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so I said two hall of fame centers are of a similar caliber of player with one being a bit better and this is some kind of crazy statement by a lunatic a 12 year old etc
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Oct 12, 2022 20:44
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is there any moderate mulquetoast statement I can say that will not elicit hyenic cackles of derision from the chorus ?
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Oct 12, 2022 20:46
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it’s like when I said a touchdown was worth 6 points and people flipped the gently caress out
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Oct 12, 2022 20:47
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euphronius posted:same number of games Jesus Christ Horford to his credit has aged like wine, but even at his peak he's only ever been a solid roleplayer. He can effectively guard at the 2, 3, 4, or smallish 5 if they aren't super athletic, and he can hit open threes at roughly the league-average rate or a bit better (he shot the lights out in the finals to his credit; still lost). He's smart. He boxes out and gets boards. Lots to like in terms of having a veteran 4th or 5th man on the floor. He's not the kind of person who can create his own shot lock down an opposing star. He gets torched by guards pretty regularly. For KG I will assume, generously IMO, that if you only ever saw the 35 year-old version of him play then maybe you'd wrongly get the impression that he wasn't a totally dominant player in his prime. The kind of guy who would effortlessly swat your star team's star on one end and then immediately dunk on your center on the other end. Maybe not a shooter but he'd still make the and-1 free throw.
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Oct 12, 2022 20:51
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what rebounding stat factors in overall team shooting percentage? surely nobody would be stupid enough to pump pure rebounds into an advanced stat formula since it punishes rebounders who play on better shooting teams.
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Oct 12, 2022 20:51
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or better team shooting percentage but only when the rebounder is on the floor himself.
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Oct 12, 2022 20:52
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I’m in my 40s man lol
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Oct 12, 2022 20:53
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Vox Nihili posted:not the kind of person who can create his own shot lock down an opposing star. the first part isn’t a factor is being a valube two way center and the second part is false . the rest of your scouting report was pretty good I think 👍 also horford was awesome out of the box. in his mid 20s for sure
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Oct 12, 2022 20:54
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or even better a rebound stat that factors team shooting percentage when the player is on the floor but also distinguishes between 2 point and 3 point attempts and whether those shots were converted into second chance points.
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Oct 12, 2022 20:55
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euphronius posted:the first part isn’t a factor is being a valube two way center and the second part is false . the rest of your scouting report was pretty good I think 👍 I know he was great vs Embiid but has he done it to any other legit stars
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Oct 12, 2022 20:55
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a new study bible! posted:or even better a rebound stat that factors team shooting percentage when the player is on the floor but also distinguishes between 2 point and 3 point attempts and whether those shots were converted into second chance points. rebounds are not a good stat to judge anything but recording the number of times the scorer credited that person with a rebound I’d say ignore them entirely. they are not useful. (getting rebounds is important obviously but it is not related to the separate rebound stat )
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Oct 12, 2022 20:57
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Horford owned Embiid historically, but I don’t remember that being particularly true last season
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Oct 12, 2022 20:58
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euphronius posted:it’s like when I said a touchdown was worth 6 points and people flipped the gently caress out I'm not really surprised that this is how you remember that conversation
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Oct 12, 2022 21:01
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a new study bible! posted:Horford owned Embiid historically, but I don’t remember that being particularly true last season he beat Uber prime Gianni’s come on . hall of fame level accomplishment
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Oct 12, 2022 21:02
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euphronius posted:the first part isn’t a factor is being a valube two way center and the second part is false . the rest of your scouting report was pretty good I think 👍 Being able to create scoring opportunities is absolutely valuable, for some reason your brain just ignores that entire part of basketball. It's the kind of thing that separates your Al Horfords from your Bam Adebayos. RWIII was the actual keystone defensive stopper on the Celtics, which was why his limited availability was so impactful. He can defend 1-5 and swat anyone, and was in my view the best Celtics player in the finals. Horford was out there getting torched by guards five times a game. Which is fine, he's still a very good player, he just has limitationls. If you watched the finals you'd know this
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Oct 12, 2022 21:09
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it is valuable it’s not as valuable as a two way center . it’s way more common for example.
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Oct 12, 2022 21:10
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euphronius posted:it is valuable it’s not as valuable as a two way center . it’s way more common for example. I thought we agreed not to get wrapped up in positional expectations. Anything that contributes to winning is a valuable asset.
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Oct 12, 2022 21:11
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I mean I’ll take it that you recognize horford as a good player and leave it at that Everyone values players differently it’s what makes sports fun
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Oct 12, 2022 21:11
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Vox Nihili posted:I thought we agreed not to get wrapped up in positional expectations. Anything that contributes to winning is a valuable asset. horford would be better if he could create a suit like kyrie Irving . but he is still a hall of fame center without it . he goes from a 99 with it to like a 97 without it . it is not a core skill needed by centers now like a shooting guard that can’t create a shot on his own is a different thing but there have been some of those who have succeeded for sure o guess it’s just that it’s east to find 6 3 guys and it’s hard to find 6 10 athletic guys so yeah centers are inherently more valuable anyway
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Oct 12, 2022 21:14
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oh no there is another one of my crazy lunatic ideas : height* is important in the nba crazy !! * with altheticism
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Oct 12, 2022 21:16
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euphronius posted:oh no there is another one of my crazy lunatic ideas : height* is important in the nba im muggsy bogues and i dont like this post! 
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Oct 12, 2022 21:19
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euphronius posted:he beat Uber prime Gianni’s he only outplayed giannis in one game. the celtics as a collective team beat giannis
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Oct 12, 2022 21:20
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so for you it’s Denver : one man team, jokic gets no help, should get the mvp despite his teamates Boston: total team effort, horford is only one part of the collective, not fair to single him out do you see your ideology here ???
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Oct 12, 2022 21:22
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euphronius posted:same number of games my god it's the loving win share stats again mitchell robinson was 8th in ws/48 last year. maybe the nets should trade durant for him https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinmi01.html in 2015-2016 hassan whiteside and enes freedom were 7th and 8th in the nba in win shares per 48 minutes https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_top_10.html
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Oct 12, 2022 21:23
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lmao even when in use espn stats it’s wrong you can’t win !
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Oct 12, 2022 21:24
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in 2003-2004, brian cardinal had the third highest win shares per 48 minutes in the nba. higher than kobe bryant https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cardibr01.html there is literally nobody but you who takes this stat seriously. not stat nerds, not casual fans, not analytics types. nobody
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Oct 12, 2022 21:26
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the writers do !!
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Oct 12, 2022 21:27
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euphronius posted:lmao even when in use espn stats it’s wrong win shares was literally created by the owner of basketball reference, justin kubatko. it's worthless. it's his own pet project and it has never been used by espn or anyone else
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Oct 12, 2022 21:27
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ok forget them i only used them for you . I don’t look at them
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Oct 12, 2022 21:29
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euphronius posted:the writers do !! if you read a rag like sports illustrated or bleacher report yeah you might see win shares from time to time, but everybody who cites advanced stats goes with VORP and RPM
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Oct 12, 2022 21:29
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But you are dunking on jokic because he lacked the core skills, but has the extras in spades. So your baseline is just core skills. Hortford isn't a number 1 scorer, and that is ok because it is not a core skill for center, but an elite center must have the extra, or they are just a center. Elite are suppose to stand out. Jokic is a faker since he only stands out, no core. Kg is obviously better than Hortford offensively due to being the freak of his era, he should be a tier higher then. Dude is responsible for the contract cap, it's pretty disrespectful.
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Oct 12, 2022 21:30
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euphronius posted:oh no there is another one of my crazy lunatic ideas : height* is important in the nba Horford is undersized for center, yeah Thankfully he has RWIII there to guard the rim for him
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Oct 12, 2022 21:30
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what i don't understand is why some writers still cite PER. i think it's because john hollinger went from analytics to columnist to grizzlies vp so it's out of respect for him, but drummond has been like top 10 in PER multiple times and other scrubs like michael beasley were pretty up there too edit: wrong about drummond, but hassan whiteside was top 10
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Oct 12, 2022 21:33
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euphronius posted:ok forget them i only used them for you . I don’t look at them Advanced stats like Al Horford. You should lean into them. Eye test says he's slow, fat, and boring. Stats say he's great, maybe even the 3rd best player on the Celtics.
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Oct 12, 2022 21:33
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win shares say nikola jokic was the best player in the league for the last two years in a row
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Oct 12, 2022 21:36
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looking at garnett's stats and i kind of forgot how much him, webber, and vlade divac were the models of pf/centers who get assists before giannis/jokic/draymond took up that mantle. garnett peaked at 6 assists per game one year
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Oct 12, 2022 21:43
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Yossarian-22 posted:looking at garnett's stats and i kind of forgot how much him, webber, and vlade divac were the models of pf/centers who get assists before giannis/jokic/draymond took up that mantle. garnett peaked at 6 assists per game one year kg's whole thing was 20/10/5
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Oct 12, 2022 21:46
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indigi posted:Duncan? I don't watch enough of Mobley (nor did I watch enough of Duncan for that matter), does his ceiling really project to being a(n arguably) top 5 all time player? skipped the rest of the posts just to say that yes, mobley has the DNA to become that caliber of player he’s that loving insane and euph would bust loads if he watched cavs games
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Oct 12, 2022 21:54
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mastershakeman posted:kg's whole thing was 20/10/5 While being one of the best defensive players to ever play. He's got accolades on that side as well, but it's still understated just how good he was as a defender.
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Oct 12, 2022 22:10
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vyelkin posted:win shares say nikola jokic was the best player in the league for the last two years in a row I know that’s what I don’t use them . they are bunk
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Oct 12, 2022 22:14
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