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Mantle posted:This kind of thing is horrible where rescuers go in and immediately die. First responders can only wait outside and prevent more people from going in. I would be very mad that there are no safety protocols to prevent this from happening in my workplace. Yeah, this is something that shouldn't be able to happen. Actual consequences need to be handed out here, and remedial action taken.
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Sep 24, 2022 17:13
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You also really shouldn't have gone in the room if the other guy reported almost passing out. I've got no idea how I'd deal with that in the US, much less Japan, but my gut reaction would be to call the fire department because if nothing else they know the actual people to call if it's not them
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Sep 24, 2022 17:16
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Cyrano4747 posted:You also really shouldn't have gone in the room if the other guy reported almost passing out. Immediate response should be the FD, correct. We have meters to see if its safe to breath in there. We have canned air so we can go in and stop the problem. We have huge fans to vent it back out and make it safe again. Followed by OSHA. If I was on that scene I would have dispatch calling them for me.
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Sep 24, 2022 17:19
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Down the hall from my office there's a lab with an atmosphere sensor near its entrance. They work with liquid N2, so from time to time the alarm trips. It's so uncommon and makes such a curious sound that people from the offices always wander over to investigate.
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Sep 24, 2022 17:42
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Russian dry ice video is as unbelievably stupid and infuriating as you would imagine.
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Sep 24, 2022 18:38
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Mr Teatime posted:My friend I know your workplace is a clown show in general and you may be desensitised to nonsense but I cannot emphasise enough that this could have easily resulted in one or more fatalities and was murderously negligent. Depleted atmospheres kill people all the time and are something you cannot gently caress around with. This incident needs actual consequences for those involved you can’t brush it off. No. I know it's really bad. Someone could have easily died. I cannot believe he burnt through two or more loving gas canisters like that. I'm not in a position to really do anything. The head chef was (rightfully) pissed. Edit: I can't remember when the head chef told me this and in retrospect, I shouldn't have just gone in. I'll bring it up on Monday when I'm back at work. I guess I was so focused on how dumb the manager was that I didn't think about how dumb I was. Escape From Noise fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 18:58
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So an employee stole thousands of dollars of raw materials and product during his time and even on his way out the door. Did the bosses ever implement tighter/any inventory control in the 6 months since that time? Nope!
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Sep 24, 2022 19:03
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:So an employee stole thousands of dollars of raw materials and product during his time and even on his way out the door. Did the bosses ever implement tighter/any inventory control in the 6 months since that time? Nope! Well, you know what to do then
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Sep 24, 2022 19:13
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Breetai posted:What precisely happens when you do this? People throw lumps of dry ice in to a pool because it, admittedly, looks cool. What happens is as the dry ice reacts with the water it creates CO2 that hangs for a couple of feet above the water's surface. Person then dives in, has a swim underwater and surfaces, and does what everyone does in the that situation... takes a big gulp of not-air. So they're essentially drowning in CO2, because of the fog effect no one can see them, they pass out and sink under the water making it even harder to see them. If the OSHA gods are merciful it ends there, if they're feeling particularly malevolent someone else jumps in to look for the first person....
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Sep 24, 2022 19:20
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:So an employee stole thousands of dollars of raw materials and product during his time and even on his way out the door. Did the bosses ever implement tighter/any inventory control in the 6 months since that time? Nope! He walked so you could run. Go big.
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Sep 24, 2022 19:21
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Also breathing in CO2 can cause you to lose your sense of direction if you're still conscious. So people will be right in front of an opening leading to fresh oxygen and cannot understand that. Apparently, this often happens to divers that lose oxygen and they cannot understand up or down and will dive further to the bottom. It's pretty grim.
Escape From Noise fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 19:23
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Report that poo poo to your bosses
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Sep 24, 2022 20:32
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I'm planning to. This guy kills me. He's normally dumb as hell but that was criminally negligent.
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Sep 24, 2022 20:35
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New job, we're just getting the project rolling after 3 weeks and this Monday they change the ENTIRE infrastructure unannounced. Spend all week getting it back to zero, only to get told 9pm Fri night all that effort, which we were specifically told to do by our boss, actually broke the system and we'll have to redo it next week. Why did you assholes not TEST THIS first before unleashing it on live projects with client money attached to them!!!???
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Sep 24, 2022 20:37
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Escape From Noise posted:I'm planning to. This guy kills me. He's normally dumb as hell but that was criminally negligent. Not yet but he came drat close. Report the poo poo out of this.
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Sep 24, 2022 21:34
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Dumb poo poo your work does - This guy kills me
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Sep 24, 2022 22:24
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Outrail posted:Dumb poo poo your work does - This guy kills me More accurately, us.
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Sep 24, 2022 22:31
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Escape From Noise posted:Yeah. It's real bad. You got lucky. Like real "go out and buy a lottery ticket" lucky. I mean, look at this poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ItJe2Incs
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Sep 24, 2022 23:01
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The thing that a lot of people fail to conceptualise when thinking about the dangers of an oxygen depleted atmosphere is how rapidly it overtakes you. I constantly have to deal with colleagues in training sessions and drills who can’t get past this idea that it’s sort of like, holding your breath and not getting air for a while. Breathing in a depleted atmosphere causes your blood oxygen saturation to crash which depending on how bad the oxygen % is can lead to unconsciousness within a few breaths followed rapidly by brain damage and death. It’s unfortunately also extremely common during an incident like this occurring for there to be multiple fatalities because the first instinct everybody naturally has is to enter the space and try and save their friend. When we drill for enclosed space rescues I make it very clear that in reality it’d likely be a corpse retrieval. Depleted atmospheres are terrifying.
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Sep 24, 2022 23:46
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Escape From Noise posted:I'm planning to. At the risk of being annoying and redundant, I realize you said that you're planning to report this to your bosses, but you also said: Escape From Noise posted:I'm not in a position to really do anything. ...which makes me nervous. I have no idea what the equivalent of OSHA is in Japan, but as Mr Teatime pointed out above, this poo poo is super insidious and there could have easily been multiple deaths right there. If your bosses show the slightest hesitation at taking serious action (including providing proper (re?) training for whoever's involved in touching those canisters), I would strongly encourage you to Start poo poo with Japan-OSHA. People dying is where it goes from "lol work is stupid" to  Stay safe goon.
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Sep 25, 2022 01:18
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I mean I'm not in a position or have the title to fire or repremand anybody.
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Sep 25, 2022 04:38
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Then bail. This is legit dangerous poo poo and you need to be somewhere else. Stay safe goon.
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Sep 25, 2022 04:57
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Outrail posted:Dumb poo poo your work does - This guy kills me Escape From Noise posted:More accurately, us. Pro idea for this year's White Elephant / Secret Santa exchange: 
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Sep 25, 2022 05:01
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Escape From Noise posted:I mean I'm not in a position or have the title to fire or repremand anybody.
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Sep 25, 2022 05:07
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Escape From Noise posted:I mean I'm not in a position or have the title to fire or repremand anybody. I’d be willing to bet your boss says some variation of “what are you worried about, it turned out OK, you’re fine” and does nothing Maybe at best he’ll put up a sign
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Sep 25, 2022 07:08
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I do actually wonder how CO2 it would take to displace enough, if two tanks would actually do it. I've done calculations as part of risk assessments when setting up a large liquid argon tank, and the risk to the lab was low, it would lower the o2 level to about ~20% (assuming it spread out over the lab). The real risk is that argon pools... so the lab would be fine with the alarm not sounding while the floor below would all be dead with no alarm. When installing the alarm system, I paid for this super nice mining grade system that alarmed with a horn and lights. When it was installed a lady confronted me and asked if it had a flashing light, telling me she had epilepsy and she couldn't believe it and was upset that I didn't consider her disability.... I guess she doesn't think deaf people are a thing? Told her that if it sounds, it means there's less than 18% oxygen and to loving book it.
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Sep 25, 2022 08:36
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This was in a small, closed walk-in. While I suppose risk to diners was minimal, the risk of someone collapsing in the walk-in was very real. If he'd stopped at one canister, it probably wouldn't have been a huge risk, but two back to back really raised the threat.
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Sep 25, 2022 09:33
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So loving report it instead of just alternating posts between “oh wow we could have all died in there” and “aww shucks guys yeah I know it was bad but I’m just the beer guy what can I do about it” repeatedly?
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Sep 25, 2022 09:42
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History Comes Inside! posted:So loving report it instead of just alternating posts between “oh wow we could have all died in there” and “aww shucks guys yeah I know it was bad but I’m just the beer guy what can I do about it” repeatedly? I am loving reporting it. All I was saying is that I cannot directly reprimand or fire anybody because I'm not in a position in the company with that kind of power. I called my boss, but we didn't connect so I'm going to keep on that. I'm looking into contacts for the relevant safety bureaus but Japanese isn't my first language so I'm working on getting what information I need for this. Edit: My boss called me back today and I told him what happened as best as I could over the phone (I don't know why, I feel like my ability communicate in Japanese gets way worse over the phone). He seemed to understand the point though. What that means as far as consequences go, I'm not sure. I'm looking into what options are available to me but it's hard to get a ton going over a long weekend, even if I knew what department I needed to contact and how to communicate it. I guess I'm sorry it sounded like I was just sitting by and doing nothing but there's not much available to me immediately beyond my initial report. Escape From Noise fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 25, 2022 |
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Sep 25, 2022 09:50
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Carbon dioxide competes with oxygen for hæmoglobin binding and can incapacitate and kill even when oxygen concentration remains reasonable.
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Sep 25, 2022 10:53
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Escape From Noise posted:No. I know it's really bad. Someone could have easily died. I cannot believe he burnt through two or more loving gas canisters like that. I'm not in a position to really do anything. The head chef was (rightfully) pissed. They need to buy a CO2 alarm. Immediately. How is there an enclosed space with CO2 canisters and no CO2 alarm 
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Sep 25, 2022 10:55
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Megillah Gorilla posted:They need to buy a CO2 alarm. Immediately. I'm sure every bar and restaurant in most countries have co2 tanks in enclosed spaces with no alarms.
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Sep 25, 2022 12:38
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Platystemon posted:Carbon dioxide competes with oxygen for hæmoglobin binding and can incapacitate and kill even when oxygen concentration remains reasonable. Isn’t that carbon monoxide?
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Sep 25, 2022 12:43
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Zopotantor posted:Isn’t that carbon monoxide? Carbon monoxide’s binding is many times stronger, but they both do it.
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Sep 25, 2022 12:47
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CO is significantly more dangerous than CO2 because it binds faster and your brain doesn't detect it the way it does CO2, but basically any gas can suffocate you (except for oxygen I suppose).
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Sep 25, 2022 13:49
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TheSpartacus posted:I do actually wonder how CO2 it would take to displace enough, if two tanks would actually do it. A pound of CO2 in gas form is about 8.7 cubic feet. I have no idea what Japan uses, but standard bev service CO2 cylinders here are 20 lbs. So 174 cu ft. A "small walk in" is 6x10 with an 8 foot ceiling height. So 480 cu ft. So not quite full, but its heavy so chances are good all you need to do is bend down to........change a keg or turn off the thing thats leaking or grab something off a low shelf and you're gonna get a good lung full of it. On average it would be 2.9 feet off the ground in this imagined/guesstimated scenario. This is why the detectors/alarms are put at near floor level.
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Sep 25, 2022 15:25
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Motronic posted:This is why the detectors/alarms are put at near floor level. Absolutely true. Mine had auxiliary sensors at head height and 6 inches off ground for exactly this reason.
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Sep 25, 2022 15:32
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Megillah Gorilla posted:They need to buy a CO2 alarm. Immediately. oh that's like every single bar and restaurant that isn't a chain. isn't required by the health dept so they sure as gently caress ain't spending money on it.
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Sep 25, 2022 15:41
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So glad Australia mandates that you must have alarms if you have CO2 in a non ventilated area. Australian Standard AS5034-2005. loving insane that some countries* don't. * The US. It's always the US
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Sep 25, 2022 16:26
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Megillah Gorilla posted:loving insane that some countries* don't. Incorrect, but nice research-free assumption.
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Sep 25, 2022 16:30
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