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Is it possible to make a game like civ/hoi which accounts for material reality at all? Or would you just be perpetually locked into doing stuff give or take as it happened irl? I don't play games like that please don't be mad at me
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Sep 26, 2022 23:06
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Vicky is sort of attempting to do it but the issue is that the player in a strategy game is pretty much inherently unrealistic
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Sep 26, 2022 23:21
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KirbyKhan posted:Against The Storm is a Banished-like that's pretty tightly focused and small scaled. It does the rougelike thing of presenting you buildings one decision at a time. Pace of the game is good, enough time to build one good economic engine or half an engine and a gimmick. Very Slay The Spire but Endzone I can heartily recommend Against The Storm.
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Sep 27, 2022 00:09
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Megamissen posted:i would really like to see research changed in hoi4 HoI2 sorta had this in that each country had a series of companies which were responsible for research so Germany was really good at chemistry and tanks while the British had fantastic airplane industries and smaller nations had less developed research companies with maybe one or two specialized ones.
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Sep 27, 2022 12:55
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Mans posted:Germany was really good at chemistry 
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Sep 27, 2022 12:58
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Mans posted:HoI2 sorta had this in that each country had a series of companies which were responsible for research so Germany was really good at chemistry and tanks while the British had fantastic airplane industries and smaller nations had less developed research companies with maybe one or two specialized ones. also when you annexed a country you got all their research teams so you could become a tech juggernaut by endgame
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Sep 27, 2022 13:17
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Slavvy posted:Is it possible to make a game like civ/hoi which accounts for material reality at all? Or would you just be perpetually locked into doing stuff give or take as it happened irl? I don't play games like that please don't be mad at me Civilization I would argue already reflects "material reality" quite a bit, if only because producing stuff always requires hammers and you do not progress your nation by being really good at financialization.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:23
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Did the Civ series ever introduce negative effects to chopping down all your forests for sped up production? Wanna see that soil erosion gently caress things up.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:28
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gradenko_2000 posted:Civilization I would argue already reflects "material reality" quite a bit, if only because producing stuff always requires hammers and you do not progress your nation by being really good at financialization. This is ultimately going to be the problem with most games. Video game designers, however STEMy some of them are, generally subscribe to the liberal theories of history and economics and have liberal worldviews. They have big limitations in seeing the world beyond that. There have been good examples of exceptions here, Wiz seems like a guy at Paradox who’s got a handle of it, but ideas of human progress moving towards capitalist liberal western democracy are so deeply embedded in the culture that it would be shocking to see a game that doesn’t have financialization as the final form of economy. The new Tropical title goes all-in on that, building the financial builds is so much better than industrial or agricultural production you’d be crazy not to.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:14
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They invented the Haber process in WWI, it became their special ability
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Sep 27, 2022 16:32
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Orange Devil posted:Did the Civ series ever introduce negative effects to chopping down all your forests for sped up production? Forests provided health for city's in civ iv.
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Sep 27, 2022 16:49
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The problem is that most strategy games have you playing as the zeitgeist of a nation rather than any individual actor, so you're always gonna have some weirdness. Like Vicky3 appears to be trying to model a lot of these forces but has a player consciously directing production in order to empower the groups they want. Which is fine, and it can simulate a lot of the issues, but it's never gonna be that realistic imo
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Sep 27, 2022 19:12
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that's why Crusader King is the superior series don't think there's another series that allows you to create a family of hosed up inbreds
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Sep 27, 2022 19:19
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Ck is definitely better or at worst more interesting. There's still some weirdness, like how a player avoids title division inheritance like the plague when there are a lot of reasons that irl people would prefer it, but it puts you in a different perspective.
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Sep 27, 2022 19:37
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The character-driven stuff in CK3 is fun but the actual empire building is awful. Fabricate claim, invade, shuffle titles over and over. One game of that and it's already tedious. I don't really care how awesome my family or council is because everything they do is so boring.
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Sep 27, 2022 19:40
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Frosted Flake posted:This is ultimately going to be the problem with most games. Video game designers, however STEMy some of them are, generally subscribe to the liberal theories of history and economics and have liberal worldviews. They have big limitations in seeing the world beyond that. But in Tropico you're explicitly supposed to be corrupt, so building financial institutions that move numbers around and pay out big number is totally within the theme, particularly when you're diverting as much of that as possible to a Swiss account.
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Sep 27, 2022 19:44
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I wonder if the biggest hurdle to doing a game that's more based on a material history is it runs counter to what most of your players believe and so you'd run into problems of people struggling to succeed because everything is counterintuitive unless you abstract things enough that you teach them to play your game. Like AoE or something.
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Sep 27, 2022 19:46
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are there any good civil war games?
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Sep 27, 2022 19:54
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Dreylad posted:I wonder if the biggest hurdle to doing a game that's more based on a material history is it runs counter to what most of your players believe and so you'd run into problems of people struggling to succeed because everything is counterintuitive unless you abstract things enough that you teach them to play your game. Like AoE or something. Wasn't there a text based strategy MMO that did exactly this and it resulted in loads of people complaining that starting a new country against established incumbents was impossible?
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Sep 27, 2022 19:56
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Frosted Flake posted:This is ultimately going to be the problem with most games. Video game designers, however STEMy some of them are, generally subscribe to the liberal theories of history and economics and have liberal worldviews. They have big limitations in seeing the world beyond that. to be clear, what I'm trying to say is that Civilization, even if it abides by a "Whig-ish" view of societal development, still has its economics at least partially grounded in materialism, even if its developers are probably some flavor of [neo]liberal you can't spend gold to buy units and buildings until you hit some later level of post-Tribal/Slavery government, and even then, gold is tightly controlled enough in these games that you can't use pure financialization as a driver of your empire, and you still need some cities with actual factories in order to produce units and whatnot. Even in Civ 4, which arguably had the best support for this, still cheated by simply having Towns produce 1 Hammer per turn if you had Universal Suffrage. on some primal level, these people understand that neoliberal economics cannot produce a convincing or workable simulation of the world, and so their games hearken back to at least Ricardian if not Marxist views of production
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Sep 28, 2022 04:47
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Orange Devil posted:Did the Civ series ever introduce negative effects to chopping down all your forests for sped up production? in pretty much all of the later Civs, the argument for Forests is that you're eventually going to unlock late-game technologies that make them more valuable, such as: - Civ 4 has Lumber Mills (more production) or Forest Preserves (more Happy and Gold) - Civ 5 has Lumber Mills or Trading Posts (more Gold) - Civ 6 has Lumber Mills but you trade-away the one-time boost of production from chopping them down, which can be critically valuable in the early game, such as enabling a rush of Swordsmen for an early war as well, Civs that have climate change as a late-game mechanic usually counts remaining Forests as a mitigating factor
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Sep 28, 2022 04:54
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Dreylad posted:I wonder if the biggest hurdle to doing a game that's more based on a material history is it runs counter to what most of your players believe and so you'd run into problems of people struggling to succeed because everything is counterintuitive unless you abstract things enough that you teach them to play your game. Like AoE or something. The biggest hurdle is that it's a video game and people want to have fun. Putting things into a materialist perspective adds a really thick layer of determinism to everything. And if you start giving the player some agency then it becomes a question of well how much of an impact should an individual decision have from a materialist perspective? Edit: You can create a range of sub optimal play, exploitation of material conditions to achieve a desired goal, to most optimal. But that's still a very hard game design problem of creating a difficulty curve that a player would enjoy. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 05:01 on Sep 28, 2022 |
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Sep 28, 2022 04:58
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err posted:are there any good civil war games? Ultimate General: Civil War is the best single answer to this question Strategic Command: American Civil War is the one you want if you want a... strategic level view of the war, and maybe something even more beer-and-pretzels John Tiller's Civil War series are good for deep, single-battle studies, but are also quite large games everything else is a harder recommendation from there
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Sep 28, 2022 05:04
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I enjoyed Ultimate General: Gettysburg quite a bit even though it's not a very long or varied game. I'd definitely recommend it if you like slow RTS style engagements and moving 1,000+ man units around on a topographical map. Horses, cannon, heroic stands and cowardly retreats! Conceived by a darth-vader-loading-screen-inserting grognard that was so frustrated at the balance in some other game series (total war?) that he said he's make his own game, but actually did it. I was hoping the sequel would improve it but never got around to playing it. If it has the same quality and more/better features I'll probably pick it up. If it's just a bigger expansion a la Brood War then I'm still down. Give me some cloaked sharps shooters and burrowing sappers, hell yeah.
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Sep 28, 2022 05:16
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err posted:are there any good civil war games? revolution under siege isn't modern but is fantastic.
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Sep 28, 2022 09:14
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Grand Tactician is one to at least keep an eye on and maybe watch a couple vids. Comes a lot closer to capturing the nuances of the ACW than most. Still needs a lot of workpalindrome posted:I enjoyed Ultimate General: Gettysburg quite a bit even though it's not a very long or varied game. I'd definitely recommend it if you like slow RTS style engagements and moving 1,000+ man units around on a topographical map. Horses, cannon, heroic stands and cowardly retreats! Conceived by a darth-vader-loading-screen-inserting grognard that was so frustrated at the balance in some other game series (total war?) that he said he's make his own game, but actually did it. That still boggles my mind. Blowhard modder who lies about his capabilities to the point where an actual game dev points out that some of the things he claims hes doing are literally impossible to mod, throws a fit and goes off to makes his own games and they.... are solid with decent AI ?
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Sep 28, 2022 14:17
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eh, the maps in Ultimate general are pre generated and it's campaign is linear. Dartis winding up doing the same thing as Creative Assembly to pad out the game is really funny to me tho.
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Sep 28, 2022 14:19
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I'm watching someone explain Terra Invicta's first turn. His move is by taking over the Belgum/Luxemburg/Amsterdam region known as Benelux. This game seems like it is a lot of game.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:03
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On turn 2 you have an opening to affect the conflict in The Ukraine (or in Ukraine depending on which side of the conflict you want to infiltrate) to further your alien goals. You can present your agency's manifesto for an influence boost but then your enemies will know who you are from the words you spoke and published. The youtuber opened the tech tree and I was like wow. Then he pressed the "View Full Tech Tree" button, the game lagged for 20 seconds, and I died. This is a Path of Exile sized tree. Jesus Christ this is a lot of game.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:12
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KirbyKhan posted:I'm watching someone explain Terra Invicta's first turn. His move is by taking over the Belgum/Luxemburg/Amsterdam region known as Benelux. This game seems like it is a lot of game. thats a really bad opening, you need to shore up Italy before picking up non battlegrounds
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Sep 28, 2022 16:15
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Lostconfused posted:tl:dr It's a video game, people want to have fun, nobody wants materialism if it's not going to be fun. yeah, one of the kinda ur-video game experiences is the zero-to-hero thing and in strategy games that's starting as like the one-province minor, but tbqh, the archbisphoric of bremen was never going to conquer the world, sorry to say, and if you limited players to what that country could do, there wouldn't be much fun to be had there the german HRE minor states were protected more by cultural norms and law than anything they could do from a military perspective honestly, i think the eu board game is more fun to me than the computer game even though it's a lot less simulative, simply because, it's unabashed about being the players competing against one another and the NPR(non-player realms) are just things to be absorbed or used as needed to help yourself in this competition to win the game instead of being a toy where you look at borders move with amusement
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Sep 28, 2022 16:29
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https://twitter.com/Matrix_Wargames/status/1575101069344280578?t=4COUpKA5MTJlErhFW0oKLw&s=19 Just the UI improvements alone look amazing
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Sep 28, 2022 16:44
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/Matrix_Wargames/status/1575101069344280578?t=4COUpKA5MTJlErhFW0oKLw&s=19 4CMBG.
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Sep 28, 2022 17:03
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the politics of Terra Invicta are very funny taken together. Color revolutions are a game mechanic. The US can be fixed in a few clicks by switching the budget from military to welfare. Israel is a "flawed democracy." I'm watching some videos of a guy who aligned Russia and the US together and is using the US military to help Russia reestablish the USSR.
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Sep 30, 2022 04:52
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It is hard to explain Terra Invicta peicemeal: just seeing on Turn 2 "Russia starts invasion of Ukraine" is like red flag city but then you buy INTERPOL to give your agent +3 Investigation skill, take control of France with 4 lucky dice rolls, and set your celebrity to Improve Public Opinion so you can get the UK back into the European Union by 2023. It is bananas and then the aliens start showing up The above play was funded entirely by taking control of African nations, increasing the Spoils rating there to extract as much $$ as possible, and funneling it into Benelux investments infrastructure. This is all bad, but like it is so much that it just kinda bounces off my brain pan.
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Sep 30, 2022 14:08
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Why the gently caress don't they just have the game start on some bullshit date in the future (2040?) and make a setting that is more of a blank canvas versus this poo poo. Why even have it?! The main lure is fighting aliens, who is also wanting Capitalism/middle school civics simulator? At least Long War was about expanding the actual gameplay versus some awkward politics simulator/gatekeeper where you get the dumb stuff people have been bringing up. I'd love to play the 2nd half of the game but lol at slogging through the beginning
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Sep 30, 2022 14:17
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Terra Invicta is stupidly ambitious and tries to do too way too many things and half of it barely works and I love it.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:06
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I really do dig having to do a full videogame worth of micromanagement and esoteric button clicking so I can craft my own bonus modifiers to my second videogame in space. No irony this is a crazy game and the production value is OFF THE CHARTS for a crazybrain game.v
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Sep 30, 2022 16:09
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It's unironically cool when developers are willing to create their weird dream games even if they end up alienating a big part of their potential audience and/or turn their games into unplayable messes.
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Sep 30, 2022 16:13
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super ambitious tirefires are the best everyone should play amazing cultivation simulator
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Sep 30, 2022 16:29
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