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Edgar Allan Pwned posted:I feel like i need to be spoonfed why construction sucks most of the time. maybe its bad because the weight is on the much smaller jutted piece of wood? which is more likely to fail because its not supported by anything below? This is why there's so much content for this thread: Not much of this stuff is very intuitive. So yes if you are a builder and actually know stuff, please feel free to explain the jokes
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Oct 13, 2022 21:32
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Potato Salad posted:grab a cardboard box A wise goon once said that you can't predict where tile joints will line up. I propose that they used this building technique because they didn't know where to put the footing.
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Oct 13, 2022 21:47
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Potato Salad posted:that's a good way to make sure the steps line up flush with the porch in the right place. the square frame as is has no capacity to survive shear -- watch that fucker wobble as they're gluing parts together Once they're all connected though it's not a square frame and the shear strength goes up quite a bit. All the risers are acting in shear. Now they have some sort of torsional shear thing going on that is... well I would just rather have a normal set of stairs I guess. Also it appears to be a treehouse which is generally not great.
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Oct 13, 2022 21:59
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Edgar Allan Pwned posted:I feel like i need to be spoonfed why construction sucks most of the time. maybe its bad because the weight is on the much smaller jutted piece of wood? which is more likely to fail because its not supported by anything below? When you nail together sticks into a square, the top and bottom sticks will keep the side sticks parallel to each other, and the side sticks will keep the top and bottom sticks parallel, but nothing will keep the corners square except the very weak holding power of your nails. This means your square can easily become a rhombus if you push the top stick sideways. If your square is standing upright when this happens, it will quickly become four sticks on the ground. These people have built a stair which is made up of a series of squares (well, rectangles, but the principle is the same) but have not added anything to keep those squares from becoming rhombuses, which will most likely happen when someone is walking on them. Maybe they’re going to add something to keep their squares squares later, but that’s not what they put in the video.
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Oct 13, 2022 21:59
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What IS the proper way to make those stairs, as they're built now, stable?
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Oct 13, 2022 22:05
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totalnewbie posted:What IS the proper way to make those stairs, as they're built now, stable? I would add diagonal bracing between the vertical 2x4s to keep it stiff left and right; then add some horizontal braces along the inside and outside to keep it stiff forward and back. In the end, just using a standard stair stringer is probably faster and cheaper.
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Oct 13, 2022 22:09
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totalnewbie posted:What IS the proper way to make those stairs, as they're built now, stable? The proper way is to tear them down and build them correctly. No amount of bracing can fix the fundamental deficiencies to a point that any reasonable building official would sign off on them as meeting code. Could it TECHNICALLY be braced enough to be safe? Sure. But you're gonna need to get a structural engineer to draw as builts, do load calcs, design the bracing and stamp the plans (which means they are accepting the professional liability for the design being safe).
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Oct 13, 2022 22:10
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Right, right. It's a good thing I'm not interested in building my own stairs. It's too much work when you can just stack some milk crates together. Maybe zip ties if it's wobbly.
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Oct 13, 2022 22:14
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I think a lot of YouTuber projects end up being done with some style over practicality. That one is April Wilkerson who built that outdoor raised tree platform thing. About 2:40 they start reinforce those stairs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcKryyH2Eow&t=160s
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Oct 13, 2022 22:15
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hypnophant posted:These people have built a stair which is made up of a series of squares (well, rectangles, but the principle is the same) but have not added anything to keep those squares from becoming rhombuses, which will most likely happen when someone is walking on them. Maybe they’re going to add something to keep their squares squares later, but that’s not what they put in the video. i understand what you're getting at here, but to my eyes each "stair" in the video appears to be shaped less like a rectangle and more like a croquet wicket
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Oct 13, 2022 22:30
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Rexxed posted:I think a lot of YouTuber projects end up being done with some style over practicality. That one is April Wilkerson who built that outdoor raised tree platform thing. About 2:40 they start reinforce those stairs: Ok now i really don’t understand what’s going on. Don’t the treads usually sit on top of the stringers? Is she building the stringers there by gluing and screwing them onto the sides of the treads and then trimming them down? What’s holding the treads up?
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Oct 13, 2022 22:35
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Load-bearing clout.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:04
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hypnophant posted:What’s holding the treads up? By the little bit of that video I was able to stomach it appears that drywall screws in shear and construction adhesive are doing the bulk of the work. This is most definitely not a good or safe thing.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:15
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hypnophant posted:Ok now i really don’t understand what’s going on. Don’t the treads usually sit on top of the stringers? Is she building the stringers there by gluing and screwing them onto the sides of the treads and then trimming them down? Yes, she explains it about 20 seconds into the video.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:20
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totalnewbie posted:What IS the proper way to make those stairs, as they're built now, stable? nukes
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Oct 13, 2022 23:27
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Cat Hatter posted:Yes, she explains it about 20 seconds into the video. That's not a sufficient or satisfying explanation considering this completely "unique" method. What it comes down to is they are using a lot of plywood, screws and construction adhesive to build an outdoor staircase that isn't going to be safe for more than a few years. This method of construction is safe and appropriate for set pieces and stage props, not actual residential or commercial structures, never mind outdoor ones. Too many people don't understand the difference there.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:30
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Motronic posted:That's not a sufficient or satisfying explanation considering this completely "unique" method. What it comes down to is they are using a lot of plywood, screws and construction adhesive to build an outdoor staircase that isn't going to be safe for more than a few years. Good job! She'll get a lot of YouTube hits out of it, at least. It's all about engagement, baby.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:32
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What does residential construction code have to say about using live trees as critical support members of a structure for human occupation? I feel like tree houses are everywhere and somehow just conveniently bypass all sorts of code enforcement. Maybe "you can't make us tear that down it'll break the kids' hearts" is an effective strategy for obtaining variance permits, I dunno.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:39
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Leperflesh posted:What does residential construction code have to say about using live trees as critical support members of a structure for human occupation? I feel like tree houses are everywhere and somehow just conveniently bypass all sorts of code enforcement. Maybe "you can't make us tear that down it'll break the kids' hearts" is an effective strategy for obtaining variance permits, I dunno. Where I live, no permit or inspection is needed for a treehouse.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:41
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Leperflesh posted:What does residential construction code have to say about using live trees as critical support members of a structure for human occupation? I feel like tree houses are everywhere and somehow just conveniently bypass all sorts of code enforcement. Maybe "you can't make us tear that down it'll break the kids' hearts" is an effective strategy for obtaining variance permits, I dunno. The I-codes basically say "no". In more nuance, they say "you need an engineer to certify the safety of the variances you are asking for". In reality they are never legally built in places that have code enforcement and the rest are unpermitted and illegal. Edit: Deteriorata posted:Where I live, no permit or inspection is needed for a treehouse. I'm talking about actual houses with electric and plumbing built as tree houses. I believe that's what Leperfish is asking about as well. They have been "a thing" as ADUs/rental for a while now.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:43
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hypnophant posted:Ok now i really don’t understand what’s going on. Don’t the treads usually sit on top of the stringers? Is she building the stringers there by gluing and screwing them onto the sides of the treads and then trimming them down? i was confused until i saw that the horizontal pieces in the initial parts are like a subframe and not the actual treads. the stringers are build around those (+the risers), and then the actual treads are added later on top of the stringers (so the load isnt transferred through the glue or the screws) edit: the waterproofing at the bottom the risers seems...inadequate though Slanderer fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Oct 13, 2022 |
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Oct 13, 2022 23:44
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Motronic posted:That's not a sufficient or satisfying explanation considering this completely "unique" method. What it comes down to is they are using a lot of plywood, screws and construction adhesive to build an outdoor staircase that isn't going to be safe for more than a few years. I was just confirming hypnophant's hypothesis and providing a citation, not saying its how I would build a staircase (although personally I'd rather climb a rope with some knots in it than bend wood into a curved staircase). Leperflesh posted:What does residential construction code have to say about using live trees as critical support members of a structure for human occupation? I feel like tree houses are everywhere and somehow just conveniently bypass all sorts of code enforcement. Maybe "you can't make us tear that down it'll break the kids' hearts" is an effective strategy for obtaining variance permits, I dunno. I think she lives in Texas so they probably don't give the slightest poo poo.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:46
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Cat Hatter posted:I was just confirming hypnophant's hypothesis and providing a citation, not saying its how I would build a staircase (although personally I'd rather climb a rope with some knots in it than bend wood into a curved staircase). Oh, I wasn't trying to have a go at you, sorry if it came off like that. I'm ranting at this stupid stupid video.
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Oct 13, 2022 23:52
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Motronic posted:I'm talking about actual houses with electric and plumbing built as tree houses. I believe that's what Leperfish is asking about as well. They have been "a thing" as ADUs/rental for a while now. Yeah, for human habitation, vs. whatever they decide a treehouse is, probably a "play structure" similar to a swing set except improvised... just, not something that construction code even contemplates really. There was a whole tv series a while back called "Treehouse Masters" with this super overenthusiastic tree house loving dude who would build elaborate things for rich people all over the country, and they were clearly actually homes/ADUs and I never saw the slightest hint that anything was being inspected or signed off.
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Oct 14, 2022 00:05
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Leperflesh posted:Yeah, for human habitation, vs. whatever they decide a treehouse is, probably a "play structure" similar to a swing set except improvised... just, not something that construction code even contemplates really. Those were typically just tree adjacent and not using it for structural support. When you looked it was a circular ADU or something around the tree but on posts anchored in concrete. At least from what I remember from watching it ages ago.
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Oct 14, 2022 00:41
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Some of them were like that for sure, but they ran rods as anchors all the way through trees and put stuff way up high sometimes too.
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Oct 14, 2022 01:16
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Motronic posted:Oh, I wasn't trying to have a go at you, sorry if it came off like that. I'm ranting at this stupid stupid video. Fair enough. Honestly though, when grading on the curve of "how people build decks" in the real world, I'd still give that staircase a C. Probably a C+ if there was a footing. Yes, it should have 3 proper stringers holding all the weight from underneath, but there is so much "this is how they used to build decks in the 70s" bullshit out there I can't really get too mad about it. I still see people lagging notched 4x4s into a single rim joist with no supporting hardware and then using horizontal cables for spindles (which is expressly forbidden in Michigan) and everyone just kind of ignores it. By the way, that grade is almost definitely going down to a D+ at best once the railing is installed, because I have no idea how you'd even attempt to attach it to a free floating staircase like that.
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Oct 14, 2022 01:18
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I bet that treehouse is on airbnb already.
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Oct 14, 2022 01:19
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:I bet that treehouse is on airbnb already. 100% this.
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Oct 14, 2022 01:53
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Motronic posted:By the little bit of that video I was able to stomach it appears that drywall screws in shear and construction adhesive are doing the bulk of the work. Getting serious ex-brother-in-law vibes here. He had a lake house thathe was "rebuilding." It had a second floor area/platform over the kitchen that was fastened to the wall framing with a band joist & that was great, but he executed the 'floating' part by suspending the opposite rim/band joists by chains that were lag-bolted ...to the roof's ridge beam (which is not a structural member). "It's OK!" he said. "Everything is screwed and glued!" My wife & I (both property adjusters) were appalled. No, we did not go up. In fact, that was the first & last time we visited that house. I have built exactly one staircase. (behind the hornet nest)  No style points; nothing fancy. I got it right, but that was beginner's luck. I will never attempt another.
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Oct 14, 2022 03:34
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Potato Salad posted:grab a cardboard box After watching that do you think they will pour a footing? They don’t even have stringers.
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Oct 14, 2022 05:00
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Splicer posted:Load-bearing clout. And that just makes me think the Communist bridge in Disco Elysium.
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Oct 14, 2022 07:14
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His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Oct 14, 2022 |
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Oct 14, 2022 08:44
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Cat Hatter posted:I still see people lagging notched 4x4s into a single rim joist with no supporting hardware Exactly what is done on my deck right now and a major reason I describe it as "on it's way out". The deck is small enough that most of the railing is sturdy just because they are corners, but the ends of those runs are wobbly. I have a distinct feeling it's going to be torn down ahead of schedule this winter. If I see anything fun I'll share it. From the casual inspection of the outside and peeking underneath it might be fun. The specific way that parts of it sag and are supported and rehabilitated are very peculiar. I suspect there was a small deck that got added onto and decked.
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Oct 14, 2022 16:15
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Since not everyone checks samart, I figured I'd toss in a link to a thread I made in case anyone wants to play around in some floorplan software for me. I wish i had some pictures of an apartment building i used to live in, but fun news for this thread is that the owners added laundry hookups a few years before I moved in. They saved some money by having the dryer vents just dump straight into the walls. Thankfully the place was recently closed down, but i had no clue the entire year I lived there
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Oct 14, 2022 16:31
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"do you have curved stairs in your treehouse?" "I am protected."
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Oct 14, 2022 18:09
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Empty Sandwich posted:"do you have curved stairs in your treehouse?"
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Oct 14, 2022 18:16
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Oct 14, 2022 18:21
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Oct 14, 2022 18:26
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Oct 14, 2022 19:11
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