usually evident well in advance. Short of someone backflipping off an edge it is easy to save people from dumb. You just can't do it *that* often
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Sep 22, 2022 20:46
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Black mages keep getting mad at me whenever I rescue them from the fancy looking AoEs that only target them for some reason.
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Sep 22, 2022 20:52
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Electric Phantasm posted:Black mages keep getting mad at me whenever I rescue them from the fancy looking AoEs that only target them for some reason. Because either 1. They were going to AM to you as soon as that fire 4 went off 2. Have accepted the glorious death by Fire 4
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Sep 22, 2022 20:59
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The best usage of Rescue is when it's just too late and your friend's corpse skids across the arena, stopping at your feet.
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Sep 22, 2022 20:59
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Because either You missed the joke.
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Sep 22, 2022 21:03
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:You missed the joke. Oh goddamn it 
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Sep 22, 2022 21:06
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MillennialVulcan posted:Just want to re-propose a Tank anti-Rescue. If there's someone standing in your tankbuster, you should be able to target them and kick them away from you. A couple times I've seen a healer try to rescue someone from a tankbuster and accidentally (or "accidentally") pull the tank into the crowd
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Sep 22, 2022 21:08
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not sure what you mean here. Something going wrong in a way rescue can solve is usually evident well in advance. That's exactly what I mean: those well-in-advance situations are the only situations in which stuff like rescue works... in this game. Now think of a fight where you're moving as a group, dropping AoEs behind everyone. P2S, let's say. If someone starts late, they get obliterated by the AoEs being baited. My experience is that by the time you visually see someone behind the group, it's too late for anything you do to affect them before the server marks them as dead. I don't think rescue would even work anyway, due to how janky the positional snapshotting is if the caster is in motion. In an equivalent mechanic in Argus, which is the fight most burned into my brain by ~500 pulls of prog, I could reliably save someone who fell behind based on seeing them move a split-second behind the group. The fight design itself certainly wasn't slower than the P2S fight - WoW tends to be quite frenetic by comparison - but the servers were far more responsive with a much higher tickrate and probably better latency to the players to boot.
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Sep 22, 2022 21:17
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I only really use Rescue in 24 mans on people who are obviously first time in.
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Sep 22, 2022 21:33
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I find the jerkiness of being pulled by a rescue kind of insulting, even if the healer was just trying to be helpful. Like, I feel embarrassed whenever I get rescued.
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Sep 22, 2022 21:45
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Being rescued is embarrassing but it's less embarrassing then getting Raised. Now, of everyone in an Alliance Raid had an obnoxious Rescue macro...
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Sep 22, 2022 21:47
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HackensackBackpack posted:I find the jerkiness of being pulled by a rescue kind of insulting, even if the healer was just trying to be helpful. Like, I feel embarrassed whenever I get rescued. Same, and it's because it is nearly impossible to shake the thought that you did something wrong, thus the healer felt you needed to be saved from yourself.
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Sep 22, 2022 21:48
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Tugging the leash on your toddler harness. 
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Sep 22, 2022 21:50
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When I can remember to get them off in time, I mostly only get to Rescue players who are standing on the wrong side during a cast bar - like, say, a Reaper with two vuln stacks wailing away on a boss's left when the cast bar is saying "BOSS IS ABOUT TO CAST SOMETHING THAT HITS THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ARENA" Either that or pulling the tank to the door at the end of a dungeon boss.
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Sep 22, 2022 21:50
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Rescue's also tougher to use than it should be because it has a longer animation than the skill really should have, given its "oh poo poo" case usage. It makes that little sparkly noise and then your character animates yoinking and THEN Rescue's effect happens; that delay's not entirely due to slow communication with the server. I dunno, there's probably someone out there that has timed the animation. Some other actions that lose/lost function for form: Hallowed Ground; the buff comes up late into the animation and the buff is the thing that makes you invulnerable, not the action Benediction; slowest instant heal in the game Old Tornado Kick; an oGCD-Greased Lightning-dumping version. It was meant to be a way to drop your stacks for when a boss was going away/dying and you wouldn't be able to keep them, but its animation was so long that the damage would often only come out by the time your next GCD Weaponskill was used (weaker without GL), or worse, the boss became invincible after you initiated the action but before the damage was dealt. Old Butcher's Block; WAR's old third-hit of their enmity combo. Sometimes folks would get aggro between the WAR provoking and before the damage (and threat) was actually dealt. Healer shields; for a long time, if you were shielding the animation of the shield being applied took longer before the player received the buff, which was compounded by the way that no AoEs in the game truly hit thing simultaneously. So, your shields may take considerably longer to reach one person than its cast time by virtue of them being furthest away in the party, and the animation of the spell, and the animation of the shield being applied to them. A boss's castbar would skip a shield applied after their cast finished, even if it was applied before the damage came out. Sometimes actions animations are inconsistent in length and this can be mistaken for the game's less-than-stellar netcode. When the effects (damage, healing, buffs, knockbacks etc) are actually applied is consistent, but it depends on the action. It's one of the things that makes the game feel clunky, especially since it's easy to miss.
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Sep 22, 2022 22:01
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you use Rescue to pull back the dps right as Griffin kicks them baelsar's wall. not for like up time or whatever but just as a huge "no, gently caress you" to that guy's bullshit
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Sep 22, 2022 22:02
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Rescue is the best spell. While I'd never* yank randoms into dangerous situations trolling friends by pulling them into AoEs is required. Dragging black mages too busy focusing on casting out of AoEs is just good manners.
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Sep 22, 2022 22:04
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If you get Rescued you must be in danger. Turn off tank stance and Shirk asap. Quit the dungeon and shut down your PC. Gather supplies and find shelter. Stay away from windows.
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Sep 22, 2022 22:09
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Electric Phantasm posted:Black mages keep getting mad at me whenever I rescue them from the fancy looking AoEs that only target them for some reason. Tell your black mages to stop leying their lives on the line
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Sep 22, 2022 22:14
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Rynoto posted:Rescue is the best spell. While I'd never* yank randoms into dangerous situations trolling friends by pulling them into AoEs is required. It was totally well intentioned too - I had run to the "far" safe spot and the healer wanted to bring me to the close one, they just did it at the worst moment possible lol. e: A healer rescued me recently on a P8 or something, I kinda just spaced out on like some mechanic overlap. I've totally felt the "aw heck, i messed up didn't I" rescues, but that one was "oh, poo poo, nice" I made sure to commend that healer lol. Little reason to treat it differently then getting a target heal or shield - they're likely doing you (and themselves) a favor. Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Sep 22, 2022 |
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Sep 22, 2022 22:22
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Jabbering Idiot posted:Rescue's also tougher to use than it should be because it has a longer animation than the skill really should have, given its "oh poo poo" case usage. It makes that little sparkly noise and then your character animates yoinking and THEN Rescue's effect happens; that delay's not entirely due to slow communication with the server. I dunno, there's probably someone out there that has timed the animation. didnt read 
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Sep 22, 2022 22:24
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i would say at least 75% of the time i rescue someone they just run straight back into danger and still get hit
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Sep 22, 2022 22:30
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Awesome! posted:i would say at least 75% of the time i rescue someone they just run straight back into danger and still get hit Spite.
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Sep 22, 2022 22:37
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I'd wager that most times someone gets rescued they don't realize what happened. Then panic thinking a fight mechanic drew them in and that they need to run away.
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Sep 22, 2022 22:44
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Gruckles posted:I'd wager that most times someone gets rescued they don't realize what happened. Then panic thinking a fight mechanic drew them in and that they need to run away. Yeah gonna be real here getting rescued is kinda disorienting.
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Sep 22, 2022 22:47
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Oxyclean posted:I'll never forget getting pulled into the way of an oncoming train thanks to rescue. Possibly hands down the hardest I've laughed playing XIV. I've accepted a revive into the way of a train myself. Was one of the more amusing ways of double-dieing embarrassingly.
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Sep 22, 2022 22:56
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I'm leveling BLM and would rather die than have a suboptimal Ley Lines.
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Sep 22, 2022 23:43
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Rynoto posted:Rescue is the best spell. While I'd never* yank randoms into dangerous situations trolling friends by pulling them into AoEs is required. Dragging black mages too busy focusing on casting out of AoEs is just good manners. when i get cloud deck or hell's kier as a healer with a friend, there's only ever one way the fight can end
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Sep 23, 2022 00:03
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Awesome! posted:i would say at least 75% of the time i rescue someone they just run straight back into danger and still get hit Most of the time when I get rescued it's in normal content where I've decided to take a vuln stack for uptime, so in those cases I usually gapclose right back into it.
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Sep 23, 2022 00:20
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Tamba posted:Or you can just let other people do all the math and just craft the recommendation for each day Where are these recommendations at?
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