|
TheCardhouse posted:This post gets it. It was her daughter Helaena she hugged not a serving woman but it's still right. It's Chekhov's gun: they wouldn't have told us Dyana was missing for no reason. They had a reason and that reason was to let us know it wasn't just Plan B Tea. The ominous double speak during the conversation ("I know you won't tell anyone", "it's best to be certain") is just icing on the cake. I'm out of the loop on the value of money in Westeros, but if you give a commoner a heavy bag of
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:12 |
|
|
Killed that poor maid while a monster like Tony Soprano still walks the streets.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:27
|
|
|
Alicent actually said “I acquit… you of your life!” And then stabbed Dyana with a gun.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:29
|
|
|
I really enjoyed this episode. I am a caregiver to an older relative who is falling apart (slightly less dramatically than King Viserys) and it was very easy to see myself in Allicent's shoes here and it super re-sympathized her in my eyes. Silently wept at the dinner and how happy/pleasant it and the apologies were, until ... you know, it wasn't anymore. Also enjoyed the glimpses of the princes all grown up. Aemond is eerie as hell and like others have mentioned, the spitting image of Matt Smith. THAT seed is strong. Anyway, very good episode of TV! End scene was a turd, but what you gonna do. also I'm pretty sure Allicent snapped that maid's neck like a pigeon's and dropped her out a castle window.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:43
|
|
|
What are the odds Rhaenyra's eldest (Jace?) is Criston Cole's son? We never did see her drink that tea.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:44
|
|
|
Rappaport posted:I'm out of the loop on the value of money in Westeros, but if you give a commoner a heavy bag of Yeah she could just disappear and live in comfort far away if she acts perfectly rational. She probably would have done that if Alicent had given her the chance, it's not the most difficult assignment. But she was also understandably traumatized and not presenting herself as a textbook absolutely rational actor to Alicent. Alicent doesn't even know her, she asks what her name is when she walks in. Alicent has no real reason to trust her, she might break down and tell someone without even really meaning to. The right thing to do is to trust her because she's completely innocent and has absolutely no reason to break her word and every reason not to. But was Alicent going to choose the right thing or the certain thing? They implied the certain thing. She wouldn't delegate it to the dude who killed the Strongs because that guy is sadistic. He had his own father and brother burn to death and Alicent was horrified (but not so horrified or righteous to turn him in or anything). God knows what he'd do to some random servant. Out of sight doesn't mean out of mind.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:52
|
|
|
Roman Reigns posted:What are the odds Rhaenyra's eldest (Jace?) is Criston Cole's son? We never did see her drink that tea. thats a fun thought but i dont think the timelines jive, on top of everything else she had to sail out to driftmark, propose, sail back, then back to driftmark for the wedding proper
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:53
|
|
|
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/10/arts/television/house-of-the-dragon-paddy-considine.html interesting interview with Paddy Considine, apparently he had some input on how Viserys's illness would end up quote:I happened to be watching a documentary about one of my favorite artists, Richard Hambleton [a Canadian conceptual artist who died in 2017], and watching his physical decline through cancer, addiction and scoliosis. I said to Miguel Sapochnik [an executive producer, and a showrunner for the first season], “This would be a good idea for where Viserys ends up.” So I had somewhere in my head that I could map where I was going to get to. e: Also on Daemon as Hand: quote:After this last moment in the throne room, do you wonder if Viserys made a mistake not giving the position of hand of the king to his brother Daemon instead? Zohar fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Oct 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 13:54
|
|
|
There are some great posts from both viewpoints on the question of the tea. I was pretty convinced it was poison in my watch, mainly just because Cooke was so icy when delivering her lines "I know you won't tell anyone / best to be certain". But there are definitely great points in it being Tea B. Why can't people just let others have a discussion on it without being dicks. "Lol people are so dumb" posts are not interesting or funny. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Oct 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:02
|
|
|
I'm surprised the nature of the tea has gotten so much back and forth -- I saw it as either way and enjoyed the ambiguity tbh! The nature of the king's illness is, for me, less fun to speculate on. It just is, dawg. Like, how hard is it to believe in this land of literal dragon magic, that some conquered foe put some nasty heat-resistant magic kill-u-nasty poison on a sward that's in the throne? That's def the vector, we are unfortunately not magic doctors so we needn't understand the nature of it beyond that. It's cool.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:06
|
|
|
TheCardhouse posted:Yeah she could just disappear and live in comfort far away if she acts perfectly rational. She probably would have done that if Alicent had given her the chance, it's not the most difficult assignment. I meant Criston, not Cripplefinger, as the volcel. And the show hints that Alicent does understand some of that shock and trauma, given her line to her sex pest son afterwards. I guess she'd have to have a, erm, plan B in case the girl decides to talk, but if she does it far away would anyone even believe her? Or more importantly, would it matter? In the episode where Matt Daemon wanted to rape the princess but decided she was way too into it they saw a play pretty close to the palace grounds where they made open fun of the weird lives of the nobility. Alicent doesn't want any more kids a) trapped in this nonsense b) further conflicting the succession conflict.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:29
|
|
|
Zohar posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/10/arts/television/house-of-the-dragon-paddy-considine.html This is exactly why Daemon should be Hand. He’d be the type of boss that doesn’t waste your time with endless meetings. He’d be out there asking you to Get. poo poo. Done.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
FLIPADELPHIA posted:There are some great posts from both viewpoints on the question of the tea. I was pretty convinced it was poison in my watch, mainly just because Cooke was so icy when delivering her lines "I know you won't tell anyone / best to be certain". But there are definitely great points in it being Tea B. Just because you're called Flipadelphia you don't have to assume every drink is secretly poisoned!
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
It was also sweet when Viserys met baby Viserys before he got sick.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:48
|
|
|
TheCardhouse posted:This post gets it. It was her daughter Helaena she hugged not a serving woman but it's still right. It's Chekhov's gun: they wouldn't have told us Dyana was missing for no reason. They had a reason and that reason was to let us know it wasn't just Plan B Tea. The ominous double speak during the conversation ("I know you won't tell anyone", "it's best to be certain") is just icing on the cake. There's no Chekhov's Gun, the girl was "missing" because Alicent didn't tell Helaena that her husband raped the nanny, Alicent just gave Dyana the money and sent her away immediately. Sure, you might wonder if the girl was actually dead after that scene because it wasn't explicitly shown, but it's not weird that Dyana didn't show up to work the next day - it would be weird if she did show up to work the next day.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:50
|
|
|
Daemon would have been a terrible hand in every aspect other than not trying to actively gently caress his brother's wishes for the line of succession, and even then he'd only have been good at that once the sting of being removed as heir had subsided. Day to day poo poo as hand he would have been terrible. It's easy to think he would have been a better choice though since the only part he would have been good at is the main focus of the show.bobjr posted:It was also sweet when Viserys met baby Viserys before he got sick. That made me so happy and then so sad. He was clearly happy to meet his grandson but upset that his sickly visage scared the children 
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:54
|
|
|
It’s ok to admit you misread a scene you don’t have to accuse a Hollywood reporter of pressuring (?!?) an actress into a false confession like it’s a police interrogation.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 14:57
|
|
|
No chance Alicent killed the maid. She of all people knows the constraints society places on women and part of the reason she is mad at Rhaenyra is that Rhaenyra gets to flaunt that and do what she wants while Alicent got prostituted off to a man decades her senior by her father. Her emphasis on how nobody will believe Dyana if she does tell is just emphasizing her bitterness at the misogynist state of the world, echoed by her later conversation with Aegon. She isn't ranting about having to clean up his messes, she is mad about him being a poo poo. I think the ominous double tones in the scene are to make you think Dyana is going to end up dead and then when Alicent isn't quite willing to take that step, show that she has some humanity left. Alicent hasn't yet been willing to take those steps. She wavers at killing Rhaenyra, she expresses remorse and shame to Otto for even starting it, she is horrified at Larys, she is hesitant to back Vaemond even when she believes his claim is more reasonable and when she is given a seemingly honest apology by Rhaenyra she takes it and works toward a rapprochement herself. She isn't having a random maid murked because she might spread rumors of Aegon raping her; like she says nobody would give a poo poo even if they believed her at all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:03
|
|
|
they could very easily have that lady turn up dead next ep, to show how the queen was waffling away from being ruthless before viserys died but has now committed to doing whatever it takes. and in that case, i want to make clear, that none of you poison peddling knuckleheads better walk in here and pretend it validates your vile accusations against the prestigious entertainment trade publication The Hollywood Reporter and its all-star Editor at Large James Hibberd
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:13
|
|
|
Infinite Karma posted:There's no Chekhov's Gun, the girl was "missing" because Alicent didn't tell Helaena that her husband raped the nanny, Alicent just gave Dyana the money and sent her away immediately. Sure, you might wonder if the girl was actually dead after that scene because it wasn't explicitly shown, but it's not weird that Dyana didn't show up to work the next day - it would be weird if she did show up to work the next day. No but if it was supposed to be clear that it was Plan B Tea, it'd be weird that they'd draw our attention to Dyana being missing but have Alicent conspicuously not tell us where she is. They didn't have to say anything so they at least want us to wonder. That's why I don't think the interview answer was totally straight. It doesn't fit with how she directed the episode and I think the best explanation for that is that her expertise is in directing, not in keeping a perfect poker face when pressed in interviews. I'm exaggerating by implying that it's obvious Alicent killed Dyana. It's not, they would have just shown us if they wanted it to be unambiguous. But that is still my interpretation based on what they showed us.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:13
|
|
|
TheCardhouse posted:No but if it was supposed to be clear that it was Plan B Tea, it'd be weird that they'd draw our attention to Dyana being missing but have Alicent conspicuously not tell us where she is. They didn't have to say anything so they at least want us to wonder. Maybe Alicent became real and passed the director a bag of gold to keep her quiet
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:14
|
|
|
Typo posted:Maybe Alicent became real and passed the director a bag of gold to keep her quiet open to interpretation but I don't think she'd have risked it
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:26
|
|
|
Cole is Q.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:36
|
|
|
Ser Qriston Qole
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
Alicent didn’t say what happened to the girl because she didn’t want to tell her daughter “Well, your awful brother-husband that I forced you to marry just raped the nanny so we had to send her away.” It’s entirely reasonable Alicent reacted to her in the way she did. I guess if you thought it was a random servant and not her own daughter it might be kind of confusing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:52
|
|
|
Dalmuti posted:Ser Qriston Qole Baelon is alive and will take the Crown next week!
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:52
|
|
|
Some people seem to think that watching TV is a gameshow and the job of the watcher is to suss out all the secret things so when they happen they can go AHA and do the Leo point. Alicent did not poison the girl, the tea thing was intentionally established earlier, and it would be insane to kill that girl offscreen and never show it or even mention it. Also gently caress the person quoting this next week if it turns out I was wrong.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:55
|
|
|
Toplowtech posted:Nah it's 100% true it can gently caress you up and you could end up Lysa Tully level of crazy. In Lysa's case she was, and continued to be, head over heels for littlefinger, and she was forced to abort his child, and then got married off to Jon Arryn to be his brood mare. I don't think the moon tea made her the way she was.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:58
|
|
|
Alicents only daughter seems relatively happy and nice despite being married to a real piece of poo poo, Otto being like "good job, well done" to her toast at the dinner in his patronising way was still the most human he's seemed in the entire show. Wonder if he'd genuinely have been happy with Vicerys marrying Rhaenyra to tiny Aegon like he suggested back in Episode 3 or whether he knew Vicerys would turn it down so it was a safe suggestion. Or if it had happened, would he have been trying to engineer some poo poo in that situation just the same. I like little what if's like that and I think of shows that make me think of them more highly than ones where I don't care to. Obviously Rhaenyra the character we know wouldn't have been down for that regardless so it'd have derailed as soon as they brought the idea to her probably.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 15:58
|
|
|
thebardyspoon posted:Alicents only daughter seems relatively happy and nice despite being married to a real piece of poo poo, Otto being like "good job, well done" to her toast at the dinner in his patronising way was still the most human he's seemed in the entire show. Rhaenyra marrying Aegon was best case scenario for the Hightowers As a man in medieval society Otto's grandson Aegon would be the one to give final ruling on every policy decision regardless if the marriage is supposed to be a system of co-rule between king and queen. The marriage pre-empts a challenge from Rhaenyra for the throne and removes further ambiguities on succession for a generation at least. Plus now -all- the potential heirs to the throne (Rhaenyra+Aegon's children/Alicent+Visery's kids) will have Hightower blood in them, which is kinda the point of the whole exercise. Typo fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Oct 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:09
|
|
|
Who were the two ladys near the end of the episode - walking in a cloak into some mansion outside the castle?
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:12
|
|
|
Ornery and Hornery posted:Who were the two ladys near the end of the episode - walking in a cloak into some mansion outside the castle? Daemon's concubine from the beginning of the series plus one of her spies in the red keep
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:13
|
|
|
Dyana’s outcome is ambiguous just like Alicents motivation. Will she betray and murder Rhaenyra and her kids? Nobody knows until the camera pans to Dyanas dead body as the season finale and the audience learns that she will do anything to protect her sons/retain the throne, things like murder a rape victim. shes dead
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
they’re never going to address it again and team dead is gonna go all Pine Barrens huh?
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
Typo posted:Daemon's concubine from the beginning of the series plus one of her spies in the red keep Was the concubine always a spymaster or is that a recent development?
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:37
|
|
|
Ornery and Hornery posted:Was the concubine always a spymaster or is that a recent development? more recent unless it turns out that it was one of -her- agents in the brothel who leaked the Rhaenyra/Daemon incident to Otto, but that's never stated or even implied
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:39
|
|
|
TheBizzness posted:they’re never going to address it again and team dead is gonna go all Pine Barrens huh? I think someone like Larys is going to find out about it and make sure an unhappy accident befalls poor Dyana and they're going to bring it to the Queen for brownie points but she's gonna get all mad and yell at them and throw them out of the room and then she'll turn and in a loose close up of her face we can see that she is conflicted but relieved but also conflicted about that relief. Or we're never going to see Dyana again because she's not the point, the point is Alicent's reaction and how the scene defines the character for us, the audience. Also watching this episode reminded me of a TROPE that is always funny to me, the "we need the room" thing. It's about setting and staging, you're not going to stage a whole room just for the two principle characters to leave the room to go somewhere more private but it's always funny when like 25 people have to clear a room so two main characters can go at it. It happened a few times Sunday. zoux fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Oct 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:41
|
|
|
one of the things that kind takes me out of the show is how old Aemond looks relative to Aegon lol Aegon is supposed to be older and he looks 17, Aemond look like he's 30 something Typo fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Oct 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:43
|
|
|
zoux posted:Or we're never going to see Dyana again because she's not the point, the point is Alicent's reaction and how the scene defines the character for us, the audience. I think this is it, and people are overthinking things. Dyana isn't a character, she's an event for Alicent to react to and further characterize herself. For better or worse, at this point the show isn't super concerned with non-nobles.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 15:12 |
|
|
Rappaport posted:Okay, but the theorycrafting earlier in the thread suggests that GoT takes place on Earth millions of years in the future, potentially after a nuclear war or some other bad event, where would they get a bag of uranium, smartypants? That city that's full of shoggoths and other Lovecraftian monsters? Please GRRM came to the bookstore I worked at to do a signing and someone asked him a very detailed question about Long Winters and an inner asteroid belt and orbital mechanics and had worked out all of the math to say how all of this was physically possible and George's answer was "I made it all up and never thought about it."
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2022 16:47
|
|
