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itskage posted:Sorry, not trying to offend, just exaggerating because I was annoyed at the blatant misrepresentation of my position. At this point I am probably not alone in having no idea what your position is.
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Oct 8, 2022 18:50
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worm girl posted:At this point I am probably not alone in having no idea what your position is.
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Oct 8, 2022 18:52
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itskage posted:others start to jump in with strawmen or just pick parts of my responses to others out of context. Either maliciously or through ignorance. So like did you just completely skip over these itskage posted:My position is that the perspective shift isn't as dramatic as people make it out to be, and inner monologue in this comic is rare, but Loup is doing it a lot. itskage posted:
or are you doing the thing in the part I highlighted in bold?
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Oct 8, 2022 18:58
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itskage posted:So like did you just completely skip over these you entered the thread with mock posts and sarcasm, it's completely unfair of you to act as though you've been reasonable and candid this entire time. your opinion is that other people are over reacting. okay. understood. great. moving on.
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Oct 8, 2022 19:02
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Personally, my problem is that Annie is both less emotive in her behavior and less complex in her apparent motivations. One of the great strengths of the best chapters of the comic is the combination of apparently unflappable closed-off blankness from Annie and the way she nonetheless expresses a ton of character. She doesn’t react the way you would expect sometimes, but every reaction or lack of reaction feels telling and communicative. This is true for the vast majority of the comic after the first couple chapters of football heads, and it reaches illustrative heights in her relationship with Tony when she’s falling apart, freaking out, etc. Even some of the beats I don’t personally like (Kat deciding she loves Tony offscreen) prompted really well-realized Annie reactions. These reactions were a bit overstated but they center us in Annie’s perspective - her emotions jump off the page for us, we empathize with her. With the two Annies, we got to see both sides of her reactions and perspective at once, and each Annie was a bit simpler than single Annie artistically, but that’s fine; they worked as foils to each other. But when they merged, Annie stayed about as simple as either of them, and has only gotten less complex and reactive since. Her strongest feelings recently have been mildly but straightforwardly huffy about Aata, friendly in a moderate way towards Loup, and so on. Even the discussion with Aata mostly got her responding with broad ideological statements, there was no sense of where Annie fit into it other than listening and conversing. As much as the ‘spews tea’ reaction is a cartoon, it at least tells us ‘Annie had a strong reaction to this and that matters.’ Instead, her reaction matters only inasmuch as she communicates it to Loup. Meanwhile… Loup is a literal cartoon. He’s constantly having wild expressive mutations and body language, we know what he’s thinking and doing, and he’s actually pretty boring. Despite in theory being as much of a divided and complex character as earlier Annie - split between Ysengrin and Coyote - in practice he’s just Coyote II: Teenage Edge, and can’t really carry our investment forward. But we’re being asked to care so much about him that his punching his girlfriend and her declaring she still loves him matters in terms of his emotional reaction, his internal state. He’s taken Annie’s place at the emotional center and he can’t hold it up, plus he’s unpleasant and uninteresting.
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Oct 8, 2022 19:51
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isasphere posted:None of this would be so bad if we at least had like a scene or two to show us what Annie actually thinks of Jerrek. Like, how does she justify the sudden closeness and confiding in him instead of other older friends she has? Does she recognize he has a crush on her? Why did they decide to invite him and Lana to trap Loup? Well said. I have a feeling that all of these plot points will do a repeat of what has happened often lately and remain unanswered to get "resolved" offscreen with a time jump where some characters barely acknowledge it beyond "well of course all that happened, now, moving forward..."
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Oct 9, 2022 02:04
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Twenty Four posted:Well said. I have a feeling that all of these plot points will do a repeat of what has happened often lately and remain unanswered to get "resolved" offscreen with a time jump where some characters barely acknowledge it beyond "well of course all that happened, now, moving forward..." I'm going to laugh if what happens next is that Lana is sworn to secrecy and they both keep Annie believing Jerrek is just Jerrek.
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Oct 9, 2022 05:08
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Joe Slowboat posted:Personally, my problem is that Annie is both less emotive in her behavior and less complex in her apparent motivations. I agree with your post as a whole. I don't think inner monologues were ever central before, but it felt like there was more complexity, both to how information was conveyed and how Annie and Kat reacted to it. Lately, we've had people appear, say or do something to Annie, and she reacts with shock or annoyance. It just kind of feels like her emotional arc has ended and stabilized when the two Annies merged. On its own that could be interesting. Exploring how coming to terms with a lot of emotionally fraught issues would be great! But it feels more like the comic just jumped to a different emotional center instead of extrapolating out from how Annie's grown. I don't really have anything else to say about the past few pages. I just read them and made the Marge Simpson "Mmmmmm..." sound in real life. itskage posted:This is the fun part of pushing back against the negative death cult in a thread where others start to jump in with strawmen or just pick parts of my responses to others out of context. Personally, I wouldn't take Splicer or Potsticker as representative of some wider death cult movement in the thread and I don't agree with a lot of stuff they say. If there's going to be death cults, could we at least have a few different warring cult factions? Maybe with different patron deities who offer different domains and associated bonuses? Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 19:31
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Keep the scene going by saying, "Death, and..."
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Oct 9, 2022 20:37
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Ssssssssssymbolism.
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Oct 10, 2022 08:02
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Love this page. Very pretty.
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Oct 10, 2022 08:47
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Yeah this is a beautiful page. Unless I'm missing him I don't see Loup anywhere. Jerrek, yes, but not Loup. Which is interesting considering Coyote and Ysengrin are both there. I don't know if this means anything for the future but I kinda hope so tbh.
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Oct 10, 2022 08:55
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Interesting Zimmy and Gamma are on the Forest side of the panel, opposite Jeanne(?)
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Oct 10, 2022 10:05
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This page makes me remember why I loved this comic so much, the art is gorgeous and the symbolism/mystery to be interpreted is there.
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Oct 10, 2022 10:09
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Fragrag posted:Interesting Zimmy and Gamma are on the Forest side of the panel, opposite Jeanne(?) I think that might be Tony? (one visible arm, ‘cracked’ face). Commiserations to Idra for not making it to a couple’s panel Blasmeister fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Oct 10, 2022 |
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Oct 10, 2022 10:20
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Smitty's eyebrows made me chuckle. I also notice we don't see Jones on here, alas! Interesting person to leave out - unless the lower right corner angel (?) is meant to be her?
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Oct 10, 2022 12:57
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Podima posted:Smitty's eyebrows made me chuckle. I also notice we don't see Jones on here, alas! Interesting person to leave out - unless the lower right corner angel (?) is meant to be her? Corner
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Oct 10, 2022 13:13
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What an absolutely gorgeous page!
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Oct 10, 2022 13:15
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Really love this page. Hard to pick a favorite part.Fragrag posted:Interesting Zimmy and Gamma are on the Forest side of the panel, opposite Jeanne(?) Yeah, that is interesting. Wonder if they leave to the forest on their own or if they go there to hide (or neither lol).
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Oct 10, 2022 13:18
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Yeah, this is a beautiful page. Lots of tiny little detail for everyone to look over a fifth and sixth time, keeping the sun and moon symbolism going between the fire/natural and biomechanical/man-made, the mirroring of Zeta and Gamma with Jeanne, and so many other things. The Coyote Tooth-Knife that can cut anything matching the Etheric Arrow that bound Jeanne/her lover to the Annan Waters is an interesting one. But I think the bottom five panels are the most important, and it's for a different reason that hasn't been pointed out here, to the best of my knowledge from what i...gained...from the past few pages of arguing. Left side Coyote, mirroring is the AI Angel. Let's just take this as a very (easily seen) view of gods in the Court. Coyote from the forest and the wilds, the Angel from the court and the robots. Left side Ysengrin, mirroring is the Robots. Continuing this flow, these are beings who have received a newfound life because of their god. Ysengrin was a wolf who got that amazing tree bod from a deal with the devil you know, the Robots receiving the gift of "life" from their Angel/Kat over the decade, starting as tiny little chips that end up becoming more and more Human. They meet in the center with something really cool: a super hosed up "find yourself out" moment where Lana saved Loup's life by taking him off the train to the Star Ocean, something he straight up admits is DEATH. His inner monologue straight up says it while he's fighting with himself: he doesn't want to DIE. No matter how goofy looking the previous pages might have looked, there is nothing goofy in that panel there where the two sides meet. Forest and Court, Loup and Lana, in the same lovers robes as every other couple. I'm pretty sure this is the point where we can -actually- consider Loup as a completely different character than either Coyote or Ysengrin (despite having some memories of them), with individual...well, everything. Agency. Tom may have many ways to depict "love" in his art, but it's never really had to happen to a character who has never experienced it before in its collective lifetimes like that. The panel of how Robot understood love is beautiful and has been posted to death (still worth posting again), but that was back when Robot was...well. Early Young Proselytising Robot. Now there are newborn robots so much more complex out of the gate when they're "born" into their body that there is a very real chance Kat outdid herself and made them as close to human as she could. You know, "God building you in their image" sort of thing, except getting it far too right. And Shell tells everyone the Robots, the Non-Humans, the Etheric Users, and the Etheric-Tuned can't join the Court where they're going... And the panel mirroring from Loup and Lana is The Star Ocean. Long Story Short: Everything in the moonlight and the stars is something that can be taken away to the New World. Kat included. (but not Pas. I wonder why...). Everything on earth, making up almost all of the rest of that page, is excluded from the actual over-arching plot from...years ago, when Coyote told young young Annie that the Court was "Man's way of reaching the stars" or something along those lines (with the fingerprint on the moon incident if you want to look back that far). The Shadow Men have been trying to sap power directly from Coyote over years (see Shell explaining just how far they were willing to go in that endeavor sprinkled all throughout bits and pieces here) to power that Rift to through the Star Ocean, needing the power of a god to finish it on this side. They won't have any more ether on the other end with their new hosts. Faust IX fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Oct 10, 2022 |
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Oct 10, 2022 15:17
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Symbolism pages look pretty and mean nothing. The writing can't cash this check.
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Oct 10, 2022 15:42
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Faust IX posted:
Nice post! The Court was described differently, though: "Why... It is man's endeavor to become god!" (unsure on the capitalization) Which is a bit more yikes on the hubris scale. Strep Vote posted:Symbolism pages look pretty and mean nothing. The writing can't cash this check. I'm reminded uncomfortably of HBomberguy's video on BBC's Sherlock, about how the story lived on continuous promises and hints of a great plot that was just around the corner. isasphere fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Oct 10, 2022 |
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Oct 10, 2022 18:31
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traditionally these splash pages haven't been about events to come so much as stylishly recapping the story so far
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Oct 10, 2022 19:23
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Oxxidation posted:traditionally these splash pages haven't been about events to come so much as stylishly recapping the story so far no, absolutely not. every one of these has had quite a bit of foreshadowing. Strep Vote posted:Symbolism pages look pretty and mean nothing. The writing can't cash this check. 
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Oct 10, 2022 20:03
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Oxxidation posted:traditionally these splash pages haven't been about events to come so much as stylishly recapping the story so far Yeah, the treatises pages use a lot of symbols to allude to characters and events that happened in the preceding chapters. And there's usually some overarching symbolism borrowed from Alchemy, the Kabbalah, or some other mysticism thing that might allude to something in the future or convey some thing about the nature of the characters. I'm not sure I like this one as much as a few of the prior treatises: https://gunnerkrigg.fandom.com/wiki/Bonus_Pages#Treatises It's a nice picture, very stylish and detailed. Though I do think it being made of little stained glass windows is a bit cramped. It doesn't feel like there's much room for new imagery and what we have is similar to what's already been on a lot of the prior treatises.
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Oct 10, 2022 20:03
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It's a really pretty page, I like it very much. There's a good amount to take in here. I'm not the best at interpreting visuals though, so I'm interested to hear other's views on it. Unfortunately, it also likely means "story finally comes to a resolvable plot point, end scene, things happen offscreen, time jump" as I guessed earlier. Really though, I always enjoy these types of pages.
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Oct 10, 2022 20:18
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It's a very pretty page and I like it a lot butStrep Vote posted:Symbolism pages look pretty and mean nothing. The writing can't cash this check. Yeah.
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Oct 10, 2022 22:22
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if there's actual for-real symbolism here aside from just 'forest stuff is over here and court stuff is over here,' which doesn't even seem completely consistent, i'm not seeing it. it's good art aside from a goof with annie's eyes but it doesn't really mean anything
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Oct 11, 2022 00:37
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This is pretty but the frames being mostly dead space and having this many characters and depictions means that it just feels like “here’s everything that’s in motion right now” rather than “here are involved symbolic relationships.” Also I don’t like that this makes Loup having a lovesplosion the literal final page of the volume. It means Loup really was the main character for volume 9.
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Oct 11, 2022 01:23
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It amuses me that all of the characters in the outer panels are wearing robes except for Zimmy and Gamma who are just dressed normally.
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Oct 11, 2022 02:30
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Joe Slowboat posted:This is pretty but the frames being mostly dead space and having this many characters and depictions means that it just feels like “here’s everything that’s in motion right now” rather than “here are involved symbolic relationships.” also he's holding Lana on this page, great stuff
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Oct 11, 2022 06:57
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It's absolutely meant to be the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Looking forward to post-apocalyptic Tea tomorrow.
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Oct 11, 2022 13:53
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Worthleast posted:Looking forward to post-apocalyptic Tea tomorrow.
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Oct 11, 2022 13:56
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Where is City Face
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Oct 11, 2022 16:50
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City Face transcends the Court and Forest. City Face was, is and always will be City Face.
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Oct 11, 2022 17:34
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Coxswain Balls posted:Where is City Face
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Oct 11, 2022 18:06
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Coxswain Balls posted:Where is City Face He lives on in my avatar
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Oct 11, 2022 19:22
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Worthleast posted:It's absolutely meant to be the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. Maybe it's not post-apocalyptic. Maybe it's the world after humanity leaves via the Star Ocean
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Oct 12, 2022 03:53
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Coxswain Balls posted:Where is City Face the Court needed a source of power for the Star Ocean... 
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Oct 12, 2022 04:38
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Coxswain Balls posted:Where is City Face Kat turned him into a Tic-Toc.
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Oct 12, 2022 08:47
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