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anakha posted:Yeah, milk that cow dry
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Oct 7, 2022 03:20
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I wonder what the specific challenges of developing a modern Persona game are. It's interesting how 4 came out so soon after 3, but then there was this monumental gap between 4 and 5 (and now 5 and 6). I'm guessing there's some good reason for it. Better graphics always make it at least somewhat harder to develop games, and these games mandate a higher level of polish than most others, but the lengths of time are still pretty nuts. I feel like "anime-style graphics" are already approaching their peak; there are only so many improvements you can make to the general appearance of P5 (only things that come to mind are framerate and environment detail) I imagine any development expense would more than be made up for by game sales, so I'm not sure if it makes sense as a purely financial thing. edit: It seems like it'd be even weirder if you were a kid when these games started coming out. Time passes faster as an adult, but if someone played Persona 5 in 7th grade they'd be in college now. Gaming stuff went so much faster back when I was a kid/teen.
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Oct 7, 2022 03:42
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girl dick energy posted:Persona 6 development not going so hot, eh, Atlus? This makes less than zero sense. They licensed their IP out to a card game maker. It has nothing to do with how anything is going because they're not the ones making it. It's also not uncommon as a development thing. Elden Ring has a board game coming out. Fallout 4 has a board game. Pokemon has a card game, Digimon has a card game, there have even been card games for previous SMT titles. It is in fact extremely common for any remotely popular Japanese thing to get some kind of tie-in CCG. Dragonball has one, One Piece has one, Gundam has one, Monster Hunter has one, Resident Evil has one, Final Fantasy has one, etc, etc.
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Oct 7, 2022 03:51
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Even then, isn't it Sega that ultimately benefits from all that rather than the development teams?
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Oct 7, 2022 03:59
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Ytlaya posted:I wonder what the specific challenges of developing a modern Persona game are. It's interesting how 4 came out so soon after 3, but then there was this monumental gap between 4 and 5 (and now 5 and 6). It really isn't. RPGs on any scope tend to take a lot of development time unless you're pulling a Gust or Pokemon and churning them out as quickly as you possibly can. There's a reason it is rare for any company, W or J, to be pushing them out very quickly. Even indie developers tend to take a very long time on RPGs compared to almost anything else. (And they tend to be on the shorter end.) Soul Hackers 2 was a pretty clear attempt by Atlus to see how a lower-budget/shorter game would be received. I think people underestimate just how expensive even linear RPGs are. They tend to require more text, unique assets, and voice acting than pretty much any other genre on the market. Most of the 'big names' usually have a long time between new releases and fill that time with smaller titles or spinoffs or such, and the smaller companies depend on large numbers of relatively low budget games that recycle a lot of assets. (Atelier or the Trials Of... series for example.) It's also worth noting that this is the reason so many companies 'milk' big RPGs, because a successful RPG's biggest marketing advantage is that players will buy into it and want to see more. There is a reason there are a billion versions of Skyrim or basically every single Tales, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts and SMT game has gotten at least one re-release or cheapo mostly-reused-assets sequel, because once you've invested that much you tend to want to reuse it if you can. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Oct 7, 2022 |
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Oct 7, 2022 04:01
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Thinking about it some more, I realized Atlus might actually be missing out here. They could probably sell the gently caress out of a Mario Party-type game but with the Persona 3/4/5 characters. Fold the Tycoon minigame and this new card game into that, fold in the dancing games, do an Overcooked clone and call it Joker's Kitchen, that sort of thing.
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Oct 7, 2022 04:05
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anakha posted:Thinking about it some more, I realized Atlus might actually be missing out here. The big issue Atlus ran into is that they used to bolster their big tentpole stuff with lower-budget stuff (often recycling from the big stuff) but that has become increasingly nonviable in recent years. During the PS2 era they built a whole fuckload of models for SMTIII and then reused and added onto them over time and in the following eras they were able to put out much lower budget games on the DS/3DS. Nowdays though the 'weakest' system is the Switch and despite being significantly weaker than the PS5/XBX it's still effectively a full console to develop for. S-E has started trying to shotgun out as many mid-budget JRPGs as they can in the hopes of getting a few hits but they also can afford to do that, while most other companies really have to depend on a couple of hits unless they have a dependable secondary income. Same goes for western RPGs too where it takes years to develop them and they have a really bad habit of being released in a variety of rushed or extremely bad shapes. Like the last big WRPG that wasn't released as a huge mess was probably Witcher 3 and they followed that up with the utter fiasco that was Cyberpunk. In terms of development time: Starfield has been in production since AT LEAST 2018, Cyberpunk was announced in 2012, Dragon Age IV has been in development since 2015, Mass Effect IV has been in development since around them, Elder Scrolls 6 is "sometime in the future", Final Fantasy XV was in development forever, Dragon Quest XII has been in production since the mid 2010s, Tales of... went from 2016-2021, etc. poo poo takes a long time to make. Hell FFXIV taking 'only' from 2020 to 2023 is insanely short and that is mostly just because they waited until it was closer to done to be announced. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Oct 7, 2022 |
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Oct 7, 2022 04:15
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I'd also heard that Persona 6 had a new director and was meant to have a general change of staff. I don't have the details on hand these days but the old director for P3-P5 was getting moved to a new project within Atlus that we've heard nothing about. Honestly, moving on from the old director was probably a good idea. Weird guy, that fellow.
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Oct 7, 2022 04:20
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That's been known for a while, he and his staff have been working on this fantasy game that's been announced and in dev (hell) since Persona 5 was released. A lot of the TMS team supposedly is now in charge of carrying on Persona, first debuting with P5Royale.
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Oct 7, 2022 04:29
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I like to think that the extra dev time is because they are finally adding FeMC to P6 
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Oct 7, 2022 20:13
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ImpAtom posted:It really isn't. RPGs on any scope tend to take a lot of development time unless you're pulling a Gust or Pokemon and churning them out as quickly as you possibly can. There's a reason it is rare for any company, W or J, to be pushing them out very quickly. Even indie developers tend to take a very long time on RPGs compared to almost anything else. (And they tend to be on the shorter end.) Soul Hackers 2 was a pretty clear attempt by Atlus to see how a lower-budget/shorter game would be received. It's a bit more than "a lot of development time," though; it's hard to think of many comparable examples in gaming outside of stuff like the FF7 remake. I would expect something more along the lines of 3-4 years. From what I understand, P3 and P4 shared a lot of assets, but it seems like there would have been similar amounts of effort for writing/voice acting. I'm not doubting there's a reason - obviously there is, or else this wouldn't be the case. But it's definitely an outlier when someone could go through all of their middle and high school years without a new game release.
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Oct 7, 2022 21:27
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Ytlaya posted:It's a bit more than "a lot of development time," though; it's hard to think of many comparable examples in gaming outside of stuff like the FF7 remake. I would expect something more along the lines of 3-4 years. From what I understand, P3 and P4 shared a lot of assets, but it seems like there would have been similar amounts of effort for writing/voice acting. The major thing there is P3/4 were PS2 games. PS2 is basically the last gasp before things really started to balloon. It has gotten significantly harder to pump things out as quickly. Games coming out as fast as they do often involved obscene amounts of crunch and concurrent development from multiple studios. In some cases it is also studio mismanagement but games are just more complex and expensive to make too.
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Oct 7, 2022 21:57
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https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1578696035932815360?t=Lc8oZiM4Pi4OvcpImNVszA&s=19 E: 
anakha fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Oct 8, 2022 |
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Oct 8, 2022 12:01
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That’s just a couple weeks after my birthday. There’s something genuinely nice about the idea that I’m going to replay at 32 the game that got me through my post-college-dropout crash and burn at 22.
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Oct 8, 2022 12:28
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Neeksy posted:That's been known for a while, he and his staff have been working on this fantasy game that's been announced and in dev (hell) since Persona 5 was released. A lot of the TMS team supposedly is now in charge of carrying on Persona, first debuting with P5Royale. Yeah. Every now and then they made a statement like Project Re:Fantasy is still in development, but I’ll believe it when I see it. That said, Atlus do have an issue with announcing their games years too early, see SMT5.
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Oct 8, 2022 12:39
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Or Tokyo Mirage Sessions.
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Oct 8, 2022 13:01
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ImpAtom posted:
Wait, are we not counting horizon zero dawn as an rpg now or did i miss something with forbidden west
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Oct 8, 2022 13:07
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anakha posted:https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1578696035932815360?t=Lc8oZiM4Pi4OvcpImNVszA&s=19 
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Oct 9, 2022 00:02
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Hey Atlus, if you're not going to do persona 6 how about Ogre Battle PC/Switch?
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Oct 9, 2022 00:11
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I imagine Square Enix would have issues with Atlus releasing their game.
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Oct 9, 2022 01:56
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anakha posted:https://twitter.com/Atlus_West/status/1578696035932815360?t=Lc8oZiM4Pi4OvcpImNVszA&s=19 orpheus not cool enough for them or what
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Oct 9, 2022 02:24
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Vita is a modern platform
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Oct 9, 2022 02:27
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I thought these were also coming out on Switch and PS4-5.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:32
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They are. Also Thanatos is consistently treated as the "official" Persona from P3.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:33
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Tired Moritz posted:orpheus not cool enough for them or what Fitting both versions of Orpheus would have taken more effort I guess. Item Getter posted:I thought these were also coming out on Switch and PS4-5. Yep, Microsoft just gets the bonus of being marketed first similar to the original announcement of the ports. E: One guy got an early release of P5R on Switch - no loading lags noted during the first 40 minutes or so. anakha fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 02:42
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So looks like we finally have an answer to the question of which version of P3 they will port. And we can al forget The Answer ever happened.
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Oct 9, 2022 13:53
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Was there ever any question? It was announced as P3P and all the upscaled screenshots were from P3P.
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Oct 9, 2022 13:56
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Yeah IIRC there was never any ambiguity, when they announced the ports of the games it was always P3P they were porting. People were speculating they might go for a "definitive edition" before the announcement and there were some folks salty about the decision to port Portable after the fact.
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Oct 9, 2022 14:10
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NikkolasKing posted:And we can al forget The Answer ever happened. The Answer was an interesting concept and had some cool moments (and music as always). But the execution was just a slog of a campaign. Tl;dr - Just watch the cutscenes.
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Oct 9, 2022 14:28
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Whatever your feelings on it, Arena establishes that The Answer happened at least, since Elizabeth and Aigis are already familiar (not to mention Erebus showing up in Elizabeth's story mode)
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Oct 9, 2022 15:31
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P3Ps presentation sucks so much I wish it'd get an actual remake. Hated the VN presentation on PSP and will hate it now in 2022.
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Oct 9, 2022 16:08
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Ibram Gaunt posted:P3Ps presentation sucks so much I wish it'd get an actual remake. Hated the VN presentation on PSP and will hate it now in 2022. This. But at the same time, it’s whatever, because I can still emulate P3 FES at high frames and 4K/Widescreen just fine.
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Oct 9, 2022 16:48
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I will gladly accept the answer for giving us heartful cry and the 2nd best final boss theme of persona history
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Oct 9, 2022 18:22
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DanielCross posted:Whatever your feelings on it, Arena establishes that The Answer happened at least, since Elizabeth and Aigis are already familiar (not to mention Erebus showing up in Elizabeth's story mode) Also Aigis belonging to the Fool arcana.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:36
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NikkolasKing posted:And we can al forget The Answer ever happened. https://www.psu.com/news/persona-3-remake-is-reportedly-in-development/ (Just a rumor but...)
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Oct 9, 2022 18:50
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Tired Moritz posted:I will gladly accept the answer for giving us heartful cry and the 2nd best final boss theme of persona history Those songs (plus Brand New Days) are the only good things about it though
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Oct 9, 2022 19:09
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Flair posted:https://www.psu.com/news/persona-3-remake-is-reportedly-in-development/ (Just a rumor but...) I'm kinda wondering what a P3 remake would imply. Tartarus would need more mechanics since by these days it's be a slog. The pacing would still be a problem if they keep to full moon shadows. Will they even add FeMC or just add friendship routes to the girls + maybe an extra link? Taking out the transphobia/homophobia left would be easy at least.
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Oct 9, 2022 19:43
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The entire reason to remake P3 is to bring the FeMC stuff up to parity with the male route from FES (probably not counting The Answer, which they could probably just leave). There's no reason to remake the game and not include that stuff. But when I think of a P3 remake, I'm not thinking of a lot of major gameplay or story changes (even though I don't like a lot of P3's story). They'd probably just rework the graphics, maybe add some QoL stuff, and animate all the female scenes, including the video ones.
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Oct 9, 2022 19:49
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Flair posted:https://www.psu.com/news/persona-3-remake-is-reportedly-in-development/ (Just a rumor but...) Well th8s is an interesting surprise. Thank you for the link. At the very least they'd have to update Tartarus to be more than the completely bland tower it was. Probably integrate Negotiation, too. Beyond that I'm not sure what substantive changes they'd have. Maybe they could try to do more with...uh...the evil Persona people. I forget their names. Speaking of which, I guess one change they might have to settle on is our characters in their normal vs. their hero lives. You'll remember in Persona 2 (I presume in P1, too) our heroes could use their Personas to do various superhuman feats. By P4 and P5, our heroes are decidedly normal teenagers unless they are in the a "designated magic zone" like eh TV World or a Palace. Any one of us could probably kick Yosuike's rear end sans Persona. But in P3, they're still figuring this out and personas are a thing which can manifest in the perfectly normal world which is why the evil persona people have like drugs and stuff to suppress theirs. That's how I remember their deal being, anyway. Shinji got the drugs off them to try and run away from his persona and stuff, correct? So yeah, maybe they'd do something very different with all of that. Tired Moritz posted:I will gladly accept the answer for giving us heartful cry and the 2nd best final boss theme of persona history What's #1? Battle for Everyone's Souls? I adore P2's final boss theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQVKqFXKa00 The whole EP Nyarly fight is possibly my favorite final boss in the series because we finally got to rub his face in the dirt like he deserved.
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Oct 9, 2022 20:18
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I think as per Arena, a Persona can be summoned just fine in the Real World, but it takes an emotional catalyst like what the Evokers provide (or an unstable emotional state like Strega). In the TV World or Mementos though, it's not only easier, it's stupidly easy. When the P3 cast enter the TV, they essentially summon theirs by accident before they get ahold of the world's mechanics.
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Oct 9, 2022 20:31
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