|
WH space is consistently the best day-to-day experience playing EVE...because CCP made a Good Thing and has largely left it the gently caress alone over the past decade.
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 19:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 03:00 |
|
|
40 lbs to freedom posted:i played in the (imo) goon golden age of 2009 and the super serious cfc nullsec warfest goldenage of 2014 and am subbed right now and i enjoy the game now more than i ever did before. i play for a few hours not quite every day almost all of it is pvp. i can tell you that in 2009 when i started playing everyone was saying how boring and stupid the game was compared to 2006. in 2010 everyone said how dumb and stupid the game was compared to 2009. in 2014 everyone said how dumb and stupid the game was compared to 2010. etc. in 2022 everyone is saying how dumb and stupid the game is comapred to 2020. or 2016. or whatever. no one on the internet ever knows how to appreciate the present. i dont know how that depressed wall of text from goons who pretend they dont read reddit affects me if it does but its true player count is going down and its probably naive to think itll ever go back to what it aws in 2012. world of warcraft has a ton of players and that game is terrible and sucks. eve has been around a long time and the internet is very bitter there will always be people saying everything is ruined, nothing is good and the game is dead. it isnt. i think anyone who wants to rejoin the game or play for the first time absolutely should. theres dumber things to spend $20 on. Agreedo Game still fun, go lose some spaceships
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
dragonshardz posted:WH space is consistently the best day-to-day experience playing EVE...because CCP made a Good Thing and has largely left it the gently caress alone over the past decade. Yeah, wormholes are arguably the best space in the game atm. Whilst they are suffering greatly from the lack of players (they're very quiet) the best part about them is that you can always just dip into other parts of space. Arguably my best times in jspace were not in jspace. The time we killed a triple ancil vargur with only t1 cruisers was great, or when i decided to roam in providence and then killed an afk hulk (I didn't expect to see anyone, let alone kill something, even if they were afk and very squishy) or maybe even the time I found a porpoise in lowsec and after watching him for a bit in a stealth bomber I realised I could actually just kill him, after I had gotten into brutixes he had just... docked up. I ended up just chatting with him for about half an hour before he got off at downtime. Jspace good, though I don't really think it's the life for me
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 21:53
|
|
|
floppyspud posted:Yeah, wormholes are arguably the best space in the game atm. Whilst they are suffering greatly from the lack of players (they're very quiet) the best part about them is that you can always just dip into other parts of space. The big positive of w-space is that if you get a connection to somewhere boring, you can just...close it and see how the new one is. It's always been relatively quiet, especially since the "glory days" of the LZ/HK rental empire. Advances in ship tech like Kikimora means you can grab a few pals and run some Wolf-Rayet sites if the opportunity presents, or if you have a good nullsec connection you can go raid ESSes until someone shows up to stop you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 22:44
|
|
|
Or you can ping out "kitchen sink shitstack death roam" and get chased all the way across Querious by the world's worst interceptor in a fleet comp where no two people are flying the same ship.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 22:49
|
|
|
Kazinsal posted:Or you can ping out "kitchen sink shitstack death roam" and get chased all the way across Querious by the world's worst interceptor in a fleet comp where no two people are flying the same ship. Don't forget ISK-positive because you happened to pop a 1.2b pod that was in a pacifier with the wrong implants 
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 22:51
|
|
|
Kazinsal posted:Or you can ping out "kitchen sink shitstack death roam" and get chased all the way across Querious by the world's worst interceptor in a fleet comp where no two people are flying the same ship. Kitchen sink is one of my favourite things, killing a tengu with a vedmak, brutix, rapier, sabre, astero, confessor, and nemesis fleet comp is very fun.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 23:58
|
|
|
best part of kitchen sink is the obvious few seconds of decision paralysis as the opponent tries to figure out what the hell needs to be prioritized
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 00:06
|
|
|
At one point CCP blamed the price hike on the Russian sanctions, but they seem to have gone quiet about it. This means that in addition to Eve losing a lot of money and players, that Russians have to outbid everyone else on plex now. One way or another, a month of plex seems to have settled at around 2.3 billion, and since most solo activities seem to generate around 60 to 100 million an hour, it's a poor outlook for anyone hoping to plex these days.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 00:20
|
|
|
Hobologist posted:At one point CCP blamed the price hike on the Russian sanctions, but they seem to have gone quiet about it. This means that in addition to Eve losing a lot of money and players, that Russians have to outbid everyone else on plex now. One way or another, a month of plex seems to have settled at around 2.3 billion, and since most solo activities seem to generate around 60 to 100 million an hour, it's a poor outlook for anyone hoping to plex these days. Yup, it's screwed, especially for new people. I really can't understand the sub increase... it's literally the worst thing they could've done. they haven't release content in about 2 years and have been loving people over left and right, and suddenly they increase the sub, meaning less people playing and LESS MONEY FOR THEM, i guarantee they are making far less now than before the price hike because so many people have quit and unsubbed accounts. hell, even poor old me is giving them less money since the price increase cus I cancelled the second account.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 00:32
|
|
|
Hobologist posted:At one point CCP blamed the price hike on the Russian sanctions, but they seem to have gone quiet about it. This means that in addition to Eve losing a lot of money and players, that Russians have to outbid everyone else on plex now. One way or another, a month of plex seems to have settled at around 2.3 billion, and since most solo activities seem to generate around 60 to 100 million an hour, it's a poor outlook for anyone hoping to plex these days. This is not really sustainable either because we've been watching Russian corps roll up their nullsec/wormhole deployments for isk and in some cases seemingly relocate to empire space. When you need isk so bad throwing away structure rigs to sell the quantum cores is a viable means to that end, poo poo's bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 01:21
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure at this point the game economy is ultimately being sustained by hardcore neverquit addicts, botters, and stolen credit cards being used to fraudulently purchase plex, the rest of the economy is basically a rounding error isk velocity has dropped so low that there's functionally no market when it comes to most things: nobody buys enough of it, it builds up, doesn't sell, then it sits the people who were providing it either quit entirely, or moved into one of the few markets with any rapid turnover, mainly commonly used rigs and the salvage used for them, popular hulls, plex, lsi, hypercores. it's not even worth listing a lot of stuff because between fees and order slots, if you have a sizeable (5%+) amount of a market to yourself, unless it's one of the few high turnover markets? your orders are gonna expire before they sell. the margins will not be worth the investment. it's equally not worth putting up buy orders for most stuff, because you eirher won't move it, or there's no supply to fill them, there's way more static-surplus supply than demand for everything that's not in constantly high demand, so there's no reason to enter most markets as a supplier or through arbitrage, because nothing moves, so: nothing. moves. then, everyone goes to the high demand things which are only high demand because their supply is increasingly bottlenecked by cash-injection or player activity, both of which are dwindling - these markets are not increasing in overall share because true demand is increasing in any way. This means the isk wealthy players can invest into a near-monopoly in these areas and force out competition by simply buying up more of that supply, manipulating the market to generate a profit, and using that profit to grow their monopoly, and increase their ability to manipulate the market further, to generate larger profits. so for the lowest supply commodities (plex, lsi, high-demand rigs, etc) most of their market demand is being artificially inflated by outright manipulation from people perpetually dominating a dwindling supply, one which only realistically be reinvested into those same few things. there's a teenytiny percentage of people sitting on enormous dragon's hoards of wealth and increasing income that can't really go into anything else, just siphoning out surplus value from everything that is moving around in an endless feedback loop. the games' isk faucets are not keeping up with how much of what's going around is being swallowed up by these few active mega-traders pulling in trillis a month. overall isk-velocity & individual player market share drops, prices & relative market share for plex and lsi continue to rise. everything else shrinks. The players who aren't hyperspacerich are pidgeonholed into doing one of the few activities that'll generate a profit to be worth the time invested, or they're economically irrelevant - they do not consume much, nor contribute, and their total economic impact is simply microscopic* many of these activities are instanced or limited in scalability, reducing player interaction and the need for a lot of other commodities related to that even more, further harming the market the larger a percentage of total marker vol. they inhabit (or moreso, the less alternatives to them exist as comparable income sources) I'm pretty sure a per-item isk-volume chart of the top 100 market commodities from 2-3 years ago compared to today would show marked decline (40-60%) in the top ten, and then complete economic death (70-100%) once you got past the top 30 or so: this game has so many things that are just gone and can't return without having a healthy and active playerbase the market's dropped well below critical mass to be self sustaining at this point, it's mainly robberbarons and rounding-errors at the same time wormholes are largely unaffected by all this, since they don't have the same open-market trading as empire and the big blocs do, and their income comes largely from direct isk injection via blueloot sales & high-demand gases for production of profitable hulls, so isk circulation doesn't affect them nearly as much as other areas of the game economy this is also why incursions and abyssals are the only other real income sources that are viable: the income from them doesn't have to come from other players and remains independent from any demand endstage capitalism simulator ccp hosed up (*if you're moving under I'd say, 50bn total through the economy a month in some way (including subsidized ships/activity + stuff destroyed)? you are here. This is the startup-industrialists, mission-runners, 0.0 PvE'ers, small-scale/frequency pvp players, exploration. huge chunks of the game, not able to have a meaningful impact or increase their share of activity in a way that scales at all, it just caps out. low. my guess is probably about 80% of the playerbase, conservatively, is generating no meaningful economic activity, because the income sources are so skewed and the scalability of different activities are busted. there's tons of roles that used to be high-activity that are currently extinct so there's a much less evenly distributed economic strata in the game for most players to interact with in a meaningful way. without altering their behavior to fit the systems of income that reward you disproportionately to all the rest, this group of people isn't able to participate in the market at all in any meaningful way. there's not a smooth gradient of activities in-between the areas to sustain a connection to one-another, so they function in relative isolation: you are either making jack poo poo in income, or growing rapidly in wealth through an increasingly small set of options. because the economy is broken and in a runaway die-off bubble of increasing prices due to reduced plex purchase and player count. a growing percentage of isk is going to a smaller percentage of the playerbase. while a reduced total volume of wealth is being exchanged over a smaller area of the overall market. while the playerbase also shrinks. it's no longer able to sustain even baseline levels of activity in many sections. When a section of the market stops being active, a section of the game has stopped being active. these areas all affect one-another. when people stop mining & PVEing in a region, people stop roaming it, fleets to defend against that aren't formed, things aren't destroyed and things aren't needed to be built or imported, etc. and then less people log in, plex goes up more, less people resub, less activity to draw people back, and so on. There's nothing in place to stop or reverse this dynamic currently.) edit: added a bit to expand on what im seeing happen FirstnameLastname fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Oct 20, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 02:29
|
|
|
tfw your model of hypercapitalism is too accurate and you get to watch your own game prophesize global economic catastrophe in a dying world ... no wonder they're living in denial
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 02:53
|
|
|
I'm just saying, they had better have some good poo poo in the next updates ie. Making nullsec great again. People will say that "oh nullbear krabs are at it again, they just want their iskies" but I don't care, ruining nullsec is what started the death spiral, and fixing it is the only thing that can save it, though I'm questioning whether that's possible by now...
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 03:09
|
|
|
It doesn't make any sense for there to be scarcity in space. They have colonized like 0.00001% of the galaxy. Just open some new star gates.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 03:15
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:It doesn't make any sense for there to be scarcity in space. They have colonized like 0.00001% of the galaxy. Just open some new star gates. Games already empty enough... no new systems please.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 03:35
|
|
|
floppyspud posted:Games already empty enough... no new systems please. he's talking about the lore; it makes no sense for things to randomly disappear and for stuff to get hacksaw'd like ccp does
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 11:25
|
|
|
floppyspud posted:Games already empty enough... no new systems please. psilocybin laden posted:he's talking about the lore; it makes no sense for things to randomly disappear and for stuff to get hacksaw'd like ccp does Yeah I don't think EVE the game would work better with more empty useless systems. I just mean in the EVE lore they are supposed to be just beginning to colonize the New Eden, there is tons of space and resources left. Though I think it would be cool to play an EVE style game in a "true" galaxy, like in Elite Dangerous. A galaxy so large where you could actually hide and build an empire in secret.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 11:50
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:Yeah I don't think EVE the game would work better with more empty useless systems. I just mean in the EVE lore they are supposed to be just beginning to colonize the New Eden, there is tons of space and resources left. You could do that in WH space, burst out huge fleets into k-space through holes and whatnot
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 12:08
|
|
|
https://zkillboard.com/kill/103975479/ for anyone that wants to have a giggle at the expense of dunkarys also i am getting the itch to play spaceships, is this what the youth these days refer to as "down bad"
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 13:27
|
|
|
floppyspud posted:CCP is making GBS threads the bed, player count is down, economy slowing down past the point of no return, nullsec was ruined over 2 years ago and little has been done to fix it, wormholes are empty due to low player pop and old because of lack of attention from devs, lowsec is controlled entirely by about 3 alliances thay dreadbomb any form of content instantly and stop smaller groups from operating, botting is still a problem, rmt is still a problem, they aren't listening to the csm, they promise loads but deliver nothing, no new content since 2020, but we still for some reason love the game. Good Summary Techno fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Oct 20, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 13:55
|
|
|
And it's all delta sqad's fault
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 14:05
|
|
|
floppyspud posted:Games already empty enough... no new systems please. I’m still (I think?) new enough to be in a state of wonder with parts of the game, but all I know is I could of afk autopiloted from 1DQ to Jita the other night and my only possible danger imaybe would have come from Triglavians near gates in two systems. For like 12 systems in the middle I was the only one in local. Out of a >20 jump trip. And two of those systems the other folks were blue to me. On a Tuesday night around midnight CST US. All my practice in a cloak/mwd hauler wasn’t needed. That  economics post was good, and valuable/informative even as one of those in the “rounding error” group of economic-impactful players. I am still enjoying myself with new-to-me PvE + fleet ops, but more players would be nice. I’m not even a big PvP player in most games, but the biggest thrill I was prepared to face some consequences for (flying into Jita as a nullsec Goon) ended in a disappointment as far as getting hyped to make the trip and face the music of the attempt itself.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 14:20
|
|
|
They put a lot of the spooky event stuff in NPC Delve so I would expect that to change
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 14:22
|
|
|
Dalmuti posted:And it's all delta sqad's fault Some guy Falcon started it I heard
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 14:34
|
|
|
Rust Martialis posted:Some guy Falcon started it I heard A blue falcon?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 14:50
|
|
|
Rutibex posted:Yeah I don't think EVE the game would work better with more empty useless systems. I just mean in the EVE lore they are supposed to be just beginning to colonize the New Eden, there is tons of space and resources left. IMO they should reverse the whole structure and have the empires surrounding nullsec, with more and more resources present the closer you get to the centre.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 15:07
|
|
|
Dalmuti posted:And it's all delta sqad's fault
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
DerekSmartymans posted:
fwiw: as doom-and-gloom as that post is, i do wanna add I'm not meaning to discourage people from playing if you're still having fun doing stuff! i mean, that's all that matters from an individual perspective. that write-up was a very large-scale and big-picture outlook at the game economy and a meta-analysis of the collective health of the game as a whole, and the directions I'm seeing the different sections of that playerbase heading in by relation of where I'm seeing economic activity happening at the same time, It ultimately doesn't matter for the subjective player experience at the individual level if your ingame activity moves a given market chart up or down or not - its very important that there's enough collective player activity for those charts to move, but again, that's not something that individual players have agency over one way or another, that's CCP's responsibility so if you're still having fun with buddies, regardless of what you're doing? keep having fun, don't let it kill your vibe i just wouldn't go putting down extra money into the game past a sub, because long term, lol, plex price contour overlappin' with global warming stats pretty cleanly at the moment and the plex price/unit and unit/day figures are pretty much the game's blood pressure and pulse
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 18:28
|
|
|
Dalmuti posted:And it's all delta sqad's fault
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 18:28
|
|
|
Even so, now would perhaps be a good time for CCP to consider "temporarily" making it possible again to make faction subcaps and battleships without needing moon mining components.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
A lot of the fun for me in Eve was just trying to learn all of the game systems and at least try everything the game has to offer. It's a very interesting world and puzzle to solve for a newer person. It took me 10 years to finally say I had tried everything and at that point I felt satisfied stepping away since there was nothing left to learn. I still hopped on to sputter around and goof off but it has become too hard to make that sustainable without things feeling like a space job
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 18:40
|
|
|
psilocybin laden posted:https://zkillboard.com/kill/103975479/ Not even an officer damage control? Them's rookie numbers, son
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 18:44
|
|
|
very important to be cap stable in your taxi proteus
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 18:53
|
|
|
Hobologist posted:Even so, now would perhaps be a good time for CCP to consider "temporarily" making it possible again to make faction subcaps and battleships without needing moon mining components. best fix (imo) outside of dropping sub prices would be to massively increase the income from non-instanced pve & add content in that area that creates reason to have players in space, counters the increased burden of plex subbing, creates income streams to support manufacturing efforts, etc. the income imbalance is hugely problematic because it's where the feedback loop of reduced player activity=reduced individual economic agency builds. i mean, you'd assume less players would make your share of activity grow relative to the overall economy, yeah? but that's only the case if the income sources are fairly evenly distributed across or otherwise connected to the majority of player activities. if they're not distributed properly, (and they aren't) and especially if more of the players who quit aren't active the areas being disproportionately rewarded? (and they aren't) then the two issues compound upon one another as one increases the economic imbalances driving the reduced player counts, which pushes further economic imbalance, further limiting options and pcu, ad infinitum as one section drops out, load falls to connected sections, then they fail, until now, where the last areas left active are ones that not only are the basic foundation connecting everything, which need to be regulated and supported by subsections that are in complete freefall to where they need artificial subsidization (i.e. reduced cost like you proposed) to remain functional/feasible at all in the current state it's a cascade failure of the game economy from the bottommost-layer upwards
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 19:06
|
|
|
What happened to economist they had? I know all the mobile games these days obsess over their in-game economy to make sure people keep on buying coins and poo poo, while keeping it still fun enough that retention doesn't sink, but EVE was kind of forerunner in that they had someone who actually knew their poo poo looking at the in-game economy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 19:28
|
|
Stubb Dogg posted:What happened to economist they had? I know all the mobile games these days obsess over their in-game economy to make sure people keep on buying coins and poo poo, while keeping it still fun enough that retention doesn't sink, but EVE was kind of forerunner in that they had someone who actually knew their poo poo looking at the in-game economy. Probably the typical cycle of most libertarian/conservative economists. Make the point that they want to make / the bosses want to hear. Cash the check and vanish when the consequences of failed predictions come to pass. See also the present UK government.
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 19:31
|
|
|
Stubb Dogg posted:What happened to economist they had? I know all the mobile games these days obsess over their in-game economy to make sure people keep on buying coins and poo poo, while keeping it still fun enough that retention doesn't sink, but EVE was kind of forerunner in that they had someone who actually knew their poo poo looking at the in-game economy. I always got the impression that the economist was a vanity project for both him and the company rather than a real employee who was expected to provide expert insights that they'd use to improve the game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 19:44
|
|
|
I wouldn’t be surprised if CCP is pushing or being pushed to make the only viable way to make ISK is through PLEX.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 19:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 03:00 |
|
|
Yeah if their plan is to pivot to a freemium-mobile-game-type monetization strategy where the ability to gain in-game currency and items through in-game performance is intended to be punishingly unpleasant and encourage people to spend real money directly on in-game currency and items, cutting off the isk faucets and generally drowning the in-game economy in the toilet is a necessary step. This will kill the game deader than dead, though. This is probably what they're doing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2022 20:48
|
|
