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Rinkles posted:For that one other person interested in RPCS3, there's now a dev maintained CPU tier list. I really need to figure out patching an older microcode into my Z390 bios so I can use TSX. 9900K being top of A-tier with it is pretty crazy. I imagine a hypothetical 12900K with both AVX-512 and full TSX would be pretty crazy at RPCS3.
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Oct 6, 2022 03:58
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BurritoJustice posted:I really need to figure out patching an older microcode into my Z390 bios so I can use TSX. 9900K being top of A-tier with it is pretty crazy. If you figure it out, post details. I'd love to get as much mileage out of my 9900K as possible before having to upgrade again.
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Oct 6, 2022 22:13
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BIG HEADLINE posted:If you figure it out, post details. I'd love to get as much mileage out of my 9900K as possible before having to upgrade again. 
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Oct 7, 2022 12:45
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I tried baby's first overclock with Intel's XTU and in RPCS3's synthetic benchmark I averaged nearly a 16% uplift. From a 46x core ratio and 41x cache ratio, to 52x and 45x (any higher and the pc would crash, but it passed the few stress tests I did at these settings). Temperature was fine. Core voltage was 1.32V when stressed. This was without manually touching voltage offsets, but this was just a quick test out of curiosity. Memory overclocking is supposed to also help Rocket Lake but that's a can of worms I probably shouldn't tinker with.
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Oct 9, 2022 02:44
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Memory overclocking is hilarious, instead of two ratios and a voltage you've got at least three voltages and something like thirty different settings to gently caress around with, and there's no way to isolate which one is causing trouble other than by only changing one at a time, except then some of them interact with some of the others. Different memory chips behave completely differently; some don't scale with voltage at all, while others scale almost linearly, but nobody will tell you which chips are actually on your sticks. Validating anything can take hours and if your settings are unstable you can corrupt your files and/or your OS. Plenty of fun for the whole family. There's actually a quite good guide to DDR4 overclocking these days, so it's less cryptic than it used to be, but it's still not for the faint of heart. I'm almost done dialing in a memory OC for my own system; went from 3600 17-18-18-39 to 4000 17-20-20-40, with a total improvement of about 15% to read and write bandwidth. It's taken over a week of tweaking and a lot of failed stress tests, and I expect this to make very little practical difference at all. It's a Samsung B-die kit so it should really have more potential than this, but I seem to have lost the silicon lottery. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 07:23
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TheFluff posted:Memory overclocking is hilarious, instead of two ratios and a voltage you've got at least three voltages and something like thirty different settings to gently caress around with, and there's no way to isolate which one is causing trouble other than by only changing one at a time, except then some of them interact with some of the others. Different memory chips behave completely differently; some don't scale with voltage at all, while others scale almost linearly, but nobody will tell you which chips are actually on your sticks. Validating anything can take hours and if your settings are unstable you can corrupt your files and/or your OS. Plenty of fun for the whole family. Isn't this a major reason why motherboard vendors specifically QVL memory overclocks? Check out MSI's compatibility list for a pretty basic B660 board: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-B660-A-DDR4/support#mem They're here telling you which kit of DDR4-2133 they actually ran at -5000 by slamming 1.55V into it: 
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Oct 9, 2022 15:12
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Twerk from Home posted:Isn't this a major reason why motherboard vendors specifically QVL memory overclocks? Check out MSI's compatibility list for a pretty basic B660 board: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-B660-A-DDR4/support#mem Yeah, because in addition of the behavior of the memory chips, the way the traces are routed on the motherboard PCB and the quality of said PCB also have significant impact on what kind of memory settings you can run. The silicon quality of the CPU's memory controller also has an impact, and not everything on the QVL might necessarily be possible to run on every CPU. There's extremely little in the way of actual control logic on the sticks themselves (for cost reasons), so the way DDR memory works is that the memory controller basically tells the memory sticks "please prepare this address for reading", then it waits for a certain number of cycles and then it tries to read that address. If the stick isn't ready yet by that time, then you get garbage back instead and there's no way of telling what happened. There's a ton of timings because there's a bunch of different combinations of things that can happen in different orders, and the memory controller needs to know how long it needs to wait in each situation. The XMP profile contains the most important ones, but not all of them, so the memory controller has to guess a bunch (this is a part of what memory training is). It's amazing that it works at all, let alone as well as it does, but all of this fuckery is also the reason there's overclocking headroom. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 17:43
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Danhenge posted:I cannot believe how well my purchase of a 4790K is holding up, even without buying a Z board. It's low-key the 2600k of its generation. The 4770K in my old comp is still working great in most games paired with a RTX 2070 non-S, my kiddo uses those and for the most part nothing has issues. I was running into some trouble with it in the newest titles before I built this 12900K replacement for it, though. Warhammer II and III make it cry, Elden Ring did not run well. Jokes on me there though Elden Ring still does not run well, stutter city every time I play after the first one post-patch. I don't get why it should, everything else runs great. 
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Oct 9, 2022 18:32
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Agreed posted:The 4770K in my old comp is still working great in most games paired with a RTX 2070 non-S, my kiddo uses those and for the most part nothing has issues. I was recently tearing my hair out trying to figure out why Dying Light 2 was stuttering like mad on my machine, like constantly. After trying a couple driver updates or clean installs and exiting all background tasks, I noticed the CPU usage rainmeter graph I keep going on my second screen showed my CPU was idling down during the game. So I switched my windows power profile to High Performance and the stuttering immediately stopped. I still haven't figured out why Dying Light 2 wasn't keeping my CPU at full speed like pretty much every other game does, but at least I have a workaround for now.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:51
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https://twitter.com/TUM_APISAK/status/1580013458292060160 Closing in on 1000 ST points at max TVB. Nuts.
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Oct 12, 2022 02:56
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Did anything happen recently with the ATX12VO standard? Are we still waiting for that to arrive?
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Oct 13, 2022 07:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:Did anything happen recently with the ATX12VO standard? Are we still waiting for that to arrive? It is not going to be a thing in the DIY space. It is already around in force for the Big 3 system builders it was designed for (Dell, HP, and Lenovo).
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Oct 13, 2022 07:25
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Cygni posted:It is not going to be a thing in the DIY space. It is already around in force for the Big 3 system builders it was designed for (Dell, HP, and Lenovo). But why? 12VO will give us cheaper, better, more efficient power supplies, why wouldn't we see it start creeping in. Modern PCs as they exist right now only use a couple watts of 3.3V or 5V anyway.
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Oct 13, 2022 13:31
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Twerk from Home posted:But why? 12VO will give us cheaper, better, more efficient power supplies, why wouldn't we see it start creeping in. because mobo manufacturers don't wanna
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Oct 13, 2022 13:43
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It's not just "don't wanna", you trade these hypothetically more efficient PSUs for excessively complex mainboards you're replacing a lot more often. I don't want to know what sort of cooling abomination you'd have on a 12VO version of one of today's extreme OC mainboards for $1000. And good luck with ITX boards.
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Oct 13, 2022 14:03
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orcane posted:It's not just "don't wanna", you trade these hypothetically more efficient PSUs for excessively complex mainboards you're replacing a lot more often. I don't want to know what sort of cooling abomination you'd have on a 12VO version of one of today's extreme OC mainboards for $1000. And good luck with ITX boards. Doesn't seem like it's that complex. https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-H610M-12VO
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Oct 13, 2022 15:28
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frankly front panel connectors on mobos are even dumber they could like standardized the pin layout while getting rid of at least 3 unnecessary ground wires while at it eons ago
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Oct 13, 2022 16:21
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VorpalFish posted:Doesn't seem like it's that complex.
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Oct 13, 2022 16:28
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orcane posted:Yeah but that's super barebones and only needs to power up to four 5 Gbps USB ports. The more stuff you stick on the board (eg. more, faster USB ports or even Thunderbolt) the more heat you generate on the mainboard which you have to cool away. That cheaper/more efficient PSU gets you more expensive mainboards and more heat in a place where it's harder to get off. Realistically, you'll trade efficiency in your PSU for a loss of efficiency on your mainboard because the latter is inevitably going to be designed to be less durable with cheaper, hotter parts. It's just a couple of buck converters my dude, it's not actually hard or expensive to implement.
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Oct 13, 2022 17:52
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Twerk from Home posted:But why? 12VO will give us cheaper, better, more efficient power supplies, why wouldn't we see it start creeping in.
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Oct 13, 2022 18:17
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:You could also get a better electricity grid, as the AC-DC conversion efficiency on 230V is much higher than 110V. Nothing is stopping you from wiring up a NEMA 6-15 and being the change you wanna see in the world.
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Oct 13, 2022 18:30
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orcane posted:Yeah but that's super barebones and only needs to power up to four 5 Gbps USB ports. The more stuff you stick on the board (eg. more, faster USB ports or even Thunderbolt) the more heat you generate on the mainboard which you have to cool away. That cheaper/more efficient PSU gets you more expensive mainboards and more heat in a place where it's harder to get off. Realistically, you'll trade efficiency in your PSU for a loss of efficiency on your mainboard because the latter is inevitably going to be designed to be less durable with cheaper, hotter parts. There's basically nothing you'd power in a modern computer that's going to pull substantial wattage at 3 or 5v. Heat will be trivial, even with lots of USB.
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Oct 13, 2022 18:39
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Yeah it's not like the Dells and Lenovos of the world are moving to 12VO because it's more expensive.
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Oct 13, 2022 20:23
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I was under the impression that motherboards already needed their own circuitry for feeding USB and the power supply’s wasn’t acceptable for that purpose. And that the only real drawback of 12VO was legacy SATA. Is that wrong?
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Oct 13, 2022 20:28
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Inept posted:Yeah it's not like the Dells and Lenovos of the world are moving to 12VO because it's more expensive. The big OEMs are also required to use it by law in California, which is why Intel put the standard out to begin with. The reason that it hasn't been adopted for the DIY space is that it doesn't really offer any benefits for that market, but has an increased cost in the short run, the risk of complicating store shelves and confusing consumers with multiple standards, and potentially upsetting consumers that have decades of hardware for the prior standard. That all of the major PSU factories have released their first new architectures in years lately for the ATX 3.0 16pin connector and all of them include the 5/3.3/-12 rails speaks volumes to me. Nobody expects 12VO to happen in DIY anytime soon, if ever. GN did a whole break down, with quotes from everyone from Intel to product designers to PSU factories a few years back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur2eSL344Xs&t=244s
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Oct 13, 2022 21:02
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 Forcing a complete redesign of motherboards (making them even more expensive) and obsoleting a bunch of power supplies which are fine just to save...4 W at 20W idle load seems foolish to me.
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Oct 14, 2022 07:34
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Shipon posted:
It lets lawmakers tick a really insignificant environmentalism checkbox to make people feel nice and warm inside about "saving the planet" while doing effectively nothing.
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Oct 14, 2022 07:44
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That's probably the efficiency gain for PSUs that really matter. As napkin math let's assume 200 million business desktops worldwide that are always on mostly idling, so that 4w would total to about 7 TWh savings per year, about a half a nuclear plant.
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Oct 14, 2022 08:32
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Motherboards and PSUs get new design from time to time anyway so nothing is really obsoleted. Saving 20% at idle seems like a good idea. Anyway where's my 13900?
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Oct 14, 2022 08:40
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Shipon posted:
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Accessories-%7C-Parts/PC-Components/Power-Supplies/ATX12VO-Adapter-Cable/p/CP-8920272 PSUs won't be obsoleted, and the BOM increase to motherboards is negligible, and calling it a complete redesign is quite a stretch. It really should not cost that much, but it still won't happen unless it's mandated because it costs anything at all
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Oct 14, 2022 12:25
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Old motherboards could use something like a picoATX to derive other voltages from 12V supplied by new 12VO PSUs. Old power supplies shouldn't need anything other than a "narrowing" adapter to connect to a new motherboard. A custom PC built around 12VO could use bus bars to power the components. Those hypothetical bus bars would probably look pretty cool next to custom-bent coolant pipes.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:10
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Chasing 4w gains is dumb, but also the existing PSU spec is outdated and at some point it has to go. 12VO is eventually going to become a thing. It's not a bad thing that revolutions in PC hardware happen. It's literally the thing we're all here to enjoy.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:12
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PBCrunch posted:Old motherboards could use something like a picoATX to derive other voltages from 12V supplied by new 12VO PSUs. Old power supplies shouldn't need anything other than a "narrowing" adapter to connect to a new motherboard. I thought this was difficult to impossible due to 12VO missing the 5VSB rail (or an equivalent). If that's not the case I'd love to know.
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Oct 14, 2022 17:50
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Saukkis posted:That's probably the efficiency gain for PSUs that really matter. As napkin math let's assume 200 million business desktops worldwide that are always on mostly idling, so that 4w would total to about 7 TWh savings per year, about a half a nuclear plant. Yeah, this is what I was thinking - 4W isn't a big deal for a few systems, but if you think about it as applying to every single desktop that's on but idle it adds up to a fair amount. With high-quality PSUs already being very efficient under load, this seems like a reasonable next step in driving the state of the art forward. Also, I really hate seeing OEMs move back in the direction of proprietary PSUs and motherboards which require them. If ATX12VO prevents perfectly functional hardware from getting junked for that reason, so much for the better. power crystals posted:I thought this was difficult to impossible due to 12VO missing the 5VSB rail (or an equivalent). If that's not the case I'd love to know. There's a 12VSB rail now, I believe - you'd just need conversion to 5V for it as well. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Oct 14, 2022 |
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Oct 14, 2022 18:46
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K8.0 posted:Chasing 4w gains is dumb, but also the existing PSU spec is outdated and at some point it has to go. 12VO is eventually going to become a thing. It's not a bad thing that revolutions in PC hardware happen. It's literally the thing we're all here to enjoy. This is my feeling about several parts of the ATX standard. The insane 4090 coolers are highlighting that we've been using low-profile coolers constrained by ATX pci card limitations on the hottest part of our computers for more than a decade now, and DDR5 is careening straight towards the signaling limits for DIMM sockets and traces. Part of Apples insane memory bandwidth in their new chips is that they aren't using DIMMs. Dell is using a new, non-DIMM standard for memory that let's them run 128 GB if DDR5 at much faster clocks: https://www.storagereview.com/review/dell-camm-dram-the-new-laptop-standard Bring on the change. We don't have floppy connectors anymore, and it's insane to bring a giant bundle of wires to the mobo and have 3.3V and 5V rails in our power supplies.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:00
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It’s not just that apple isn’t using dimms, that they’re using lpddr instead of ddr, which is moving faster than ddr. You can see this with NVIDIAs upcoming Grace processor for ai/supercomputers using LPDDR5 instead of DDR5.
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Oct 15, 2022 01:12
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This maybe isn’t the place for this, but can someone tell me why there are so few options for usb-c fanout hubs? You get maybe 2 ports on a pc these days (back panel, front panel) but a lot of devices are usb-C now. But apart from dock style expanders that maybe give you one more usb c port along with a hdmi, ethernet jack I haven’t found many fanout hubs. There’s a 4 port from Saetichi and that’s about it! *Seinfeld voice* What’s the deal with the lack of usb c hubs??
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Oct 15, 2022 01:50
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priznat posted:This maybe isn’t the place for this, but can someone tell me why there are so few options for usb-c fanout hubs? You get maybe 2 ports on a pc these days (back panel, front panel) but a lot of devices are usb-C now. But apart from dock style expanders that maybe give you one more usb c port along with a hdmi, ethernet jack I haven’t found many fanout hubs. There’s a 4 port from Saetichi and that’s about it! USB-C is not a trivial port to implement fully with lots of fan-out and full capability to every port, lol. There's a lot there... power delivery (voltage configurable per usb-c port), 10gbps data, displayport alt mode, pcie mode, etc. Have fun routing 100W power delivery and DP1.4 tunneling to every single loving port. And if you just want 10gbps data, why do you need USB-C at all? regular old USB A is great for data, and it's super cheap to get hubs for. nobody does super wide fanout of usb-c data-only because that's a weird use-case. A lot of those hubs have those things because people want to use them like portable docks, an all-purpose dongle that does all the things, that's a common use-case. And basic implementations are extremely cheap - a 1gbe ethernet nic is like probably well under a dollar these days, probably like 10-25c, HDMI 1.4 converter chips are made by the billions, HDMI 2.0 converters are getting pretty common, DP can be passthrough, etc. And be warned, a lot of the lovely cheap all-purpose hubs aren't really meant for sustained load either, if you're maxing the NIC or pushing tons of data for hours on end, most of them will overheat and throttle, etc. They're not guaranteeing industrial reliability here. And it's a lot cheaper to hook up five specific things than to route full capability to a bunch of ports. thunderbolt/usb4 is cool for laptops and for general high-speed expansion, but it's super expensive to implement. usb-c is a morass of "it's not thunderbolt and the usb-IF created a completely inscrutable mess, and also some of these are still expensive ports to break out and support so it's still not  either". Oh and not all of it is reliable either. IMO for desktops (and for connecting to the dock) there is still a big role for dedicated cable types, we don't need a usb-c displayport display and a printer and an external drive attached to expensive full-capability ports when we could have a much cheaper port for interfacing with the boring legacy standards and have a "superport" or maybe two or three that does everything. But if you take it to its conclusion like Apple it's at least functionally useful - a Mac Studio has four full-capability thunderbolt ports and can run all four at once (not necessarily maxed out at the same time I don't think). A Macbook Air/Pro, all the ports are the same (although you may not be able to run all of them in TB at once, it tops out at 2 TB connections iirc). Like that's actually a functionally neat outcome as long as you're not enough of a power user to max it out, and don't mind spending a ton of money on docks/dongles/cables/enclosures.anyway to answer your question, this is what you're looking for, yep, that's actually not an awful price, lol. they mention under "NO THUNDERBOLT? NO PROBLEM" that it works in USB-C mode. hopefully it comes down a lot as usb4 starts to take off. or, if you want something that does data only like that satechi hub, I bet there's some lovely chinese usb-a-to-usb-c adapters that let you go the wrong way and plug a usb-c cable into a usb-a connection... get a 8-port usb-A hub and plug in 8 dongles. it's the suicide cord of usb-c, completely against spec but it's all just usb data frames so... Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Oct 15, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 02:48
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Looks like we're two days away from Raptor Lake? I think I'll finally pull the trigger on a new build. First since Q6600 lol. New CPUs from both Intel and AMD, and GPUs from all three vendors coming out in the near future. No buttcoin or covid shortages. DDR5 not insanely priced. I'm seeing a huge spreadsheet of prices and performances before my eyes.
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Oct 18, 2022 14:50
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mobby_6kl posted:Looks like we're two days away from Raptor Lake? I think I'll finally pull the trigger on a new build. First since Q6600 lol. New CPUs from both Intel and AMD, and GPUs from all three vendors coming out in the near future. No buttcoin or covid shortages. DDR5 not insanely priced. I'm seeing a huge spreadsheet of prices and performances before my eyes. Maybe it’ll force reasonable motherboard prices?
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Oct 18, 2022 15:06
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