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Sydney Bottocks posted:One thing that I just thought of that they could potentially do, would be to start slowly outsourcing their TV production to an outside production company. Like start with NXT, then gradually phase Dunn out more and more until the external company is handling most of the production duties. That would give them a reason to eventually cut Dunn loose (as they would have effectively eliminated his position) and just have someone in a position as the executive liaison between WWE and whatever company. Is it really so loving hard for wrestling shows to literally just use the hard cam unless the wrestlers start doing poo poo outside the ring? WWE is real bad about it cutting on literally every little thing and jumping from one camera to one on the complete opposite side, and AEW has been steadily getting worse with jumping around the ring on every move. edit: I would pay for a pure hard cam stream. Like easily twenty dollars a month for the stream to be literally nothing but like a tiny picture in picture in the top right that shows the fite stream or what ever and the center is just hardcam the entire time, wouldn't even matter if they blacked it out for setup or during promos or whatever. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 21:06
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Dunn's been around a long time, but the super-choppy editing and camera-jiggling hasn't. When did that begin in earnest? I stopped watching long before that, I think.
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Sep 27, 2022 21:14
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Halloween Jack posted:Dunn's been around a long time, but the super-choppy editing and camera-jiggling hasn't. When did that begin in earnest? I stopped watching long before that, I think. If I remember correctly, it started as a reaction to the switch to HD. As the footage becomes clearer it gets easier to tell that the hits are all soft (especially with the WWE style being pretty soft that way in the first place), so they started overcorrecting with camera cuts. And then it devolved into self-parody because WWE's weird and controlled by people with no taste.
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Sep 27, 2022 22:13
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MrBling posted:also, it wasn't quite wasted because Jerry Lynn also got to use the song. I feel like Lynn's enough of a metalhead that coming out to Boston probably physically hurt him
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Sep 27, 2022 23:12
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Defenestrategy posted:Is it really so loving hard for wrestling shows to literally just use the hard cam unless the wrestlers start doing poo poo outside the ring? WWE is real bad about it cutting on literally every little thing and jumping from one camera to one on the complete opposite side, and AEW has been steadily getting worse with jumping around the ring on every move. This isn't anything new, World Class started doing the multiple camera around the ring stuff back in the 1980s, and other promotions followed their lead. Done correctly, it gives a "real sports" feel to the action in the ring. Done incorrectly, you get whatever it is Dunn is doing in WWE.
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Sep 28, 2022 00:17
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New Japan in Japan uses multi cam and its some of the best filmed wrestling out there. Sadly in the US the video is indy level at best
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Sep 28, 2022 00:21
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Nystral posted:As a publicly traded company it doesn’t matter how much stock Dunn owns. They fire him tomorrow and what? He sells? He’d be one of thousands, and if it was enough to move the stock price the dip would be normalized over time. When you are dedicated to your art like Kevin Dunn it doesn't feel like work. You are just creating something, pouring your soul on screen. Not many will be able to offer that.
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Sep 28, 2022 02:00
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SatoshiMiwa posted:New Japan in Japan uses multi cam and its some of the best filmed wrestling out there. Sadly in the US the video is indy level at best one criticism I've been reading about New Japan is while their camera direction is one of the best in the world, the actual cameras/stream quality kinda blow, at least for a promotion that's supposed to be #1 domestically? I honestly can't tell though.
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Sep 28, 2022 02:28
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Lily Catts posted:one criticism I've been reading about New Japan is while their camera direction is one of the best in the world, the actual cameras/stream quality kinda blow, at least for a promotion that's supposed to be #1 domestically? I honestly can't tell though. Stream quality is actually pretty bad. Especially considering Noah has been filming in 4k more recently.
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Sep 28, 2022 02:31
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NJPW streams look fine to me except when they do US shows. Those are dogshit every time.
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Sep 28, 2022 02:36
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Lily Catts posted:one criticism I've been reading about New Japan is while their camera direction is one of the best in the world, the actual cameras/stream quality kinda blow, at least for a promotion that's supposed to be #1 domestically? I honestly can't tell though. Looks fine to me when I watch on njpwworld. I never get buffering or pixelation issues.
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Sep 28, 2022 03:37
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Sydney Bottocks posted:One thing that I just thought of that they could potentially do, would be to start slowly outsourcing their TV production to an outside production company. Like start with NXT, then gradually phase Dunn out more and more until the external company is handling most of the production duties. That would give them a reason to eventually cut Dunn loose (as they would have effectively eliminated his position) and just have someone in a position as the executive liaison between WWE and whatever company. Yeah, I'm not sure about outsourcing their production, unless it's to a crew that is used to actually doing wrestling. Using a real sport example, living in NZ, I watch a shitload of rugby union. Super Rugby, Super Rugby Aupiki, the mid-year test matches, the National Provincial Championship, the Farah Palmer Cup, the Autumn tests. Occasionally, my beloved All Blacks will go to areas where rugby isn't often broadcast, like the US, where there are crews working that just lack experience in filming the sport. The end result is that there are just a bunch of small, but significant differences that hurts the viewing experience. It's stuff like shot selection, the edits used, as well as things that would come part and parcel with familiarity with the sport, like how high kicks are shot. It's just utterly jarring, when the stuff you'd take for granted in a broadcast is just... not there.
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Sep 28, 2022 04:41
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Lily Catts posted:one criticism I've been reading about New Japan is while their camera direction is one of the best in the world, the actual cameras/stream quality kinda blow, at least for a promotion that's supposed to be #1 domestically? I honestly can't tell though. I've started noticing it a lot because I'll watch their Abema shows on Abema and the quality is so much better than NJPW World. It's the actual stream quality on NJPW World that sucks. I think it tops out at 480p lol. The cameras are fine.
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Sep 28, 2022 05:16
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It's wild to me in wrestling in general how much the way television in general has changed the way it presents itself since even 10 or 20 years ago but wrestling still has the same basic model of "a few shows culminating at a big show" since the early 1900s. Wrestling always seems like it's behind the times. I think it adds to the quaintness.
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Sep 28, 2022 06:59
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Has the "cut to commercials in the middle of a match" always been a thing or is there a specific point in time they started doing that? I was talking to my friend today about how crazy it is we've gotten to the point at not blinking twice in having to watch ads while there's a match going on. It's like them playing ads during the plays in football.
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Sep 28, 2022 07:02
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Kvlt! posted:Has the "cut to commercials in the middle of a match" always been a thing or is there a specific point in time they started doing that? I was talking to my friend today about how crazy it is we've gotten to the point at not blinking twice in having to watch ads while there's a match going on. It's like them playing ads during the plays in football. I'm rewatching old Nitros now and WCW does it quite a bit. I feel like maybe even more than WWE does. I'm not sure about WWE(F) in this time period.
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Sep 28, 2022 07:10
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:I'm rewatching old Nitros now and WCW does it quite a bit. I feel like maybe even more than WWE does. I'm not sure about WWE(F) in this time period. Oh yeah it's def been a thing my whole life, I'm just curious if it was kinda always common or there was a specific point where it started happening
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Sep 28, 2022 07:14
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My pure conjecture guess is to look around the start of live broadcasting. If it is happening beforehand I have no loving clue as to its origin point, but afterward I could see it being a function of doing a live broadcast and the Monday Night War leading to an innovation in ratings chasing.
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Sep 28, 2022 07:43
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karmicknight posted:My pure conjecture guess is to look around the start of live broadcasting. If it is happening beforehand I have no loving clue as to its origin point, but afterward I could see it being a function of doing a live broadcast and the Monday Night War leading to an innovation in ratings chasing. Doing some digging and research, I've come to the conclusion it's pretty much always been a thing in WWE/F/WCW. One explanation I heard is that during the Attitude era matches were often short enough not to be cut during commercials, leading some people to think it was introduced later than it was.
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Sep 28, 2022 12:05
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WCW used to cut to commercials in the middle of a match, but you could pay $5 a month for Backstage Blast to be able to see those restholds on the internet.
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Sep 28, 2022 12:57
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Did anyone ever call the WCW hotline? What kind of stuff would they actually tell you?
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Sep 28, 2022 14:39
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Wwf used to make it a point that they wouldn’t cut to commercial during a match as a way to take a shot at WCW.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:47
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They definitely cut to commercial in the middle of matches on the various versions of the Main Event on NBC, and I'm pretty sure they did on Prime Time, too.
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Sep 29, 2022 04:00
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Sydney Bottocks posted:This isn't anything new, World Class started doing the multiple camera around the ring stuff back in the 1980s, and other promotions followed their lead. Done correctly, it gives a "real sports" feel to the action in the ring. Done incorrectly, you get whatever it is Dunn is doing in WWE. Yeah, I've heard how dynamic World Class' stuff was considered at the time, thanks to the guy they called 'Video Bob.'
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Sep 29, 2022 04:04
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Did WWF do any notable face vs. face feuds before Hogan/Warrior? I recall the concept of a face challenging another face being portrayed as tragic, or itself part of a heel turn storyline (see Andre essentially turning heel because he had the audacity to challenge a fellow good guy for the belt).davidbix posted:And BTW, the clear up a popular misconception: He's not the director and never has been. On top of his executive office role and his executive producer role, he functions as the line producer during TV shoots. This leads me to a follow-up question... According to Shawn Michaels' retirement speech, a "red haired kid named Adam" was responsible for the aforementioned excellent video packages. Would that have been the kid from that "George & Adam" duo that would show up in random segments during the New Generation? Doesn't seem too implausible that some A/V intern could have been pulled out for skits and commercials as he started to hone his craft.
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Sep 29, 2022 05:51
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Are George and Adam the superfans from 1997 that pissed their pants at the Slammies?
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Sep 29, 2022 11:58
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Minidust posted:Did WWF do any notable face vs. face feuds before Hogan/Warrior? I recall the concept of a face challenging another face being portrayed as tragic, or itself part of a heel turn storyline (see Andre essentially turning heel because he had the audacity to challenge a fellow good guy for the belt). I don't recall any feuds, but there's a few face vs. face confrontations that come to mind. In the early-to-mid-80s (possibly before Vince Jr. took over), there was a battle royal that ended with two faces in the ring. One decided to just eliminate himself as a solid. Then during the Wrestling Classic tournament, they had Ricky Steamboat vs. Davey Boy Smith. It was an extremely short match (much like the rest of the card) and ended because Davey got crotched on the ropes and they treated it as a match-ending groin injury with Ricky there to check on him and show compassion.
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Sep 29, 2022 14:00
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Wasn't there also a Tito Santana match in the Classic that was face v face and it got heated outside the ring and went to a DCOR?
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Sep 29, 2022 14:28
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Minidust posted:Did WWF do any notable face vs. face feuds before Hogan/Warrior? I recall the concept of a face challenging another face being portrayed as tragic, or itself part of a heel turn storyline (see Andre essentially turning heel because he had the audacity to challenge a fellow good guy for the belt). Back in the ancient past when it was still called the WWWF, Vince Sr., booked a mini feud between then-champion Pedro Morales and former champion Bruno Sammartino, both hugely over babyfaces, that started with both guys being blinded by salt thrown by Mr. Fuji during a tag match and accidentally attacking each other. It culminated in a match at Shea Stadium that went to a 75-minute draw, with neither guy turning heel (though Sammartino reportedly did get booed by the crowd, probably because he was wrestling less often by that time) and both of them hugging it out at the end.
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Sep 29, 2022 14:39
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Nova/Simon Dean used to be referred to as the most ripped off wrestler in the business by Joey Styles. Whenever Nova would come up with a new move, somebody would steal it and use it on Raw or Nitro. I've seen references on this forum that Nova himself was using the moves that he'd seen used in Japan. What moves was he stealing? From New Japan or All Japan or elsewhere? Also I guess I'm wondering who was stealing "Nova"'s moves on Monday Nights? Kanyon?
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Sep 29, 2022 14:53
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Kosmo Gallion posted:Nova/Simon Dean used to be referred to as the most ripped off wrestler in the business by Joey Styles. Whenever Nova would come up with a new move, somebody would steal it and use it on Raw or Nitro. I've seen references on this forum that Nova himself was using the moves that he'd seen used in Japan. For that time frame, it's 99% likely that he was using Joshi moves.
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Sep 29, 2022 15:09
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Kosmo Gallion posted:Nova/Simon Dean used to be referred to as the most ripped off wrestler in the business by Joey Styles. Whenever Nova would come up with a new move, somebody would steal it and use it on Raw or Nitro. I've seen references on this forum that Nova himself was using the moves that he'd seen used in Japan. I only remember him using the Air Raid Crash, which was a Mariko Yoshida move, so yeah likely joshi wrestlers.
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Sep 29, 2022 15:24
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I saw that the erstwhile Big Cass is in AEW now. Did he clean up (/ his act)? Didn't he get booted from the fed for ego reasons?
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Oct 1, 2022 04:07
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getting his enzo surgically removed helped a lot, and he sobered up after leaving the wwe.
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Oct 1, 2022 04:34
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Basic Chunnel posted:I saw that the erstwhile Big Cass is in AEW now. Did he clean up (/ his act)? Didn't he get booted from the fed for ego reasons? He cleaned up and is very well liked.
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Oct 1, 2022 04:36
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Cass was by his admission in a real bad place mentally, he's since apparently gotten better
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Oct 1, 2022 04:58
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I'd drink too if I had to hang around Nzo every loving day
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Oct 1, 2022 06:56
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they call him Big Bill now and again, and I can't help but think he should redub this amazing advert https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sZuN0xXWLc
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Oct 1, 2022 07:17
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He had a pretty good hoss stint in Impact and feuded with Moose, then he showed up during the MJF/Wardlow feud to give Wardlow a big dude that he couldn't just manhandle. He's pretty fun to watch now. Also, nZo's name is "Real 1" now because apparently MLW couldn't avoid a copyright C&D. 
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Oct 1, 2022 10:14
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the best part is that every other member of the stable he is in is driven by some self-interested, tangible competitive goal, but allegedly his motivation is that he just doesn't get enough hugs.
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Oct 1, 2022 16:50
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