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Oh yeah Odium is Boros, forgot that.
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Oct 4, 2022 07:39
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It's still weird to me that Odium is the original, official name of a personality shard of deific power compared to the others. Like, there's a bunch of impulses and domains, and then one is just "rear end in a top hat"? All of the others have puts and takes in terms of being helpful or harmful, but one is pure dickery? Even honor is showing some downsides in RoW with some scenes in the spren cities. tl;dr, I have to think that Taravodium is going to reveal that the shard really is Passion or something more neutral and Rayse really was just a bastard who brought out the worst aspects of it. Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Oct 4, 2022 |
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Oct 4, 2022 14:55
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Infinite Karma posted:It's still weird to me that Odium is the original, official name of a personality shard of deific power compared to the others. Like, there's a bunch of impulses and domains, and then one is just "rear end in a top hat"? All of the others have puts and takes in terms of being helpful or harmful, but one is pure dickery? I mean, nominative determinism is a thing. Not a real thing backed up by science, but nonetheless a concept with a long tradition. (See also the original name for Scar in The Lion King: Taka, which can translate to “waste/garbage”. With a name like that, what were his parents expecting him to be?)
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Oct 4, 2022 15:31
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Infinite Karma posted:It's still weird to me that Odium is the original, official name of a personality shard of deific power compared to the others. Like, there's a bunch of impulses and domains, and then one is just "rear end in a top hat"? All of the others have puts and takes in terms of being helpful or harmful, but one is pure dickery? Even honor is showing some downsides in RoW with some scenes in the spren cities. I'm sure most people here have read up to what you're referencing but it still makes sense to spoiler it all, just in case.
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Oct 4, 2022 15:40
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The shard isn't Passion, it's Brodium
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Oct 4, 2022 15:45
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For real, my read on that shard's insistence on talking about passion stems less from that being its original scope, but rather that Rayse is lying to themself about whether they're the villain in their story. .... maybe that's actually even more evidence that the original scope was different, huh. With everyone who is aware of shards and vessels in the Cosmere talking about how the shard almost always ends up steering changes in the vessel, Rayse strikes me as perhaps the one dude who was strong-willed enough to subtly bend the shard, twisting passion into passionate hatred I'm also starting to think that perhaps the shards desire to reunite, perhaps explaining why vessels kept breaking their agreement to stay isolated, or why Preservation and Ruin were attracted into a single vessel rather than selecting separate new vessels. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Oct 4, 2022 |
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Oct 4, 2022 15:47
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Potato Salad posted:For real, my read on that shard's insistence on talking about passion stems less from that being its original scope, but rather that Rayse is lying to themself about whether they're the villain in their story. Also, it seems really likely that Dalinar is going to un-splinter Honor and he or Kaladin is going to take up the shard in the fifth book.
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Oct 4, 2022 16:00
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Perhaps wrath is a better descriptor. We know odium is what his enemies call him, rather than being the inherent name.
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Oct 4, 2022 16:30
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Infinite Karma posted:I agree, but it also doesn't make sense that one shard is just all the evil of Adonalsium sectioned off. It's not congruent with the rest of the mythology. If not Passion, Disorder or Freedom or something. Even if Odium wanted to see themselves as a hero, when they're clearly not, there's got to be more to the story. See but Odium doesn't mean evil, it means intense dislike for other people or things. That's not necessarily evil in itself. It exists in all of us, but it's typically balanced by a lot of other considerations - like honor, or a drive to maintain social norms. As an isolated aspect, though, it's no wonder that Odium would quickly spiral into hatred and evil acts. So I think it's another brick in a path towards showing why Adonalsium has to be patched back up, because none of the aspects (even Harmony) can exist safely or competently in isolation. Sorry for the big spoiler block, I'm phoneposting and it's a pain to open and close a lot of tags. I'm enjoying the Lost Metal chapters, though I'd forgotten how much the pacing differs in Wax & Wayne.
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Oct 4, 2022 17:35
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Wrapped up Words of Radiance last night. What a finish! Dragging rear end at work today cause I had to stay up till the end. Excited to start Edgedancer and see what these novellas are all about.
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Oct 4, 2022 17:59
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Has this thread covered the fact that Sanderson has constructed a underground lair next to his house? Found this article about it https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2022/10/02/brandon-sanderson-built-an-underground-lair-in-suburban-utah/ which has some wild pictures. There was an interview a while back that has film from inside it - but I completely missed if the thread already covered it because its absolutely wild. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvFNy4sVXM0
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Oct 4, 2022 19:11
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CK07 posted:See but Odium doesn't mean evil, it means intense dislike for other people or things. That's not necessarily evil in itself. It exists in all of us, but it's typically balanced by a lot of other considerations - like honor, or a drive to maintain social norms. As an isolated aspect, though, it's no wonder that Odium would quickly spiral into hatred and evil acts. So I think it's another brick in a path towards showing why Adonalsium has to be patched back up, because none of the aspects (even Harmony) can exist safely or competently in isolation. Yeah, I definitely think things are going in this direction. We'll see if I get my hopes of Harmony becoming a lot less nice but regardless of that plot i think we're going to see lots of other theoretically-okay Shards be real nightmares. like Mercy and Valor and Invention and Virtuosity and Whimsy can all potentially go very sideways
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Oct 4, 2022 23:14
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eke out posted:Yeah, I definitely think things are going in this direction. We'll see if I get my hopes of Harmony becoming a lot less nice but regardless of that plot i think we're going to see lots of other theoretically-okay Shards be real nightmares. like Mercy and Valor and Invention and Virtuosity and Whimsy can all potentially go very sideways So can Honor and Cultivation.
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Oct 5, 2022 01:03
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Ragaduffin posted:Has this thread covered the fact that Sanderson has constructed a underground lair next to his house? Found this article about it https://www.calnewport.com/blog/2022/10/02/brandon-sanderson-built-an-underground-lair-in-suburban-utah/ which has some wild pictures. Leng posted:In his newsletter he talked about building a huge underground secret lair for gaming, etc in his house, so he is doing just fine, don't you worry: I don't think we made a big deal about it because it's just very Brandon and also GRRM was battling it out with the Santa Fe council who rejected his development application to turn his house into mini-Winterfell or Kings Landing or something. (I might have my timeline mixed up.)
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Oct 5, 2022 02:22
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eke out posted:like Mercy and Valor and Invention and Virtuosity and Whimsy can all potentially go very sideways Whimsy? WHIMSY? Is it canon that that exists?! If so, I bet people on that planet are hosed beyond belief. Like, Delirium from Sandman but in charge of the entire world. Like the cornfields episode of the twilight zone on a global scale. e: I looked, it's canon. That's going to be interesting.
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Oct 5, 2022 07:20
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Frost described Rayse/Odium as “He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context.” Given Frost was around when they split up Adonalasium, thats probably at least in part accurate.
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Oct 5, 2022 11:11
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Regarding the two "bad" gods we've met so far: honestly, they're both understandable. Odium is divine wrath untempered by divine mercy, Ruin is the knowledge that all things must die without the corresponding knowledge that all things must live. Similarly, it's easy to tell how any of the "good" ones could go/are going bad -- Autonomy has gone entirely isolationist, Cultivation doesn't necessarily care what she grows, Preservation thought the Lord Ruler was the most awesome dude because he was an immortal tyrant who intentionally locked society into strict castes and stagnated it, etc., etc. I think it's kinda very much Sanderson's entire point that these are all fundamentally bad ideas, and Adonalasium should never have been split in the first place and needs to be rejoined. Anyway, I don't know if anyone's been following the Stormlight minis kickstarter, but they just revealed an official design for Lift:  Not what I expected -- I know she has long hair but that's longer than I expected, and both the hat and the jacket seem a bit too fussy for her, but it works. (There's also an official design for Kaladin's shardplate there.)
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Oct 6, 2022 20:07
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CapnAndy posted:Regarding the two "bad" gods we've met so far: honestly, they're both understandable. Odium is divine wrath untempered by divine mercy, Ruin is the knowledge that all things must die without the corresponding knowledge that all things must live. Similarly, it's easy to tell how any of the "good" ones could go/are going bad -- Autonomy has gone entirely isolationist, Cultivation doesn't necessarily care what she grows, Preservation thought the Lord Ruler was the most awesome dude because he was an immortal tyrant who intentionally locked society into strict castes and stagnated it, etc., etc. I think it's kinda very much Sanderson's entire point that these are all fundamentally bad ideas, and Adonalasium should never have been split in the first place and needs to be rejoined. I have always pictured lift in basically a smock and a basic jacket, that is way fancier than I expected! I mean, it's not fancy, but I didn't really expect any sense of style at all.
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Oct 6, 2022 20:10
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ConfusedUs posted:I have always pictured lift in basically a smock and a basic jacket, that is way fancier than I expected! I mean, it's not fancy, but I didn't really expect any sense of style at all.
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Oct 6, 2022 20:17
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CapnAndy posted:Regarding the two "bad" gods we've met so far: honestly, they're both understandable. Odium is divine wrath untempered by divine mercy, Ruin is the knowledge that all things must die without the corresponding knowledge that all things must live. Similarly, it's easy to tell how any of the "good" ones could go/are going bad -- Autonomy has gone entirely isolationist, Cultivation doesn't necessarily care what she grows, Preservation thought the Lord Ruler was the most awesome dude because he was an immortal tyrant who intentionally locked society into strict castes and stagnated it, etc., etc. I think it's kinda very much Sanderson's entire point that these are all fundamentally bad ideas, and Adonalasium should never have been split in the first place and needs to be rejoined. This was always my impression as well and thus why Wit is the wisest of all beings in the Cosmere. He alone forsook this unfathomable but ultimately self-destructive power. But Wit himself contrasts Ruin and Odium in that Ruin was originally a good man corrupted by his singular aspect of Adonalsium, while Rayse was always a shithead. His actions seem to show this since he has gone more out of his way than anybody to do great harm, even going after to kill other Shard holders right after the whole thing started. But yeah, even combining the two corresponding/contrasting aspects into one like Sazed did has only led to more problems. It just seems like any taking up of the Shards is a bad idea.
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Oct 6, 2022 20:23
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CapnAndy posted:Anyway, I don't know if anyone's been following the Stormlight minis kickstarter, but they just revealed an official design for Lift Fuuuuuuck, I want all of those but can't justify paying so much money. Also, lol at the 50k funding goal, and the nice 3 million already pledged. Never change, Sanderson.
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Oct 6, 2022 20:41
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NikkolasKing posted:
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Oct 6, 2022 20:54
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Can people periodically note outside their spoilers what books/content is the source of the information contained within? I thought this current run of spoiler posts was due to a new book preview (too lazy to go back and check), but the post right above mine is okay for anyone who has read the first Mistborn trilogy (right?).
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Oct 6, 2022 20:59
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^^ that's a great suggestion and, for what it's worth, seconded Like, for example, Renarin (Rhythm of War) is gay and full of feelings and I love it.
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Oct 6, 2022 21:20
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CapnAndy posted:Regarding the two "bad" gods we've met so far: honestly, they're both understandable. Preservation thought the Lord Ruler was the most awesome dude because he was an immortal tyrant who intentionally locked society into strict castes and stagnated it, etc., etc. I You have this one a bit backwards. (Mistborn arc 1 and 2 spoilers) The Lord Ruler is that way because of Preservation's power imprinting on them during the brief period they wielded the Shard's power. It's why he's driven to preserve the world as it is. IIRC Harmony makes a comment to this effect at some point as well in Lost Metal or Shadows of Self.
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Oct 6, 2022 22:29
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And can I jusr say, on the topic of Wit, I'd like to pick some peoples' brains on this. Stormlight spoilers. Do you think Wit is a good person? Do you think there's any currency to the idea he'll be a villain or even THE villain like some people predict? I don't pretend to be some great analyst or predicter but nothing I picked up on in my two runs through TSA made me think of Hoid as anything but an eccentric, somewhat detached. but ultimately benevolent figure. He's not as emphatic as Kaladin or as straight-laced as Dalinar but this can be chalked up to the eternities he's lived. All that being said, he never once came off as cruel or ruthless to my mind and while I am ambivalent about Shallan, her interactions with him are the most telling when it comes to his fundamental "humanity." He's supremely awkward when she rushes to hug him but he doesn't turn her away. He goes to her when every good deed she attempts blows up in her face in Oathbringer. I find these moments very sweet and indicative of his essentially good nature. Granted, I think I saw these predictions of him being evil before RoW so maybe that's all gone out the window now. A lot went out the window with that book's ending. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Oct 7, 2022 |
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Oct 6, 2022 22:52
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NikkolasKing posted:And can I jusr say, on the topic of Wit, I'd like to pick some peoples' brains on this. Stormlight spoilers. i think sanderson has too much fun writing him as A Bastard But Basically Good, but if we get real bad actions from him it'll be out of terrifying moral calculus and conviction rather than him being fundamentally Bad
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Oct 6, 2022 23:06
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NikkolasKing posted:And can I jusr say, on the topic of Wit, I'd like to pick some peoples' brains on this. Stormlight spoilers. I could see him becoming an antagonist by the end since he's been very upfront that his goals are not the same as the goals of our protagonists. He helps them right now because that's the best way to further his own goals, or at least doesn't contradict them, but once Odium is taken care of who knows what his ultimate goal is
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Oct 6, 2022 23:08
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Evil Fluffy posted:You have this one a bit backwards. (Mistborn arc 1 and 2 spoilers) The Lord Ruler is that way because of Preservation's power imprinting on them during the brief period they wielded the Shard's power. It's why he's driven to preserve the world as it is. IIRC Harmony makes a comment to this effect at some point as well in Lost Metal or Shadows of Self. mistborn 1 he was always super racist though, his ideology of 'people with magical power should rule over those who lack it' is consistent
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Oct 6, 2022 23:14
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NikkolasKing posted:And can I jusr say, on the topic of Wit, I'd like to pick some peoples' brains on this. Stormlight spoilers. I think he's Adonalasium incarnate, who participated in his own Shattering for Reasons, and is working towards his own rejoining for Reasons.
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Oct 6, 2022 23:30
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Evil Fluffy posted:makes a comment to this effect at some point as well in Lost Metal or Shadows of Self. !!! Do you have something to tell us, Evil Fluffy?? Are you one of Brandon's Beta readers??? NikkolasKing posted:And can I jusr say, on the topic of Wit, I'd like to pick some peoples' brains on this. Stormlight spoilers. Stormlight spoilers: I don't think he's a villain or THE VILLAIN, but I think he's considerably more gray than Kaladin or Dalinar. He and Jasnah are pretty well matched in that regard, which isn't a surprise. She was very willing to find a Herald and simply kill them, which horrified Kaladin, showing off their relative ethics. Wit told Dalinar to his face that he would let Roshar burn in order to keep Odium imprisoned. It can certainly be argued that this would be a necessary if difficult decision, but it places him in a different spot, morality wise, from Kaladin for example. He's not a bad person at all, and will try to make things better even for (to him) unimportant people. Awakening that doll to lure the little girl away from the corpse of her mother was an extremely good deed. Yet he is prepared to sacrifice a lot of people to realize his big goals. He's one of the good guys, for sure, but not as "pure", if that's the right word, as Kaladin or Dalinar (which is pretty ironic in the latter's case). Also, spoilers about the general outline for Stormlight Archive books 6-10 that Brandon gave in an interview: Book 10 will have the Jasnah flashbacks, which I'm pretty unhappy about, given the tantalizing hints about Jasnah's past. Do I really need to wait for the very last SA book to learn of the horrible event in her childhood she alluded to in Oathbringer??? And lastly, Brandon has said that The Lost Metal will be the most Cosmere aware book he has written to date, which is a bit surprising given Rhythm of War being pretty Cosmere heavy. And given that Mistborn wasn't that Cosmere heavy before. He also kind of revealed what the primary Cosmere connection will be (full Cosmere spoilers): It will be with a work from Arcanum Unbounded. Which covers a lot of ground, but let's narrow it down. Sixth of the Dusk and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell are interesting, but probably not the primary connection. Both worlds lack shards, and it's unclear if Threnody even has a perpendicularity. Since another shard is clearly fighting Harmony, they're out as primary connections imho. And I don't think silver is the eponymous Lost Metal. Hope of Elantris and Emperors Soul are also interesting, but have a similar "problem". Both of Sel's shards are splintered, so they are unlikely to be behind the attack on Scadrial. Which imho leaves Edgedancer for Roshar, the White Sand excerpt for Taldain. Perhaps also Secret History for the general Cosmere awareness, and the Silverlight people. The direct quote from Brandon is: "[L]et's just say that if you have read Arcanum Unbounded, you have read the main reference point that you would want to know for Lost Metal." Which means something in one of the short stories itself will be the important bit to have read? Which makes me question what I've written before. Nothin in Edgedancer stands out to be particularly Cosmere important, apart from the Sleepless, who get explored in much more detail in Dawnshard. And while the White Sand excerpt introduced us to Taldain, it didn't mention Autonomy at all iirc, and I can't imagine Sand Mastery to be an important story beat in Lost Metal. Could it all come back to Secret History? I'm thrown by the shard attacking Scadrial, and "Trell". How could the shard we think is masquerading as Trell not be the main story beat, and which Arcanum Unbounded work deals with shards? All the red is a sign of corrupted investiture, did we see corrupted investiture that didn't originate with a shard? There's a god-metal rendering spiked people immune to being controlled by Harmony. Was that somehow Forged? Is the Ire the organization behind the Set? But where would they get Kandra of their own? Overall, that reveal only creates more questions than answers for me, but it's fun to speculate. What do the goons itt think?
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Oct 6, 2022 23:52
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Torrannor posted:!!! i think the AU reference point is kelsier’s afterlife journey
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Oct 7, 2022 01:31
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CapnAndy posted:I have an admittedly out-there theory on Wit. I think he's God. I haven't read any Stormlight Archive yet, but I've read pretty much all non-SA and up until this point, I figured that the "twist" of the Cosmere would be that Hoid (who I guess is named Wit in SA) was actually Adonalasium but maybe with amnesia or something. So I'm glad I'm not the only one to think that.
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Oct 7, 2022 01:43
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I was under the impression that (full Cosmere, since I don’t remember the source) Wit/Hoid is predated by some sort of white dragon thing, meaning he can’t be Adonalsium—what could predate the literal creator? Edit: I appear to be right. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Frost <— This link will obviously contain spoilers for darn near the entire Cosmere released to date. You’ve been warned. Grundulum fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 7, 2022 |
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Oct 7, 2022 01:54
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Grundulum posted:I was under the impression that (full Cosmere, since I don’t remember the source) Wit/Hoid is predated by some sort of white dragon thing, meaning he can’t be Adonalsium—what could predate the literal creator? Do I really have to point out the precedent for God incarnating himself as a human being while still also remaining God to carry out some sort of plan that, to a Mormon, would include traveling to other planets? (General Cosmere spoilers)
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Oct 7, 2022 03:13
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Torrannor posted:Could it all come back to Secret History? I'm thrown by the shard attacking Scadrial, and "Trell". How could the shard we think is masquerading as Trell not be the main story beat, and which Arcanum Unbounded work deals with shards? All the red is a sign of corrupted investiture, did we see corrupted investiture that didn't originate with a shard? There's a god-metal rendering spiked people immune to being controlled by Harmony. Was that somehow Forged? Is the Ire the organization behind the Set? But where would they get Kandra of their own? (Continued general Cosmere spoilers) While the most likely scenario for Trell is either Autonomy or a freed Odium, I’m starting to think more and more that Trell isn’t actually a shard, and is instead something else on the same power level as a shard. What that is, I have no idea - I just think with so many other Cosmere concepts that have only been alluded to outside of the main works (Aethers, the Dawnshards, whoever the Sleepless are opposing, etc.), that there are secrets Sanderson has been keeping from us and that there are other Cosmere activities and plots we’re not aware of yet.
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Oct 7, 2022 04:52
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I'm feeling like that villain who (Alloy of Law) compounds gold feruchemy and allomancy was very deliberately given dialogue intended to signal to us that there's some legitimate old gods poo poo going on, possibly the kind of entities (Secret History) Frost and others struggled with pre-shattering.
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Oct 7, 2022 13:28
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I was re-reading a post I made after finishing RoW. ....It was two years ago. Wow. Time flies. When is the next book coming out?
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Oct 7, 2022 14:01
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NikkolasKing posted:I was re-reading a post I made after finishing RoW. Fall 2024 is the currently planned release window for Stormlight 5. My guess is it will release on Thanksgiving week to coincide with dragnonsteel con.
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Oct 7, 2022 14:40
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Torrannor posted:!!! No I meant bands of mourning because of the convos between Harmony and Wax and mixed up which book is which. Though it's going to be really funny if that ends up being a thing in Lost Metal too.
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Oct 7, 2022 17:30
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