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bob dobbs is dead posted:that shits sunni fundamentalism. iran is the most shia country in the world It's not really as simple as that. There's a general tendency assume Islam is much more monolithic and consistent than it actually is, and that goes for both Sunni and Shia Islam. Looking into the history, it's actually more of an Iranian thing than a Shi'ite thing. Historically Shi'ite scholars were not particularly more likely to approve of depicting the Prophet or his family than Sunni scholars, the thing is though that in parts of Iran, particularly in Persia (which is in the southwest) IIRC, it was actually not too uncommon to depict the Prophet, Ali and other saints and martyrs in art, face and all. And this was true when Iran was overwhelmingly Sunni in persuasion, the Shi'ism came later. Shi'ism in Iran is actually a very specific kind of Shi'ism, and it developed an even more specific guise in Iran under the Safavids and their successors because unlike Islam in most other countries it became organized in a very hierarchical and independent manner that actually kind of resembles "a church". This curious development (for an Islamic country) actually is a large part of the explanation for why you actually have the clergy seizing power in Iran, going back to the 19th century the conflict between the monarchy and the religious establishment was steadily intensifying, and it got even more so with secularist monarchs like Reza Shah. Dapper_Swindler posted:this. shia doesn't care outside maybe bluring out Muhmmad's face with holy light/flame/etc. they sell big posters of Ali, Hasan, Husayn and others in stalls. Again the caveat about it really being more of an Iranian thing, but you have straight up depictions of Muhammad as well. Face and all. My girfriend from back in high school had a necklace/medallion with an image of Muhammad. satanic splash-back posted:So how long until the government starts shooting? They've already been shooting. The death toll we're seeing is probably far lower than the real one. Though honestly it kind of seems like the authorities are in a bit of a disarray at the moment and at a loss for how to respond. Getting your hopes up can be dangerous, but honestly things seem pretty hopeful. If this is as big as it seems, I'm not sure how they can beat this down, simple reforms will not be enough to turn things around either I'm pretty sure. Assad had Iran, Hezbollah and Russia to back him up in slaughtering his people and could also depend on sectarian divisions that had been cultivated for decades. Unless China steps up (though I don't really know exactly what they could do, or what their reach in the Middle East is like), there's really no foregin help coming for the Ayatollahs, all they have is the IRGC. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 04:48
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satanic splash-back posted:So how long until the government starts shooting? ... you know there were government changes in tunisia egypt libya and yemen and an insurgency in the sinai and the syrian war and the yemeni war and the libyan thing right bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 04:49
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satanic splash-back posted:So how long until the government starts shooting? until?
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Sep 24, 2022 04:53
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bob dobbs is dead posted:... you know there were government changes in tunisia egypt libya and yemen and an insurgency in the sinai and the syrian war and the yemeni war and the libyan thing right Im not saying I'm right, I'm a loving idiot from nowhere America and I hope to be wrong. But it sure seems like these protests haven't done much to the government of Iran. They continue to use their military might in a way that makes it difficult for protestors to force real change. And as some other posters have said, it's a scary blueprint for other counties to follow.
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Sep 24, 2022 05:15
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The ayatollah should bite it but please no more lame monarchies
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Sep 24, 2022 06:36
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it would be pretty amazing if Iran could claw their way back to the 1979s 'revolution' and i wish them luck... im afraid a bunch of people are about to get shot and forced off the streets though.
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Sep 24, 2022 06:51
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--> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oEA6zK_8u8 I never knew Khomeini had an orange mohawk!
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Sep 24, 2022 06:59
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is Iran still protesting? any movement one way or the other? thanks to elo *barf* , i mean thanks to starlin *barf* thanks to internet satellites for some coverage when the govt can just shut it all down.
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Sep 24, 2022 07:08
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the shah was also a little fuckin poo poo with death squads, to be clear
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Sep 24, 2022 07:10
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 Elon!! 
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Sep 24, 2022 09:36
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Well, blow me down. I though the aniconism was something pretty much universal throughout Islam. More the fool me.
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Sep 24, 2022 10:12
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Samovar posted:Well, blow me down. I though the aniconism was something pretty much universal throughout Islam. More the fool me. Did something change?
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Sep 24, 2022 11:26
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satanic splash-back posted:Im not saying I'm right, I'm a loving idiot from nowhere America and I hope to be wrong. It's been like 8 days, let's give it time before we start pulling out "these protests haven't done much to the government."
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Sep 24, 2022 12:21
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The current sense I'm getting from posts like this is that while protests continue throughout most of the cities the Kurdish areas have to some degree expelled their government presence and are consequently most under more direct threat: https://twitter.com/SamRasoulpour/status/1573574634271801349 https://twitter.com/SamRasoulpour/status/1573629370421452803
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Sep 24, 2022 13:16
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Rides Naked posted:The current sense I'm getting from posts like this is that while protests continue throughout most of the cities the Kurdish areas have to some degree expelled their government presence and are consequently most under more direct threat: Yeah, and I know this makes me sound like a neo con probably, but how can we get these people weapons or how can they get it? Because the rubicon has been crossed, everyone is not going to go back to the status quote, and the government of Iran will respond with extreme violence due to it being humiliated and fear of being toppled. The people deserve the right to not be stock with rocks against Iranian military hardware.
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Sep 24, 2022 15:39
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Marshal Prolapse posted:Yeah, and I know this makes me sound like a neo con probably, but how can we get these people weapons or how can they get it? Because the rubicon has been crossed, everyone is not going to go back to the status quote, and the government of Iran will respond with extreme violence due to it being humiliated and fear of being toppled. The people deserve the right to not be stock with rocks against Iranian military hardware. They’re Kurds. there’s like 25 separatist orgs that are already loaded up with weapons leftover from ISIS fight, the American Iraq invasion, various black markets that are going to swarm in now that there’s a faint opportunity.
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Sep 24, 2022 15:42
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:They’re Kurds. there’s like 25 separatist orgs that are already loaded up with weapons leftover from ISIS fight, the American Iraq invasion, various black markets that are going to swarm in now that there’s a faint opportunity. Well if this is correct it looks like they are worried about that possibility: https://twitter.com/SamRasoulpour/status/1573663630498959364 (Alleged shelling around Kurdistan border)
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Sep 24, 2022 16:03
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:They’re Kurds. there’s like 25 separatist orgs that are already loaded up with weapons leftover from ISIS fight, the American Iraq invasion, various black markets that are going to swarm in now that there’s a faint opportunity. Excellent point I should has said for the non Kurdish regions, granted more weapons if they need them. Also cops learned what happens when the people you oppress (like real not in the deluded maga sense have guns. Lots of dead cops who got shot. I’ll post it as code  but I think it’s extremely newsworthy.code:code:https://twitter.com/aaron_evarts/status/1573309974612418562 https://twitter.com/aaron_evarts/status/1573337541897768961?s=46&t=yqP7t5GpZaBU3NnBqC4hAw https://twitter.com/aaron_evarts/status/1573682899949232128?s=46&t=yqP7t5GpZaBU3NnBqC4hAw Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 16:06
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More weapons for the rebels you say?  https://i.imgur.com/vOIOOP6.mp4
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Sep 24, 2022 16:37
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arming the rebels works every time
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Sep 24, 2022 16:42
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"AK-47s for everyone!"
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Sep 24, 2022 16:52
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:arming the rebels works every time I’ll take it over letting them get massacred.
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Sep 24, 2022 16:55
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Militant groups in Iran are weak and largely organized around ethnic separatism and have deep factional disputes, it's difficult to see how they could unite into an organized armed opposition, especially with mainstream Iranian politics which is strongly nationalist and opposed to ethnic separatism. I also think people are also overestimating the military power of the militant groups, anti-government attacks are few and far between in Iran. There's no sign that the capture of Oshvanieh was organized by an armed group, it seems to be a spontaneous action, and taking a city of 40k in the chaos of the protests is one thing, but what happens when loyalist troops are sent in? The most likely outcome here is a repeat of the November 2019 protests, where mass arrests and shooting of protesters in the streets successfully end the protests by force. This doesn't mean a return to the status quo. The increasing frequency and intensity of protests is a trend that won't be reversed, and the anti-hijab aspect of this specific protest wave is important. But the lack of a credible civilian political opposition or organized militant force in the country is a huge barrier for the protest movement. This is a 1963 moment, not 1979. I also see foreign weapons aid to the protesters is unlikely, I think there's no appetite in the Biden administration for it. Maybe Saudi Arabia or the UAE would try.
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Sep 24, 2022 16:55
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I figure they can be moved in via a third party or the Kurdish region of Iraq. Honestly, I’m surprised some in the region won’t jump on the chance.
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Sep 24, 2022 16:59
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Marshal Prolapse posted:I’ll take it over letting them get massacred. Marshal Prolapse posted:I figure they can be moved in via a third party or the Kurdish region of Iraq. The government has overwhelming military power and no one is going to send tanks or military aircraft to protesters in Iran. Like in 1979, if protests overtake the security forces, it will be because the security forces refuse to fire on protesters, not because protesters are winning gun battles in the streets.
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Sep 24, 2022 17:03
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Marshal Prolapse posted:I figure they can be moved in via a third party or the Kurdish region of Iraq. Oh someone will arm the poo poo out of these people, almost out of principle. For example, Israel. Will it topple the regime?  Will it be a big PITA for the Ayatolla?  IIRC It took something like 9 months for Libya to go from protests in the streets to  on Gaddafi.
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Sep 24, 2022 17:07
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We also bombed the poo poo out of Gaddafi so that definitely helped. These protests really look absolutely massive, and I do think that if there's a critical mass of pissed of people, there isn't really anything the regime would be able to do if they're not willing to murder millions.
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Sep 24, 2022 17:14
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rafington posted:The government has overwhelming military power and no one is going to send tanks or military aircraft to protesters in Iran. Like in 1979, if protests overtake the security forces, it will be because the security forces refuse to fire on protesters, not because protesters are winning gun battles in the streets. I mean so they can then seize more weapons or depots, basically like the start of a doom game (for a little levity) as an analogy. Besides Iran swapping to a secular republic is win win in general in terms of removing toxic mullah polices in the Middle East. Also screws Russia over. Most importantly the people of Iran can make their own destiny.
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Sep 24, 2022 17:18
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The cause has to infiltrate the military or at least the overwhelming majority of the national security apparatus. There's no other way. Good luck. edit: as in the sentiment itself has to be taken up by the military itself, due to mid-level personnel internally organizing I imagine? I dunno how that works. I'm not a coup guy. 😎
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Sep 24, 2022 18:52
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Dang It Bhabhi! posted:The cause has to infiltrate the military or at least the overwhelming majority of the national security apparatus. There's no other way. Good luck. Don't I have a book for you: 
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Sep 24, 2022 19:01
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Maybe a cool secular government would be a better option 
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Sep 24, 2022 19:05
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mobby_6kl posted:Don't I have a book for you: Boy. I’m sure glad the powers that be totally don’t know about this book that specifically tells the proles not to do anything mean to the oppressor
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Sep 24, 2022 19:06
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hmm these people seem mad how can we get them assault rifles ASAP......
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Sep 24, 2022 19:19
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The CIA......... is based???
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Sep 24, 2022 19:19
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Dandywalken posted:The CIA......... is based??? Always has been
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Sep 24, 2022 19:21
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Dandywalken posted:The CIA......... is based??? In Virginia, yes.
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Sep 24, 2022 19:26
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Plan R posted:Can we blame Jimmy Carter for this? The American people rejecting realpolitik and electing an idealist for once in our history clearly turned out poorly. A Gerald Ford administration with Henry Kissinger as Secretary of State would have propped up the Shah.
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Sep 24, 2022 20:12
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Cops on the run in Kashmar, supposedly last night https://i.imgur.com/8KtkbK3.mp4
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Sep 24, 2022 20:18
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Every Iranian I've ever known was absolutely cranked to 11. I've never seen a group of people that had such an intense and driving lust for life across the board. My heart sings every time I see them take to the streets, and I hope they bury these old men in the ground and take back everything that was stolen from them.
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Sep 24, 2022 20:28
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drat, this new Starship Troopers game is actually good and funny! nothing yet about taking down Khamenei.
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Sep 24, 2022 20:32
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