(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:fine he's not a conservative he's just afraid of change and thinks every revolution was a bad idea.  it's like we're talking about two entirely different films jesus loving christ. you do you, dear goon. you do you honestly im not even aiming for some odd type of sick internet burn or anything and I apologize if my previous replies did. Ive just never heard a viewpoint like that. Others replying to you have explained it better, but I don't really think his entire messaging is 'Change bad Status Quo good'. To be blunt I personally would describe it as a sort of Blackpiiled Historical Materialism, I guess?... "Yeah things are lovely, they've ALWAYS been lovely but that's still no excuse to not atleast TRY to make things just a bit less lovely for potential future generations?  "I actually like Maximo's take a bit better than my own Maximo Roboto posted:I thought he supported the collectivist mass action of the civil rights movement but believes that the individualist inwards-seeking of the hippies overtook it. Basically he covers many revolutions that got overtaken by selfish desires.
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Oct 19, 2022 23:38
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tristeham posted:lmao buddy of mine is still in the chapter and he wants to kill me so bad rn
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Oct 19, 2022 23:38
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BornAPoorBlkChild posted:
this adam curtis guy a marxist?
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Oct 19, 2022 23:39
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droll posted:Uhhh you don't know my party she goes to another school  You're probably into more mainstream stuff like CPUSA or PSL
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Oct 19, 2022 23:40
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Cuttlefush posted:adam curtis is probably a net benefit for now. he'll have to go eventually though. NOOOO croup coughfield posted:this adam curtis guy a marxist? a chud likely 
BornAPoorBlkChild has issued a correction as of 23:58 on Oct 19, 2022 |
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Oct 19, 2022 23:44
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BornAPoorBlkChild posted:
Sorry I'm just going to quote wikipedia at you. quote:Curtis is inspired by the sociologist Max Weber, who, he argues, challenged the "crude, left-wing, vulgar Marxism that says that everything happens because of economic forces within society". Of his general political outlook, Curtis has also remarked: Bonus: quote:Well, a lot of people go on about how I’m a leftist, but I’m not really, because I believe that ideas have consequences. And why I like people like Weber is because they are challenging what I see as that crude left-wing vulgar Marxism that says that everything happens because of economic forces within society, that we are just surfing, our ideas are just expressions—froth on the deep currents of history, which is really driven by economics. I’ve never believed that. Of course, economic forces have a great effect on us. But actually, people’s ideas have enormous consequences. Hegel! Hegel! Hegel!
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Oct 20, 2022 01:49
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nobody cares about adam curtis
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Oct 20, 2022 02:14
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Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3 posted:Sorry I'm just going to quote wikipedia at you. all these quotes show is that he has a mess inside his head the part about him being domestically neoconservative is the big clue - neocons' most important characteristic is their lunatic foreign policy, which he vehemently disagrees with but he can't say (or doesn't think) he's aligned with the marxists on this basic point which is "alienation exists and it's poo poo" so he has to torture the square peg definition of neoconservatism to fit it into the round hole inside his head
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Oct 20, 2022 02:33
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curtis is an anarchist
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Oct 20, 2022 02:34
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Doktor Avalanche posted:all these quotes show is that he has a mess inside his head If someone tells you they’re a neoconservative, believe them given broad Trotsky influence over the British left it would be unsurprising if he absorbed some of that on his way to neoconservatism, like so many before him
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Oct 20, 2022 02:36
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That Curtis quote sounds like a guy desperately trying not to get purged from the BBC because of his left-wing political leanings. The fact that he knows that Marxism is materialistic means he has at least some knowledge about it.
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Oct 20, 2022 03:14
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Cpt_Obvious posted:That Curtis quote sounds like a guy desperately trying not to get purged from the BBC because of his left-wing political leanings. so do several neocons
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Oct 20, 2022 03:16
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Actually, trot would make sense.
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Oct 20, 2022 03:18
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the thorough line in his work is attempting to create an idealist theory of modern history. its safe to say he is not a marxist in any sense
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Oct 20, 2022 03:22
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curtis is manifestly not a materialist I think by his own admission on multiple occasions. he's pretty explicitly a liberal idealist in that almost all of his works are arguments that the wrong ideas won so that's why things are bad. in every curtis doc there's a part about a big historical hinge point or sea change that upsets the balance, usually for the worse, and it's always because everyone's ideas changed, and the reasons why, like the actual material reasons why, are almost entirely glossed over. people just get Convinced by Big Ideas or - oh no! - it was base human selfish shortsightedness and that's it. dawww rats. I never really understood the love for curtis that a lot of the left has, besides him being a pretty ok documentarian most of the time. I get that people like it when someone says how the bad thing is bad but for a marxist I think there's very little to pull out from his work
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Oct 20, 2022 03:46
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Pentecoastal Elites posted:I never really understood the love for curtis that a lot of the left has, besides him being a pretty ok documentarian most of the time. I get that people like it when someone says how the bad thing is bad but for a marxist I think there's very little to pull out from his work yeah. i dont really get why he is brought up in the marxism thread. i mean i also dont really care that he is i just dont see the connection. he should be in the thread for people who have a growing feeling that things are a bit hosed up
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Oct 20, 2022 03:47
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Cuttlefush posted:yeah. i dont really get why he is brought up in the marxism thread. i mean i also dont really care that he is i just dont see the connection. he should be in the thread for people who have a growing feeling that things are a bit hosed up yeah i wonder why the guy who's reputation for just posting random poo poo into threads would post that here
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Oct 20, 2022 03:54
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Cuttlefush posted:he should be in the thread for people who have a growing feeling that things are a bit hosed up 📝 [Strange Happenings] Has something strange just happened? MEGATHREAD Pages: 1 2 3... 265 266 267 Last post
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Oct 20, 2022 03:55
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It's disheartening how minimal the presence of these orgs is in my state, much less my area. And honestly, I'm not seeing much from the CPUSA that gives me much confidence that there's more than meets the eye. I feel like there are a lot of people who call themselves communists who are deeply unserious about actually changing things. Both on the moderate and radical sides.
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Oct 20, 2022 03:59
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On the other hand, it’s easier to convince a communist to become a communist than it is to convince a liberal to become a communist. Joining these sorts of orgs, figuring out what needs to be done and convincing others of it is probably one of the things we should be doing. After all, communists are supposed to represent the most conscious and politically educated elements of the working class. Feeling like everybody else is faffing around means you’ve succeeded at that part .
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Oct 20, 2022 04:10
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unwantedplatypus posted:It's disheartening how minimal the presence of these orgs is in my state, much less my area. And honestly, I'm not seeing much from the CPUSA that gives me much confidence that there's more than meets the eye. I feel like there are a lot of people who call themselves communists who are deeply unserious about actually changing things. Both on the moderate and radical sides. It’s because western marxism is nothing but liberalism that utilizes communist aesthetics and iconography. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 20, 2022 05:23
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unwantedplatypus posted:On the other hand, it’s easier to convince a communist to become a communist than it is to convince a liberal to become a communist. But all these people on Twitter keep saying they were communists until someone asked them to do something communist-y! disaster pastor has issued a correction as of 13:55 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 13:53
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unwantedplatypus posted:On the other hand, it’s easier to convince a communist to become a communist than it is to convince a liberal to become a communist. Joining these sorts of orgs, figuring out what needs to be done and convincing others of it is probably one of the things we should be doing. After all, communists are supposed to represent the most conscious and politically educated elements of the working class. Feeling like everybody else is faffing around means you’ve succeeded at that part you see this in other countries. you see the communist party in brazil say to vote for lula, and while he's a social democrat or whatever and people can debate all of that, there are objective reasons why the current wave in latin american is a social democratic one instead of a revolutionary anti-capitalist one, that is certain limitations in terms of commodity prices and the willingness of people to get into a direct conflict with capital that prevent further movement i think right now, so i'm kinda okay now being comfortable with not having all the answers or knowing what the correct strategy is. i've gotten involved and am plugging away at a thing in my own little way. but i also liked something vijay prashad said about how joining orgs is important so you don't feel like you're individually trying to save the world. i also think "argh let's storm the white house right now" is unrealistic. there's always a tension between ultra-leftism (anarchism) and right-opportunism (social democracy) and nobody has really figured out how to navigate that tension perfectly. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 14:51 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 14:26
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AnimeIsTrash posted:yeah i wonder why the guy who's reputation for just posting random poo poo into threads would post that here what is TraumaZone about again? also his Docs do a fantastic job of giving a "History from below" perspective of everyday people getting inadvertently caught up in these Epoch-shifting, often disastrous foreign and domestic policies after watching this, at some point I need to start watching a Ken Loach film. I hear he's pretty good as well. BornAPoorBlkChild has issued a correction as of 18:17 on Oct 20, 2022 |
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Oct 20, 2022 18:08
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:and nobody has really figured out how to navigate that tension perfectly. what about stalin (USER WAS PERMABANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 20, 2022 18:25
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TinyPairOfScissors posted:what about stalin
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Oct 20, 2022 19:34
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I would have thought social democracy appears to be popular and making headway (though lol that Bernie saying but not gettinf something that other western countries had for 80 years is an example), because it's not a threat to Capital so its allowed. If it's not a threat then it's too slow because the planet might already be heating itself up despite us. And it allows imperialism to keep on raping. Though take my dumb opinion with a grain of salt. Where has social democracy made any real headeay without militant communists standing behind it being actually theatening?
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Oct 20, 2022 20:27
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droll posted:I would have thought social democracy appears to be popular and making headway (though lol that Bernie saying but not gettinf something that other western countries had for 80 years is an example), because it's not a threat to Capital so its allowed. If it's not a threat then it's too slow because the planet might already be heating itself up despite us. And it allows imperialism to keep on raping. Though take my dumb opinion with a grain of salt. Where has social democracy made any real headeay without militant communists standing behind it being actually theatening? Never, that's why it's called revisionism and recognized as a tool of capital to prevent revolutionary overthrow of the bourgeoisie.
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Oct 20, 2022 20:49
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droll posted:I would have thought social democracy appears to be popular and making headway (though lol that Bernie saying but not gettinf something that other western countries had for 80 years is an example), because it's not a threat to Capital so its allowed. If it's not a threat then it's too slow because the planet might already be heating itself up despite us. And it allows imperialism to keep on raping. Though take my dumb opinion with a grain of salt. Where has social democracy made any real headeay without militant communists standing behind it being actually theatening? It depends how you see making headway. Social democracy is popular because social democratic countries are better places to live than relatively more unrestricted capitalist countries, but one of the many things that the neoliberal era has made blindingly obvious is that social democratic advances in wellbeing are fragile because they change nothing about the underlying structure of society or the power of capital, they just blunt some of its harsher edges on a local level (as you say, imperialism carries on regardless). Social democracies don't evolve into socialist countries, but they sure do backslide into cutthroat capitalist ones, and in the meantime a ton of political energy gets used defending small gains instead of pushing for more permanent changes.
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Oct 20, 2022 20:57
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I would say that European social democrats are a bit of a different matter from American (N and S) social democrats. The social democratic parties in Europe were the more moderate alternatives to their respective communist parties; and their current form is a degeneration from a past of genuine left politics due to being hollowed out by capital. The direction of those parties and their politics is regressive, institutional, and pro-imperial. To be a social democrat is to be conservative, conserve our (white) welfare state and conserve the current global wealth imbalance. Socdems in imperial periphery countries are genuinely progressive due to their material interests lying against imperialism. Socdems are a way for the people of those countries to try and marginally improve their lives without drawing too much heat from big bro US. Most socdems in the US are those who are pro-working people but have not taken the leap to higher forms of class struggle. Unless you're a politics nerd (not a dig), its pretty unlikely for any given person to encounter communist politics in a context conducive to considering adoption of those politics. The left has not been particularly strong in generations; and class consciousness has been intentionally suppressed during that time. The increase in the popularity of social democracy is progressive in that it represents people becoming politically oriented around class struggle whereas before such politics were even more fringe. There isn't really a social democratic institution in US politics. The left wing of the democrats aren't even true socdems, tbh. Yes, many socdems in the US are pro-imperial, but anti-imperialists are over-represented amongst their number. I heard of DSA before I realized that CPUSA was even a politically active organization, and before hearing about any of the other orgs at all.
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Oct 20, 2022 21:18
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Following demcent by voting against fascism for PSL
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Oct 20, 2022 23:51
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Oct 21, 2022 01:44
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jfc
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Oct 21, 2022 02:33
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Aristotle was correct in seeking a "mixed" constitution. There should be a democratic element (popular assemblies/consultation) and an aristocratic element (constitutionally-enshrined Communist Party)
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Oct 21, 2022 04:35
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fwiw this involves this regional methadone clinic relocating into the middle of a historically black neighborhood and it's facing opposition from the locals https://twitter.com/boldminds/status/1481827177285005313
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Oct 21, 2022 04:57
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Doktor Avalanche posted:all these quotes show is that he has a mess inside his head His films already do that, really No one can cobble together those sorts of multimedia narratives and have simple consistent worldviews
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Oct 21, 2022 05:10
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like they might be wrong and i haven't really investigated the situation, but it sounds like the city wants to take the drug clinic and dump it in the black neighborhood and some people in the neighborhood don't like that. i've seen that clip before going around and i think i've done more investigation on what's going on in two minutes than the people have spent before posting that to harass a political organization of the left which they don't really understand. and i'm sorry but this is why i've given up on the "online left" to be anything but useless, and when they have zero connection to anything going on in their own community, don't know what's going on at their local city council or school board, etc. and they think that they're going to make some kind of revolution? it's absurd on its face. you'd be better off handing out sandwiches to homeless people in parks
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Oct 21, 2022 05:13
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why is it, do you think, that they dont like it
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Oct 21, 2022 05:48
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also try to breathe a little man, its ok
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Oct 21, 2022 05:49
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i'm sorry, i'm working out some frustration right now
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Oct 21, 2022 10:27
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