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GlyphGryph posted:I do not have any loving clue what any of this is supposed to mean, and I'm pretty sure its because it just doesn't make any sense? I was mid-way through an edit expanding on that post when I had to step away for a moment, which is now complete if you're genuinely interested, and if not I don't think there's really much more for me to say anyways.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:09
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Duderclese posted:Oh, eighty posts in the roguelike thread lemme see- Arguing what is and isn't a roguelike and how bad/good metaprogression is, classic staples of the thread. Instead of that, let me talk more about ICOV and how great it is. I think something that wasn't immediately obvious to me was how much the achievements change the starting state of a run. Focusing on getting them and not winning makes a huge difference in the starting state. I managed to kill thousandfold by getting five back to back wins. Solid strat is to bank roughly 250 XP to buy your favorite weapon from the rack, upgrade it 2-3 times, then hoard resources to sell in the first level. Then after the first boss you bank the XP to set up the next run then it's easy sailing. Pro tip raise dead and summon zombies are amazing spells, but you should always use the radial to tell them to wait, they'll die easily in the levels but can solo pretty much any boss with numbers easily.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:16
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the real metaprogression is the opinions you form about metaprogression along the way
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Sep 27, 2022 01:17
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the holy poopacy posted:The good news is that even if you lose the metaprogression argument, you will earn valuable experience which will help you progress further the next time it comes up ITT. lol
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Sep 27, 2022 01:29
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ToxicFrog posted:And of course radiating anything gets you flavour text, which is the real reason to do it. truth 
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Sep 27, 2022 01:36
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Agents are GO! posted:Different people can find different things engaging or boring depending on taste. For example, I'm sure you find your opinions engaging, but they're boring as poo poo for everyone else. I made literally one post saying "it's not a big deal it's just a little annoying" so obviously I'm the real monster here
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Sep 27, 2022 01:38
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honestly I think I've circled back around on ICoV and am feeling now like it is a game that initially seems complex/deep, but actually has very simple(too simple) combat systems, and just seems more complex/deep than it actually is because some parts of it are obtuse/badly explained.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:45
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I think ICoV's obtuseness and wonky combat make it better. The game gets actively more unfair as it goes on, and winning thus becomes dependent on a combination of genuine skill and rampant, bald-faced, moustache-twirling bullshittery. ICoV is a malevolent genie and you are a lovely little goblin who has found its lamp and is absolutely hell-bent on outwitting and murdering it so you can steal said lamp. I like it for some of the same reasons that I like IVAN, with the key difference that I can actually win in ICoV. I'm not insane enough to claim that it's For Everyone, but I mean, that's roguelixes, babey
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Sep 27, 2022 01:53
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oh my god 3 pages i'm sorry for whingeing about the loving tetrids okay 
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Sep 27, 2022 02:03
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Angry Diplomat posted:I think ICoV's obtuseness and wonky combat make it better.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:04
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if we have to have the meta progression debate again next time lets do it with a twist. something like these systems are bad because they inherently reinforce our society's capitalistic structures. the illusion that if you work hard and save up enough one day you can succeed in the system.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:05
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Ciaphas posted:oh my god 3 pages i'm sorry for whingeing about the loving tetrids okay tetris is a roguelike because its on a grid and what blocks you get are procedural determined
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Sep 27, 2022 02:06
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Ciaphas posted:oh my god 3 pages i'm sorry for whingeing about the loving tetrids okay Well, this conversation reminded me to play more Void Rains and also that "Guardian Angel" is an absolute banger of a track, so some good came out of it 
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Sep 27, 2022 02:54
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im a big fan of the alternative glass flora theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXr52_DxfnE
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Sep 27, 2022 03:02
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IronicDongz posted:honestly I think I've circled back around on ICoV and am feeling now like it is a game that initially seems complex/deep, but actually has very simple(too simple) combat systems, and just seems more complex/deep than it actually is because some parts of it are obtuse/badly explained. Yeah I mentioned something like that earlier tonight. I wish there was more to do in the game to try to get yourself "ahead" of the power curve. As it is, pretty much the only thing other than fully exploring the map/killing everything is farming resources, which is about as engaging as pudding farming.
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Sep 27, 2022 03:22
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To be fair, Quickplay mode in The Void Rains is really grindy, but the dev says it's that way because he really likes grinding in games and wants there to be a mode for other people who enjoy grinding lol. Which, fair enough.
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Sep 27, 2022 03:36
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goferchan posted:To be fair, Quickplay mode in The Void Rains is really grindy, but the dev says it's that way because he really likes grinding in games and wants there to be a mode for other people who enjoy grinding lol. Which, fair enough. And as someone who doesn't like grinding, I appreciate that all the grinding has been concentrated into an optional game mode I load up once a month to experiment with specific loadouts and that's it.
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Sep 27, 2022 03:47
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Ciaphas posted:oh my god 3 pages i'm sorry for whingeing about the loving tetrids okay For what its worth I do find the tetrid system unwieldy and unpleasant, definitely one of the worst metaprogression systems in pure gamefeel I've seen in a while. I like the actual bullet hell gameplay enough that it's not a huge deal, but I sort of wish it was just... excised. Also I didn't realize the game was so early access that it only takes a dozen runs to hit the end of story mode content, that was a bit disappointing. (even if that was only the end in those directions and there are still other story mode directions I haven't unlocked yet, which is what I'm assuming right now) GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 03:58
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megane posted:dude what the gently caress Sorry, I wasn't paying close attention and got you confused with Tuxedo Catfish, because I am dumb sometimes. My apologies, for both things.  (I went back and edited my post.) Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 04:19
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Snooze Cruise posted:if we have to have the meta progression debate again next time lets do it with a twist. something like these systems are bad because they inherently reinforce our society's capitalistic structures. the illusion that if you work hard and save up enough one day you can succeed in the system. everyone only talks about metaprogression and I just want to know when we'll get some big biaprogression
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Sep 27, 2022 04:29
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Snooze Cruise posted:if we have to have the meta progression debate again next time lets do it with a twist. something like these systems are bad because they inherently reinforce our society's capitalistic structures. the illusion that if you work hard and save up enough one day you can succeed in the system. Roguelike progression is an extension of dialectical materialism. While not every run succeeds, every run has the possibility of success. As we learn the parameters of the game, we internalize the tenets of international communism, and we bring ourselves closer to understanding how to actualize the proletariat revolution. This understanding can be intentionally corrupted by reactionaries via the bourgeois affectation of metaprogression. Metaprogression is counterrevolutionary because it recreates the unjust advantages of the bourgeois in an otherwise egalitarian digital space. When you finally conquer a Roguelike without metaprogression, it is as if all of us conquer it. Metaprogression robs the world of this triumph in the name of bourgeois comfort. The collective effort is made singular, and robs all Roguelike players of their birthright. Agents are GO! fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 04:30
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:everyone only talks about metaprogression and I just want to know when we'll get some big biaprogression The people want big bia!!! Everyone is saying it
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Sep 27, 2022 04:31
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Are there any roguelikes that have a lot of infighting? That was my favorite part of Incursion, how it felt like there were other adventurers and parties going around getting into scraps. Zorbus gives me a bit of that vibe as well
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Sep 27, 2022 04:37
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GlyphGryph posted:For what its worth I do find the tetrid system unwieldy and unpleasant, definitely one of the worst metaprogression systems in pure gamefeel I've seen in a while. I like the actual bullet hell gameplay enough that it's not a huge deal, but I sort of wish it was just... excised. It's been in Early Access for ~4 years now with a couple of content updates every month. Story mode only lacks story, if you haven't unlocked all the bosses, their events, all the alternative characters, most of the gifts, the quickplay, altered story and true Roguelike modes you haven't hit the end of the content. How many acheivments are you at? That's probably the best indicator of how much content you still have to go. fez_machine fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 04:52
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As far as I know, the developer put in the first chunk of story and since has spent all their time adding every bit of content that isn't story cutscenes, which will come (all at once?) at the end. Otherwise the game is almost done, with only a handful of monsters and events left to add. Assuming the goal posts aren't moved some more, that is.
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Sep 27, 2022 05:05
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Mithross posted:As far as I know, the developer put in the first chunk of story and since has spent all their time adding every bit of content that isn't story cutscenes, which will come (all at once?) at the end. Otherwise the game is almost done, with only a handful of monsters and events left to add. Lol I think i've posted it before but when I first bought the game like 2 years ago the most recent update had said something like "Ok, got about 8 new monsters to add before 1.0" and now it's 2 years later and there's 30 more bosses and 4 new characters and 100 new items and it's still only a handful of monsters away from 1.0. I don't mind one bit honestly, it's a game like Isaac or something where you could just feed me content forever and I'd be happy
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Sep 27, 2022 05:49
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The Chad Jihad posted:Are there any roguelikes that have a lot of infighting? That was my favorite part of Incursion, how it felt like there were other adventurers and parties going around getting into scraps. Zorbus gives me a bit of that vibe as well
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Sep 27, 2022 06:34
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fez_machine posted:The most optimal way to play Void Rains in regards to currency is to always choose the hardest option available and then play at a high skill (don't get hit, don't lose combo). So what you're telling me is that the game is made in such a way to make me play on a difficulty level I can easily crush and punishes me for trying challenge myself and that's good game design?
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Sep 27, 2022 07:11
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goferchan posted:To be fair, Quickplay mode in The Void Rains is really grindy, but the dev says it's that way because he really likes grinding in games and wants there to be a mode for other people who enjoy grinding lol. Which, fair enough. That explains everything.
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Sep 27, 2022 07:21
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The Chad Jihad posted:Are there any roguelikes that have a lot of infighting? That was my favorite part of Incursion, how it felt like there were other adventurers and parties going around getting into scraps. Zorbus gives me a bit of that vibe as well Streets of Rogue My favorite way of killing someone when I can't do it by direct means is to anger them, run in front of some cops and let myself get hit. Them watch the cops go to town. Also the game has multituted of factions that can be pitted against each other. It's a fantastic game.
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Sep 27, 2022 07:26
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an iksar marauder posted:only pokemon mystery dungeon red rescue team is a rougelike 
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Sep 27, 2022 08:01
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Jack Trades posted:So what you're telling me is that the game is made in such a way to make me play on a difficulty level I can easily crush and punishes me for trying challenge myself and that's good game design? hmm maybe there's a mid-point between the two poles presumed by this incredible bad faith read
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Sep 27, 2022 08:36
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How about everyone calm down and talk about roguelikes instead of each other?
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Sep 27, 2022 08:40
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Agents are GO! posted:Roguelikes: you knew what I loving meant, you pedantic rear end. new thread title
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Sep 27, 2022 09:10
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Tiny Rogues run completed with wizard, yay!  (Death was killed in a few seconds, poor guy, it's true mages are OP right now, my first games in the game happened to be good with rangers and warriors and not mages so I had the wrong impression) I got the perk that gives you extra soul hearts per boss and the one that gives you extra damage per total soul hearts but removes your normal hearts, that helped a lot.
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Sep 27, 2022 10:38
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Jack Trades posted:Streets of Rogue Yeah you can zombify one person and end up creating a chain reaction where everyone on the level becomes a zombie. You can hire people to cause distractions for you, pit rival gangs against each other, etc -- it's totally viable to just complete objectives by manipulating NPCs
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Sep 27, 2022 12:08
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goferchan posted:Yeah you can zombify one person and end up creating a chain reaction where everyone on the level becomes a zombie. You can hire people to cause distractions for you, pit rival gangs against each other, etc -- it's totally viable to just complete objectives by manipulating NPCs It owns a whole lot. The amount of systems in that game that have the possibility of interacting with each other in different ways is staggering. It's easily the best immersive sim in the recent years. I can't wait to see what the sequel has in store.
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Sep 27, 2022 12:14
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 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Sep 27, 2022 14:27
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GlyphGryph posted:Also I didn't realize the game was so early access that it only takes a dozen runs to hit the end of story mode content, that was a bit disappointing. (even if that was only the end in those directions and there are still other story mode directions I haven't unlocked yet, which is what I'm assuming right now) Yeah, the actual story content is very thin on the ground right now. Story mode keeps getting new monsters/items/events as you unlock them, but most of the final bosses are missing, only two of the characters have any story setup and no-one has any resolution. And the rest of the story is planned to be the very last thing before it leaves EA.  IIRC, the current roadmap looks something like: v7.x: remaining non-final-boss monsters, shiny battles, and storyline events v8.x: remaining music, any monsters that got pushed back from v7, Tower game mode v9.x: remaining final bosses, playable characters, and storyline The dev has mentioned elsewhere that about 50% of the story content is implemented and ready to ship, but less than 10% is actually accessible in-game currently, so there will probably be some point in the v9 series where a huge pile of story content lands at once.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:34
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Jack Trades posted:
I mean, darkest dungeon was always about grinding your way to a win. Like, a lot of grinding. People where fine with it as it let you suffer horrendous casualties and then enjoy the gloomy vibe as you climbed back up. That being said, arghhh.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:44
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