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Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

Lmao

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Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Seventh Arrow posted:

One more thing about Winter Ember, a story beat that makes me :lol: every time I think about it. A lot of the game's story and momentum revolves around avenging your family's deaths. Did they die because they had inadvertently wandered into Crime Alley? No, they died because your dad was blackmailing some of the most powerful people in the kingdom. I know that doesn't justify murdering him, but lmao what did he think was going to happen?

You basically spend most of the game avenging a dumbass.

hahaha perfect! :D I've gotta wonder though... does your character actually know this, for most of the game? Or do they only find out at the end? Since surely if your character knew about it for a while, they'd just be like, "nahh, you gently caress around you find out. I'm outta here"

Also, playing Intravenous has made me regain that old real-time top-down stealth itch that I thought I lost years ago. Are there any other sneaky top-down games on Steam, in the same vein? I imagine none of them will have the classic Splinter Cell sound+light mechanics like Intravenous had (which I was very pleasantly surprised about) but either way, I'm definitely open to suggestions!

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Major Isoor posted:

hahaha perfect! :D I've gotta wonder though... does your character actually know this, for most of the game? Or do they only find out at the end? Since surely if your character knew about it for a while, they'd just be like, "nahh, you gently caress around you find out. I'm outta here"

You find out about 2/3 of the way through, but I guess Arthur still feels like an injustice was done to his family and the villains aren't very nice anyways. Also the twist at the end is just as dumb - they burned his place down because of an obscure law that dictates that royalty lose their claim to the throne if their skin is burnt.

quote:

Also, playing Intravenous has made me regain that old real-time top-down stealth itch that I thought I lost years ago. Are there any other sneaky top-down games on Steam, in the same vein? I imagine none of them will have the classic Splinter Cell sound+light mechanics like Intravenous had (which I was very pleasantly surprised about) but either way, I'm definitely open to suggestions!

https://store.steampowered.com/app/365770/Volume/

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Seventh Arrow posted:

You find out about 2/3 of the way through, but I guess Arthur still feels like an injustice was done to his family and the villains aren't very nice anyways. Also the twist at the end is just as dumb - they burned his place down because of an obscure law that dictates that royalty lose their claim to the throne if their skin is burnt.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/365770/Volume/

Geez, fair enough. Sounds very weird and entirely avoidable, plot-wise. (So I guess that makes it entirely realistic, given that the whole drama is dumb and could've been avoided? :D )

Also, cool! Volume looks good - I'll have to keep an eye on it, just in case it gets a discount in the coming weeks, before I crack and buy it. Thanks!

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011
Oh also, I just noticed a couple of stealth games I've been following on Steam have gone on sale. Shadwen and Aragami. Pretty sure Seventh Arrow gave Aragami their tick of approval, so I think I'll pick it up when I get home - especially since it's a pretty good deal. No idea about Shadwen though... I think SA might've posted about it too, but I can't remember. It's cheap as well though, so I can't complain! I'll have to take a closer look at Steam when I get home, in case some other good stealth games I've been interested in have gone on sale

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

didst thou ring?

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009


Lol

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Ah, your stealthgaming senses were tingling! Perfect timing as always :D

Shadwen seems cool though, after reading your post! That time-pausing ability seems cool. Kinda reminds me of Blades of the Shogun in a way, I guess. Welp, sounds like I'm adding two more games to my growing list

trying to jack off
Dec 31, 2007

Major Isoor posted:

Ah, your stealthgaming senses were tingling! Perfect timing as always :D

Shadwen seems cool though, after reading your post! That time-pausing ability seems cool. Kinda reminds me of Blades of the Shogun in a way, I guess. Welp, sounds like I'm adding two more games to my growing list

they were always here, you just didnt notice ;)

my morning jackass
Aug 24, 2009

Arigami looks cool.

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Despite the concerns raised in my review, I've been liking Arigami 2 quite a bit as a pickup stealth game. After you finish the main campaign, you can replay any of the maps and they all have several missions. So it's good if you want a bit of timewaster to do the completionist thing or even if you just want to run around killing ninjas a bit. It has co-op too, if that's your thing.

Fungah!
Apr 30, 2011

trying to jack off posted:

they were always here, you just didnt notice ;)

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Daedalic Presents: A Mimimi Game: Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun: Aiko's Choice: Electric Boogaloo: A Hideo Kojima Jam





Ok, it's not really a Kojima game - I just wanted to pile on the absurd subtitles. Aiko's Choice is an expansion to the original Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun and takes place about halfway through that game's story. Just like before, you have control over five specialists who all have their own unique abilities that help you get sneakily through each map. They are:
  • Hayato - standard-issue ninja with dark blue pajamas. He has a shuriken that can murk fools at range. He also has a stone that he can toss to distract guards. It's only for a few seconds though, so you won't be able to kill anyone and drag their bodies off while their backs are turned. It's more so you can sneak by without being spotted.
  • Yuki - a diminutive thief who has a deadly spring-loaded trap and a flute that can draw enemies to her location. I would have to check, but I'm pretty sure they nerfed Yuki at least a bit. It seems to me that in the last game, it was far too easy to use her on every guard, since the ability to lure them away from prying eyes and then quietly vaporize them was a bit too facile. Now the flute only works on basic level guards and will not work on straw hats and samurai.
  • Aiko - a master of disguises who can distract guards indefinitely. Now here's the character you want to use if you want to murder someone and drag their bodies off while a guard's back is turned (although samurai will see through her disguise). She also has a sneezing powder that will limit a guard's view for about 5 seconds or so. It doesn't affect their hearing though, so don't do anything noisy in their vicinity or else they'll come running.
  • Mugen - is back in all his armored, muscular glory. He has an AOE attack that slices guards in a whirlwind of steel and punctured screams. He can also toss a bottle of sake in the view of guards, the thirstier of which will go pick it up and (literally) lose their heads. As well, Mugen is the only one who can defeat samurai in a single attack - everyone else has to stun them with a gunshot and then finish them off with a melee attack.
  • Takuma - a one-legged, elderly man with a deadly sniper's eye. His rifle works from quite far away and will give his target an acute case of not-living-anymore. He also has grenades that come in lethal (but noisy) and non-lethal (but temporary) flavors. Finally, he has his longtime companion, Kuma - a raccoon-like critter that can walk around undetected and distract guards for about 30 seconds or so. It will do tricks for the guards, which is super adorable and helps to offset the blood-soaked horrors that are about to occur.
Everyone except Takuma has a basic melee attack that one-shots guards (if done without being detected) and a basic pistol. There are other differences, like how Mugen can carry two guards, but cannot swim or climb anything but ladders. Aiko and Yuki have to drag bodies, but this counts as being crouched and are less easily detected. And so on. The gameplay is pretty much exactly the same as Blades of the Shogun. There are no new abilities, characters or enemy types. So this is a point of controversy, since the expansion is $20 and you're getting about 10 - 20 hours of gameplay (3 main maps and 3 mini-maps). There's a playable epilogue with a lot of emotional resonance and the twist is heartbreaking if you're familiar with the events of BotS.

To me, it was worth it at full price. If it's on sale, fine, but honestly I don't think it's a big deal to pay full price for such enjoyable stealth tactics gameplay. If you liked Blades of the Shogun, I say go for it!

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

All that hubbub about the price and I just noticed that it's 60% off!

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you
New indie Metal Gear Solid came out last week: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1715350/UNDETECTED/

Dev's trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQnkH_ReZVA

trying to jack off
Dec 31, 2007

im waiting for the seventh arrow review before i even consider it

Punished Chuck
Dec 27, 2010


I impulse-bought that one as soon as it released but haven't gotten to it yet, but that reminds me to plug UnMetal, a game that I've put a few hours into this weekend and have really enjoyed:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1203710/UnMetal/

I was wary of a parody game because those are usually painfully unfunny but this one's... fine, humor-wise, a lot of the jokes land and the ones that don't just aren't particularly funny but aren't really bad. But the reason I'm plugging it is that it does a really good job of emulating the gameplay of the old MSX Metal Gear games, which to my knowledge no other game has really attempted. If you, like me, played Metal Gear 1 and 2 for the first time in Metal Gear July and wanted something else in that same style this has hit the mark for me so far.

Punished Chuck fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Oct 10, 2022

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

trying to jack off posted:

im waiting for the seventh arrow review before i even consider it

I got the tude now
Jul 22, 2007

trying to jack off posted:

im waiting for the seventh arrow review before i even consider it

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

trying to jack off posted:

im waiting for the seventh arrow review before i even consider it

Yeah, pretty much! :D Although I'm always in the market for stealth games, anything that gets Seventh Arrow's tick of approval is automatically on my radar

some plague rats
Jun 5, 2012

by Fluffdaddy

oh drat this looks fuckin sick

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Seventh Arrow posted:

Another aspect to Lily's accompaniment is that her disposition towards you will change depending on whether you go on a murder spree or not (and whether she actually sees you killing anyone). I was stabbing guards left and right and let me tell you, she was downright grouchy about it!

Yeah wow, you weren't wrong about this! I initially played through the game without killing anyone and Lily was my best friend, happily tagging along and exchanging stories with Shadwen. I've just started a second playthrough where I'm getting the "kill everyone" achievements, and man yeah Lily just hates you from the start! I mean, "all" I did was stab a guard in front of her, who had been in the process of threatening her over a stolen apple! :D
Now it's all "I hate you" from Lily and veiled threats in return from Shadwen. Definitely a different vibe to my original feel-good sneaky playthrough

Joan
Mar 28, 2021

Chuck Buried Treasure posted:

I impulse-bought that one as soon as it released but haven't gotten to it yet, but that reminds me to plug UnMetal, a game that I've put a few hours into this weekend and have really enjoyed:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1203710/UnMetal/

I was wary of a parody game because those are usually painfully unfunny but this one's... fine, humor-wise, a lot of the jokes land and the ones that don't just aren't particularly funny but aren't really bad. But the reason I'm plugging it is that it does a really good job of emulating the gameplay of the old MSX Metal Gear games, which to my knowledge no other game has really attempted. If you, like me, played Metal Gear 1 and 2 for the first time in Metal Gear July and wanted something else in that same style this has hit the mark for me so far.

I played MG1 and 2 for the first time in July too, but I don't get what about this game is more like them than MGS1, at least from the trailer

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Undetected







It should come as no surprise that your experience with Undetected is going to be heavily influenced by your prior interactions (if any) with the classic Metal Gear games (mind you, the dev did what he could to make it unique). Speaking for myself, I was not a console guy at that time so I was pretty much entirely new to this kind of stealth experience when I fired up Digerati's latest. So what did I think about it? Well, I wasn't crazy about it at first but it kind of grew on me. The story is insane in the *gestures towards all the 70s B-movies* kind of way. In Undetected, you are *checks notes*...a member of the revolutionary group 'Los Desplazados' in the year 2063, when the US and Mexico formed one megacountry, the Mexican-American Federation, or MAF, due to oppressive amounts of climate change and fracking galore. Your name is Tenoch Kaan, and it's up to you and your nifty cyber-eye to rescue the leader of Los Desplazados from the clutches of the ultra-capitalist corporation Cimacorp from the Chicxulub Perpetual Energy Station. Look at all those words!

Unfortunately, your handler doesn't yell "KAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!" when you die.

Unsurprisingly, your perspective as you sneak around is top-down which (like Winter Ember) takes a bit of getting used to - at least for me. When you lean against a wall, you get a third-person perspective and you can also hit shift to get a first-person view. You can't do anything in these views, though - it's just for scouting and seeing what's around the corner. Something that usually annoys me (and I make no secret of) is a lack of manual saves, but in Undetected, the checkpoints are so frequent that I can live with it. Mind you, sometimes this is because the corridors are tiny and it seems to save every time you transition. You start off stealthing around in the jungle environment, but eventually go deeper into the bowels of the Chicxulub reactor. This gives it an increasing atmosphere of suffocating oppression and claustrophobia, which is very immersive. If you get spotted, the guards are pretty relentless. They will keep chasing after you until either you're dead or you enter a new area - that last part is a bit silly, but I'll pretend it's part of the MGS charm. Although all of your methods of dealing with guards are nonlethal, they're all effective in their own way. Your gun can fire a blinding goo, incapacitating sponge bullets, and a flash which can blind enemies in a cone. You also get an assortment of grenades - decoys, shocks, noise distractors, and the like. The grenades can be a bit fiddly, since they will only fire in the direction you're facing and can be a bit unpredictable, but they nevertheless fit in well with your arsenal and can even the odds in a number of situations.

The boss fights were really neat - they're just brief enough to not overstay their welcome, and provide an interesting change to the gameplay loop. Usually they will involve an environmental challenge, the solution to which will be provided with subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) hints around the arena. For example, one boss will hide in the tall grass, but the game gives you access to shock grenades that you can use to flush him out in the open. The only exception was the last boss fight, which I feel doesn't give you a lot of feedback and you're left with a lot of trial and error (especially since he can one-shot you). For the rest of the gameplay, there's a temptation to rush through the levels in the hopes of not getting spotted, but this seems like a mistake. Undetected seems to reward a meticulous approach, one where you use all the resources at your disposal. Overall, I would say that if you have fond memories of the early MGS games, then this is a must-buy. For the rest, I think if you're not squeamish about top-down stealth and retro graphics, you should definitely give it a try, sale or no sale.

trying to jack off
Dec 31, 2007

cool, i'll wishlist that bad boy now

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011
Ah good, the latest Seventh Arrow review is fresh from the printers! Sounds cool - about what I was anticipating, so that's not bad. I did always enjoy MGS2 back in the day (didn't have a PS1, so I didn't play the original until much later) so I'll have to jump on Undetected once I've thinned down my backlog a little more. Personally, I've still got Aragami to go through, from the last sale - so we'll see how that pans out

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Yeah, Arigami is good - janky, but great stealth gameplay.

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

Seventh Arrow posted:

Undetected







It should come as no surprise that your experience with Undetected is going to be heavily influenced by your prior interactions (if any) with the classic Metal Gear games (mind you, the dev did what he could to make it unique). Speaking for myself, I was not a console guy at that time so I was pretty much entirely new to this kind of stealth experience when I fired up Digerati's latest. So what did I think about it? Well, I wasn't crazy about it at first but it kind of grew on me. The story is insane in the *gestures towards all the 70s B-movies* kind of way. In Undetected, you are *checks notes*...a member of the revolutionary group 'Los Desplazados' in the year 2063, when the US and Mexico formed one megacountry, the Mexican-American Federation, or MAF, due to oppressive amounts of climate change and fracking galore. Your name is Tenoch Kaan, and it's up to you and your nifty cyber-eye to rescue the leader of Los Desplazados from the clutches of the ultra-capitalist corporation Cimacorp from the Chicxulub Perpetual Energy Station. Look at all those words!

Unfortunately, your handler doesn't yell "KAAAAAAANNNNNN!!!" when you die.

Unsurprisingly, your perspective as you sneak around is top-down which (like Winter Ember) takes a bit of getting used to - at least for me. When you lean against a wall, you get a third-person perspective and you can also hit shift to get a first-person view. You can't do anything in these views, though - it's just for scouting and seeing what's around the corner. Something that usually annoys me (and I make no secret of) is a lack of manual saves, but in Undetected, the checkpoints are so frequent that I can live with it. Mind you, sometimes this is because the corridors are tiny and it seems to save every time you transition. You start off stealthing around in the jungle environment, but eventually go deeper into the bowels of the Chicxulub reactor. This gives it an increasing atmosphere of suffocating oppression and claustrophobia, which is very immersive. If you get spotted, the guards are pretty relentless. They will keep chasing after you until either you're dead or you enter a new area - that last part is a bit silly, but I'll pretend it's part of the MGS charm. Although all of your methods of dealing with guards are nonlethal, they're all effective in their own way. Your gun can fire a blinding goo, incapacitating sponge bullets, and a flash which can blind enemies in a cone. You also get an assortment of grenades - decoys, shocks, noise distractors, and the like. The grenades can be a bit fiddly, since they will only fire in the direction you're facing and can be a bit unpredictable, but they nevertheless fit in well with your arsenal and can even the odds in a number of situations.

The boss fights were really neat - they're just brief enough to not overstay their welcome, and provide an interesting change to the gameplay loop. Usually they will involve an environmental challenge, the solution to which will be provided with subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) hints around the arena. For example, one boss will hide in the tall grass, but the game gives you access to shock grenades that you can use to flush him out in the open. The only exception was the last boss fight, which I feel doesn't give you a lot of feedback and you're left with a lot of trial and error (especially since he can one-shot you). For the rest of the gameplay, there's a temptation to rush through the levels in the hopes of not getting spotted, but this seems like a mistake. Undetected seems to reward a meticulous approach, one where you use all the resources at your disposal. Overall, I would say that if you have fond memories of the early MGS games, then this is a must-buy. For the rest, I think if you're not squeamish about top-down stealth and retro graphics, you should definitely give it a try, sale or no sale.

Aye-aye, sir.

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

As I age I find myself believing that MG2 and MGS1 are by far the best ones so I’m not just joking. Though I might forget until this thread gets bumped when I’m at computer.

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Sneak Thief







It's garbage.

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

And all for the low low price of $21.50AUD! :D Yeah wow, that doesn't even look good, judging from those screenshots... I hope you were able to get a refund

trying to jack off
Dec 31, 2007


lmfao

Wormskull
Aug 23, 2009

Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

Major Isoor posted:

And all for the low low price of $21.50AUD! :D Yeah wow, that doesn't even look good, judging from those screenshots... I hope you were able to get a refund

It's the first game I've refunded on Steam. Truly dreadful. Everyone giving it a positive review is either lying or insane.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Seventh Arrow posted:

It's the first game I've refunded on Steam. Truly dreadful. Everyone giving it a positive review is either lying or insane.

Lmao

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011

Seventh Arrow posted:

It's the first game I've refunded on Steam. Truly dreadful. Everyone giving it a positive review is either lying or insane.

haha yeah, they're probably dev-owned burner accounts made to praise the game, in the hopes of luring in suckersbuyers :D

Michael Transactions
Nov 11, 2013

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009

Major Isoor
Mar 23, 2011
Started playing The Masterplan, which I had forgotten I bought ages ago, on sale. Not sure what to think yet - I've played a bunch of levels and they've all been pretty simple so far. Stuff like sticking up a convenience store and a bar.

It's a little janky with pathfinding and the way doors open/close, so eh it's not the best top-down stealth-puzzly kinda game. But I dunno, it seems alright so far - holding my interest, anyway. I do enjoy holding up the store owner (or a security guard) taking any keys and weapons off them, then locking them in closets. All with my toy pistol, as I haven't bought a real gun yet :v:

I hope it gets a little more mechanically complex soon though, otherwise I'm not sure whether I'll be able to get through it all. Since from what I can see, it seems like there are a fair few jobs before the end.

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Seventh Arrow
Jan 26, 2005

It looks kind of similar to Crookz - The Big Heist, even down to the time period. Have you tried that one?

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