The US will lose WW3

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

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vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

NASA just used a suicide drone to bomb an asteroid

# ? Sep 27, 2022 00:31

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# ? May 27, 2024 17:37

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

A peer war's RF environment is also going to be jammed like crazy by both sides, and they seem to build this into stealth doctrine as that is what they were supposed to do over Yugoslavia but didn't for whatever reason that day.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 00:33

Goast: Jul 23, 2011; by VideoGames

aren't all intentionally irretrievable spacecraft suicide drones?

Goast has issued a correction as of 01:00 on Sep 27, 2022

# ? Sep 27, 2022 00:49

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

Goast posted:

aren't all intentionally irretrievable spacecraft suicide drones?

they are probes

# ? Sep 27, 2022 01:08

Goast: Jul 23, 2011; by VideoGames

Cuttlefush posted:

they are probes

what happens to the drones after they serve their mission :ohdear:

# ? Sep 27, 2022 01:21

COPE 27: Sep 11, 2006

They get recycled back into the collective

# ? Sep 27, 2022 01:30

Real hurthling!: Sep 11, 2001

Goast posted:

aren't all intentionally irretrievable spacecraft suicide drones?

that one mars rover refused to die for like 8 years post mission they kept coming up with stupider things to drive it off of

# ? Sep 27, 2022 01:35

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

the next rover should go up with a bunch of roombas to map out the area so it can dick around autonomously

# ? Sep 27, 2022 03:57

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

Goast posted:

what happens to the drones after they serve their mission

they go to dronie heaven

# ? Sep 27, 2022 04:31

PhilippAchtel: May 31, 2011

Rutibex posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxnC6jkJyEM

What is the deal with the pop idols and mecha pilots work together to save humanity trope? A weird one, for sure.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 04:33

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Goast posted:

what happens to the drones after they serve their mission

they reincarnate to live out their new drone lives, sometimes one peaceful and smaller, sometimes one violent and short

# ? Sep 27, 2022 04:36

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

I'm late to mortar chat but did someone say 120mm vehicle mounted mortar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI8L5NSsaOI

# ? Sep 27, 2022 11:20

Filthy Hans: Jun 27, 2008; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 10 years!)

I remember there was some large mobile artillery vehicle project in the early aughts that was eating up billions in development that Rumsfeld kept trying to cancel and congress kept refunding, but I can't find anything on it now

# ? Sep 27, 2022 12:19

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Weka posted:

I'm late to mortar chat but did someone say 120mm vehicle mounted mortar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI8L5NSsaOI

I wonder what the cost differential is.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 12:38

Regarde Aduck: Oct 19, 2012; c l o u d k i t t e n; Grimey Drawer

Filthy Hans posted:

I remember there was some large mobile artillery vehicle project in the early aughts that was eating up billions in development that Rumsfeld kept trying to cancel and congress kept refunding, but I can't find anything on it now

the paladin upgrade for the M109's?

edit: no that was in the 90's, thought it was much later :shrug:

# ? Sep 27, 2022 12:44

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

XM 2001 Crusader

# ? Sep 27, 2022 12:50

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

Regarde Aduck posted:

the paladin upgrade for the M109's?

edit: no that was in the 90's, thought it was much later

(Efb)

The Crusader, it was cancelled in 2002, it had cost the US $11 billion with no replacement beyond upgrading the m109.

The late 90s until today has been mostly junk that has either went nowhere or should have gone nowhere.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 12:52

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

The propellant was supposed to be ignited by laser.

It�s the perfect embodiment of the absolute Max Boot fantasyland of the late 80�s-2000�s. Read up on the design, consider all of the things that could break and required frequent maintenance and remember that it had a crew of three spread between two vehicles.

# ? Sep 27, 2022 12:56

GlassEye-Boy: Jul 12, 2001

Weka posted:

I'm late to mortar chat but did someone say 120mm vehicle mounted mortar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI8L5NSsaOI

too big, too expensive. Need something more mobile, something cuter.

GlassEye-Boy has issued a correction as of 17:49 on Sep 27, 2022

# ? Sep 27, 2022 17:47

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

GlassEye-Boy posted:

too big, too expensive. Need something more mobile, something cuter.

so, they can build 1000 of this at the cost of one bradley

# ? Sep 28, 2022 18:19

COPE 27: Sep 11, 2006

I mean they could build like 20,000 superhornets for the cost of the f35 program

# ? Sep 28, 2022 18:49

croup coughfield: Apr 8, 2020; Can't post for 71 days!

so did we lose yet or what

# ? Sep 28, 2022 23:45

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

the US is losing the war against the world's oppressed majority, but winning the war against the EU

# ? Sep 28, 2022 23:52

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

Why do I hear dutch techno

# ? Sep 28, 2022 23:56

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

GlassEye-Boy posted:

too big, too expensive. Need something more mobile, something cuter.

That's me, the world's smallest grad.

# ? Sep 29, 2022 00:17

The Oldest Man: Jul 28, 2003

Weka posted:

That's me, the world's smallest grad.

im just a smol grad uwu

# ? Sep 29, 2022 00:39

skooma512: Feb 8, 2012; You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Cuttlefush posted:

Why do I hear dutch techno

Hardcore!

# ? Sep 29, 2022 00:50

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

PhilippAchtel posted:

What is the deal with the pop idols and mecha pilots work together to save humanity trope? A weird one, for sure.

Macross invented it back in the '80s

# ? Sep 29, 2022 00:50

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

https://twitter.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1576465483423191046

quote:

China's military is very interested in powered and passive exoskeletons

Why is that?

The answer is found in how PLA infantry tactics have evolved over the years...🧵

Traditionally, the PLA were at a power disadvantage compared to our potential land adversaries

The air and firepower dominance of the US Army in Korea or the Soviet Red Army's torrent of steel tide

So the PLA had to get clever with infantry tactics to compensate

The orthodox PLA infantry tactics is to quickly close the distance by concealment (under darkness) then engage in close-quarter-combat

Infiltration then aggressive close-quarter-combat made the US army to conduct their longest retreat in history during the Korean war

This tactics relies heavily on concealment and deception, you must make your enemy think your units is somewhere else

Because if discovered, an enemy with superior firepower and mobility can inflict serious casualties on your unit

The core tenet of PLA deception tactics revolves around the concept of "Knowing your enemy and do not let your enemy know you"

This is done through 2 types of combat operations:
1, Reconnaissance (recon)
2, Usage of Mobile Cover Force (Disrupting enemy recon)

1st is to know where your enemies are and their intent

Recon is such a vital aspect of PLA infantry warfare, practically every soldier is trained to do it

1 example is the tactics called Recon-by-fire, where recon units would fire at suspected enemy locations to bait them out

Above is a modern PLA combat recon deployment example

1) is 1st recon platoon advancing towards potential enemy
2) is a 2nd recon platoon neutralizing an enemy outpost
3) is the artillery section, could be a 81mm mortar or 122mm artillery
4) is a recon drone

These 3 types of recon elements can all be used for recon-by-fire tactics to bait enemies to respond and reveal their position

The relevant ones are the Recon infantry platoons, first widely adopted during Sino-Vietnamese war

Below the guy on the left has a personal radio set

That guy would have a direct link to the Company or Battalion artillery asset (number 3 in the map above)

These guys would be very independent, relying on little external support, they must travel light, and can be as far as 50km ahead of the main body of force

If Recon is to know your enemy, then the Cover Force is employed to disrupt enemy's Recon so they don't know anything about your main body of force

Cover Force can be Static or Mobile, deployed on the flanks, their task is to engage any enemy and disrupt their mission

Map above shows a PLA light Combined Arms Brigade employed as a mobile Cover Force

They are deployed 15 to 20km away from main body
2) are the recon companies
3) are the maneuver battalions to engage enemy
4) is reserve
6) is the artillery

Both Recon and Mobile cover force requires fast movements, before mechanization most of that were done on legs or dismounted truck transported infantry

Finally getting back on topic..
Which means PLA infantry weapons must be light so the soldiers don't get tired during maneuvers

Above is the QBB-95 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) or "light machine gun"

Keeping with the concept of QBZ-95 family of guns, it's light, sturdy and easy to carry (it even has a carrying handle)

The charging handle circled is pointed up, so it can't get snagged onto things

The down side to the QBB-95 is the drum (round) magazine

They are great when you're marching 40km a day, but they're also very cumbersome to reload and cannot hold as many ammo as belt fed machine guns

The 2016 reforms were done just as the PLA have completed mechanization, which means weight is no longer an issue, since most infantry will fight not too far from their squad armored vehicles

Which is why the QJS-161 SAW were designed

They can use normal magazines like above, or belt fed ammo box with 200 rounds like below

Their barrels can be swapped easily which means they can sustain way better suppressive fire than the old QBB-95

More suppressive fire = more likelihood of your side winning a firefight

In keeping with PLA tradition, QJS-161 is still very light, less than 5kg empty

However, with the proliferation of anti-tank weapons and drones, tactics that rely too heavily on your squad armored vehicle becomes unviable

They can be easily targeted and destroyed

So back to relying on your legs

Which is why exoskeleton is seen as a key technology by the PLA, and is already in use by some units

They can help to increase a soldier's endurance and lighten their load by evenly distributing it across their body

Had to cut a lot of details, especially relating to specific PLA tactics, because the thread is getting way too long

For example the PLA Recon tactics by itself is worthy of an entire thread

Like and retweet this, so I know this is what you guys would like to learn more about🧐

Thread on how PLA tactics and experience has lead them to become interested in using exoskeletons for their troops.

# ? Oct 2, 2022 21:05

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

my interest in exoskeletons for the troops stems from that tom cruise movie where he keeps going back in time

# ? Oct 2, 2022 21:48

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

croup coughfield posted:

so did we lose yet or what

When was the winning happening?

# ? Oct 2, 2022 21:50

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

The PLA selected a great intermediate cartridge in the 5.8x42, everything after that with exoskeletons or whatever� lol.

It would be great if politicians didn�t try to keep dumping more and more kit on individual soldiers instead of keeping up manpower levels to spread the load and a robust logistical tail.

# ? Oct 2, 2022 21:53

atelier morgan: Mar 11, 2003; super-scientific, ultra-gay; Lipstick Apathy

not too surprising to me that the PLA ground forces suffer from boondoggles

the PLAN is fairly straightforward in doctrine because they know exactly what war they are being built, trained and prepared to fight: sink the us pacific fleet in the south china sea

similarly the PLA's strategic missile and air defense forces have pretty obvious missions they're designed to fulfill

but the ground forces? the impression i've gotten from their development is that there really isn't an obvious mission in the same way. apart from some intensely weird and super local skirmishes on the indian border they haven't fought at all in more than 30 years. and there aren't exactly a great deal of plausible scenarios in which someone tries to invade china on land

atelier morgan has issued a correction as of 00:24 on Oct 3, 2022

# ? Oct 3, 2022 00:18

The Atomic Man-Boy: Jul 23, 2007

lobster shirt posted:

my interest in exoskeletons for the troops stems from that tom cruise movie where he keeps going back in time

My interest in the V-22 Osprey stem from the dumb guy in that same movie who has a drop ship land on him every time Tom Cruise goes back in time.

# ? Oct 3, 2022 01:00

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

doesnt he get saved sometimes

# ? Oct 3, 2022 01:11

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

atelier morgan posted:

not too surprising to me that the PLA ground forces suffer from boondoggles

the PLAN is fairly straightforward in doctrine because they know exactly what war they are being built, trained and prepared to fight: sink the us pacific fleet in the south china sea

similarly the PLA's strategic missile and air defense forces have pretty obvious missions they're designed to fulfill

but the ground forces? the impression i've gotten from their development is that there really isn't an obvious mission in the same way. apart from some intensely weird and super local skirmishes on the indian border they haven't fought at all in more than 30 years. and there aren't exactly a great deal of plausible scenarios in which someone tries to invade china on land

Their border skirmishes against India and the USSR were fought by different forces than invaded Vietnam, which were different than the ones that had fought in Korea or the Civil War.

They have a mishmash of equipment and organizations from the last division of horse cavalry in the world to very heavy mechanized forces. Probably it�s because of the wide range of possible theatres and adversaries. I imagine it�s harder for them to sit down and say �this is an infantry division� because the logistics available on the Afghan border, Siberia, or Vietnam are all so different. The same unit would have to be sea-mobile to Taiwan etc.

That�s another reason the universal 5.8 was a smart choice because it�s one less thing you have go think about.

# ? Oct 3, 2022 01:28

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1563773034712170496?cxt=HHwWgIDUtcbS0bMrAAAA

quote:

The FD2030 plan is designed to meet the challenges presented by China in the Pacific

The central strategy of the USMC will shift from large scale combined arms warfare to Small Scale, Dispersed units

Glorified coast watchers with missiles

The specifics of the Plan includes, getting rid of tanks and artillery

Replacing them with rocket artillery and missiles, which costs tens of thousands of dollars up to $1.7 million per round

Effectively ending the Marine's ability to present suppressive fire

This means the USMC will subordinate itself in most situations to the US navy

Effectively ceasing to be an independent service branch

This is done through hollowing out the of Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF)

One type of Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) is the Marine Expeditionary Force (MEF)

MEF contains 1 Marine Division, 1 Marine Airwing and 1 Marine Logistics Group

These are usually the most complete package deployable at the Corps level, commanded by a Lieutenant-General

Under the FD2030 plan, the Marine divisions will be torn apart

Turning Marine regiments under the Divisions into Marine Littoral Regiment (MLR)

So these 2nd Marines (image below) with 2 maneuver infantry Regiments and 1 artillery regiments

Will be turned into what the 3rd Marine Division have

Gutting the warfighting Regiments into Marine Littoral Regiments MLR

Getting rid of the artillery regiment and crucially; the support battalions (engineering and armored battalion etc)

When the USMC commandant were asked

How will he provide logistics and armor support for the Marines?

He said, the Navy and the Army will provide them

The problem however, is if armor and engineering is not organic to a unit (permanent part of the unit)...

...then they won't know how to effectively operate with rotational units from other branches

War is organized chaos

Without certain capabilities permanently attached to a unit, then expect that unit to trip over themselves in a fire fight

Besides having parts of the USMC downgrade to mall cops, their logistics might end up relying on Narco-Submarines

These homemade semisubmersibles are used by Drug cartels to smuggle drugs into the US

So why is the USMC shooting itself in the foot?
The answer is: CHINA

The US Navy's strategy in containing China, is done through their island chain strategy

But due to the fact that the US navy enjoyed such an advantage until few years ago, they weren't too worried about China's navy

But now China has the ability to sink their capital ships out from 2000km away, their island chain containment strategy must change

The Marines under FD2030 plan will become the eyes of the US Navy, hiding on islands with fingers crossed not to be seen or hit by the PLA

I see this as a strategic retreat by the US

Letting regions of the first island chain be the sacrificial lamb and soften the initial blow

When seen in the context of their Army Vision 2028, you start to piece together what the US strategy is against China

That is a strategic pull back, with SK and Japan as bridgeheads

This is not done to avoid war, it's done so they can punch harder

🧵is too long, I've left out many details and a lot of military jargons:

Such as Marine LCT (Littoral Combat Team) are giving up MOS 0317(scout snipers) and MOS 0352 (anti-tank missile gunners)

But the general picture is clear, the USMC as we know it is dying because of China

# ? Oct 3, 2022 03:44

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

The Marines losing armour and artillery is wild. The Brigade-ification and lightening if western (and Russian!) militaries has led to disappointment after disappointment for two decades now but politicians are absolutely committed to it. It had a technological rationale in the 90�s, but now that we�ve seen that that didn�t come to pass, and it�s not being done for purely budgetary reasons, I wonder if the one-two punch of cutting labour costs and avoiding casualties in the headlines is literally impossible for neoliberal governments to resist.

# ? Oct 3, 2022 03:53

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

I think its a good thing to neuter the navys army airforce among other things

# ? Oct 3, 2022 05:22

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# ? May 27, 2024 17:37

Danann: Aug 4, 2013

Frosted Flake posted:

The Marines losing armour and artillery is wild. The Brigade-ification and lightening if western (and Russian!) militaries has led to disappointment after disappointment for two decades now but politicians are absolutely committed to it. It had a technological rationale in the 90�s, but now that we�ve seen that that didn�t come to pass, and it�s not being done for purely budgetary reasons, I wonder if the one-two punch of cutting labour costs and avoiding casualties in the headlines is literally impossible for neoliberal governments to resist.

It's going to be incredible when the inevitable lesson the West gets out of the Ukraine War is that Ukraine only lost because of Putin's Asiatic Hordes and that they merely only need more wunderwaffen to stop the Russians cold. I guess there's that Army 2028 thing with all the divisions but who knows how that's going to end up in practice because of the assumption of an all professional army and an intellectual environment that's hostile to anything implying the West could lose.

# ? Oct 3, 2022 05:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > The US will lose WW3

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