(Thread IKs:
Nuns with Guns)
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Funny how Sonic 06 still causes an outrage to this day. If anyone is bored of this discussion here's some weird Quantum Leap episodes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjG-bZeATAo
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Oct 22, 2022 16:14
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 13:25 |
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I think there’s something cool that can be done with the juxtaposition of the candlelit fantasy Venice and its overly fancy princess, the army of faceless robots lead by the pretentious doctor, and the nasty little cartoon freak blazing a trail of chaos through them both, but Sonic ‘06 definitely wasn’t it.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:02
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Delphisage posted:How is Mario 64 better than Sonic Adventure? To start with: I never played the Sega Genesis era Sonic games enough to have any distinct memory of them or manifest nostalgia there. I was in an age range pocket where I was too young to ask for video games when the SNES or Genesis were hot, so my interactions with them were only from visiting a friend or cousin's house where an older sibling had the consoles. I did buy a GameCube and I beat Sonic Adventure 1 and played many, many hours of Adventure 2 on it. Some of it even outside the chao garden! I know the GC ports are considered inferior, but I don't think all the jank of them is due to being awkward ports. All the characters controlled in uniquely weird ways to me, feeling stiff and floaty in different ways. The only parts that really feel fun or exciting are the Sonic and Shadow speed levels, and really only when some of the control was taken away from me by rail grinding or going through a speed boost pad. If this was all because of some mishandling of the port's controls though, then fair enough. The stories are some arrangement of melodramatic, silly, uninteresting, or nonsensical, depending on the character, but the voice acting often undercuts a lot of the charm just with how flat the English voices are. There's also weird lip syncing issues, volume mixing, dialog that cuts off other dialog, etc. Maybe that's those are all port issues? I was never very harsh on the game for them, but it's certainly distracting and drags down the few moments the game wants to you take semi-seriously. I enjoy Adventure 2 and I do have nostalgia for it. I still pull out the GC every few years to check on the chao I spent way too long breeding, and I try a few levels again. My feelings have shifted over time from thinking the main game is "dumb" to being more sympathetic for it as an artifact of its time and such, but I'd still consider it an uneven and weird game with a cute, cheesy, soundtrack For comparison, I did rent and play a bit of Mario 64 as a kid, but I was a little too young/stupid to understand some things it wanted me to do. I did play a good amount of the Switch port a couple summers ago, and I can see how the third person controls at the time were groundbreaking. Games have evolved past it and refined a lot of what it introduced. The camera controls were awful to me, for instance, and it was driving me nuts. It's a bit older and worse at indicating objectives for certain levels, but I'd say it's definitely got better handling, responsive button prompts, and I guess "weight" to the actions? I need to go back and play some more, but I'm not a huge fan of 3D platformers in general because repeating levels or segments when I fall off a ledge wear on me fast and I need to take long breaks from them. So this is a lot of words to say that I don't know if it's fair to compare to the Sonic Adventure games, but for a lot of internal and external reasons I think Mario 64 aged more gracefully. Meanwhile, most new entries in Sonic games end up being another cringe in the wall, unfortunately. People were pretty optimistic with Generations, happy with Colors, and delighted by Mania. Those are just interspersed with things people are more mixed or flat disappointed by. I suppose Nintendo is significantly less adventurous with Mario games, and that has really sucked at times, but I don't know if Sonic Team has ever had a new idea it's been able to implement well and that's another issue entirely.
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Oct 22, 2022 17:05
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Delphisage posted:How is Mario 64 better than Sonic Adventure? I'm less likely to clip out of bounds by walking forward in a level in Mario 64 than I am in Sonic adventure. The first loop in the first level of SA has a like 50% chance to fling you out of existence because the game couldn't handle it's own speed. The attempts at swapping up gameplay between characters was admirable but done very poorly in SA1. Tails amy and Sonic are all still "Just complete the level as fast as you can" with tails and amy having an * of Because you're trying to outrace another character. And the poor english dub and very very primitive cutscene direction kills a lot of the goofs and charms they were going for where Mario 64 has this constant flow of stumbling upon secrets in this big magic castle that was charming and fairly well designed. There's a whole world of levels hidden at the end of an otherwise normal looking dead end hallway that they lead you to jump at by placing a rabbit you need to chase just so that if you miss you fall right into it. The game's full of poo poo like that. IT's just incredibly well executed across the board and SA is...not. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 22, 2022 17:07
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I'm less likely to clip out of bounds by walking forward in a level in Mario 64 than I am in Sonic adventure. Is there a glitch compilation for SA1 that can prove it?
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Oct 22, 2022 17:12
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Delphisage posted:Is there a glitch compilation for SA1 that can prove it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZIiQ1DmdHk So you either just lose momentum, or if you're randomly at an angle you'll clip through the edge and fly straight up or fly far out and die in the water. Also earlier in this clip you'll see another common major issue in the game is that constantly fighting against it's design. You hit the booster you get launched fast and there's a curve in the path so you just hit a wall because if you hit left or right you just hard turn so you have to use the side steps to try and angle but you really can't with knowing the turns coming ahead of time. I will say a lot of this weird looseness in SA1 was fixed in SA2. And it's not a game without things to like it's just nowhere near as polished as Mario64 ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 22, 2022 17:15
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Love to see a new Captain Disillusion and immediately go "oh god..." because you know exactly what annoying thing he's talking about. In this case, alpha channels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XobSAXZaKJ8
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Oct 22, 2022 18:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZIiQ1DmdHk The DX version introduces a bunch of glitches like this, I can say with certainty this glitch isn't in the Dreamcast original. It's the problem with Sonic Adventure 1 in general, each port of the game gets worse and worse and introduces new problems that weren't there before. The DX version for Gamecube introduces problems like these and makes questionable changes, then the 2004 PC port introduced even more problems, then the PS3 and 360 ports were based on that port and make even more problems, then the Steam version was ported from 360 and made yet even more problems. There's a reason the modding framework for the Steam version of the game basically replaces all of the files with the 2004 port of the game and from there you can install mods that recreate the geometry and models of the Dreamcast version. Cybershell did a video on this even. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SORYL5J1Heg Each release of Super Mario 64 by contrast, even in the All Stars Collection for Switch is just the N64 ROM and an emulator running the game. Super Mario 64 is also probably the easiest N64 game to emulate as well, so you're guaranteed the same experience as you would playing it on an actual N64 console. Selenephos fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 22, 2022 18:41
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the huge thing Mario 64 has going for it is that its Mario 64. One of the best things about sonic adventure is that its sonic adventure but that aspect really holds it back. this might seem nonsensical but the wise will see that what I am saying is correct
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Oct 22, 2022 19:06
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The first loop in the first level of SA has a like 50% chance to fling you out of existence because the game couldn't handle it's own speed. this sounds desirable for a game where you gotta go fast Farg posted:the huge thing Mario 64 has going for it is that its Mario 64. One of the best things about sonic adventure is that its sonic adventure but that aspect really holds it back. 
Goon Boots fucked around with this message at 19:40 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 22, 2022 19:37
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SA2 is great but I also realize that I've got a lot of nostalgia that colors my take. The Tails/Eggman levels loving suck, and the entire final section of the game where you have to do time based platforming puzzles in quicksand or whatever the gently caress was going on in the Core is miserable. Final fight over blasting buttrock slaps though. Truly a game of contrasts. I actually played SA1 after SA2, and from this perspective I don't see how anybody could say SA2's controls are floaty. SA1 is just a miserable game to control, the physics feel completely off even without the glitches and it's hard to get any decent sense of how to tailor your inputs to actually get the character to go or do what you want. It also has like, zero sense of proper acceleration/deceleration which is really bad for a sonic game!
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Oct 22, 2022 19:37
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Sydin posted:SA2 is great but I also realize that I've got a lot of nostalgia that colors my take. The Tails/Eggman levels loving suck, and the entire final section of the game where you have to do time based platforming puzzles in quicksand or whatever the gently caress was going on in the Core is miserable. Final fight over blasting buttrock slaps though. Truly a game of contrasts. Was it SA1 or 2 where you were forced to get the Knuckle emeralds in sequential order?
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Oct 22, 2022 19:49
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Sydin posted:I actually played SA1 after SA2, and from this perspective I don't see how anybody could say SA2's controls are floaty. SA1 is just a miserable game to control, the physics feel completely off even without the glitches and it's hard to get any decent sense of how to tailor your inputs to actually get the character to go or do what you want. It also has like, zero sense of proper acceleration/deceleration which is really bad for a sonic game! Like I said, SA2 is an improvement in every single way from SA1.
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Oct 22, 2022 19:49
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Mr. Fortitude posted:He starts off being positive about concepts the game does well before ripping into the issues it has, explaining why the game has those issues and then going into how Sonic 06 forever poisoned the well of discussion for Sonic, largely driven by people who never even played the game and just watched an LP which is exactly what this thread has admitted doing right now and in turn, this had a snowball effect for the series going forward when Sonic Unleashed, a much better game than 06 got worse reviews than 06 did simply because it was now cool to dislike Sonic as an IP now  
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Oct 22, 2022 20:28
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I think SA2 is overall better than 1, which was why I bought that one with my babysitting money and not 1. Do agree a big part of the two games not aging well has been the inexplicably lazy daisy chaining of ports leading to every new release getting worse and worse versions of the games. Those games don't deserve that at all.
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Oct 22, 2022 20:36
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Doesn't the fact that Sonic 06 dedicated whatever limited dev time they had to developing another hedgehog character instead of a Chao Garden, despite it being a "return" to the Adventure style of game, taint it to the point of being indefensible regardless of the quality of its gameplay/story?
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Oct 22, 2022 20:42
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pentyne posted:Was it SA1 or 2 where you were forced to get the Knuckle emeralds in sequential order? SA2
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Oct 22, 2022 20:56
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Delphisage posted:How is Mario 64 better than Sonic Adventure? 1) it's good 2) it doesn't have several hours of the worst fishing minigame ever made to be required to complete
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Oct 22, 2022 21:02
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Scholtz posted:Doesn't the fact that Sonic 06 dedicated whatever limited dev time they had to developing another hedgehog character instead of a Chao Garden, despite it being a "return" to the Adventure style of game, taint it to the point of being indefensible regardless of the quality of its gameplay/story? My assumption has always been that the couple people that spearheaded the chao garden have left the company at this point, because it does seem crazy they've never revisited it. But I suppose the Sonic series in general loves to introduce things and never revisit them again.
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Oct 22, 2022 21:08
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Pigbuster posted:My assumption has always been that the couple people that spearheaded the chao garden have left the company at this point, because it does seem crazy they've never revisited it. But I suppose the Sonic series in general loves to introduce things and never revisit them again. I wonder how much of the OG chao garden was a "we need a selling point for the VMU" and dropped like a hot rock after that wasn't a top-down decree anymore
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Oct 22, 2022 21:15
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Pigbuster posted:My assumption has always been that the couple people that spearheaded the chao garden have left the company at this point, because it does seem crazy they've never revisited it. But I suppose the Sonic series in general loves to introduce things and never revisit them again. One did and one's still with the company: https://segaretro.org/Sachiko_Kawamura https://segaretro.org/Yoshihisa_Hashimoto Cybershell has a digression early on in another of his videos on Chao in particular that discusses the precursor to Chao in Nights into Dreams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuGA2taKfmA I don't know if you can really pull much out of why Chao were so big beyond an overlapping combination of pet sims and virtual pets being popular back then, a few developers having a particular enthusiasm for them, and them being in the right place to slot them into the games. The complete disinterest in capitalizing on them still being popular is funny but a bit of a shame. Like, they could easily license out some monetized-to-hell Chao phone game now and it'd probably rake in cash, but Sonic Team just hasn't pursued that for whatever reason. Even though Sega reps have said it's constantly their most requested game feature. https://twitter.com/TheNCSmaster/status/1546971357539352578
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Oct 22, 2022 21:33
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Isn't Sonic Frontiers open world, too? Perfect for resource harvesting to feed your chao! They could even put eggs at the end of really difficult traversal puzzles or something!!!Nuns with Guns posted:Cybershell has a digression early on in another of his videos on Chao in particular that discusses the precursor to Chao in Nights into Dreams: Thank you for posting an online creator so we can drag out this Sonic derail just a little bit further. I demand chaos!
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Oct 22, 2022 22:14
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Scholtz posted:Thank you for posting an online creator so we can drag out this Sonic derail just a little bit further. I demand chaos! Here's one from way back in 2016: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPOBsk-rjgU On another derail: Why does Innuendo Studios think people who like Bebop more than Evangelion are trolling?
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Oct 22, 2022 22:22
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FZHO1_VmNQ HELLO WISCONSIN
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Oct 22, 2022 22:52
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I will forever hold a grudge against the writers of that last seasons for not only breaking up Hyde and Jackie, but then pairing Jackie with FEZ. I'm literally getting angry typing this stupid post
Macaluso fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Oct 22, 2022 |
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Oct 22, 2022 22:59
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Knuckles should have spent more of Sonic Adventure scoffing and talking about how he’s going to kill Chaos.
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Oct 22, 2022 23:00
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Roach Warehouse posted:Knuckles should have spent more of Sonic Adventure scoffing and talking about how he’s going to kill Chaos. knuckles wanted to kill the little chao things?
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Oct 22, 2022 23:28
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Macaluso posted:I will forever hold a grudge against the writers of that last seasons for not only breaking up Hyde and Jackie, but then pairing Jackie with FEZ. I'm literally getting angry typing this stupid post I see this a lot on the internet and am surprised it's a common trend. Fez was a joke character (in retrospect as a non-preteen shittily written at that) but I never had any problems with that romance. Probably in part because I thought Mila Kunis was not able to play Jackie as having chemistry with any member of the cast - even with her eventual husband - and Masterson similarly was poo poo at it so I was never invested in that plot as a kid.
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Oct 23, 2022 00:12
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Goon Boots posted:knuckles wanted to kill the little chao things? No, not chaos. Chaos.
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Oct 23, 2022 00:20
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Goon Boots posted:knuckles wanted to kill the little chao things?
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Oct 23, 2022 00:33
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DeafNote posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FZHO1_VmNQ José should have made his logo big enough so that it just conveniently completely covers up Danny Masterson in that thumbnail 
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Oct 23, 2022 01:43
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I imagine it is kind of hard to have any kind of chemistry with Danny Masterson, in the same way that it’s hard to act naturally relaxed when you’re trapped in a cage with a hungry tiger.
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Oct 23, 2022 01:46
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Nuns with Guns posted:The complete disinterest in capitalizing on them still being popular is funny but a bit of a shame. Like, they could easily license out some monetized-to-hell Chao phone game now and it'd probably rake in cash, but Sonic Team just hasn't pursued that for whatever reason. Even though Sega reps have said it's constantly their most requested game feature.
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Oct 23, 2022 02:10
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At least we still have the web browser based 3D Chao Viewer
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Oct 23, 2022 02:13
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the Worms Armageddon UK Political Crisis Special https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlCgz5LHPs0&hd=1
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Oct 23, 2022 06:02
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GiantGrantGames, a guy who does goofy Starcraft 2 challenge runs, made a nice little video about how awful YouTube's ad structure is: YouTube Ads Are Getting Insane and I Hate It. I did not know that come 2023, Google will be working to shut down ad blockers on Chrome. Guess it's time for a new browser. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Oct 23, 2022 |
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Oct 23, 2022 11:39
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Skippy McPants posted:GiantGrantGames, a guy who does goofy Starcraft 2 challenge runs, made a nice little video about how awful YouTube's ad structure is: YouTube Ads Are Getting Insane and I Hate It. Uh, the link doesn't work. Thankfully, a quick search yielded the channel in question.
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Oct 23, 2022 11:56
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Oops, should work now.
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Oct 23, 2022 11:58
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Can someone explain what it is about the Chao Garden that people find interesting? Is it just that it's a raising game?
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Oct 23, 2022 11:59
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 13:25 |
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I AM GRANDO posted:I imagine it is kind of hard to have any kind of chemistry with Danny Masterson, in the same way that it’s hard to act naturally relaxed when you’re trapped in a cage with a hungry tiger. Remember when the worst thing about Masterson was he was a Scientologist?
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Oct 23, 2022 14:26
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