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Yeah, I'm just saying there are atypical cases where I sympathize with digging through whatever options available to get the upgrade to go through. I'm not disputing that a clean install is the best option for most.
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Sep 26, 2022 23:16
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Flipperwaldt posted:Yeah, I'm just saying there are atypical cases where I sympathize with digging through whatever options available to get the upgrade to go through. I'm not disputing that a clean install is the best option for most. I know…I think I got preemptively defensive because Stux and anybody not-Stux got in a slapfight in a game thread and couldn’t stand to see it happen in a “we all use Windows here” thread lol. No harm no foul! To reiterate, both 10 and 11 are extremely easy to flatten and reinstall. With the right circumstances it’s probably even the fastest way to fix jankiness in an OS. Not everybody is in the right circumstances, though, and this thread is very, very good at diagnosing and helping fix Win11 issues. 
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Sep 27, 2022 00:31
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Personally, I thought the biggest success for Windows in recent history was that it now rarely needs to be flattened and reinstalled. I had the same 10 install since 2016 and while it wasn't problem-free, I never needed to format the drive. (One time I did a reset, which was mildly annoying. But in-place upgrade would have been better and I should have done that.) A much better record than I had with anything previous, even 7. As I say, to me a format & reinstall was a pretty big hassle and I was very glad to avoid it. I look at and change options for most every program I use. Where does any particular program keep config, among the 5 or 6 possibilities? DerekSmartymans posted:see it happen in a “we all use Windows here” thread lol since switching to linux, the fact that it keeps all config in 2 locations with easy, readable, backup-able, generally plain text files is pretty nice
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Sep 27, 2022 01:21
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Flipperwaldt posted:Say you're into music production software, you might well have to deal with a hundred installers for plugins, each initiated through some nasty proprietary piece of middleware that the developer hopes prevents piracy, that you're sure to have to log into their website for and have to download a downloader stub for to even be allowed to download the actual software with. Forget cleanly transferring presets you might have made in the past, asset folders, projects. Forget getting that set up in even a week and you're bound to lose some thing or another in the process, through no fault of your own. It's an absolute nightmare and I just gave up on a Windows 8 computer that I couldn't get upgraded to 10. I have ~180 VST and RTAS plugins that I use for audio engineering work and I keep all the installers nicely organized on an external hard drive with the required serial keys or offline registration files ready to go. this is such a specific niche that it really is on you to keep track of your poo poo. it's not reasonable to expect Microsoft to program the ability to flatten and reinstall Windows without messing with the protection on your VST plugins. you need to be ready to reinstall your whole poo poo at literally any given second if you have anything more than a passing interest in music production as far as I'm concerned. and if you have a collection of plugins so large where this is a concern for you....then there really isn't any question about it. also it really shouldn't take you a week lol. I use FL Studio and Pro Tools and I could have my entire setup reinstalled in maybe an hour or two. the whole middleware thing is 100% a non-issue because if I need to fully redownload my Izotope or Waves plugins, I make one folder for 32-bit plugins and one for 64-bit plugins and the automated installers will put everything in the right places, exactly where they need to go, with only the bare minimum of user intervention barnold fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 03:55
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As a non-techy PC user I think it's ridiculous that it's almost commonly accepted that it's somehow OK for Windows (whatever version) to crash or corrupt itself to the extent that doing a reinstall and/or rollback of the OS is necessary. That should not be a normal occurrence. Every time there's a Windows update I have anxiety poo poo's going to blow up. My systems running XP and Windows 7 were pretty darn stable, but that was probably because after a certain point, when they were running well, I locked them down to avoid system updates and driver changes, which is much more difficult now since Windows 10/11 just about crams that poo poo down your throat (even forced BIOS updates) whether you need it or not.
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Sep 27, 2022 05:16
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Number_6 posted:As a non-techy PC user I think it's ridiculous that it's almost commonly accepted that it's somehow OK for Windows (whatever version) to crash or corrupt itself to the extent that doing a reinstall and/or rollback of the OS is necessary. That should not be a normal occurrence. Every time there's a Windows update I have anxiety poo poo's going to blow up. As a techy PC user, if your Windows XP install was more stable than your Windows 10/11 install, then you were either very lucky or are very unlucky. If a Windows upgrade is causing you anxiety, something is wrong. As far as is being commonly accepted that the answer to some problems is to reinstall the OS, I think you may be misunderstanding. The reason a reinstall is often the answer is simply because it is easier than troubleshooting. It's not that troubleshooting has gotten more difficult, it's that reinstalling has gotten ridiculously easy. I'll note that what started this conversation was someone who has had the same Windows install for "over 15 years." Then you have people objecting to reinstalls because they incorrectly think they have to redownload all of their games over LTE. Or have created such a game of mousetrap for themselves that they cannot recreate an environment that they themselves consider critical to their workflows. If you work in tech you know that we've been battling over this concept for at least the past decade, if not longer. This concept of emphasizing things that are resilient to failure rather than trying to make things that never fail. This concept of ephemeral objects. This concept of cattle over pets. And guess what? The artisanal handcrafted stuff lost that battle. If your PC and workspace is in such a precarious position that the thought of applying Windows updates gives you anxiety, it's time to reevaluate, because that's not the way the tech world works these days and it's time to stop swimming upstream. Frankly, again, as someone who has been doing this professionally for 20 years, I'm usually reading this thread and shaking my head. That's not to discourage anyone from posting, sharing their opinions, or disagreeing with me. I'm just saying it's getting increasingly difficult to put myself in some (in my opinion) increasingly outdated shoes.
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Sep 27, 2022 06:13
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I have been delaying the major upgrades for a year to let other people iron out the file deletion bugs. So far it has seemed to work fine. The driver issue was fixable "easily enough" after digging a bit. I didn't even know windows loads a ton of legacy usb/rgb/whatever drivers which were still hanging around after uninstalling software ages ago. Maybe I can get this windows install to 20 years  I need a new backup software though. Something which just backups, does nothing else. I used Acronis true image, but it had bad drivers with no update available to them (tib.sys). Any suggestions?
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Sep 27, 2022 06:29
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Number_6 posted:As a non-techy PC user I think it's ridiculous that it's almost commonly accepted that it's somehow OK for Windows (whatever version) to crash or corrupt itself to the extent that doing a reinstall and/or rollback of the OS is necessary. That should not be a normal occurrence. Every time there's a Windows update I have anxiety poo poo's going to blow up. If this is your experience with Windows past Windows 7, the problem isn't the OS. Now, I do think you have a case about issues that wreck your files... But not the OS. e: I do think it's quite dumb that I feel like I need a Pro license so I can leverage GPO to actually control the update policy. I generally think it's a good idea to just force updates on users, because most people just won't do it and don't understand the trade offs they are making here, but part of this is that MS needs to make sure those updates are rock-loving-solid, and don't come with adware... MS isn't really fulfilling their end of this contract nearly as well as they once were. Canine Blues Arooo fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 06:40
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Some of the things I experienced with Win10 breaking the built-in UWP apps were loving mystifying and would have made a non-technical user say the whole OS was broken. I generally didn't care because the only built-in UWP app I used was calculator. So I replaced that with old calc.exe, removed most of the other stuff, and generally ignored the problems. Except for the one time it affected my taskbar. But for someone using the OS-provided apps if they start failing to open with zero feedback, and they don't know how to read event logs, to them that's "Windows". And that poo poo was impossible to fix in any rational way. Even for me, and I consider myself pretty drat good as this. edit: lmao I just looked at my posts in the 10 thread for when I was getting the worst UWP problems, and it turns out I did do a format & reinstall of 10 in 2019. Had completely forgotten about it. Guess that's how I fixed my problems. 
Klyith fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 14:35
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One of my reasons for upgrading to Win11 was that UWP was completely broken, and my graphics card config tool (for forcing anti aliasing in old games and such) had become UWP courtesy an update. Also I got multiple errors every single restart that resisted all efforts at resolution. I figured if an in-place upgrade made things worse I could just clean install. The upgrade fixed all my issues. At this point, this Windows install has operated continuously since late 2011, with additional drives containing detritus from an install another five or six years before that. I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I didn't have four Program Files folders.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:12
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Im with you man. I truck my installs along as far as possible. Went from like 4 intel systems to an AMD and then back to a 12th gen Intel. All works great but I do remove old drivers.
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Sep 28, 2022 01:33
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I know I don't have to, but I really kind of enjoy a periodic deep clean back to basics, so I do a fresh reinstall every few years.
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Sep 28, 2022 02:25
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I wish microsoft could prioritize the registry files needed for the operating system to run so windows wouldn't slow to a crawl after a few years of usage
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Sep 28, 2022 02:35
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I'm going to be building a secondary desktop after I transplant my primary desktop into a new case, and have been debating whether to install Windows 10 or 11 on it. I have a laptop with Windows 11 and it's fine, but it's also a touchscreen. Still dithering whether to put 11 on the new desktop or just stick with 10.
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Sep 29, 2022 23:42
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If you've already got one device with 11 and you're installing Windows fresh, I don't see why to not install 11 unless you have some major reason not to.
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Sep 29, 2022 23:49
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Internet Explorer posted:If you've already got one device with 11 and you're installing Windows fresh, I don't see why to not install 11 unless you have some major reason not to. That's kind of where I'm leaning. This is a personal machine, and for me Windows is mostly just a gaming OS, so the bloated taskbar won't be as much of an annoyance. My main desktop still has Windows 10 installed, as I am unaware of any real benefits to gaming to be had by going to Windows 11. Most of my computer time is spent in Linux, so all my personal desktops are dual-boots from the get-go.
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Sep 29, 2022 23:52
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Depends, newer Intel CPUs won't have their tasks scheduled correctly to take advantage of high efficiency/high performance cores on Windows 10. And the taskbar you can easily replace with StartAllBack.
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Sep 30, 2022 12:57
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Running Win11 Pro, Thinkpad with a dock. Why won't my computer connect to WiFi when it's also hardwired in? I want it to connect to both (networks are the same) so that when I rip the Thunderbolt cord out it doesn't have to also go acquire a lease and stuff. As it is I usually get a weird "connected but no Internet", and have to turn off the WiFi then turn it back on to make it work. This is while I'm docked, the WiFi is available to connect to:  and it says it should connect automatically:  I found some GPO settings about Windows being conservative about multiple connections to the same network; everything there is "Not Configured". I want it to connect to both automatically as available.
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Sep 30, 2022 15:02
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Is there some Lenovo or Intel software that is helpfully disabling the Wi-Fi when there's an ethernet cable plugged in?
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Sep 30, 2022 15:41
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yeah my mobo connects both at the same time. Check the power profile sertings
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Sep 30, 2022 16:07
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Thanks for that. I uninstalled all the Lenovo stuff, looked at my power plan (which is on Max Performance) and installed the drivers from Intel (vs Windows Update drivers). There's no "Windows may turn this off to save power" option even on the adapter properties. Still no change, but I can "force Connect" and I'm on both. Unfortunately, none of this persists through reboot.
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Sep 30, 2022 17:11
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Not connecting to both is standard Windows behaviour, not related to any software or driver.
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Sep 30, 2022 17:26
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Criss-cross posted:Not connecting to both is standard Windows behaviour, not related to any software or driver. I'm not sure because I had to
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Sep 30, 2022 18:01
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Criss-cross posted:Depends, newer Intel CPUs won't have their tasks scheduled correctly to take advantage of high efficiency/high performance cores on Windows 10. This is an AMD processor. And I'm aware of StartAllBack and similar options, but over the years I've also become averse to doing too much customization on my machines. It makes it easier to have my personal machines have uniform interfaces, and makes it easier when I have to use computers I don't control (like at work). Still, I might consider StartAllBack or another one I found that looks promising that I can't recall the name of right now.
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Sep 30, 2022 19:06
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BoosterDuck posted:I wish microsoft could prioritize the registry files needed for the operating system to run so windows wouldn't slow to a crawl after a few years of usage That hasn't been true at least since XP if ever.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:24
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Registry cleaners are like healing crystals.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:33
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I'm going to be building a secondary desktop after I transplant my primary desktop into a new case, and have been debating whether to install Windows 10 or 11 on it. I have a laptop with Windows 11 and it's fine, but it's also a touchscreen. Still dithering whether to put 11 on the new desktop or just stick with 10. Question answered, but is there anything specific that would make you stick with 10?
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Sep 30, 2022 20:37
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BoosterDuck posted:I wish microsoft could prioritize the registry files needed for the operating system to run so windows wouldn't slow to a crawl after a few years of usage Last time I did a truly fresh install of Windows was when I bought an 840 EVO, so...9 years ago? It's still very snappy. This idea that 'Registry makes Windows Slow' is not true today, hasn't been true for very long time, and might have never been true.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:47
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Every Windows feature update is basically a fresh install, so you get a clean install twice a year or so.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:52
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If it was ever true, I'd honestly blame software developers before Microsoft. I've seen some heinous poo poo. The old PC game Black and White used it for saves. Not, like, the path where the saves are stored; the actual save data was in the registry.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:53
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Blue Footed Booby posted:If it was ever true, I'd honestly blame software developers before Microsoft. I've seen some heinous poo poo. The old PC game Black and White used it for saves. Not, like, the path where the saves are stored; the actual save data was in the registry. Yeah, I think MS was trying to get developers to use it like that for some reason. Diablo saved into the registry, too.
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Sep 30, 2022 20:56
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Criss-cross posted:Not connecting to both is standard Windows behaviour, not related to any software or driver. That seems wrong based on what I’ve seen. Either way is there a way to force it to connect when I check Connect Automatically?
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Sep 30, 2022 21:00
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WattsvilleBlues posted:Question answered, but is there anything specific that would make you stick with 10? On the new desktop? Mostly familiarity and not getting annoyed by regressions on those occasions I was using it for something other than gaming. And that I like having uniformity between all my machines. Windows 11 on my laptop seems pretty much fine, though, hence the dithering.
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Sep 30, 2022 21:02
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Criss-cross posted:Not connecting to both is standard Windows behaviour, not related to any software or driver. I'm not a networking guru, but having two connections to the same network on the same machine seems like a weird and inadvisable thing to do anyway. So you have the same hardware getting two different IPs on the same network? Unless you were mapping one connection to a VM and the other to the host I have a hard time seeing how it would make sense in terms of network topology.
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Sep 30, 2022 21:06
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how does the Win11 thread manage to attract so many goons who evidently have not used windows since ME lol registry files?? come on
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Oct 1, 2022 18:43
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barnold posted:how does the Win11 thread manage to attract so many goons who evidently have not used windows since ME lol registry files?? come on So the registry is perfect and never gets busted or mis-configured now? News to me. Sometimes it happens -- part of my UWP dumpster fire in 2019 was apps being denied DCOM connections, which is poo poo that's configured in the registry. No clue if something elsewhere was also broken, but my event log was spammed to gently caress with DCOM poo poo. Like, registry cleaners are snake oil, and are super unlikely to fix any problems. Particularly not problems that MS themselves can't fix. But the registry still can and does get crapped up in persistent ways that make windows fail. It just doesn't happen 100% of the time like it used to.
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Oct 1, 2022 21:18
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Trueish, the dcom errors I had were preventing clean shutdowns but other than that they were more annoying than install breaking. Still a nice new install feels good man.
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Oct 1, 2022 21:25
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Klyith posted:So the registry is perfect and never gets busted or mis-configured now? News to me. Sometimes it happens -- part of my UWP dumpster fire in 2019 was apps being denied DCOM connections, which is poo poo that's configured in the registry. No clue if something elsewhere was also broken, but my event log was spammed to gently caress with DCOM poo poo. UWP is the shitbag here. Don't use UWP for loving anything (and thank god it's dead in the water).
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Oct 1, 2022 21:29
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Klyith posted:So the registry is perfect and never gets busted or mis-configured now? News to me. Sometimes it happens -- part of my UWP dumpster fire in 2019 was apps being denied DCOM connections, which is poo poo that's configured in the registry. No clue if something elsewhere was also broken, but my event log was spammed to gently caress with DCOM poo poo. The UWP crap would be breaking even if they used .ini/.json files. It's enterprisey over-engineered mess.
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Oct 1, 2022 22:48
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It's not 'THE REGISTRY!!11' that is the issue. It's stupid loving programs setting poo poo wrong in said file. It doesn't have a mind of its own you know.
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Oct 2, 2022 03:13
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