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I feel the total warhammer itch I remember one big thing tw3 was supposed to do was make sieges more varied and interesting, did they succeed?
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Oct 14, 2022 21:55
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*grabs popcorn*
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Oct 14, 2022 21:58
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Mustang posted:I would love to know how CA is organized because there is a stark difference in quality between base WH3 and the last few years of WH2. it turns out making a new thing from whole cloth is harder than refining an existing thing based on continuous feedback. Jay Rust posted:I feel the total warhammer itch sieges are mostly better but minor settlements now have their own siege-style maps that pretty much nobody likes BTW ROC is fine now. the patches after launch did a lot to improve it.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:08
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Walled settlement fights are basically the same except there are more towers now and the AI can place stuff down to ruin your unit pathing. I'm actually enjoying the minor settlement battles with most factions now. I'd like a higher field battle ratio, but I don't want minor settlement battles gone anymore. I do want the movement blocking barricades gone though.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:13
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Jay Rust posted:I feel the total warhammer itch They are different. They still have the problem that they did in previous WHs: there are far too many of them in a campaign compared to field battles. I also happen to think the settlement battles are better than old sieges, and like the difference between walled and unwalled settlements, but the core complaints are there. Also some factions have a much harder time with settlements than others. Indirect fire remains excellent but having linebreaker infantry helps a lot more than it used to.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:16
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yeti friend posted:Walled settlement fights are basically the same except there are more towers now and the AI can place stuff down to ruin your unit pathing some maps have inherently terrible pathing. units will get stuck on corners, wander off unexpectedly because of barricades (even if the barricades were there when you issued the order!), and just generally behave very unpredictably on certain maps, like most of the skaven, ogre, and orc settlements. the badlands orc settlements are the worst in the game: they're incredibly long, they're full of places that look like paths you can cross but aren't, have lots of towers placed very far from their capture points, has a sloping hill that weirdly blocks LOS so enemies just seem to appear on top of you, and the AI can't even play them correctly and regularly just gets lost. if every settlement was as bad as those ones, i think i'd quit playing TWW3.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:21
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Minor Settlements should just give the defenders a tower or two and not this weird maze situation that the AI can't figure out.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:24
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For settlements they need to: Make defensive buildings a pre battle choice. Make walled settlements with more open space to fight in and a couple of choke points, rather than just choke points. Maybe have more than one wall so you have to deal with attacking an inner bastion after breaching the outer wall. Stop units passing through walls and obstacles magically. Walls should have egress points and barricades should exist for defenders.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:26
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Minor Settlements are great and emphasize playing differently and different army comps and utility for rosters that'd otherwise get minmaxed to hell and back, especially early on. They are also all-star fun times to shine for FAST factions, or Big Flyer factions, or so on. HOWEVER they are too common and some are weirdly balanced and gameable, like Skaven and Nurgle Defense and so on. It is also painful to advance a gunline army into a settlement however Big Artillery usually does the same cheesy work it always did and to be quite honest I appreciate that after WH2 the devs wanted to punish "hide in a corner and empty my ammo" playstyle. Steadily advance and turn and gun down the goofy respawning towers, the advantage of a ranged faction is you can shoot the tower. Otherwise bring a little flyer fist of 3+ units, even harpies or TK vultures. I think all of this is true: quote:some maps have inherently terrible pathing. units will get stuck on corners, wander off unexpectedly because of barricades (even if the barricades were there when you issued the order!), and just generally behave very unpredictably on certain maps, But I also think the average Total War Warhammer enjoyer has a pavlovian response to unavoidable damage and should realize that as long as they win the siege they can usually lose 25%+ of every unit in their army and instantly replenish it because winning a siege throws you into a city. I mean I get it, if I can I will toss my entire army on one side and blow away their one tower so I can start dissecting them at my leisure, but there's so much good anti-settlement tech now that especially rewards army mobility. Just placing your army slightly closer to one gate while between two of them, starting the match and repositioning to slam into the other gate is good tactics and hilariously effective. Send your cavalry/dogs off to break an unguarded gate and backcap stuff. Etc. It's better than WH2 by a mile where the turtle block was generally the best approach... but playing Vamp Counts taught me how much more fun the speedrun is for the sake of variety.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:31
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The outpost system rules in co-op. I'm about to have my Saurus backed up by Lothern Sea Guard on turn ~9.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:55
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Cease to Hope posted:it turns out making a new thing from whole cloth is harder than refining an existing thing based on continuous feedback. I mean, WH3 at release felt very much as the product of someone who made release-WH2 and never looked at the feedback WH2 got.
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Oct 14, 2022 22:59
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Shumagorath posted:The outpost system rules in co-op. I'm about to have my Saurus backed up by Lothern Sea Guard on turn ~9. A combined army of elves, dwarfs, and humans stand against the end of all things-- Archaon himself, returned to-- oh he's dead now, shot to death by two volleys from handgunners.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:02
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Shumagorath posted:The outpost system rules in co-op. I'm about to have my Saurus backed up by Lothern Sea Guard on turn ~9. Saurus turned Brettonian peasant armies into a murderous horde
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Oct 14, 2022 23:08
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Slaanesh is a really fun playthrough because it's easy to get vassalises humans/elves. So you can run armies of demons supported by hellblaster guns, shades, archers on eagles, etc which rules.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:12
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The main thing I think the rework failed to do was give gunline or ranged armies safe (r) firing positions overlooking access points/entryways.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:16
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I think your opinion of minor settlement battle maps depends largely on what factions you play or play against. Plan on killing a lot of high elves? gently caress you for playing, sorry, die running uphill into a thousand towers you won't use nearly as well as the AI, with arbitrary lines of sight! Gonna be dwarfmurdering? Hope you like manually fighting everything in a dark brick pit because less than 2 full stacks is punching into insane defender-bias in the autoresolve against those stubby freaks. Meanwhile, tomb kings look like they'll be hard but their settlements are kicking down balsa wood walls and knocking over towers made of solo cups. Really comes down to what you're dealing with more than who you're playing, honestly.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:24
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Jay Rust posted:I feel the total warhammer itch Walled settlement sieges are the same as they always were, but now unwalled settlements have settlement battles (similar to Three Kingdoms) instead of field battles. Personally, I think they strike a good balance between the flexibility of field battles and the interesting terrain of siege battles, but a lot of people would rather just see more field battles.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:44
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:I think your opinion of minor settlement battle maps depends largely on what factions you play or play against. Plan on killing a lot of high elves? gently caress you for playing, sorry, die running uphill into a thousand towers you won't use nearly as well as the AI, with arbitrary lines of sight! Gonna be dwarfmurdering? Hope you like manually fighting everything in a dark brick pit because less than 2 full stacks is punching into insane defender-bias in the autoresolve against those stubby freaks. Brettonia in particular makes a goddamned mockery of them. Mobility trumps everything else in settlements Which is honestly kind of refreshing. Settlement battles force a different playstyle which makes viable a lot of different options Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 14, 2022 |
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Oct 14, 2022 23:45
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I played my last campaign on hard and the AI seemed to have cheating amounts of defensive supplies and could always build a ton of towers. That is so freaking lame compared to the player who gets maybe 2 towers up with walls.
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Oct 14, 2022 23:51
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WarpedLichen posted:I played my last campaign on hard and the AI seemed to have cheating amounts of defensive supplies and could always build a ton of towers. That is so freaking lame compared to the player who gets maybe 2 towers up with walls. The rebuild timers are so short that I don't even bother attacking mid-settlement towers anymore. I just accept that my units are going to eat some arrows on the attack.
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Oct 15, 2022 00:04
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Vizuyos posted:Walled settlement sieges are the same as they always were, but now unwalled settlements have settlement battles (similar to Three Kingdoms) instead of field battles. What I would like is both more field battles and more unbalanced field battles in terms of terrain. Maybe not quite to the level of crossing battles, but closer to that, and giving the defender a bit more control over the battlefield. I think it would vary the field battles more too.
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Oct 15, 2022 00:11
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WarpedLichen posted:I played my last campaign on hard and the AI seemed to have cheating amounts of defensive supplies and could always build a ton of towers. That is so freaking lame compared to the player who gets maybe 2 towers up with walls. Isn't that because the AI spams the 500-cost towers, while players save up for more efficient towers on most factions? Plus two towers is honestly plenty since you rarely want to defend multiple points anyway (in minor settlements, and the AI basically never attacks with enough forces to threaten a major settlement with a garrison building).
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Oct 15, 2022 00:15
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Staltran posted:Isn't that because the AI spams the 500-cost towers, while players save up for more efficient towers on most factions? Plus two towers is honestly plenty since you rarely want to defend multiple points anyway (in minor settlements, and the AI basically never attacks with enough forces to threaten a major settlement with a garrison building). With how long it takes to build towers after map start I usually only build the 500 pt ones after I start with whatever i can afford, because any longer and I feel like I will get overrun otherwise. Things like Kislev's +500/turn can get you some nice defensive batteries if you hold out for awhile. And since you can get nice attrition reduction from the garrison building and apply attrition to the enemy from Ursun's invocation you can get some decent holds. It feels thematic at least. E: and for some factions I don't build towers at all until later, like VCounts. They get the healing barricade everywhere instead. Would like more barricade slots in settlements in general to be able to actually barricade an entrance instead of having most situations with a clear, easy walk-around on the same route and little ability to pressure enemies. Also would like more unique barricades like the above. Give Kislev a minor mortis effect and slow in one of them, or Skaven one that gives stalk amd snipe to units within it, for instance. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 15, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 00:38
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Raygereio posted:But the team made the base WH2 and WH3 games didn't make something brand new. it was specifically replying to someone comparing the state of the brand-new WH3 factions to the state of the WH2 faction reworks reworking a faction based on a year plus of feedback is easier than making a new one.
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Oct 15, 2022 04:04
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Cease to Hope posted:it was specifically replying to someone comparing the state of the brand-new WH3 factions to the state of the WH2 faction reworks This is doubly true when you're reworking a lot of how the core game dynamics work so you can't just extrapolate. Misses are gonna happen, and expecting a perfect launch is honestly dumb as hell. They did gently caress up the RoC campaign though and should have listened to their play tester feedback a lot more. Reeks of an EP with a Vision who couldn't let go (this is speaking from direct experience, its a nightmare).
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Oct 15, 2022 07:08
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I mean.... given the stories about some of the streamers, I don't blame them for not listening
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Oct 15, 2022 07:09
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Uh-oh, my Valkia game Tyrion showed up to save Mazdamundi from me and he's a goddamn fire-immune 100 MA monster. I guess my best option is to try to avoid him, kill the rest of his army, and autoresolve him to death in a second battle?
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Oct 15, 2022 07:49
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Sindai posted:Uh-oh, my Valkia game Tyrion showed up to save Mazdamundi from me and he's a goddamn fire-immune 100 MA monster. I guess my best option is to try to avoid him, kill the rest of his army, and autoresolve him to death in a second battle? Yeah, and hope he doesn't find a way to become unbreakable. At least you can army loss rout him until then. But yeah, Tyrion being near immune to fire makes him a loving pain for the fire-heavy armies. Also Valkia can at least send Chosen after him, unless she gives her whole army fire the way Volkmar does.
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Oct 15, 2022 08:03
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Ravenfood posted:Yeah, and hope he doesn't find a way to become unbreakable. At least you can army loss rout him until then. But yeah, Tyrion being near immune to fire makes him a loving pain for the fire-heavy armies. Chosen of Khorne have innate flaming attacks.
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Oct 15, 2022 08:06
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Sindai posted:Uh-oh, my Valkia game Tyrion showed up to save Mazdamundi from me and he's a goddamn fire-immune 100 MA monster. I guess my best option is to try to avoid him, kill the rest of his army, and autoresolve him to death in a second battle? Valkia, Chosen with Halberds, and the Blood Brute Behemoth (RoR Ghorgon) are all anti-large monsters who hit hard and have lots of AP. At that level he should be on his horse, so he counts as large. He is however, a complete loving monster, so your other plan isn't bad either. If you wanna try and take him directly, bog him down, and then cycle charge in your big ones. He is an insane psycho though. I usually try to root him and destroy him with ranged, but you're Khorne, so lol. TaintedBalance fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Oct 15, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 08:09
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Cease to Hope posted:Chosen of Khorne have innate flaming attacks. E: Bloodbrute Behemoth is a great idea if you have access to it. No fire damage and if you can rout Tyrion's army quickly and give the Behemoth support you could take him down too. And since I'm an idiot and posted this in the WH2 thread: Also, drat, I think I've come around on ice magic. Katarin with Heart of Winter does some loving work, plus the sheer amount of control you get with Ice Sheet. It isn't flashy like some of the bigger line-melters but she can get 500+ kills easily with it. And Death Frost is essentially slightly more expensive per second, longer-lasting Spirit Leech, which helps Kislev pretty nicely. In comparison Tempest has a nice ranged buff, good Lore effect, and some nice spammable ranged damage but they never seem to dish out the damage Katarin can. Maybe they cost a tiny bit too much for what you get in general but I like the lore a lot. Excited to see what Hags bring. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Oct 15, 2022 |
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Oct 15, 2022 08:13
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Ravenfood posted:She can still get Undivided WoC at least, including Aspiring Champions. Even base Chaos Warriors should be able to bog him down long enough to let you rout his army if you have already marked all your existing warriors. Heart of Winter goes from kind of mid to amazing if you can get some solid Spell Mastery going. I'm not sure how many options there are for that unmodded, but I messed with Kislev once with a mod that gives you access to all factions item drops and I managed to stack her to around 60-100% iirc and it went from "this is useful under these circumstances" to "my entire strategy is now luring the enemy into these circumstances and laughing while they melt"
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Oct 15, 2022 08:34
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TaintedBalance posted:Heart of Winter goes from kind of mid to amazing if you can get some solid Spell Mastery going. I'm not sure how many options there are for that unmodded, but I messed with Kislev once with a mod that gives you access to all factions item drops and I managed to stack her to around 60-100% iirc and it went from "this is useful under these circumstances" to "my entire strategy is now luring the enemy into these circumstances and laughing while they melt" There are none unmodded that I am aware of, which is a shame. Her main weakness is that she doesn't seem that much better than a generic Ice Witch in terms of casting. Her loremaster of ice skill gives a cooldown reduction and some wind decreases, but they are minor decreases on her expensive spells (and ice is expensive) and you generally can't spam them anyway because of the high wind cost. Ice Sheet excepted, which she gets down to 1 wind and a low cooldown. Compared to Gelt who absolutely shits out damage in the way a regular metal mage couldn't (if Empire got them), she just doesn't feel like a hugely powerful caster. Her other effects like the item-based ward save while casting mostly just make her better in melee, which to be fair she is better than an Ice Witch in. I know one mod gives her a custom spell tree based on combining the two lores, but I think I would rather see other ways to make her just a bit better than the other Ice Witches like greater arcane conduit or a spell mastery buff on an item.
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Oct 15, 2022 08:54
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Ravenfood posted:...I think I would rather see other ways to make her just a bit better than the other Ice Witches like greater arcane conduit or a spell mastery buff on an item. Every caster main LL should get Greater Arcane Conduit, it straight up feels like a QA miss at this point when they are missing it. If I were to mod LL trees myself, I'd spread more Spell Mastery around caster lords in general, in particular for the ones who are supposed to be The Casters. Mazzy, Teclis, etc., should be DISGUSTING casters. I think its the final piece of the way they've been trying to rework spells so they weren't so consistently OP as before. The X Lore Mastery ones are a good spot for this as well, although more caster lords probably need it. IIRC, its basically only vamps?
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Oct 15, 2022 09:06
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TaintedBalance posted:Every caster main LL should get Greater Arcane Conduit, it straight up feels like a QA miss at this point when they are missing it. If I were to mod LL trees myself, I'd spread more Spell Mastery around caster lords in general, in particular for the ones who are supposed to be The Casters. Mazzy, Teclis, etc., should be DISGUSTING casters. I think its the final piece of the way they've been trying to rework spells so they weren't so consistently OP as before. The X Lore Mastery ones are a good spot for this as well, although more caster lords probably need it. IIRC, its basically only vamps? The people with Lore Mastery that I know of are Gelt, some Vamps, and Katarin. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but Gelt and the Vamps seems much more impactful than Katarin's ice mastery. It might be that a flat reduction to wind cost and a cooldown reduction matter a lot more when your prime value comes from a cheap as gently caress bombardment or heal (or one of the best Wind spells in the game) as opposed to a very pricy AoE direct damage spell and an already dirt cheap aoe slow that loses effectiveness once the lines meet. Teclis is a pretty insane caster already, as is Gelt. Mazdamundi seems weaker than he probably should be though. And yeah, sources of Spell Mastery seem rarer than they need to be. Greater Arcane Conduit for +10%, the stacking Cathay bonus, Tzeentch warshrine, Vilitch's passive, and some items that also seem really rare. In WH2 they used extra lore passives for casters they wanted to make more powerful, which is certainly a not flashy but effective way to so it.
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Oct 15, 2022 09:17
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people love the dlc that remove all difficulty from the game
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Oct 15, 2022 10:06
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People love the DLCs that give them exciting, powerful options that facilitate playing single player the game in goofier ways. Those philistines, those clowns, those utter fools.
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Oct 15, 2022 11:22
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Jay Rust posted:I feel the total warhammer itch If you've been following TW for a while you know that generally if the devs set their mind to something they will make it worse in oddly specific ways So yeah the big complaint for WH2 was too many seige battles and ofc it's a TW so it has bad pathfinding So in WH3 they made every single settlement into a seige battle and made it a tower defence where you have to path around settlements to stand on an arbitrary point to stop being shot by infinity arrows The only innovation to the already existing seiges is now there are towers inside the walls too
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Oct 15, 2022 11:45
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So I'm playing Ogres and just using them the same way I'd use knights It works surprisingly well!
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Oct 15, 2022 11:58
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 11:02 |
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About sieges, there is a bigger patch coming on Tuesday (unless it's been delayed) and one of the things it will address is the amount of minor siege battles.
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Oct 15, 2022 12:14
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