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I never tried All or Nothing because it seemed like far too much of a risk since I'm always jumping in without realizing I'm out of cleave charges or something. That does sound cool though. I'm still bouncing between bird and lightning cat (??) as my two favorite classes right now. How are the DLC characters? I just bought the rabbit and am not really loving her thing.
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Sep 26, 2022 01:29
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I think they're both fun. Firefox is pretty much all skill damage, so you have to enjoy shooting fireballs or dropping meteors on people (I enjoy both a lot). Monkey seems like a gun platform, but a very good one. Maybe you can build around his primary skill, but I haven't tried that yet.
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Sep 26, 2022 01:40
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Both the DLC characters a pretty drat good, and unique in their own ways compared to the rest of the cast. Bunny, Bird, and Turtle are still my top three fave heros and probably always will be, just because they're the tankiest and thus synergize the most with my personal playstyle of entirely too much aggression. IMO Bunny doesn't start feeling really good unless you have all her hero talents, but especially the final one. Enemy kills starting your shield recharge and making it uninterruptable for 3 seconds makes her impressively durable, especially if you get some Sword Guard ascensions in game.
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Sep 26, 2022 01:53
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explosivo posted:I never tried All or Nothing because it seemed like far too much of a risk since I'm always jumping in without realizing I'm out of cleave charges or something. That does sound cool though. I'm still bouncing between bird and lightning cat (??) as my two favorite classes right now. the trick with All or Nothing (which is in fact quite good) is that the armor regen from Leap occurs immediately after All or Nothing uses up all your armor so you get a big damage burst and any benefits from armor break (most notably Last Stand and/or Nova Shockwave) without actually (effectively) taking yourself down to raw HP this means that a single level of Regen Hit turns All or Nothing from a high risk move into a fairly safe one (especially with other defensive Leap ascensions), and two levels means it is all upside - the difference is so stark that I'd essentially consider that level of Regen Hit a pre-requisite for taking All or Nothing
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Sep 26, 2022 02:49
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How does this compare to Risk of Rain 2? I tried getting in to that a couple months ago but it just didn't really click. I think the lack of meta progression made each individual run feel kind of pointless and I didn't make it too far. Sounds like this has a bit more in that vein, so maybe it would be more my jam.
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Sep 26, 2022 23:13
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They're kind of vastly different games imo, it's sort of hard to compare?
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Sep 27, 2022 01:05
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GFR is way more straightforward in that you're going room to room clearing out every enemy and sometimes a boss, picking up the loot and moving to the next stage. That said I find the class abilities and upgrades mesh very well together and the way the class upgrades are given out means usually you don't get your ideal loadout and may have to try something new. There's a lot of broken combos that you can stumble on and that's always fun too. Co-op is a blast as well if you can wrangle up some friends. There's a whole metaprogression talent tree that affects all classes that you upgrade between runs too so over time runs do get slightly easier. I'm only on the second difficulty out of 4 (?) though and I think there's even more of that once you get to the higher difficulties that I haven't even seen yet. Edit: I should clarify that when I say it's more straightforward I mean in a progression sense because it's basically moving from one room to the next instead of searching around the level for a portal and finding alternate paths, that kind of thing. The dev is I believe Chinese and there's some very questionable translations in some skill descriptions so you'll often be going "what the gently caress does that mean" when reading an item description. I think that lends itself to the charm though. explosivo fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 01:15
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I like RoR2 a lot, but I like this game better, especially for co-op. If you die in RoR2, you're just out of the action and falling behind until the next map. In GFR, you can revive fallen teammates, and it's only if you fail at that that someone has to sit and wait. The other main thing that makes me like GFR more is that runs are very distinct. In RoR2, your choice of character is pretty much the only real choice you make, and from there it's mostly luck which items you get. And even then, the items don't make that much of a difference in playstyle. In GFR, each character has at least a couple different builds, and each weapon is very distinct too. So you can play the same character several runs in a row and have a different experience each time.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:48
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Noper Q posted:The other main thing that makes me like GFR more is that runs are very distinct. In RoR2, your choice of character is pretty much the only real choice you make, and from there it's mostly luck which items you get. And even then, the items don't make that much of a difference in playstyle. In GFR, each character has at least a couple different builds, and each weapon is very distinct too. So you can play the same character several runs in a row and have a different experience each time. My friend I'm playing this with currently also played RoR2 with me and I was saying exactly this yesterday too. Runs feel different every time and it's fun having to roll with what you got. I know RoR2 has random pickups too but the class skill upgrades (ascensions) can really change things up. Something I forgot to mention is that you can loving SAVE a run between zones to come back to later. That alone is something I've wished for in RoR2 forever. Sometimes you just don't want to/can't commit 1-2 hours for a single run and being able to save makes that a non-issue.
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Sep 27, 2022 01:59
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Gonna toss in that a successful run can be way, way shorter than RoR2 as well. Sure RoR2 is all about the looping and theoretically you can beat the game much sooner than an hour, but generally an hour is like, the highest you should be taking a successful Gunfire run, maybe a bit more if you're doing a lot of backtracking or thinking. The 30 minute speedrun achievements are all very doable for good reason. Which tbf, you only need to beat the 3rd world's boss and head back to the Inn instead of doing the optional 4th world. Even so right around 35m-40 minutes is a general sweet spot for being able to secure a "win" and all your essence up to that point, the 4th world is more like a bonus challenge world than anything else. Lets you check and see if your build is any good or not.
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Sep 27, 2022 02:45
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Just had an unbelievable Elite win to unlock Nightmare with me on lightning cat and my friend on turtle where everything went in our favor and we just cruised through the 4th world and killed the last boss with ease. I think my bow was +26 for that boss battle. It truly feels amazing when everything clicks and you become an unstoppable death machine, especially so when you're in co-op and it happens to each of us independently.
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Sep 27, 2022 04:17
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Hell yeah! Though pro-tip for you and anyone else pushing difficulty: beating the third world boss and heading back to the Inn also counts as a win for the purposes of unlocking the next difficulty, including Nightmare -> Reincarnation. in case you get a run you feel couldn't handle Jokul.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:13
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Evil Kit posted:Hell yeah! Though pro-tip for you and anyone else pushing difficulty: beating the third world boss and heading back to the Inn also counts as a win for the purposes of unlocking the next difficulty, including Nightmare -> Reincarnation. in case you get a run you feel couldn't handle Jokul. I did see you post that last night which I appreciate because I had no idea you even had the option, I assumed beating the 4th stage was just an Elite and up requirement to win a run. By the time my friend and I beat the 3rd stage we were both already feeling untouchable and decided to roll the dice and press on. Good thing too because it really was a breeze. explosivo fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 13:48
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explosivo posted:I did see you post that last night which I appreciate because I had no idea you even had the option, I assumed it was just an Elite and up requirement to win a run. By the time my friend and I beat the 3rd stage we were both already feeling untouchable and decided to roll the dice and press on. Good thing too because it really was a breeze. No problem! For a long, long time there were only 3 world's so for me at least Jokul is very much a bonus zone to have fun in. It's a fun romp for a completed build. Hubris still beckons of course. It always does.
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Sep 27, 2022 13:53
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Evil Kit posted:Hell yeah! Though pro-tip for you and anyone else pushing difficulty: beating the third world boss and heading back to the Inn also counts as a win for the purposes of unlocking the next difficulty, including Nightmare -> Reincarnation. in case you get a run you feel couldn't handle Jokul. Oh, nice to know. Although usually if I beat third world boss, I can beat Jokul. I think I only died twice in Jokul, ever.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:04
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FWIW, there are mods to fix the lack of respawning and the lack of mid-run saves in RoR2. I think it has a little bit more depth/variety than people give it credit for; its itemization absolutely can have the same decision making thrill as picking between ascensions in Gunfire for instance. But it's definitely held back by a lot of issues. For one, I think the game fundamentally breaks down in casual co-op and it has a fairly rigid metagame even in solo play. Its character roster is also a mess, and the one meaningful bit of meta-progression attached to them, the alternate skills, are A) downright hair-yanking, blood-boiling frustrating to unlock and B) poorly balanced. The DLC characters are a smidge better overall. While Gunfire has a few clunker ascensions, I'm honestly impressed at how thoroughly well designed the kits tend to be. Particularly the later characters where, at the cost of some added confusion/complexity (Monkey's weapon bonuses  ), they managed to tie everything together really well.
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Sep 27, 2022 20:53
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John Murdoch posted:While Gunfire has a few clunker ascensions, I'm honestly impressed at how thoroughly well designed the kits tend to be. Particularly the later characters where, at the cost of some added confusion/complexity (Monkey's weapon bonuses I'm actually hard pressed to think of terrible ascensions now that the dog only has one grenade-exclusive ascension. I guess Crown Prince has Energy Echo and Backpack Expansion. Shadow Knight on Lei Luo maybe?
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Sep 28, 2022 02:11
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Backpack Expansion is great, especially for me, the person spamming smoke grenades. I think Bunny has a few Fatal Bloom ascensions that are kinda meh. I'd say each hero generally has at least one 1 point ascension that is kinda meh to just worse than any other choice.
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Sep 28, 2022 02:48
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I would say there are vanishingly few outright bad ascensions, but a fair few mediocre ones. I think it's also worth pointing out that the exact value of some of them ends up changing depending on difficulty, talents, spiritual blessings, and/or spirit links. And more granular still, it's easy to pick apart ones where tier 2 is especially limp and/or tier 3 is winmore. A lot of the +secondary charges ones have tier 3s that are hard to justify, but even Cat can do with a few extra grenades sometimes, especially absent any scrolls to help generate more. There's also something to be said for ones with more significant dependencies (All or Nothing being an obvious example), ones that are overly fussy and complicated (like half of Turtle's, a lot of Fox's primary ability stuff), and ones that are just plain boring (+HP on Dog).
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Sep 28, 2022 03:36
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Ah, knew there was a weird compound chance ascension somewhere that was really bugging me: Fox's Unceasing Blaze has a 50% chance to restore a use when Meteor inflicts burning...which is itself a 50% chance. Mind you, Fox doesn't necessarily need to be buffed and I'm guessing it can do some wacky poo poo if you spec into the other meteor spam stuff alongside it, but that's a good example of a wonky bit of design.
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Sep 30, 2022 02:19
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Picked this up a few days ago and have been really enjoying it. I asked about it in relation to Risk of Rain 2 but you guys were definitely right, this feels more like a run-based Borderlands than RoR. Got a few wins on normal (Cat / Fox / Monkey) before moving up to elite and getting a lucky win with Monkey - had Converged Flows with a nasty rocket launcher that never needed to be reloaded. Now I'm on Nightmare and it feels... significantly more difficult. Like "I don't have enough ammo to kill this elite" levels of difficult. I don't have the talent tree filled out yet so there's still a little Lucky Shot and Crit Multi left on the offense path so I guess that should help? Elite difficulty felt alright but my first several runs on Nightmare have felt very bullet-spongy
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Sep 30, 2022 19:26
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You're not imagining it; Nightmare is a big step up. It's worth it to get through and start playing with the toys that Reincarnation give you, but sticking to Elite until you feel more comfortable with your own skills and the skill tree isn't a bad idea. As others said upthread, you can cash in your Nightmare win after the third boss.
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Sep 30, 2022 19:35
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MerrMan posted:Picked this up a few days ago and have been really enjoying it. I asked about it in relation to Risk of Rain 2 but you guys were definitely right, this feels more like a run-based Borderlands than RoR. I suspect you had a bit of luck and beat Elite before you were supposed to, progression wise, so now the Nightmare difficulty seems very harsh (and like Noper said, the gap to Nightmare is in fact big, by itself). Just stay on Elite for a dozen runs more.
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Sep 30, 2022 19:51
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On Nightmare and up you have to start thinking of your act 1 build (and possibly into act 2) more in terms of how you can beat the Elites or sometimes even how well you can handle a dragon chase. Piercing for Elite Horsehead and a corrosive weapon for Elite Spearman start to become essential rather than just handy to have. Also worth noting you can just nope out of vaults at will. Non-shielded elites can even be cheesed a bit by dancing in and out as needed.
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Sep 30, 2022 22:11
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Question of my own: Who do y'all think is the best choice for the Reincarnation with no blessings cheevo? I'm thinking Bird or Turtle on account of them usually being able to reach unkillability, but it still seems like it might take some added luck from the phantom peddler and getting good bosses.
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Sep 30, 2022 22:14
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Turin Turambar posted:I suspect you had a bit of luck and beat Elite before you were supposed to, progression wise, so now the Nightmare difficulty seems very harsh (and like Noper said, the gap to Nightmare is in fact big, by itself). Just stay on Elite for a dozen runs more. I think I had this exact problem starting out too and actually asked about it in the thread. We technically beat some difficulty modes easily but then ran into a wall on the next difficulty because we hadnt unlocked all the generic and hero ascensions yet. Some of those, especially the hero ascensions, make a huge difference. John Murdoch posted:Question of my own: Who do y'all think is the best choice for the Reincarnation with no blessings cheevo? I'm thinking Bird or Turtle on account of them usually being able to reach unkillability, but it still seems like it might take some added luck from the phantom peddler and getting good bosses. Crown prince is very versatile so you can roll with what RNG blesses you with
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Sep 30, 2022 22:45
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John Murdoch posted:Question of my own: Who do y'all think is the best choice for the Reincarnation with no blessings cheevo? I'm thinking Bird or Turtle on account of them usually being able to reach unkillability, but it still seems like it might take some added luck from the phantom peddler and getting good bosses. Whatever you're most comfortable with. If I remember correctly I did it with a Bird slap build, because none of his personal spiritual blessings are totally necessary for letting him do ridiculous damage with it. Also as you mentioned he is ridiculously tanky naturally and gets more so with minor investments in specific ascensions, with Easy Kill letting you scale up infinitetly. Hell, it's even easier to pull off slap build now since Easy Kill is retroactive, you can just kill everything with slaps even without it and still benefit when you finally pick it up. Such an insane QoL buff, glad they finally put it in.
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Oct 1, 2022 00:43
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Fishstick posted:Crown prince is very versatile so you can roll with what RNG blesses you with I don't really see it. His lack of movement speed is a massive detriment to survival and 2/3 of his exclusive blessings radically shore up his limitations such that giving them up is way too much of a handicap. If you can make it past act 2, you're probably in the clear, but getting to that point is one hell of a hurdle. Evil Kit posted:Hell, it's even easier to pull off slap build now since Easy Kill is retroactive, you can just kill everything with slaps even without it and still benefit when you finally pick it up. Such an insane QoL buff, glad they finally put it in. Tangentially related, it also helps that spirit links exist now. Though I guess the bigger problem for the moment is that I'm still farming up for the last few talents and don't have enough essence to splash around for phantom peddler buys anyway. Edit: Suddenly realizing that nothing in the achievement description explicitly says it has to be a solo run. 🤔 John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Oct 1, 2022 |
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Oct 1, 2022 01:27
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John Murdoch posted:I don't really see it. His lack of movement speed is a massive detriment to survival and 2/3 of his exclusive blessings radically shore up his limitations such that giving them up is way too much of a handicap. If you can make it past act 2, you're probably in the clear, but getting to that point is one hell of a hurdle. R1 isn't particularly hard and its *very* easy for prince to clear the first act since he can guarantee himself high damage elemental combos with any decent lightning or fire weapon (and tombs imo movement speed is less important in act 1 than in subsequent acts due to the ease with which you can break los in most rooms/etc.), though I'll agree that crown prince wouldn't be my personal pick for the reasons you list + not particularly impressive defensive ascensions and also because (imo) the best way to get that achievement in the fewest runs is to abuse the spore gemini with a high damage shotgun (offhand) + injector (mainhand) since you 100% don't need spiritual blessings to stay above the curve with damage and can favor defensive scrolls/ascensions - get (or reroll until you get) an argus as your starting weapon and it basically just becomes a matter of not dying stupidly in the longling tombs LGD fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Oct 1, 2022 |
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Oct 1, 2022 02:35
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I mean, I don't think the issue is tombs. It's that desert will just up and kill you sometimes and both boss fights can turn into absolute nightmares for Prince if you don't show up already OP or haven't managed to find some kind of extra mobility beforehand. Ichthyosaur especially has some awfully narrow margins for error if you don't have anything to work with. Just did a nightmare practice/farm run with Prince that ran into that. Also did a Bird practice run and found out that Corrupt Monks' lanterns can be infinitely farmed with Easy Kill, which seems like a massive albeit time consuming exploit. First frame unlocked! John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Oct 1, 2022 |
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Oct 1, 2022 03:55
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Well, naturally after poo-pooing it I just went ahead and did it anyway. Early Advanced Depot certainly helped. Predictably, I died once to Wind God but I had the full combo going by then and it was just a matter of not screwing up at the tail end of act 3. Had a few butt-pucker moments (including my usual need to get hit by at least one serpent rush) but hey, it worked. Not only is that out of the way, it also got me to level 178. I can start actually enjoying Reincarnation! 
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Oct 1, 2022 06:14
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dfsdhfkjsdhfhsdfsd Naturally, an S+++ tier drop like this could only come from the Pole Monarch himself. This run was also my most broken to date. Prince with the smoke grenade blessing + both links. Elemental Orb + its link. And then Flesh and Bones + Sanguine Relic + Spirit Feline making me unkillable. Oh, and a Tombs phantom peddler with a 97% lightning sword, elemental shared ASAP. Just the most grotesque pile of bullshit.
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Oct 4, 2022 01:46
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That's probably the single most busted gun I've seen to date lol. That's hilarious, what a huge gently caress you for it to drop from Bear.
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Oct 4, 2022 02:01
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Okay, definitely feeling the weird stratification caused by new stuff being stacked on top of old stuff. Granted, maybe Lei Luo's frame challenge isn't that hard to begin with, but I didn't expect to sleepwalk through it. But blessings, links, and even Mysterious Jokul will do that. Mysterious Jokul is particularly odd to me because I originally assumed it would make the game noticeably harder but...it really doesn't. If anything it makes it way easier because I'll gladly take a double elite fight over certain rooms (especially in desert) and I end up with even more ascensions and scrolls. Plus more shop rerolls! Which snowballs into utterly stomping Jokul once I get there. Granted, I'm sure that changes once you're in high reincarnation and elites start having tons and tons of HP, but I'm happy to keep loving around on lower levels. My build for that run was also hilarious. Unintentionally I kept going "that looks nice, that fits what I'm doing right now, oh that'll give me a good link" until by the end I nearly had 1 point in every single one of his ascensions. Worked way better than I would've ever expected.
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Oct 5, 2022 02:43
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The OG Tiger frame challenge was to do it only on Nightmare. Way, way harder. I do think MJ and Spiritual Links are just easy buffs to you, the player at least on solo. haven't tried them much at all multi
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Oct 5, 2022 03:47
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I still dont like the frames that require you to do them solo, very weird choice for what is ostensibly a coop game.
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Oct 5, 2022 10:36
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<Roboquest post> It seems the game is improving slowly, if only because in the last months they have been 'gunfire-reborn-ing' it. From just the last two big updates: -Last update added a dozen new enemies. -They are going to introduce elemental variants -changed enemies per level so there is more general enemy variety in a given level -new alternate boss -Improved recoil pattern in weapons -Weapons can have affixes, and they removed the old color categories -items with stats like scrolls in GR, instead of passive buffs color stats like before -shopkeepers npcs , where to buy a weapon or reroll affixes -health sytem worked -xp orbs removed, now they are health orbs (so it forces you less into one playstyle)
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Oct 5, 2022 10:57
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Evil Kit posted:The OG Tiger frame challenge was to do it only on Nightmare. Way, way harder. Spiritual links get even better in multiplayer because you can trade scrolls around to help each other complete them
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Oct 5, 2022 14:44
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Spiritual links get even better in multiplayer because you can trade scrolls around to help each other complete them That makes sense actually. I'm still kind of surprised there isn't a downside to having either Bizarre Dream option on, at least it does make the game more fun.
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Oct 5, 2022 15:53
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There's a particularly good link if you can nab at least three of the co-op exclusive scrolls, too. Buffs the whole team. Mysterious Jokul hits a bit differently in co-op. The final elite rush is a huge clusterfuck (I think last night it was three mandrills and two snipers? enhanced ones, mind  ) and unlike in solo Monarch gets a shadow clone at each boost phase, on top of his other buffs.Granted it was also R6, so stuff was properly loving tanky by that point too. Fishstick posted:I still dont like the frames that require you to do them solo, very weird choice for what is ostensibly a coop game. Is it though? I know a lot of folks play co-op, sure, but this isn't like Left4Dead or something where playing solo is a vastly diminished experience such that it's "wrong". And obviously the solo-only challenges would kinda lose their teeth if you could do them in co-op. Granted, the only one of the three that I think is well designed is Lei Luo's. John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Oct 6, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 00:26
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