|
Perhaps a better comparison would be South Lake Tahoe, which was nearly burned to the ground in its entirety last year by the Caldor Fire. It’s still not a major population center (ranked three hundred and thirty‐eighth within California), but at least it’s a whole city.
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 12:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:16 |
|
|
That Works posted:Same. LA might be a bad example, I've always been critical of an area where two of its seasons are Firestorm and Mudslide. I believe that we have made some incredibly stupid choices for city placement/planning all over the nation. We have a bunch of places that either require the next man made world wonder to be fixed or should just be abandoned entirely. Gulf Coast states tend to get picked on more because of the frequency we see them fail. At this point, the feds will be paying the Landlords of Florida leaving the actual residents high and dry. What gets me is how these places are rebuilt/insured. We are now up to almost a major hurricane a year (is it more?) hitting Florida. The Federal gov insures this place against flooding, which we know will occur. From what I can see, any improved building codes don't seem to be making things more survivable. Where do we, as a nation, draw the line and say, "enough is enough". I don't know the solution. I don't want forced relocations or anything like that. But we should have a plan in place that somehow either draws down these areas or we need to start on some kind of Great Work to save those places. Our method of rebuild and hope for the best doesn't work. All that does is displace renters from their homes. I'm fine with keeping these places (hell, New Orleans is an awesome place), but if we want to keep them, we need to act like it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 12:24
|
|
Stultus Maximus posted:Really? I frequently read about how the California big city exurbs have been expanding into wildfire zones and how this is a terrible idea. Probably just confirmation bias on my part then. I've literally heard my entire life that I shouldn't live where I lived (South Louisiana) just before/during/after every major storm despite people living in those areas for >300 years but have heard little / nothing about why we shouldn't rebuild other areas after disasters. It's annoying, especially considering how much of the US population lives within a few miles of an ocean coastline. e: totally agree at some point it is unsustainable and going to fail or require a works program to protect them that we do not have the national will/skill/capital to pull off anymore.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 12:37
|
|
|
Also, New Orleans isn't where it is because some people decided it would be a good place to get drunk, look at some tiddy, and buy over priced 200 year old houses. It's a major port city necessary for the control of the Mississippi. It's a starting point for multiple critical transport and pipeline networks. It exists because YOU need it to exist.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 12:41
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 12:51
|
|
|
FWIW FEMA does have a Hazard Mitigation Grant program which includes offering buy-outs to people living in flood prone areas that have become uninsurable. Away from beachfronts in places like the big river valleys low-lying areas tend to be on the lower end of the income scale already. As they start getting hit by more frequent and severe flooding events, people living there can end up effectively trapped in a financial sense between their property value tanking and having to use what little else they've saved up on repeated damages. In those cases FEMA offers to buy their properties at full pre-flood / pre-insurance rates so they have a lifeline to get out and move to a less flood prone area. We'll end up building dykes or wave barriers or something to protect the cities along the Gulf and Atlantic seaboard but there's definitely going to end up being areas that won't get that sort of protection. When that happens there will be a real need for the government to help assist people in relocating to other areas of the country without becoming homeless climate refugees, including helping those people get their savings out of homes that now belong to Poseidon. Now of course, whether the private equity vampires manage to divert all that towards bailing out their property investments is another matter.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 13:08
|
|
|
That Works posted:I've literally heard my entire life that I shouldn't live where I lived (South Louisiana) just before/during/after every major storm despite people living in those areas for >300 years but have heard little / nothing about why we shouldn't rebuild other areas after disasters. Its not *any* coastline, or *any* california wildfire zone. Its the new ones that are swamps or eucalyptus forests. We have 100 years of modern data about places we've expanded to in the last few decades that never should have been zoned for construction. We continue to expand our suburbs and vacation locations into as yet unbuilt areas and there is a reason people hadn't lived there in mass for >300 years and left them undeveloped! Yet the insurance structure continues to reward rich landowners for doing so rather than going to help the normal citizens of the area.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 14:09
|
|
|
Eucalyptus forests are as much a blight on North America as suburbia is. Log them, kill the stumps, and let native vegetation reclaim the land.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 14:18
|
|
|
At least import koalas.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 14:21
|
|
M_Gargantua posted:Its not *any* coastline, or *any* california wildfire zone. Its the new ones that are swamps or eucalyptus forests. We have 100 years of modern data about places we've expanded to in the last few decades that never should have been zoned for construction. We continue to expand our suburbs and vacation locations into as yet unbuilt areas and there is a reason people hadn't lived there in mass for >300 years and left them undeveloped! Yet the insurance structure continues to reward rich landowners for doing so rather than going to help the normal citizens of the area. Yeah and none of this applies to South Louisiana which I was referring to (and AoD probably since they are also from round there) which has been inhabited by colonials since 1718 and natives prior to ~500 BCE. Anyways I think we all agree its a huge problem but the "people shouldn't live in place X" arguments are tiresome every hurricane event when they get trotted out.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
I chuckled.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 14:47
|
|
|
Looks like Flynn forgot that Governor’s can’t declare war, and the last time they tried a man from Ohio burned their cities down and pushed them to the sea. https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1575449088669130753?s=20&t=ZDHET7Q6ZVNI3nE9ZWMEXg
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 15:09
|
|
|
Add Arizona to my list of states that need to be fenced off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 15:10
|
|
|
That Works posted:Probably just confirmation bias on my part then. - Californian exurban sprawl into wildfire-prone areas - Floridian exurban sprawl into flood-prone areas - Las Vegan exurban sprawl into an area without the water table to sustain it Las Vegas (and other sunbelt areas) are somewhat tangential, but adjacent enough to be worth calling out. The others have at their root the nasty problem of anti-density policies prohibiting new housing in existing built areas plus the nonsensical subsidies governments provide to disaster insurance—with the combined result of creating huge perverse incentives for flocks of people to buy homes in areas they wouldn't otherwise because the insurance cost would be prohibitive. That Works posted:Anyways I think we all agree its a huge problem but the "people shouldn't live in place X" arguments are tiresome every hurricane event when they get trotted out. Tampa: https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1575197709186711553?s=20&t=TXezgQubQORiategJqfpwQ Cali:  Vegas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFzdyxwx50M
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 15:18
|
|
Cugel the Clever posted:I'm pretty steeped in urbanist discourse, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that these truisms are anything but outside those circles. The following are frequently opined upon: So you're the guy at the funeral pointing out that we wouldn't be here today if X had laid off the potato chips eh.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
That Works posted:So you're the guy at the funeral pointing out that we wouldn't be here today if X had laid off the potato chips eh. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 15:55
|
|
|
CRUSTY MINGE posted:Add Arizona to my list of states that need to be fenced off. This guy gets it. The only redeeming feature of Arizona that I am personally aware of are the border towns with the most delicious foods and the party don't stop at 6pm. Knowing my luck and Arizona I probably just praised a meth distribution and prostitution hub without realizing it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
A couple of fun YouTube gun related channels are based in Arizona, but other than that?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:20
|
|
|
That Works posted:So you're the guy at the funeral pointing out that we wouldn't be here today if X had laid off the potato chips eh.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:20
|
|
Cugel the Clever posted:lol, unironically yes, except this is more of a "lay off literally living in the Chick-fil-A deep fryer and raving about how it's others' responsibility to pay for the consequences". Too many people pay heated lip service to stopping and adapting to climate change, but balk like obstinate toddlers at the idea that their own lives might have to change, even if just as a downstream effect of reining in the worst polluters. I'm sure the survivors families (who all have the agency and ability to affect the changes that are necessary and the financial and political means to do so) will be properly chastised. Because of course as we all know, climate disaster does not disproportionately affect those in poverty with little / no means to prevent these occurrences.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
mate you're melting down worse than the climate
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:29
|
|
|
In other news, we forgot to mention a school shooting that happened yesterday. From what I can tell, the suspect is still out there: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c_-n95PrNoYqswOwyNDb-GABF1lrK3Z64gqVw2VBnO8/edit
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
So the fact that Tampa hasn't been hit in recorded history affects this how? Like, Miami should probably be abandoned at this point, even tho it is actually gonna turn into dystopian Venice, but Tampa is pretty much an ideal insurable area.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
I grew up in Tampa and in college I took an Earth science class. The professor talked about something I think he called a "subtropical high" and Tampa sits right along one and that they tend to push hurricanes either above or below the city which makes it so rare to be directly bit by hurricanes. That was over 10 years ago so not sure if I've got the terminology right though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
RFC2324 posted:So the fact that Tampa hasn't been hit in recorded history affects this how?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:48
|
|
|
Platystemon posted:Eucalyptus forests are as much a blight on North America as suburbia is. Won't somebody for ONCE think of the koala farmers??
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 16:52
|
|
|
Soul Dentist posted:Won't somebody for ONCE think of the koala farmers?? Arcana, Perry G, 1810 posted:Whether we consider the uncouth and remarkable form of its body, which is particularly awkward and unwieldy, or its strange physiognomy and manner of living, we are at a loss to imagine for what particular scale of usefulness or happiness such a beast could be by the great Author of Nature possibly be destined.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:07
|
|
|
shame on an IGA posted:Whether we consider the uncouth and remarkable form of its body, which is particularly awkward and unwieldy, or its strange physiognomy and manner of living, we are at a loss to imagine for what particular scale of usefulness or happiness such a beast could be by the great Author of Nature possibly be destined. Turn on your monitor.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
That Works posted:I'm sure the survivors families (who all have the agency and ability to affect the changes that are necessary and the financial and political means to do so) will be properly chastised. Because of course as we all know, climate disaster does not disproportionately affect those in poverty with little / no means to prevent these occurrences. I think a good portion of us have the position that these are things that should be fixed at the federal level, and hence have federal programs and funding to do those things, not some vague judgement on the people living there. Either they're not going to move on their own because they can't, and should be subsidized, or they're not going to stop because they're being subsidized to live there, and should be forced to take their cash and go elsewhere. Disaster insurance needs to remain a thing, but we shouldn't be allowing people to use it to overpopulate at risk areas for their profit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:20
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/KyleWOrton/status/1575508184038625282?t=Rc0TiAH1NWmKz7UWE66vOg&s=19 Good to see Kyle Orton took up journalism following leaving the Bills locker room to get some smokes I know it isn't Purdue's own QB
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:28
|
|
|
“The anesthesiologist told the agent she had previously reached out directly to the Russian Embassy by email and phone to offer her and Maj. Henry's assistance after the nation invaded Ukraine, the indictment alleges. “ real Burn After Reading vibes there. Coen brothers would be proud
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
piL posted:There are people who claim exactly this, but democracy is weird and the most consistent voice in voting at the local level is land owners. I dont know how to galvanize the people holding the bag for California's refusal to build tall and/or mass transit* or for building in wildfire/flood risk areas until people really feel it, and we're still not there yet. The parts of California where building tall and dense would provide the most good are also right along the fault lines. I can't really think of anywhere in CONUS that doesn't face an extreme weather event that wouldn't invoke a "just move" response from people, and environmental factors will just get worse the more people you jam in and more ecological changes you force. Earthquakes, wildfires, tornados, hurricanes, flooding/flash floods severe drought, nowhere is really immune. I live in an area that's historically damp and high rainfall, and I've had several droughts over the last few years that weakened the trees which then came down in windstorms when the rains returned, and then without adequate roots in the soil got some fresh landslides. November of 2021 I was going out back up the mountain to poke and prod at various points to check saturation levels in the wee hours of every morning, typically between 2 and 4am, to determine what the sliderisk was like. During that same period the low laying area to the south of me flooded under eight feet or so of water, the highways in and out were all flooded or washed out, and the choruses that the flooded farmers should just move started up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:35
|
|
|
kupachek posted:I can't really think of anywhere in CONUS that doesn't face an extreme weather event that wouldn't invoke a "just move" response from people, and environmental factors will just get worse the more people you jam in and more ecological changes you force. Earthquakes, wildfires, tornados, hurricanes, flooding/flash floods severe drought, nowhere is really immune.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:37
|
|
|
pmchem posted:“The anesthesiologist told the agent she had previously reached out directly to the Russian Embassy by email and phone to offer her and Maj. Henry's assistance after the nation invaded Ukraine, the indictment alleges. “ Found footage from the meeting with the agent https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flY5nEphdSs
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:40
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:The Great Lakes. They're boring but they're safe, and their extreme weather events generally rack up single digit body counts. Georgia, we get some amount of tornados that do some amount of damage every year and Savanah rarely gets put under water, which will resolve itself in a few decades when it will be underwater the entire time.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:41
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:The Great Lakes. They're boring but they're safe, and their extreme weather events generally rack up single digit body counts. Louisville KY based on private logistics companies all being very upfront about why they put all their infrastructure there. IMO from experience elsewhere that has ceased to be the case and everyone needs to be analyzing whether their own personal area of control can withstand a Harvey-level rain event. We are all subject to Harvey-level rain events.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:44
|
|
|
Nick Soapdish posted:https://twitter.com/KyleWOrton/status/1575508184038625282?t=Rc0TiAH1NWmKz7UWE66vOg&s=19 Probably was a lot of fun for the fed though. Just give them the worst accent you got, they won't know
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:46
|
|
|
stealie72 posted:The Great Lakes. They're boring but they're safe, and their extreme weather events generally rack up single digit body counts. Can confirm. It's cold but the homes are built and insulated for it. Same with summer heat, and basements help. Grid is largely nuclear and hydroelectric so plenty of baseload as well Deaths are usually from some dickhead in a pickup thinking he can drive 100km/h in 2 feet of snow.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:16 |
|
|
pmchem posted:“The anesthesiologist told the agent she had previously reached out directly to the Russian Embassy by email and phone to offer her and Maj. Henry's assistance after the nation invaded Ukraine, the indictment alleges. “ 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2022 17:51
|
|