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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:I'd probably focus on getting CL-16 though over 3600. Por que no los dos? -22% $135.99 CORSAIR Vengeance RGB RT 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 3600 (PC4-28800) C16 1.35V Desktop Memory https://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-Veng...deae8f9840&th=1
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Sep 29, 2022 14:54
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spunkshui posted:Por que no los dos? The CL18 Vengeance version is only $115 on Newegg right now: https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236708
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Sep 29, 2022 14:56
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Twerk from Home posted:I might just be confusing myself, I've always set RAM timings / voltages manually before rather than using XMP, but I'm seeing a whole lot of 12600k and 12900K owners dealing with crashes or outright failure to boot. I also wonder if the memory they're using is on the motherboard QVL list, or what else is going on, but this looks pretty wild, especially because people have been recommending against DDR4-3200 for AMD Zen 3 processors and nudging people to DDR4-3600 to 4000: a whole lot of that seems to be early bios issues & not exclusive to ddr4 at all, plenty of complaints about ddr5 too. also a lot seem to be related to gigabyte boards - i know they had a ton of other problems with their alder lake boards so this might be another issue idk amd has long had better support for memory overclocking than intel & has generally benefitted more from it too. it's not really that big of a deal that the 12400 is only guaranteed to support 3200 mhz but the 5600 can do 3600 & higher fine
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Sep 29, 2022 15:00
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Twerk from Home posted:I might just be confusing myself, I've always set RAM timings / voltages manually before rather than using XMP, but I'm seeing a whole lot of 12600k and 12900K owners dealing with crashes or outright failure to boot. I also wonder if the memory they're using is on the motherboard QVL list, or what else is going on, but this looks pretty wild, especially because people have been recommending against DDR4-3200 for AMD Zen 3 processors and nudging people to DDR4-3600 to 4000: I'm sorry, but this seems like a terrible way to gauge the general reliability and stability of a CPU. Google for stability problems for any CPU generation from both AMD and Intel, and you will get a lot of results because a lot of people build computers and some percentage of them will always run into issues and post on the internet for help. You are scaring yourself away from making a sensible purchasing decision when we're telling you that none of us have witnessed any such stability issues. edit: And yes, some early alder lake bios versions were bad, especially Gigabyte. They had myriad issues with both DDR4 and DDR5 overclocking.
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Sep 29, 2022 15:02
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I'm sorry, but this seems like a terrible way to gauge the general reliability and stability of a CPU. Google for stability problems for any CPU generation from both AMD and Intel, and you will get a lot of results because a lot of people build computers and some percentage of them will always run into issues and post on the internet for help. You are scaring yourself away from making a sensible purchasing decision when we're telling you that none of us have witnessed any such stability issues. Thanks, this helps. I'm just gun-shy because things have changed so much since the last time I did a clean build.
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Sep 29, 2022 15:03
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change my name posted:The CL18 Vengeance version is only $115 on Newegg right now: https://www.newegg.com/corsair-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820236708 Yeah because its C18, the C18 on amazon is also $119.99 But C16 is better and used to make it cost a lot more back in the day. Worth looking into C16 for $15-$20 more
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Sep 29, 2022 15:04
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Twerk from Home posted:I might just be confusing myself, I've always set RAM timings / voltages manually before rather than using XMP, but I'm seeing a whole lot of 12600k and 12900K owners dealing with crashes or outright failure to boot. I also wonder if the memory they're using is on the motherboard QVL list, or what else is going on, but this looks pretty wild, especially because people have been recommending against DDR4-3200 for AMD Zen 3 processors and nudging people to DDR4-3600 to 4000: As said above, this is early Alderlake, and early Alderlake had exceptionally bad issues with XMP, with Gigabyte being the worst offender. This was mostly resolved, and any posts you find that are recent are likely to be un-updated BIOS or gigabyte boards. spunkshui posted:Por que no los dos? Cost wise, 3200Mhz CL-16 on the link I posted is $79 for 2x16gb (compared to your $135 3600Mhz CL-16 2x16gb). Based on what's been posted and the budget of the machine, I'd spend the $80 over the $135 (and I'd definitely get 3200Mhz CL-16 over 3600Mhz CL-18 at a comparable price). That $55 could be used to move to a better GPU, or even a better CPU. If we were talking $10-$15 sure, but at $55 I just don't see the value add.
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Sep 29, 2022 15:26
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MarcusSA posted:Honestly I’d suggest getting the i5 13th gen or waiting a bit for more benchmarks to come out because on paper it seems like it should be a pretty decent boost over the 12th gen you have there. It’s about $100(ish) more though. I've seen a couple of posts like this recently and I wanted to point out that for purely gaming CPU generational gains are barely perceptible and all of the metrics designed to show the difference are arbitrary when it comes to actual real world use cases. Most CPUs will handle high settings 1080p with a 144hz monitor, there's no point in waiting for 13th gen Intel or Zen 4, get whatever is best value right now.
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Sep 29, 2022 15:27
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Butterfly Valley posted:I've seen a couple of posts like this recently and I wanted to point out that for purely gaming CPU generational gains are barely perceptible and all of the metrics designed to show the difference are arbitrary when it comes to actual real world use cases. Most CPUs will handle high settings 1080p with a 144hz monitor, there's no point in waiting for 13th gen Intel or Zen 4, get whatever is best value right now. This is not true? 3600x > 5600x had quite the large jump in performance, and MSRP was justified in the % increase. This is not a statement you can make until we get independent benchmarks on 13th gen. IMO anyone considering an intel chip should be waiting till benchmarks unless they find an insane deal or need a build right this second. Edit: Also to add, you're quantifying right now. Most users will use a CPU for +/- 5 years or so. A generational CPU difference could make all the difference between an extra year with the chip, or a playable game in 5 years vs an unplayable. Just for waiting an extra month. Also see at 7700k users wrt Windows 11. Pilfered Pallbearers fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Sep 29, 2022 |
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Sep 29, 2022 15:29
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:This is not true? Sorry I should have made clear my post was more specifically targetted at OP, who was looking at a build with a 12400f and a 6700xt for playing CS:GO and Apex and other non-demanding titles on a 1080p 144hz monitor. I don't think a 13th gen CPU will make any difference for them. I thought Raptor Lake wasn't coming out for a few months though so yeah OK I can see the argument for waiting, although if the equivalent to the 12400f is gonna be $100 more I wouldn't personally consider that worth it, although again sure it might buy you some extra longevity.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:02
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I'm planning to build a new PC within the next half a year capable of reaching 60+ FPS at 4K. With GPU I'm still waiting for the RDNA 3 lineup to drop before deciding but with CPU would I be correct in assuming that even Ryzen 5000 would do the job? 7000 looks great and all, and I would be using the computer as a workstation, too, but seems like being railroaded into DDR5 right now is increasing the price too much, comparably.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:06
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lordfrikk posted:I'm planning to build a new PC within the next half a year capable of reaching 60+ FPS at 4K. With GPU I'm still waiting for the RDNA 3 lineup to drop before deciding but with CPU would I be correct in assuming that even Ryzen 5000 would do the job? 7000 looks great and all, and I would be using the computer as a workstation, too, but seems like being railroaded into DDR5 right now is increasing the price too much, comparably. Don’t waste your time until you’re ready to pull the trigger. Things change too much and 6 months is a long time. You’d need to be more specific about what workstation tasks are needed. Best way to do this is start with a specific budget and build out from there. DDR5 is likely going to be the ideal, especially in 6 months.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:09
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lordfrikk posted:I'm planning to build a new PC within the next half a year capable of reaching 60+ FPS at 4K. With GPU I'm still waiting for the RDNA 3 lineup to drop before deciding but with CPU would I be correct in assuming that even Ryzen 5000 would do the job? 7000 looks great and all, and I would be using the computer as a workstation, too, but seems like being railroaded into DDR5 right now is increasing the price too much, comparably. Your price is going to be huge enough as it is if you're buying a 4080/RDNA 3 equivalent, which is what you need to be aiming for for 4k 60+ fps, that the DDR4/5 cost difference should be the least of your concerns. Also I thought at least in the US DDR5 was rapidly dropping to sensible prices anyway? With the kind of money you'll be spending on this machine it doesn't make any sense to go with a DDR4 build IMO. You are correct though that at that resolution the CPU is much less important and you're totally GPU bound at that point.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:11
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Butterfly Valley posted:although again sure it might buy you some extra longevity. This was kinda my point really. I think spending an extra $100 for a cpu that is probably going to last you another 5 years is worth it. Especially since it comes with ddr 5 support among other things. I think unless you are planning an ultra budget model it’s probably worth it to consider the newer CPUs.
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Sep 29, 2022 16:28
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:As said above, this is early Alderlake, and early Alderlake had exceptionally bad issues with XMP, with Gigabyte being the worst offender. And of course I can’t argue against an extra $55 to put towards the CPU or the GPU because that will have a bigger impact. Good sales all over now since everyone is waiting. Remember when you literally couldn’t buy CPUs and GPUs? This is way better 
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Sep 29, 2022 16:53
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Butterfly Valley posted:I've seen a couple of posts like this recently and I wanted to point out that for purely gaming CPU generational gains are barely perceptible and all of the metrics designed to show the difference are arbitrary when it comes to actual real world use cases. Most CPUs will handle high settings 1080p with a 144hz monitor, there's no point in waiting for 13th gen Intel or Zen 4, get whatever is best value right now. I'd say the current consideration I'm making when selecting between the 3 (soon to be 4) available platforms is honestly TDP. How much the system costs electrically seems a lot more important since we're in an era where performance is relatively flat. You can buy a 12400F and run pretty much anything you want on it as long as the gpu has the horsepower, and you're like 1080/1440 from what I understand. That cpu is also like $100. To some extent with Ryzen there's some attraction to buying a system on a socket you might upgrade down the line (saves you mobo costs) but there's no guarantee when the new chips come out that newer mobos on the same standard won't have newly desireable features right? Maybe some of the Zen 3 early adopters in the thread can comment, did you end up wanting a new X570/A520 series board when you upgraded to a 5800x3d or 5900 or whatever or were you good to go? As someone running a system that is still on DDR3 I feel like buying the end of life DDR4 will just put me in the same situation where upgrades are not as viable down the line. New 7000 series Ryzen boards are expensive but having the ability to drop in a new chip and more/newer ram 3-4 years down the line could extend system life if not at least give you a useful refresh at a later date. With CPU bottlenecks being relatively rare these days I think that's the best way to consider it, how much do you want to spend now/in the next few years and how much upgradability do you want out of what you're using. Highend DDR4/12th gen/5000 series cpus will be just fine for many years to come, especially since game demands are a lagging indicator of where the market is at computing wise. The majority of game devs don't make games that most systems can't run. Current consoles are also still using older/relatively less powerful hardware than 30series gpus can provide much less 40 50 whatever the future holds. CatelynIsAZombie fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Sep 29, 2022 |
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Sep 29, 2022 18:34
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CatelynIsAZombie posted:I'd say the current consideration I'm making when selecting between the 3 (soon to be 4) available platforms is honestly TDP. How much the system costs electrically seems a lot more important since we're in an era where performance is relatively flat. You can buy a 12400F and run pretty much anything you want on it as long as the gpu has the horsepower, and you're like 1080/1440 from what I understand. That cpu is also like $100. You will be bottlenecked at 1080p on a 12400, on current games. So buying a 12400 with the intent to not be bottlenecked for 5 years at 1080p is absolutely not realistic.
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Sep 29, 2022 19:21
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CatelynIsAZombie posted:To some extent with Ryzen there's some attraction to buying a system on a socket you might upgrade down the line (saves you mobo costs) but there's no guarantee when the new chips come out that newer mobos on the same standard won't have newly desireable features right? Maybe some of the Zen 3 early adopters in the thread can comment, did you end up wanting a new X570/A520 series board when you upgraded to a 5800x3d or 5900 or whatever or were you good to go? I built around an X570 board in 2020 and started with a 3600X, then upgraded to a 5800X3D this year. One reason I went with the board was so that I could do upgrades down the road, which I've done. I'm transplanting it into a new case and will upgrade the RAM to 32GB 3600 C16 at the same time. Since I've had the board it's gone from a 1060 6GB to a 2070 Super to a 3080 12GB as GPU.
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Sep 29, 2022 19:50
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I built around an X570 board in 2020 and started with a 3600X, then upgraded to a 5800X3D this year. One reason I went with the board was so that I could do upgrades down the road, which I've done. I'm transplanting it into a new case and will upgrade the RAM to 32GB 3600 C16 at the same time. Since I've had the board it's gone from a 1060 6GB to a 2070 Super to a 3080 12GB as GPU. Gpu upgrading is of course a thing on basically any motherboard. My first gen i7 mobo (1366) socket started on an old 7950gx2 then a gtx 670 and ended on a 1070. Thats like a decade of GPUs history all on my 4gz all core OC i7 950. The 9600k started with a 1070 and now a 3080 Ti. Its great only having to buy some of the system at a time.
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Sep 29, 2022 20:29
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Do I have a broken sensor on my new motherboard that is causing thermal throttling even with CPU temps at 30c? All cores throttle down to .4ghz until I nudge the case and then it stops. Could it be an issue with the cooler or VRM? I've reseated it a few times and nothing changes. Build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6vLw3y  
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Sep 29, 2022 22:20
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err posted:Do I have a broken sensor on my new motherboard that is causing thermal throttling even with CPU temps at 30c? All cores throttle down to .4ghz until I nudge the case and then it stops. Could it be an issue with the cooler or VRM? I've reseated it a few times and nothing changes. Build: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6vLw3y Usually once the prochot flag triggers the CPU will throttle until you power down. It usually assumes a failed cooler of some kind. It could be a bad sensor on your motherboard although your max speeds show as hitting just shy of 5Ghz so it was working normally at some point. I don't see a max temp on there, could it have legitimately hit 99C at any point? Oh I see this is on Intel, my R7-1700 Ryzen would keep throttling until I rebooted unless I went into Ryzen Master and turned off prochot. Turned out to be a bad motherboard for me where it would just trigger it sometimes for no reason. Biostar will never not be garbage.
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Sep 29, 2022 23:41
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Rexxed posted:Usually once the prochot flag triggers the CPU will throttle until you power down. It usually assumes a failed cooler of some kind. It could be a bad sensor on your motherboard although your max speeds show as hitting just shy of 5Ghz so it was working normally at some point. I don't see a max temp on there, could it have legitimately hit 99C at any point? It just happens randomly and can happen while idle or under load and runs normally 95% of the time with good temperatures and never passes 70c. I've seen a few people disable prochot with similar issues but I think that's dangerous? Just don't understand why it unthrottles if I lightly touch the case. Probably going to buy a new mobo from Amazon and return it if it isn't the issue. After a 5 hour gaming/idle session where it throttled several times:  err fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 29, 2022 23:55
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I built around an X570 board in 2020 and started with a 3600X, then upgraded to a 5800X3D this year. One reason I went with the board was so that I could do upgrades down the road, which I've done. I'm transplanting it into a new case and will upgrade the RAM to 32GB 3600 C16 at the same time. Since I've had the board it's gone from a 1060 6GB to a 2070 Super to a 3080 12GB as GPU. Just for the sake of follow-up, I got around to doing this tonight and it took forever but seems to have gone well. Haven't done a lot of testing but the machine feels snappier, which I didn't expect. The Corsair 5000D Airflow case is huge, but even then cable management was a pain in the rear end. I'll do the build in the old case with my old 3600X on a new B550 board later, but at least it should be faster and easier than this was. I'm starting to think I don't really need 4 SATA drives in addition to 2 NVME drives...
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Sep 30, 2022 07:53
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:You will be bottlenecked at 1080p on a 12400, on current games. So buying a 12400 with the intent to not be bottlenecked for 5 years at 1080p is absolutely not realistic. Really? I'm not OP but I have an 11400f and have been waiting for the 6700xt to drop in price to get that, but are you saying it's going to bottleneck already at 1080p? Would a 6600 match better and I just play on mid range at 1080p for a couple years?
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Sep 30, 2022 09:18
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you will bottleneck at an impractically high framerate in most titles fwiw. it's really more a statement on 1080p being increasingly a CPU dependent resolution
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Sep 30, 2022 09:22
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boofhead posted:Really? I'm not OP but I have an 11400f and have been waiting for the 6700xt to drop in price to get that, but are you saying it's going to bottleneck already at 1080p? Would a 6600 match better and I just play on mid range at 1080p for a couple years? if you're still waiting for the 6700XT to drop in price when it's already below MSRP you should probably just wait for the mid-range RDNA3 chips that are likely coming early next year (unless the RDNA3 high-end next month turns out to be about as stupid as Nvidia's) but 6700XT/11400F isn't a stupid combination or anything, it should do what you want fine
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Sep 30, 2022 10:09
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Based on my experience with a similar cpu/gpu combo, you'll occasionally get bottlenecked at less extreme framerates (depending on the game and what's happening), but I don't think it's a bad pairing. But I'd look over some benchmarks to see what you could expect out of each tier. A 6600 is quite a bit weaker, but also a hell of a lot cheaper than a 6700XT atm. (plus yeah, since you're not in a hurry, you'll get to see what RDNA3 has to offer and how much it'll affect RDNA2 prices) 
Rinkles fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 10:13
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Hmm those are fair points.. Here in Germany the 6700 XTs are still going for like 460-530 euros ($USD 450-520) whereas there's a 6600 on sale now for 260 euros ($USD 255).. I was hoping to wait and buy a card that would last me a few years without thinking about it again, but then again I don't really do much high end gaming anyway At that price per performance comparison, and given that I just do mid-range gaming anyway, I'm really contemplating just buying the 6600 and being done with it for a couple years. It'll keep me in the game, so to speak, without being such a hit to the wallet that a future CPU/mobo/GPU upgrade would be unthinkable in the next 4 years e: current GPU is a RX 470, for reference, so either way the 6600 would be a big jump
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Sep 30, 2022 10:26
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:You will be bottlenecked at 1080p on a 12400, on current games. So buying a 12400 with the intent to not be bottlenecked for 5 years at 1080p is absolutely not realistic. boofhead posted:Really? I'm not OP but I have an 11400f and have been waiting for the 6700xt to drop in price to get that, but are you saying it's going to bottleneck already at 1080p? Would a 6600 match better and I just play on mid range at 1080p for a couple years? On modern, graphically intensive games the GPU is still the bottleneck at 1080p, and on less intensive titles the differences mainly become apparent at extremely high framerates that only matter to competitive esports gamers with monitors that push over 200fps. You'd see a benefit to the 6700 over 6600 in modern graphically intensive games, definitely, although yeah with those prices the 6600 looks the better choice.
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Sep 30, 2022 10:32
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Ah ok, that makes sense. I just have a dinky old monitor that I think I picked up second hand, no idea what it is On further reflection, I am definitely a budget mid-range gamer and the 6600 seems to fit a lot better to what I actually plan on playing I reckon I'll do a bit more reading and think on it for a bit but I'll probably wind up grabbing the 6600 while it's on sale today Thanks all! e: vv the 6600 xt is already another 90 euros jump and it doesn't seem like the gains are worth the increase.. as far as I can tell, the 6600 has the best price/performance ratio, at that price point it seems like a decent compromise, especially with power usage. To be honest I'm looking at all the games that demand a better GPU and none of them seem that interesting to me, so I don't have a good answer to the question "what would I do with a more powerful GPU?" boofhead fucked around with this message at 10:55 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 10:40
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Don't overlook the 6600XT, either. Might be a good compromise option if the price is right.
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Sep 30, 2022 10:44
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boofhead posted:Ah ok, that makes sense. I just have a dinky old monitor that I think I picked up second hand, no idea what it is wait what's your monitor's refresh rate then, if it's only 60Hz there's no real reason to get anything better than a 6600 unless you intend to upgrade to 144Hz in the future. at those prices it's definitely the best deal too yeah. otherwise it could be worthwhile waiting for RDNA3 though for the possibility of improved value (or it could wildly disappoint like Nvidia, who knows), as i said the mid-range cards are expected early next year but just the 6600 would be a huge upgrade for you lih fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 11:11
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lih posted:wait what's your monitor's refresh rate then, if it's only 60Hz there's no real reason to get anything better than a 6600 unless you intend to upgrade to 144Hz in the future. at those prices it's definitely the best deal too yeah. I just checked, you're right - 60 Hz on the Samsung S24F350 That's very encouraging to hear, especially when I am a bit of a miser when it comes to computer hardware / life in general I'm planning to spend a bunch of time at home doing sweet gently caress all this winter so an upgraded GPU would help me go through some of the games that have come out in the past few years, and 260 euros is a lot easier to swallow than 350 or 450. It's a fair point on waiting for the next gen AMD cards but I can't see the other cards dropping wildly enough in price to knock the 6600 @ 260E out of the water.. I reckon I'll pull the trigger
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Sep 30, 2022 11:19
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for 1080 60 the 6600 will be more than enough. like, literally, you could probably go cheaper really if you found say an old 2060 or something,
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Sep 30, 2022 11:22
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there's no big reason to wait then unless you plan on upgrading the monitor. maybe prices will go down a bit more but that's it. the 6600 is extremely capable at 1080p 60Hz
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Sep 30, 2022 11:24
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CoolCab posted:for 1080 60 the 6600 will be more than enough. like, literally, you could probably go cheaper really if you found say an old 2060 or something, I took a look but couldn't find one lih posted:there's no big reason to wait then unless you plan on upgrading the monitor. maybe prices will go down a bit more but that's it. the 6600 is extremely capable at 1080p 60Hz I just ordered it! I'm very happy, I got the RX 470 back in 2016 and it's done pretty well for itself but I'm excited to see how this one goes Thanks so much everyone!
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Sep 30, 2022 11:36
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boofhead posted:I took a look but couldn't find one sweet! there have been some clearance promos on 2060s that were cheaper than 6600s but that will be a pretty significant jump, enjoy
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Sep 30, 2022 11:39
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:Don’t waste your time until you’re ready to pull the trigger. It's a lot of information to take in so I'm trying to distribute it over time. If there were no new CPUs and GPUs just round the corner I'd already be making a decision. Apart from gaming, I don't have a single main workload but I compile stuff, work with photos, run Docker/VMs locally, and plan to do some machine learning on the side (which unfortunately pushes me towards Nvidia even though I spent most of my time under Linux). Butterfly Valley posted:Your price is going to be huge enough as it is if you're buying a 4080/RDNA 3 equivalent, which is what you need to be aiming for for 4k 60+ fps, that the DDR4/5 cost difference should be the least of your concerns. True about the price difference between DDR4/5 (though I am in Europe). I am eyeing 4090 or similar (because of the price difference between 4080 and 4090 being very small at that point) but I am very worried about the thermals in case I combine it with one of the more powerful CPUs. Because of that, this time I'm considering a custom water cooling loop since that should hopefully improve the temperatures. I've built 3 PCs before but all of them were air-cooled so it's going to be a learning experience.
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Sep 30, 2022 12:02
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I want to disagree with Butterfly Valley's claim that you're totally GPU bound at 4K. That's definitely not the case depending on what you're throwing at your CPU. There are plenty of simulation and strategy games that may still end up limited by a weaker CPU, and even AAA FPS games can be limited by the CPU at 4K if you turn on ray tracing, since RT is such a CPU-heavy task. Cyberpunk 2077 sees some pretty significant performance differences depending on your CPU and memory choice at 4K with ray tracing enabled, for instance (source - the points in each box plot are 1% lows, 5% lows, mean average, 95% highs, 99% highs). So it all depends. If you're not building for six more months, getting a Ryzen 7000 or Intel 13th gen might end up making the most sense anyway. edit: A high-airflow case like the Fractal Torrent would be able to handle an air-cooled 4090 and a high-end CPU just fine. With a 4090, you may especially want a CPU better than a Ryzen 5000-series (or at least a 5800X3D). We'll have to see what reviews say, though. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Sep 30, 2022 |
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Sep 30, 2022 12:07
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Friend needs a new gpu, this looks like a decent deal https://www.ebay.com/itm/GIGABYTE-N...pid=26047264718 The details are kind of sparse but my experience on eBay is that they will always side with the buyer, so maybe it's worth risking at that price? New ones are $200 more.
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