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sharknado slashfic)
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sharknado slashfic posted:I am tumbling down a gnosticism rabbit hole get ridiculously blazed and listen to this guy on headphones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWii0qJpUKY
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Oct 8, 2022 05:33
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thanks to this thread my dog just got her walnut brain expanded with a synesthetic pet-to-music Anyone have animal intelligence anecdotes/anomalous pet stories?
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Oct 8, 2022 05:50
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does your dog ever talk back
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Oct 8, 2022 06:03
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Where would one even get a copy of those old texts? Don't the Vatican keep those under wraps or something?
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Oct 8, 2022 06:11
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platzapS posted:thanks to this thread my dog just got her walnut brain expanded with a synesthetic pet-to-music My cat is somewhat anomalous. This is Nala. As you can see she is a fat gently caress.  Nobody ever believes me, including her vet, but I swear to god she has been on a strict, vet directed diet for most of her life. I think she might take sustenance like an energy vampire. This is an older picture but she is just a few months away from turning 20 years old. With her weight being what it is that is definitely anomalous. Besides some arthritis in her joints she is healthy. She has started to lose weight in the last couple of years but she is still a fat gently caress.
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Oct 8, 2022 06:37
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Rickshaw posted:You know, if Hoffman is right (he is) you would naturally expect nature to diverge from what we consider intuitive or natural or reasonable as you push to length and time scales outside our normal perception, i.e. the very large and the very small 
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Oct 8, 2022 07:51
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D-Pad posted:My cat is somewhat anomalous. Jon, have you ever just made a fresh, delicious lasagna only to turn around and notice it mysteriously missing? Does your cat act particularly distressed or upset on mondays? Do you think that is dog vitamins you are drinking right now?
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Oct 8, 2022 08:19
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i wanna play with the space defying cat some humans will be shocked to discover that cats are common across the universe but other will just go duh. cat
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Oct 8, 2022 08:19
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 the french sent a stray cat into space and back! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9licette
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Oct 8, 2022 08:29
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Armadillo Tank posted:https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228468728_Performance_and_Quality_of_Random_Number_Generators quote:only 61 32-bit deviates per millisecond that sounds like a lot
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Oct 8, 2022 08:57
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chainchompz posted:Where would one even get a copy of those old texts? Don't the Vatican keep those under wraps or something? The Vatican has a huge archive, as do a bunch of universities and museums (the spoils of empire) and they're locked up but not so much under wraps as there's no one who wants to look at them who can do anything useful with them. Pictures generally exist for most of it, even if said pictures are mostly in crusty professional journals and not on the internet, but the real problem is more a lack of qualified translators with the time and desire to dig into them. The gnostic stuff is academically interesting but the fact that there aren't extant gnostic traditions that hold those texts as sacred means that they get a lot less attention except from very specific specialized historians and theologians. Beyond that it's more of a curiosity than anything else so it doesn't get a lot of attention unfortunately.
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Oct 8, 2022 17:37
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chainchompz posted:Where would one even get a copy of those old texts? Don't the Vatican keep those under wraps or something? http://gnosis.org/welcome.html has some Azathoth posted:The Vatican has a huge archive, as do a bunch of universities and museums (the spoils of empire) and they're locked up but not so much under wraps as there's no one who wants to look at them who can do anything useful with them. Pictures generally exist for most of it, even if said pictures are mostly in crusty professional journals and not on the internet, but the real problem is more a lack of qualified translators with the time and desire to dig into them. Yeah it's possible those archives have some stuff, early polemics used a style where they actually tended to quote the text they were criticizing, and for example the gospel of thomas is largely extant in that form but there are basically no scholars really looking through that stuff, like you said. poo poo, I think Dr. Sledge of the youtube channel Esoterica ended up at the unviersity of amsterdam for his doctorate simply because not that many schools even offer degree programs that put you in front of old rear end religious texts what is published is usually in academic publishing houses like Brill, where you're literally gonna pay a high three-low four figure sum for that book if you can't or won't pirate it
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Oct 8, 2022 18:12
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also related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4GHrs5xAIk
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Oct 8, 2022 18:17
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Riot Bimbo posted:http://gnosis.org/welcome.html has some It's amusing how little attention is even given to the ancient texts that do have extant traditions. There's a brewing fight that'll likely come up during future translations of the Gospels regarding the story of Mary and Martha. Seems that there's a recently discovered scribal error regarding one of the two times where they appear where the copyist (or more likely the copyists editor/overseer) changed some references to make an unrelated story of two other women about Mary and Martha. The exact details involve very minor alterations to our earliest copy of said stories to change some names, presumably because they thought they were correcting an error but textual analysis seems to back up that it is the correction that was done in error. This doesn't have theological implications and was done in antiquity, but it illustrates just how malleable the actual text itself is, given that aside from very small fragments, we don't have big chunks until like 100 years after the texts were composed and closer to 200 years for mostly complete copies.
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Oct 8, 2022 18:53
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cigar slowly materializes above little rock, arkansas NUFORC posted:Was practicing running at football field at Henderson Junior High. observed over Rock Creek an object about 1000 feet above ground slowly taking shape. It was not fling into eyesight but like it was materalizing. There was no noise or lights upon this object and it did not reflect sunlight. there as three cyliner tubes about 400 feet each joined by same but smaller in diameter. There were no lights, window type opening or sound from object. I observed for 3 minutes and then ran home to have my daddy bring 8 MM camera to captuer object on film. it was about 10 minutes by the time we both arrived to film. Object was gone. There were no reported sightings around neighborhood as well as Little Rock Airforce base said there were no object seen on radar. transcribed report from a diary NUFORC posted:This is a direct quote from a diary I kept at the time, which I just got back from mom a year ago after dad died. "April 8, 1968, Monday. {....I am skipping the first four paragraphs.....} After dinner I did the dishes and after that I went outside for a cigarette. At about five to seven I looked up at the sky and saw a strange sight. A huge, lighted object, quite noiseless, was hovering and swaying over the city to the SoutEast. I watched it go slowly across the sky, stopping here, going up there, and it moved very slowly. I was intrigued, thinking at first that it was helicopter, but then I became aware that there was no nise. I watched it and I went to the front of the house to have the folks come out. I had that silly egoistical feeling that the thing was there just for me to see and that it was watching me and reacting to me. Anyway, before I got too far, it had one large lighted sphere on the bottom and one small one on the top, aparently connected by some metal structure I could only get glimpses of (here I have an arrow pointing to a drawing I made of the object). It was the shape that intrigued me at first. As soon as the folks came out, it egan to pick up speed and travel up, and then after about five minutes, like a trajectory it went into "orbit" and disappeared. But, mind you, the thing was very close to ttown and earth at first and later went up, up, 'till it vanished. another ufo following man made structures NUFORC posted:I was riding my bicycle across the railroad track, when the ufo came flying straight with the railroad track about 50 feet above the track,. all I could hear was the sound off a swisching sound, not very loud, it followed the track went about 200 feet, stopped and came back and houvered about 5 seconds and went straight up and out of site,. odd report from us base in morocco; captured disk? NUFORC posted:Dear Sirs: While stationed in Sidi Yahia Morocco, my wife and I were asked to go to the Receiver Site to witness a UFO that had partially exploded and then fl flew back up again. We could not get past the Marine Sentries although they verified what had happened. We were originally notified by phone by by a CT from the transmitter site. naval task force witnesses USOs performing synchronized manuevers NUFORC posted:While serving on board the USS Zellars DD777, while on NATO task force operations, a number of lights that looked like flares rose out of the water off of our port beam. These lights appeared comming up from the sea, (distance indeterminate), rising up and disappearing into the sky. There were five of these objects. possibly related USO report; disabled electrical systems NUFORC posted:This it to possibly confirm a report of the UFO/USO sighting of 05/??/68 in the vicinity of the Azores following the reported sinking of the U.S.S. Scorpion and subsequent search operation.
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Oct 8, 2022 19:17
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Azathoth posted:It's amusing how little attention is even given to the ancient texts that do have extant traditions. There's a brewing fight that'll likely come up during future translations of the Gospels regarding the story of Mary and Martha. Seems that there's a recently discovered scribal error regarding one of the two times where they appear where the copyist (or more likely the copyists editor/overseer) changed some references to make an unrelated story of two other women about Mary and Martha. One of the things I like best is there's a female apostle in the canonized texts that everyone pretends doesn't exist. Junia appears in Romans and is most likely Joanna in Luke.
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Oct 8, 2022 19:49
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WEH posted:cigar slowly materializes above little rock, arkansas This is the good stuff as always, WEH! I'm particularly intrigued by the transcribed diary reports - that's very valuable testimony when it's written at the time, rather than recalled decades later
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Oct 8, 2022 22:42
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platzapS posted:thanks to this thread my dog just got her walnut brain expanded with a synesthetic pet-to-music My tiny dachshund tried so hard to learn to talk when she was growing up, i swear she 100% knew that words were supposed to mean something and would try to be like "wo woo wooar wo" inserting herself into conversations if it seemed like you were addressing her, but it never really worked and she quit doing it and became a normal dog. I used to try and mimic what she was "saying" and she'd try to keep going and learn but it just wasn't really there. If she saw the cat play biting she would become absolutely livid & hated it, especially if you were like "ow help he's bitin" she would tear rear end over and try to pull him away. So she learned a ton of commands but never quite made it to the linguistic version of 2+2=4. She knew "ow" meant somebody got hurt, and knew her name and the names of the other pets, but never really was able to generalize that specific words always mean something specific past that point. Now that I think about it that cat used to play fetch too, but eventually seemed to forget how. SniperWoreConverse has issued a correction as of 01:41 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 01:38
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platzapS posted:thanks to this thread my dog just got her walnut brain expanded with a synesthetic pet-to-music I love the field of animal intelligence, and I think it's thoroughly underappreciated by people. As far as stories, my Bichon had puppies, and one of them was scared of going up the steps. We told my dog to teach her puppy (jokingly, and not expecting anything), and the dog went up the steps and back two times to demonstrate I guess, which was pretty incredible. I also accidentally dropped my cat Mikey a few years ago, and he walked away, then when I wasn't looking ran back and attacked me, indicating that he might've been mulling over the indignity of being dropped, then decided to punish me. I know some people will say I'm anthropomorphizing, but I think there's a difference between that and recognizing that animals are generally much more capable of complex thought than we give them credit for. This is especially true with certain classes of animals, like cetaceans and elephants, who clearly show signs of highly advanced intelligence. This is a big reason why I've been a vegetarian for 25 years, and a vegan for like eight or so. Also I just think animals are cute and I don't want to eat them.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:09
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Also, I really don't understand counter arguments on why certain animals, like African Greys, aren't actually using language. It always comes to some weird technicality that seems to put human communication patterns on an intangible pedestal. If an animal is putting together words or phrases to express thoughts, it's language imo, even if it's not necessarily that complex. this is nuts: quote:It has been reported that grey parrots are capable of using existing known English words to create new labels for objects which the bird does not know the name. For example "banerry" ("banana" + "cherry") for "apple", "banana crackers" for "dried banana chips" or "yummy bread" for "cake".[32] Nichael has issued a correction as of 02:26 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 02:13
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My cat does that trilling thing, she talks more than I do some days. She does long strings of musical trills every time she sees me, and when she comes inside, and when she wants food, and basically anything. It speaks of her intelligence especially since she can directly make me do things with the intonation of her voice. The other day she caught a mouse and brought it into my room, and the b*tch didn't kill it of course, only played with it in front of me. She knew I didnt like it but was having too much fun, anyway the mouse got into my brother's room and he was sleeping so I turned the light on, told him, and then turned it off. She gave up on the mouse since I turned the light off. Something like 20 minutes later I go down the hall and she's near the door in the kitchen that leads outside (other side of the house), and I was like "UM HELLO WHAT ABOUT THAT MOUSE YOU BROUGHT INSIDE?" After I did that for a minute, she went down the hall, pushed open the door of my brother's room (I left open so she could go in) and went the the last spot she saw the mouse and then came out and basically said "sowwy but the light is off" and I couldn't even stay mad.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:17
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Nichael posted:Also, I really don't understand counter arguments on why certain animals, like African Greys, aren't actually using language. It always comes to some weird technicality that seems to put human communication patterns on an intangible pedastal. If an animal is putting together words or phrases to express thoughts, it's language imo, even if it's necessarily that complex. Humans don't want to deal with the fact that we may be mistreating intelligent creatures (probably on a huge scale, too). It's hard enough just getting us to admit that even certain groups of humans should be treated with any dignity
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Oct 9, 2022 02:20
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yeah, my cats have distinct vocabularies and "words" that mean specific things. Mikey has the largest vocabulary of any of them.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:21
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:Humans don't want to deal with the fact that we may be mistreating intelligent creatures (probably on a huge scale, too). It's hard enough just getting us to admit that even certain groups of humans should be treated with any dignity I think it does come down to that. The reality is too grim to deal with. And it's absolutely akin to the fact that people in power (or even a modicum of comfortability in life) do not even recognize classes of humans (like racial groups or the homeless) as "people". I'm pretty good at siloing off my emotions about systemic issues, which I think is necessary if you're on the left and cognizant of how hosed everything is. But the one thing I have immense trouble burying is our treatment of animals and the environment, because they seem totally blameless, and yet totally capable of suffering (yes, poor people are blameless too but emotions are irrational).
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Oct 9, 2022 02:24
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Nichael posted:I know some people will say I'm anthropomorphizing *gasp!* the greatest unforgivable sin in science!!! Eventually I decided, gently caress it, I'm going to trust the sense of my eyes and brain on this one. Animals are sentient and a lot smarter than most people appreciate. I also decided that "anthropomorphizing" kind of gets the cause and effect backwards. Our mammalian brains evolved out of the same stew as these dogs and cats and pigs, and though it seems that abstract spoken language came late and might be unique to people, that doesn't mean that animals can't communicate. What do you have besides pure abstract thought? I think we share with animals emotional states, play, sense of humor, social cues, body language, etc. There's a lot more communication that exists besides the strictly verbal. Rickshaw has issued a correction as of 03:04 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 02:52
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It seems it should be obvious that animals are conscious just as us; but either less-conscious, or a smaller amount of consciousness so to speak. If you ascribe to reincarnation, it easily makes sense to think one may take animals lives before a human once, as training wheels as your consciousness grows. Perhaps it would simply be too difficult for one to jump straight to a sentient lifeform. You have to personally evolve to manage the pain of existence, the burden of knowledge, Adam-n-Eve type poo poo. That could be a limiting factor of consciousness insofar as more conscious you are, the more painful things can be, with the knowledge of your insignificance, the complications of living, etc.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:06
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I would say a lot of animals are absolutely as conscious as we are, they just might not have the ability to grasp certain concepts.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:08
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Nichael posted:Also, I really don't understand counter arguments on why certain animals, like African Greys, aren't actually using language. It always comes to some weird technicality that seems to put human communication patterns on an intangible pedestal. If an animal is putting together words or phrases to express thoughts, it's language imo, even if it's not necessarily that complex. Linguistics as a field is kind of hostile to animal language, iirc the overriding theories and definitions of language have been revised to be more specific and abstract in direct response to evidence of animal communication meeting the definition of language. This happens in other areas, for fun look up how the definitions of "tool' and "tool use" have changed over time! Chimpanzees don't just stick sticks in termite holes to catch snacks, the carry a variety of different but consistent size and shapes and materials and use them in precise ways. They modify them into the desired shapes using their hands and teeth. But this doesn't count as tool use for some people because the sticks aren't made using an object that's been modified to make them lol.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:13
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People are just trumped up animals
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Oct 9, 2022 03:21
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Nichael posted:I would say a lot of animals are absolutely as conscious as we are, they just might not have the ability to grasp certain concepts. id say this goes both ways, that animals watching humans wonder how we consistently miss concepts they take full advantage of language is only a part of any communication, obviously having a common language makes the transmission of complex ideas a lot faster but even humans communicate non verbally in lots of little ways. i dont buy into body language experts etc like we saw a lot of during trump times, or polygraphs but i do think all of that has some merit to it anyways
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Oct 9, 2022 03:26
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Nichael posted:I would say a lot of animals are absolutely as conscious as we are, they just might not have the ability to grasp certain concepts. yeah animals are neat 
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Oct 9, 2022 03:29
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Sleekly posted:id say this goes both ways, that animals watching humans wonder how we consistently miss concepts they take full advantage of Right. I don't have the ability to conceptualize how minute sound cues could be indicative of mice or whatever my cats are obsessing over in the moment. I also lack the ability to pick up on the nuances of scents.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:30
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Nichael posted:Right. I don't have the ability to conceptualize how minute sound cues could be indicative of mice or whatever my cats are obsessing over in the moment. I also lack the ability to pick up on the nuances of scents. recently when a family member died roughly there was finger pointing and bad blood between the various parts of the family and it was consistently a dog who would break the ice and cheer people up and reset us to a happier grieving place so we could get through. theres a lot going on when you make eye contact with a dog and if theyre fond of you theyll help you out and it really does feel like spirits have been lifted and what was painful a moment ago is now just incredibly sad and you can deal better thanks to this new perspective from a dog lots of animals and even insects and reptiles can form bonds with us if we put in the time i got beeeees, even they have moods and likes and the sound of the hive can range from lovely relaxing hum all the way to visceral primal horror if they are worked up about something
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Oct 9, 2022 03:41
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I've never seen anything convincing demonstrating any animal grasping/utilizing proper syntax so I'm fine to say they don't have language, at least in terms of what we consider language. I agree that they have more sophisticated communication than most people think. Maybe enough to rise to the special category of language. But it would still not be any sort of language we're familiar with - it may, e.g., lack syntax entirely without engendering any loss of information or nuance.
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Oct 9, 2022 03:42
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SniperWoreConverse posted:People are just trump
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Oct 9, 2022 03:48
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Perry Mason Jar posted:I've never seen anything convincing demonstrating any animal grasping/utilizing proper syntax so I'm fine to say they don't have language, at least in terms of what we consider language. I agree that they have more sophisticated communication than most people think. Maybe enough to rise to the special category of language. But it would still not be any sort of language we're familiar with - it may, e.g., lack syntax entirely without engendering any loss of information or nuance. birds clearly communicate with each other verbally
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Oct 9, 2022 03:51
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SniperWoreConverse posted:My tiny dachshund tried so hard to learn to talk when she was growing up, i swear she 100% knew that words were supposed to mean something and would try to be like "wo woo wooar wo" inserting herself into conversations if it seemed like you were addressing her, but it never really worked and she quit doing it and became a normal dog. I used to try and mimic what she was "saying" and she'd try to keep going and learn but it just wasn't really there. Have you seen those button board things for dogs? It will have like 20-30 buttons that are each for a specific word you lay down on the floor. I've seen some insane videos of dogs that use it to communicate all types of poo poo. Some of it is simple stuff like hitting the button for "food" over and over when they are hungry but I have seen others put almost full sentences together with relatively complex meaning and their behaviors indicate they truly do know what they are saying. Here are some youtube videos that pop up for this search result: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dog+button+board Briefly browsing through the top ones none of them are particularly that impressive, I have seen videos in the past though that floored me with how well the dog was communicating. If your dog was already predisposed to trying to communicate like a human it might be cool to try this out with them. Nichael posted:I know some people will say I'm anthropomorphizing, but I think there's a difference between that and recognizing that animals are generally much more capable of complex thought than we give them credit for. This is especially true with certain classes of animals, like cetaceans and elephants, who clearly show signs of highly advanced intelligence. This is a big reason why I've been a vegetarian for 25 years, and a vegan for like eight or so. Also I just think animals are cute and I don't want to eat them. I think just like with humans intelligence is a spectrum for animals. I have met some dogs that are just unbelievably smart and plenty of others where it is obvious nobody is home and they are just a furry ball of instincts. At the extreme end of the bell curve there are doubtless some dogs that start to approach the lower end of the human bell curve but even then there are just some concepts their brains are not wired to understand no matter how smart they are. I have no doubt that whales/dolphins are intelligent sentient beings that have their own form of language but whether or not we will ever have the ability to actually understand each other in a meaningful way is up in the air.
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Oct 9, 2022 04:01
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find me a bovine or a chicken with anything going on upstairs and i'll stop eating them
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Oct 9, 2022 04:03
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Spergin Morlock posted:birds clearly communicate with each other verbally I mean, you're not contradicting me here. I agree. But are you saying that (verbal) (or any?) communication rises to the level of language or is anything we should reasonably call language? I wouldn't call, say, wolf howls language though they're obviously verbally communicating. For me, language requires syntax. I was able to find one (1) 2016 paper that says that tits are compositional syntax and a 2018 paper that cites it.
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Oct 9, 2022 04:07
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Riot Bimbo posted:find me a bovine... with anything going on upstairs and i'll stop eating them I'm turning in for the night but if you actually want to stop eating them then look into cow intelligence studies. Otherwise, absolutely do not
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Oct 9, 2022 04:08
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