(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
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You can look at zombie games like back for blood for good monsters etc, because each monster has a type that does a thing. And if you see the monster you know what it's going to do. Versus the current setup where you have no idea because the mods are random relative to the type of the monster.
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Oct 12, 2022 21:38
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| # ? May 24, 2024 13:22 |
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The mob type does matter though. A generic skeleton with a deadly mod isn't even remotely as threatening as a Kitava Herald with the same mod, and it's absurd to claim otherwise.
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Oct 12, 2022 22:01
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I still maintain that the goal of Archnem mods is good but it's done terribly. I find the vast majority of Archnem mods inexcusable as they are right now. Like look at this:quote:Flameweaver Why does it need to convert phys to fire and add phys as fire? Usually converting to fire actually lowers the overall damage the monster would be doing, just raise the number of phys added if needed, it doesn't need 2 lines. And what the hell is the scorch mod even there for? It's an alternate ailment that players shouldn't be expected to think about except for very specific cases anyways, why is it in this extremely common mod that you find throughout the entire game? Not to mention these mods shouldn't be loving with elemental ailment effect in particular, because ailments are ALREADY based on damage dealt of that element. In any reasonable case, the difficulty to inflict ailments on enemies should already be covered by making them more resistant to the elements, and if players do something that gets around that, just let them. Exposure is also such a stupid thing to put on there. Monsters dealing more fire damage should be handled by... them doing more fire damage. Again, if it's something like endgame mods in Simulacrum or deep Delve I get having poo poo bypass standard expectations but this is not the place to introduce this sort of mechanic. Just looking at that list of archnem mods for a single monster I don't think it's remotely okay that they haven't been drastically culled down in scope, and then the numbers adjusted to reach the balance they are looking for. Here's what I'd do: quote:Gargantuan Also, there's just too many mods. Many of them overlap and could just be made 1 mod. Many of them just shouldn't exist period. There's like 60 or 70 mods, I'd argue that list should really be like 25-30 before the god touched mods and all the god touched mods are reasonable now because they all give the same defensive bonuses and spawn the god.
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Oct 12, 2022 22:49
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Phys converted to fire helps achieve the design goal of physical mitigation being less relevant for elemental themed monsters. But also, fundamentally, it's not adding any real complexity for the reader - you can read that mod as "deals more and takes less fire damage" and get what is basically enough info.
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Oct 12, 2022 23:18
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QuantaStarFire posted:The mob type does matter though. A generic skeleton with a deadly mod isn't even remotely as threatening as a Kitava Herald with the same mod, and it's absurd to claim otherwise. like for example when you get magma barrier on an enemy that can quickly run you down, or if you get the especially bad combination of assassin + magma barrier. with how much power is concentrated in archnemesis mods it creates a sort of boss goblin. sometimes the game rolls the perfect combination of mob type + archnemesis mods that can allow them to kill you before you can react. when power is more concentrated in the base enemy type then you can generally understand when something is going to be dangerous at a glance. part of the reason why archnemesis becomes such a shitshow is you have a combination of league content designed with high base mob power combined with the exponential boom from archnemesis mods creating stuff that's difficult to deal with, like how delve was early in the league.
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Oct 12, 2022 23:27
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Kinda surprised GGG highlighted a Wardloop build, since it doesn't seem to jibe with their ~*ViSiOn*~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW_l0_tPo9k
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Oct 13, 2022 00:07
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FZeroRacer posted:that is generally the exception rather than the norm though; and often archnemesis mods can synergize in really bad ways with said exceptions. This is their intention. Sometimes, you get a combination of mods that make a rare really strong and dangerous. It makes the game interesting and is good.
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Oct 13, 2022 00:13
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totalnewbie posted:This is their intention. wrong
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Oct 13, 2022 00:19
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whypick1 posted:Kinda surprised GGG highlighted a Wardloop build, since it doesn't seem to jibe with their ~*ViSiOn*~ what about it doesn't jive with their vision? wardloop is the current ggg sanctioned autobomber build. I'd argue it's more the culmination of ggg's vision than anything else as it uses a ton of niche stuff to work at all
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Oct 13, 2022 00:24
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How expensive it it now to make? Need a new build to try.
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Oct 13, 2022 00:29
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Herstory Begins Now posted:what about it doesn't jive with their vision? wardloop is the current ggg sanctioned autobomber build. I'd argue it's more the culmination of ggg's vision than anything else as it uses a ton of niche stuff to work at all Semi-serious answer: it looks fun You are right that it is the one approved autobomber build we're allowed to have (funny enough, watched a video earlier today about how dead Herald of Ice/Thunder autobombers are and how they could stand to be reworked). Femur posted:How expensive it it now to make? Need a new build to try. Looking at poe.ninja, the flask is 2d, Divergent CwDTs are 4d, Annhilating Light is ~2d for a 6L, Brutal Restraint is 40c, Heartbound Loops cost nothing basically, Anomolous Skellies are 2-3d, To Dust is ~100c. You do need some pretty good Ward gear to counteract the 70% less mod from the flask though. whypick1 fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 00:41
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i haven't done any of the crafting myself but my understanding is that you can craft good wardloop gear relatively easily by just spamming dense fossils at things
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Oct 13, 2022 00:46
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whypick1 posted:Semi-serious answer: it looks fun I wouldn't try to make wardloop with less than 60div and I'd probably want to have more like 100 div for it. Probably more, especially since ggg just hyped the build. EDIT: looking at this league's prices for wardloop stuff, probably more than 100 at minimum. there aren't really any cheap ways to get around having all the necessary parts you also need i84 flask clusters that are 10 div each for the bases, if not vastly more. the To Dusts you need are 20/20 or 19/20 rolls (you need at least one of each), which is another ~20 div at current prices. all the ward gear requires max level bases with 92 or 100% base rolls and you're then probably spamming dense fossils and finishing with eldritch chaos until you get good enough suffixes. If you're doing omni wardloop, lol probably expect to spend significantly more Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 01:08
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tl:dr; eat poo poo, poors
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Oct 13, 2022 01:13
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Oh yeah, the video kinda skipped over flask duration/charge generation, which is really really important because anything less than 100% uptime on Olroth's = insta-gibbing yourself. Like the video said, if one thing is slightly off the build flat out doesn't work. Link to the build guide forum post
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Oct 13, 2022 01:14
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yeah it's a weird build to showcase on that level. it's a cool concept and the damage is insane, but the stuff it uses is way too niche for the price to not be ridiculously expensive, especially now that you can't just throw a dozen divines at the jewels and flask to get the needed values.
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Oct 13, 2022 01:15
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FZeroRacer posted:that is generally the exception rather than the norm though; and often archnemesis mods can synergize in really bad ways with said exceptions. I don't think I've felt like I've been in a situation this league where I encountered an enemy that could kill me before I could react that was completely out of my control. The closest I can think of where that might be an issue is red beasts, but I've always treated red beasts as dangerous so I play cautiously when I see one show up on my map, so it doesn't really bother me that much if one shows up that I feel is too tough to handle.
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Oct 13, 2022 01:49
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Are Wardloops those ice spear builds? I was looking last night at poe ninja for build ideas, and that was like 2nd most popular skl, but doesn't look like a cyclone variant.
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Oct 13, 2022 01:56
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Femur posted:Are Wardloops those ice spear builds? I was looking last night at poe ninja for build ideas, and that was like 2nd most popular skl, but doesn't look like a cyclone variant. some, but those are largely coc icespear. wardloop was unseating coc icespear last league as the definitive juicer build, but wardloop got hit hard with the divine change as it requires so many max roll items to work. coc, by contrast, you can get running decently on a 5-10 div budget (albeit it's not going to feel really good until significantly more). ironically the nerf to cwdt gem was insignificant to the build's damage output e\/ wardloop is 100% on their radar and has been for quite a while. Ironically it's just the 2022 version of the old jousis heartbound loop cwdt builds. it's a stupid build to nerf because it already is mediocre for a lot of stuff and is probably the single most expensive build to get online currently in the game and it became probably 2-3x as expensive to build this league as it was last league. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 02:17
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whypick1 posted:Kinda surprised GGG highlighted a Wardloop build, since it doesn't seem to jibe with their ~*ViSiOn*~ They always highlighted builds that weren't in line with their vision, it was a death sentence because the build would die a few weeks/patch later.
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Oct 13, 2022 02:17
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I wouldn't try to make wardloop with less than 60div and I'd probably want to have more like 100 div for it. Probably more, especially since ggg just hyped the build. EDIT: looking at this league's prices for wardloop stuff, probably more than 100 at minimum. there aren't really any cheap ways to get around having all the necessary parts All that poo poo is end-game++. You can easily get the build off the ground for less than 20 div if you were prepared to roll your own ward gear. This thread is great for starting out, it's what I used. The biggest money savers are using two 17% To Dusts with the less duration skill nodes, and restricting yourself to 3 (or even 2) flasks initially to make sure your charge generation is ok. Edit: I just realised that thread is the actual BotW thread. There's various others around also.
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Oct 13, 2022 02:51
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those start at 4div rn, olroths is 8div for 42%, you might save some money by using an offmeta set of skills to get a less expensive skin of the lords, but even that's probably still a pile of div rn. the cheapo beginner flask clusters start at 2-3 div and running just 2 flasks is just going to feel like poo poo i suspect the prices are getting temporarily shot to the moon because the build just got highlighted tho, the stuff I'm talking about above isn't really endgame++ so much as just the standard stuff for people fleshing out the build. low budget wardloop feels paper thin. e: also the bases to craft your own gear are still like 1 div a slot and you're going to be using at least a couple div of dense fossils and resonators at a minimum, plus a pile of perfect fossils. The real point here is this: crafting ward loop gear is a loving gold mine. I made probably 2/3 of my mageblood last league making wardloop gear. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 02:59
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totalnewbie posted:This is their intention. No I would really rather just chill and blast maps, or, you know, if I want to opt in to higher difficulty for more rewards, I can choose to do that through the many systems that already exist.
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Oct 13, 2022 03:13
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Herstory Begins Now posted:those start at 4div rn, olroths is 8div for 42%, you might save some money by using an offmeta set of skills to get a less expensive skin of the lords, but even that's probably still a pile of div rn. the cheapo beginner flask clusters start at 2-3 div and running just 2 flasks is just going to feel like poo poo Thank you for your advice. I will decide between a coc(rites or icespear) of mathil's build then, the hype might push price too high for my cheapass.
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Oct 13, 2022 03:14
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interrodactyl posted:No I would really rather just chill and blast maps, or, you know, if I want to opt in to higher difficulty for more rewards, I can choose to do that through the many systems that already exist.
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Oct 13, 2022 03:17
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Femur posted:Thank you for your advice. I will decide between a coc(rites or icespear) of mathil's build then, the hype might push price too high for my cheapass. just a guess, but if you do want to try wardloop later, starter gear will likely be firesale prices in ~2 weeks also all three of those look like very solid choices. Also I don't mean to overly discourage anyone from playing wardloop, poo poo is popular for a reason, it's just $$$ at every step and it's going to feel like a slog if you aren't comfortable making lots of currency already.
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Oct 13, 2022 03:24
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I swear, half the time I see that mana syphoner aura circle the mob also has something that boosts its dot to thousands of damage per second.
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Oct 13, 2022 03:36
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Black Pants posted:I swear, half the time I see that mana syphoner aura circle the mob also has something that boosts its dot to thousands of damage per second. my favorite is magma barrier/lightning mirage + temp bubble
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Oct 13, 2022 03:48
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interrodactyl posted:No I would really rather just chill and blast maps, or, you know, if I want to opt in to higher difficulty for more rewards, I can choose to do that through the many systems that already exist. blast lower tier white maps if your build cant survive or just you know skip the mob
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Oct 13, 2022 03:54
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interrodactyl posted:No I would really rather just chill and blast maps, or, you know, if I want to opt in to higher difficulty for more rewards, I can choose to do that through the many systems that already exist. You can actually just chill and blast maps because AN mods aren't actually that dangerous and people who complain about them are just bad 
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Oct 13, 2022 05:04
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pork never goes bad posted:poe.ninja shows inquisitor as the most popular ascendancy in sentinel league, too. Unless you meant to compare two other leagues. My bad thought it was very low last league, must of been the league before sentinel when they got lightsaber builds and the popularity of RF popped off, though to be fair sentinel had AN rares too. Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 06:04
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you aren't wrong on why inquisitor is sought after though
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Oct 13, 2022 06:09
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totalnewbie posted:This is their intention. there's nothing really fun about them getting 2000% more eHP or dealing high damage. bosses at least have patterns, arenas. different mechanics you want to avoid or things to solve. only a few archnemesis mods get close but that exposes how bad the system is because sometimes the way you're supposed to play around the archnemesis modifier goes against how the mob itself is designed. this is why as usual the best solution to deal with archnemesis modifiers is to just delete them before they do anything dangerous. so lower performing builds are punished while the top end doesn't have to deal with these problems as much.
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Oct 13, 2022 06:14
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:My bad thought it was very low last league, must of been the league before sentinel when they got lightsaber builds and the popularity of RF popped off, though to be fair sentinel had AN rares too. AN league was when Pohx and Zizaran introduced RF to the world in a big way, then in Sentinel it really took off even more. Ironically, RF doesn't use the res pen node that prompted this line of discussion. Edit - which is to say, Inquisitor's tree position and sustain seem to be the biggest drivers of popularity. pork never goes bad fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 06:32
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I'm looking at it as the same way as when elementalist was the hot poo poo cause of their ailment immune with golems and how they could spec into a lot of fun things easily Oh god inquisitor is going to get gutted isn't he
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Oct 13, 2022 07:08
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I feel like the enjoyment of the game in general comes from killing a lot of monsters rather than a few tough monsters (eg everyone in the world homer drools at herald of ice clearing a million guys at once). Enjoyment from killing tough monsters come from bosses. A monster thats just a big yellow version of a guy isnt a boss and isnt very satisfying, and probably lessens your enjoyment because it makes you feel like youre failing to kill a normal guy
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Oct 13, 2022 07:15
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boredsatellite posted:I'm looking at it as the same way as when elementalist was the hot poo poo cause of their ailment immune with golems and how they could spec into a lot of fun things easily inquisitor and elementalist have been unchanged for a while and are clearly in a good spot. I'd be exceedingly surprised if they get hit. I expect GGG to keep reworking the various poo poo-tier ascendancies rather than nerfing ones that have a compelling reason to pick them. totalnewbie posted:You can actually just chill and blast maps because AN mods aren't actually that dangerous and people who complain about them are just bad yeah at this point it's just this. Play better builds and/or just be better/fit some pen in your build. I don't notice AN being any stronger than previous rare combinations and, if anything, AN are significantly less rippy than the old system. If there's one or two mods your build can't handle, you can just run by them until you eventually gear up to the point of outscaling AN mods, which absolutely happens around actually pretty marginal amounts of dps. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 07:53
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dangerdoom volvo posted:I feel like the enjoyment of the game in general comes from killing a lot of monsters rather than a few tough monsters (eg everyone in the world homer drools at herald of ice clearing a million guys at once). Enjoyment from killing tough monsters come from bosses. A monster thats just a big yellow version of a guy isnt a boss and isnt very satisfying, and probably lessens your enjoyment because it makes you feel like youre failing to kill a normal guy I like having regular enemies that are tougher than average, it breaks up the monotony of running maps over and over again. If rares and magic monsters are supposed to just fall over without much fanfare and pose zero threat to the player regardless of build choices then I'd rather they not be in the game because at that point they add nothing to the game.
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Oct 13, 2022 08:00
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I'm gonna be honest I feel no enjoyment killing random enemies. I enjoy seeing my build magically start working and after that I can either quit at around level 75-80 because I reached my goal and peaked, or I have a build that can do bosses, and that is the part that I enjoy so I'll get to 90 or so to optimize it a bit. My happiest moment playing this game was the realization I could self-sustain just bosses with currency generated from them.
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Oct 13, 2022 08:19
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| # ? May 24, 2024 13:22 |
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my problem w the end game rare monsters in this game is that, they are 0 threat. except when theyre not. but it happens once every 10 maps with no warning and its impossible to tell that one is a threat, because if it is it will appear on screen and instagib me. that isnt an interactive or fun mechanic to me. probably out of all the arpgs i play, its absoultely the worst at communicating danger imo.
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Oct 13, 2022 12:05
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