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Valkyrie Profile (both Lenneth and Silmeria) have excellent dungeons
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Oct 17, 2022 19:48
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BurningBeard posted:So my partner has never been a gamer, but she’s taken an interest in them since we’ve been together. I’ve been trying to throw a random mix of stuff at the wall, keyed to her general interests, in an effort to find things that stick. That depends a *lot* on what you look for in a dungeon. Lots of puzzles and traps? Interesting locals? Something designed to be finished in a single go or ssomething that goes for multiple runs. I like Wild Arms dungeons and Etrian Odyssey dungeons and Valkyrie Profile dungeons for example but each is a very disinctly different flavor. Would Persona 5's palaces work for example?
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Oct 17, 2022 20:00
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Junpei posted:Actually, that's a fun question to ask: Do you like a pure turn-based system (no ATBs or what have you) to be round-based, where you input everyone's actions in a row and then everyone goes based on speed, or character-based, where fast people go more often/before slow people, ala FFX? I generally prefer either initiative based (characters act in order depending on speed of the character or action but only go once per round regardless) or phase based (all characters on one side act in a row and then the other side acts) over more speed = more actions. As for whether you select all your team's actions at once or one at a time for initiative based systems, I think both are fine. Acting one at a time is easier to understand and doesn't require you to plan ahead as much for things and allows you to be more reactive than proactive for things like healing while selecting all your actions before hand allows additional mechanics like actions having variable speed.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:11
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I’m two hours into SMTV so far. initial thoughts: - battle is good, negotiation is fine, press turn solid as always - essence system is handy, glory system is a nice way to stack up elements/resists quickly - what on earth is with the music in this game?? it’s so weird lol - UI a lil busy in combat for me personally. UI transitions oddly choppy, maybe intentionally? just doesn’t feel super slick - is the resolution sub-480p? goodness! at least framerate is mostly around 30 - it’s been a while since I played Nocturne or 4 but were demon starting HPs and HP gains always this meager at the start? I guess they must have been but boy it’s not super exciting when a demon levels up and gets an entire 4 extra HP. what is this, fifth edition!!!!! I stopped at the mermaid fight but will come back to it e: ok it seems like the HP values are more in line with Nocturne than with 4, that's what felt a bit off The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 20:23
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BurningBeard posted:We gave P5R a shot, since I’ve not finished it. I thought maybe the heavier emphasis on relationships would draw her in. Are you sure you’re looking for RPGs? The strengths of Persona 5’s dungeoneering are excellent gamefeel and cool locales. Unfortunately, “feeling really good to play” is pretty rare in the genre, which is why I noticed it so much in P5. I’m sure you’ve already thought of this if you have a Switch, but she might enjoy the big Nintendo exploration games on the console like Zelda, Mario and Kirby.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:23
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nrook posted:Unfortunately, “feeling really good to play” is pretty rare in the genre, which is why I noticed it so much in P5. This is one of the main reasons I have such a positive opinion on P5. There's a ton to complain about in the writing--the plot, the characters, the pacing, the muddled themes--but when I'm playing it I can forgive a lot because it's so rare to have an RPG that feels that good to play moment to moment.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:26
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Hyper Inferno posted:I've been swapping between 2D and 3D mode in DQXI S with hard monsters on and it's extremely noticeable how much of an advantage 3D mode's action selection is when you don't have AI control. The variance is the most annoying part of round based combat (at least in DQ's speed system) where while it's somewhat predictable the general order each party member/enemy will go in there will be occasions where things will go out of order which can be devastating if you were relying on healing in between monster attacks. in metal max 3, i gave my dog a mutant claw with +99 speed and he still sometimes goes last, I've given up trying to predict the action order
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Oct 17, 2022 20:27
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BurningBeard posted:But what happened was that she loves the palaces. So that got me thinking. cheetah7071 posted:Valkyrie Profile (both Lenneth and Silmeria) have excellent dungeons Yeah, I'll second either of these two in regards to dungeon crawling- they're both heavily focused on unique dungeons, Lenneth very much so. Silmeria has an unusual combat system that leans away from turn battles into this pseudo RTS thing while also kind of still being turn based, but Lenneth is strictly in turns, but you kinda just mash the attacks out. VP combat is kinda hard to explain. Lenneth is supposed to be coming out on modern systems soon at least, Silmeria is still forever left languishing on the PS2. Some of the Atelier games might be worth a look, as while their dungeons may not be as lined with puzzles as other JRPGs, they do feature some fantastic locales and some good exploration. My personal recommendation is always Ayesha, but the Dusk Trilogy delivers pretty well on the whole. Firis from the Mysterious Trilogy isn't bad for an open world edge to it. They're all completely traditional turn based combat as well, and all on Switch/PS4.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:28
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BurningBeard posted:So my partner has never been a gamer, but she’s taken an interest in them since we’ve been together. I’ve been trying to throw a random mix of stuff at the wall, keyed to her general interests, in an effort to find things that stick. On turn based rpgs with good dumgeons Chronotrigger is on Steam. Earthbound might also work. Also FF9. Not rpgs, but Tunic and the classic Zeldas on Switch. Tunic you can turn off the combat and the Zeldas have fairly easy/simple combat. They all have really fun dungeons. The best modern dungeons are in the Fromsoft Souls and related games I reckon. Kind of a non starter if real time combat stresses her out though. Nobody's even really competitive with Fromsoft when it comes to exploration and rewarding it. A Sometimes Food fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 20:28
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BurningBeard posted:So my partner has never been a gamer, but she’s taken an interest in them since we’ve been together. I’ve been trying to throw a random mix of stuff at the wall, keyed to her general interests, in an effort to find things that stick. Lufia 2 has always been my go-to for interesting dungeons. There's a lot of puzzles but more importantly, the variety with the types of puzzles is so huge that it stays fresh throughout.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:38
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if she thinks dq's writing is dull i wouldn't force her through it. dq at its most exciting is still not gonna win over someone who doesn't love dq writing it's kind of a basic rec but if she likes exploration in general you could try breath of the wild, real-time combat but there's plenty of ways to break the combat that should make it more fun for a newcomer. or shadow of the colossus, that game isn't quite difficult or reliant on tight reactions and timing and every boss fight is basically just a puzzle, she might enjoy wandering the world in that. wild arms 3 is the best turn-based rpg i can think of available on ps4 in terms of exploration, dunno how she'll feel about the combat but the combat itself is at least more interesting and breakable than dq's and outside of the dungeons themselves it's a game full of little secrets and easter eggs to find.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:47
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yeah tbh it's possible that the answer is just not an RPG at all. Zelda is pretty cool and full of dungeons, and generally shouldn't be a problem even for a beginner to action controls
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Oct 17, 2022 20:48
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Live A Live. The positioning-based combat will be more interesting than the average menu in a way that won't take a long time to become evident, and it's short and varied. For an RPG with a more immediately gripping gameplay concept than Final Fantasy 10, but still a more cinematic presentation, you may consider action hybrids like FF7 Remake or Mass Effect, or strategy hybrids like Fire Emblem or Triangle Strategy.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:49
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Finished the main story of Crosscode and now on the DLC final dungeon. If you like dungeons with puzzles it might be for you, although some make you feel like a total idiot and some make you feel like a genius.
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Oct 17, 2022 20:51
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I’m waiting somewhat impatiently for Tactics Ogre: Reborn. I got all achievements earlier this year for Fell Seal: Arbiter’s Mark, which is the closest to Tactics Ogre/Final Fantasy Tactics I’ve come across in years, and it gets a nod of approval from me for anyone looking for a FFT would-be in the lead up to TO:R. The DLC expansion for Fell Seal allows for monsters to have different variants/classes as well, with a main and sub-job like human units can have which really sat well with me when I played through. I’m hesitant to get deep into a honest attempt to beat FFT—my last one on original hardware got lost in early chapter 4 due to memory card issues—or even to hook up my Vita TV for Let Us Cling Together or Jeanne d’Arc with the aforementioned TO:R being under a month away. I intend to put a large number of hours into Reborn given my relative lack of disposable income for gaming, and I don’t want to burn myself out on the genre knowing how much content is coming in four weeks in a single game. In non-SRPG news, I’m slightly disappointed in Valkyrie Elysium, as it’s not nearly as RPG as I’d have hoped given the other three games in the series. Personal opinion, it feels like the writing isn’t as decent in this as in Lenneth/Silmeria, or even Covenant of the Plume (though that could be debated). Maybe I should give the second Voice of Cards game a go; if it’s similar to the first one that will be a nice filler before I lose far too much time to Denam and the Walister struggles.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:15
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The 7th Guest posted:I’m two hours into SMTV so far. initial thoughts: SMTV's soundtrack is the first game since, I dunno, FF6 as a kid that I would just let sit so I could listen to it. It's a shoegazey RPG soundtrack, I don't know of anything quite like it out there. Incredible stuff though definitely not for everyone.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:18
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TheIndividual posted:SMTV's soundtrack is the first game since, I dunno, FF6 as a kid that I would just let sit so I could listen to it. It's a shoegazey RPG soundtrack, I don't know of anything quite like it out there. Incredible stuff though definitely not for everyone. Well that sounds radical honestly
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Oct 17, 2022 21:27
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Thanks goons. I actually showed her BotW thinking that it would appeal based on its ease of control and the exploration emphasis, but she kinda scoffed at the idea of it as a whole. She literally said, “So what, am I just picking flowers or something?” big old eh in that department. I think I emphasized dungeons because they’re tightly constrained and have a clear endpoint, with lots of side paths and stuff, plus the puzzles and the spacial awareness element. I snagged FE: Three Houses because though she didn’t dig on the life sim stuff in Persona, I’d speculate that’s got more to do with poo poo writing than the relationship emphasis itself. But that’s a huge game so it’s chilling on the back burner. I forgot to mention that she loving loves Yakuza LAD, btw. We’ve yet to finish it, but I noticed she really loves exploring the city and finding all the safes/briefcases and so on. Wild Arms 3 would be new to me, only remember playing the first one way back when. So that’ll go on the wishlist. Had already planned to buy the VP1 rerelease, so that’s exciting. I never played it when it was new. Silmeria was dope, thanks for the reminder. I def don’t intend to push DQ, but I do think it’ll hit given some time. It really does have a glacial start. Unrelated to all this, but it’s really loving cool to play games with an adult who’s not steeped in gaming conventions. Really makes you look at stuff in a new light.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:33
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BurningBeard posted:I forgot to mention that she loving loves Yakuza LAD, btw. We’ve yet to finish it, but I noticed she really loves exploring the city and finding all the safes/briefcases and so on.
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Oct 17, 2022 21:36
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BurningBeard posted:Wild Arms 3 would be new to me, only remember playing the first one way back when. So that’ll go on the wishlist. it's a very good game, if you like anything about wild arms 1's weird science fantasy western setting, smaller more close-knit party or puzzle and exploration mechanics, 3's basically just a much more developed version of all that stuff. also has a much better translation so the writing is pretty fun. and it's got a pretty nifty system for evading random encounters that encourages exploration in order to upgrade your capabilities for avoiding them, since the upgrades for it are found in different corners of towns and stuff
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Oct 17, 2022 21:44
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Nyoro posted:Well that sounds radical honestly I was 100% sold on the game just based on the soundtrack in this trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaM1zXLvUJY I think this was the song where I just let it sit for a while when I first got to this area https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZ8cGSZyDk TheIndividual fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Oct 17, 2022 |
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Oct 17, 2022 22:08
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Is there a shin megami tensei mystery dungeon game?
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Oct 17, 2022 22:12
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FirstAidKite posted:Is there a shin megami tensei mystery dungeon game? Not to my knowledge, but there is a traditional roguelike based on SMT that I seem to remember? Not sure of the name though. This would be a rad idea for Chunsoft to do though. I think it would work best as a blend of Persona and SMT. Party management in grid-based traditional roguelikes is kind of a drag, but if your character swapped through demon forms on the fly, that could kick rear end.
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Oct 17, 2022 22:17
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BurningBeard posted:Not to my knowledge, but there is a traditional roguelike based on SMT that I seem to remember? Not sure of the name though. you are thinking of demon, its good
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Oct 17, 2022 22:30
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sometimes fan translators 100% nail the mood of a scene perfectly
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Oct 17, 2022 22:37
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Junpei posted:Actually, that's a fun question to ask: Do you like a pure turn-based system (no ATBs or what have you) to be round-based, where you input everyone's actions in a row and then everyone goes based on speed, or character-based, where fast people go more often/before slow people, ala FFX? I prefer Character-based, just because row-based sometimes just gets you eating poo poo with no means to quickly counter it as the turn plays out. Also it can be frustrating in systems that set up combos (or you're at least hoping fire in a certain order) just to have one of them arbitrarily go earlier/later in the order for seemingly no reason that turn.
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Oct 18, 2022 02:17
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Junpei posted:Actually, that's a fun question to ask: Do you like a pure turn-based system (no ATBs or what have you) to be round-based, where you input everyone's actions in a row and then everyone goes based on speed, or character-based, where fast people go more often/before slow people, ala FFX? I like both equally as long as long as the simultaneous turn implementation has some way of knowing what enemies are (roughly) going to do and you can arrange your turns accordingly, as I find the DQ style of doing things too random to find much depth in. Something like Scarlet Grace does this well, although it's not the only way of doing it.
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Oct 18, 2022 02:21
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I prefer Character-based, just because row-based sometimes just gets you eating poo poo with no means to quickly counter it as the turn plays out. Also it can be frustrating in systems that set up combos (or you're at least hoping fire in a certain order) just to have one of them arbitrarily go earlier/later in the order for seemingly no reason that turn. To be honest, it's weird to me that so many games with speed-based turn order even have a random factor involved. Like, I get that it's a relic from when they were copying D&D (which had the infamous "roll for initiative"), but I'm really not sure how it got this far with no one else stopping to reexamine that choice. What exactly does it add to your game that it's worth the time to program in, as opposed to using a strict speed order?
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Oct 18, 2022 02:48
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Endorph posted:Shoutout to the 360 version of vesperis where the party doesnt have a healer for like 10 hours and you have to get by with ravens gimmick spell that only hits girls.and Nice Aid Smash raven and the kid (karol) are unironically better healers than estelle though.
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Oct 18, 2022 02:57
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Clarste posted:To be honest, it's weird to me that so many games with speed-based turn order even have a random factor involved. Like, I get that it's a relic from when they were copying D&D (which had the infamous "roll for initiative"), but I'm really not sure how it got this far with no one else stopping to reexamine that choice. What exactly does it add to your game that it's worth the time to program in, as opposed to using a strict speed order? Makes the difference between speed 99 and speed 100 more meaningful than the difference between speed 1 and speed 100
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Oct 18, 2022 02:58
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I generally like both kinds of turn-based styles, but one of the things I didn't like about Bravely Default 2 was the switch to character-based turns because I found it made it harder to plan out my rounds that way. That's normally not the case but with how the brave/default system worked, it made it easier to plan out a whole round at once, or at least it did for me.
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Oct 18, 2022 02:58
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Endorph posted:Shoutout to the 360 version of vesperis where the party doesnt have a healer for like 10 hours and you have to get by with ravens gimmick spell that only hits girls.and Nice Aid Smash Unironically this, Nice Aid Smash was comedy gold and I thought it was hilarious that it was my main source of healing for a surprisingly long period of gameplay
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Oct 18, 2022 03:21
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Clarste posted:To be honest, it's weird to me that so many games with speed-based turn order even have a random factor involved. Like, I get that it's a relic from when they were copying D&D (which had the infamous "roll for initiative"), but I'm really not sure how it got this far with no one else stopping to reexamine that choice. What exactly does it add to your game that it's worth the time to program in, as opposed to using a strict speed order? It can also make things not entirely 100% predictable. Avoiding having players notice patterns and being absolutely sure of something can be something devs want to do.
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Oct 18, 2022 04:14
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Clarste posted:To be honest, it's weird to me that so many games with speed-based turn order even have a random factor involved. Like, I get that it's a relic from when they were copying D&D (which had the infamous "roll for initiative"), but I'm really not sure how it got this far with no one else stopping to reexamine that choice. What exactly does it add to your game that it's worth the time to program in, as opposed to using a strict speed order?
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Oct 18, 2022 05:15
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I suppose, but I also think that complete non-randomness open up a lot of design space for cutting things very close, like the player intentionally taking a hit that will leave them at 2 HP because they know that's going to happen. Like, it lets you plan ahead and I think that's fun? As opposed to repeatedly doing the exact same thing which has the best odds of success, even if it sometimes fails.
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Oct 18, 2022 05:19
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i can't say many dungeons have stuck with me, but what are her opinions on old rear end dungeon crawlers and rpgs? i was gonna rec like, old megaten or persona or like etrian odyssey but it seems like an Acquired Taste
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Oct 18, 2022 05:43
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Booky posted:i can't say many dungeons have stuck with me, but what are her opinions on old rear end dungeon crawlers and rpgs? i was gonna rec like, old megaten or persona or like etrian odyssey but it seems like an Acquired Taste On a lark, I tried out dungeon encounters with her, and that went over like spoiled milk. I’m not really surprised, it’s kind of one very extreme end of the RPG spectrum. Thought about showing her SMT nocturne, but other than that, can’t really say. She’s new to all of this.
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Oct 18, 2022 05:47
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cheetah7071 posted:I had the almost exact opposite reaction lol. It felt really real to me because, the story was continuously about the grinding misery of being on the bottom. The revolution succeeding would have been a betrayal of what it was trying to say, imo. Letting you get your hopes up along with the heroes only to have them crushed as they always are is what made it so powerful I just finished off The Final Loop and now I have more thoughts on all that. That worked infinitely better as a midgame fake out bad end than a proper ending. I wasn't aware that Vellsar was a continuation of Rivayle until I actually started it. Vellsar part 1 was pretty good with the only one I didn't really like being Kagero, I thought he was kind of dull. Drache is kind of a brat but at least he did things, I liked Sekka a lot and I found Aluzard's bit fascinating, I'd almost put it on par with Baron/Bunny's chapter. Vellsar part 2 feels like it might spent a bit too much time on convincing Aluzard to come around. Overall, I liked Vellsar stand alone fine although it's hard to really judge it in isolation considering that Vellsar part 2 directly leads into the crossover chapter. I liked the Final Loop a lot because it had very fix fic vibes for the lack of a better term? Someone taking a downer of a story and shoving in new characters to fix everything up. But I'd really been wanting them to succeed in Rivayle so I'm absolutely willing to indulge in things here. Kagero showing up and immediately kicking the poo poo out of Zecil was extremely cathartic because dear god, that jackass didn't stop gloating and being a pest during Rivayle part 2. I think it might've dragged on a bit too long overall but there were a lot of beats to hit so I'm not sure how you could cut or restructure things to speed things up without losing something. The Nexus stuff was well, kind of eh? I've completely forgotten most of her deal since I did that story back in like 2018 and I wasn't willing to go back and replay those chapters. I wasn't expecting Nexus to straight up die here though nor was I expecting a random anime scene in the middle of things. Gameplay wise, I was pretty impressed. They've kept up the gimmick duels from the forest arc and some of those go hard like the final Icey duel. I was extremely glad that the Turn 8 Storm with both titan cards let me OTK him, the random leader effects that never get explained were pretty annoying and I was pretty sure that Icey had a gimmick where he deal damage taken back to you? I got stuck on two Zecil duels for a bit which might make me a bit more annoyed at him. I just got back into the game so aside from Shadow (abusing Hydra) and Blood (got enough Wrath cards to pretend it was a Wrath deck) I was running a lot of really lovely decks. anyway, it was pretty good and I'll check the Inn chapters when I get a chance but jesus, they better not pull some cliffhanger bullshit like that again
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Oct 18, 2022 14:47
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bahh Hydra wasn't that hard .. they said, playing on normal, because they weren't paying attention when they chose difficulty at new game and didn't realize you can't change difficulty to hard later
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Oct 18, 2022 18:16
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BurningBeard posted:
Fun dungeons are a staggering rarity in the genre. Part of why P5 stands out is that the good ones really don't feel like RPG dungeons, but like really simplified stealth action game. Even compared to RPGs that I feel like have good dungeon design like the Mario and Luigi games or Valkyrie Profile are further removed from P5 then say Sly 2 or something. I guess what I'm sayin' is that it's a shame the Sly Cooper games never got a release on PS4 because that'd absolutely be my recommendations going forward if you really like the palace exploration in P5.
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Oct 18, 2022 18:51
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