|
You should stay in gear while using the brakes. Clutch in when you finally come to the stop sign to stop.
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2022 21:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 02:10 |
|
|
CongoJack posted:I am still a new rider, this is my first year, but I have a question about this. I try to never coast and to either be on the brake or using the throttle when I ride. I live on a hill so when I go riding I usually go down the hill where the road ends with a stop at a T intersection. I will get into the appropriate gear and speed for the road there and ride the brakes down with the clutch pulled in. Once I get close to the bottom I downshift to first and stop. Is this a mistake? During my training course they told us to use brake and clutch together so that is what I have been doing. That is a mistake yes. Either that taught you wrong or they were just referring to the final 1st gear coming to a stop phase. You need to be in gear basically all the time. If you use a lower gear and engine brake more your brakes will have to do less work which is safer in general. Also from a mechanical perspective, moving fast with the clutch pulled in is Bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2022 21:34
|
|
|
yeah I was thinking about this since I figured someone would ask. I think the reason the MSF/BRC teaches you to use the brakes and the clutch together is because they don't want you accidently using the throttle against the front brake. Pulling the clutch in while coming to a stop in a straight line under braking isn't that bad, but it's also pointless. edit: I just reread your post. Yeah, don't ride down the hill with the clutch in. Maybe when you're like 30ft from your stop it's OK to think about pulling it in. When you have the throttle open, the rear tire is being pushed into the ground by 1.) rearward weight transfer, and 2.) anti squat. When you close the throttle, the weight shifts forward, but the rear tire is still under drive chain tension (but on the bottom instead of the top). I'm not sure how this interacts with anti squat, to be honest, and maybe Sagebrush or Slavvy can provide some insight here, but the rear tire traction, even if reduced, must still be good, because otherwise the engine forces would overpower the traction and the rear would lock up. When you pull in the clutch, neither of those things is happening. The rear wheel is just "free wheeling" and only has whatever grip is going to be created through the weight distribution, the shear grip of the tire, and your suspension. If things aren't going well, pulling in the clutch is almost always going to make it worse. Toe Rag fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Oct 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2022 21:52
|
|
|
Engine braking causing chain tension has a tendency to smooth out suspension oscillation making the bike more stable. If you then combine it with the rear brake, which causes the bike to squat a bit and get a bit longer, you drastically increase stability and reduce front tire load somewhat, which then lets you brake harder with the front if you need to.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2022 21:59
|
|
|
Yeah, I didn't clutch in, lemme go through the wreck as I remember it. First off, my speedo reads fast. At 55, speedo says 70. Fish eye lens on the camera can kinda skew things a bit. I was planning on being at 35 at the top of the hill, which is 10 mph under the road limit. There was a fine smattering of gravel on the road on the way UP the hill, which is where the bike honestly stopped..well, feeling connected is the best way to explain it. By the time I realized what was going on and even moved my hand to the brakes I was side ways, rear end out. That's when the bike hit that clear spot in the middle, got clean asphalt and I shot over. So yeah. Had shifted down into second on my way up the hill, letting the engine slow me down then saw the gravel at the top of the hill. Bike seemed to straighten up, stopped responding to my input, rear end stepped out, then blammo. I wish I'd taken more photos and stuff, but I was shaken up. Wound up tearing off my left footpeg, bent my handlebars and uh. Well this.  I'm not trying to shift blame here. I was out having fun, letting the bike run a bit, sure. But at the end of the day, I was at the controls. My fault full stop. But I wasn't breaking the speed limit. If I had KNOWN about the patch of mystery pebbles, I'd not only have picked a different line, but would have stayed home entirely. Blah. Now my shoulder hurts and I get to buy more bike crap over the winter to fix what I hosed up. At least it wasn't worse.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
gileadexile posted:
Ooof i had a break very similar to this. Now I have some fancy titanium hardware.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 00:27
|
|
|
Thanks everyone, reading your posts and thinking about it more I am probably misremembering what they were telling me in the course. Going down that hill is the only time I can remember doing that but it will give me something to pay attention to the next time I go out.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 00:45
|
|
|
gileadexile posted:There was a fine smattering of gravel on the road on the way UP the hill, which is where the bike honestly stopped..well, feeling connected is the best way to explain it. By the time I realized what was going on and even moved my hand to the brakes I was side ways, rear end out. That's when the bike hit that clear spot in the middle, got clean asphalt and I shot over. I see you blip the throttle at the very start, so I assume you are rolling the bike into the corner, ie throttle not open, letting it get there under its own momentum? Do you think if you have been maintaining a steady speed and then went to the brakes to slow you would have had a different outcome? Engine braking is fine but it's not something you are really in much control of. I think if you had been on the throttle and then onto the brakes, you probably would have started slowing sooner (because your speed would be higher), gotten better feel for the grip from your tires, had more time to process and make a decision, and control your bike better. gileadexile posted:But I wasn't breaking the speed limit. If I had KNOWN about the patch of mystery pebbles, I'd not only have picked a different line, but would have stayed home entirely. This is unfortunately not a real option. Like yeah, if it's absolutely dumping rain, maybe don't go out, but otherwise, conditions can change rapidly, as we have seen, and you need to be able to adapt. Your two primary controls are the front brake and the throttle, and it seems like you're not using either immediately leading up to this crash. I'm not trying to dunk on you, just offer you my opinion since you asked. I crashed when I first started, twice within 6 weeks, actually, and both were way dumber and more preventable. I just think it's really crazy how much I see people ride without using their brakes. Pretty much for any corner that I need to slow down, I use the brakes, especially if I can't see through the corner. Sucks about the collar bone. Hopefully it heals well and you can get back to riding 
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 01:56
|
|
|
Things having a smaller bike with better suspension and geometry from the last thirty years would've done: Increased effort to lock up Reduced sudden weight transfer on shutting the throttle Reduced fear of staying on the throttle Increased chance of recovering from a slide Reduced momentum to catapult you into a highside Reduced momentum to shatter your collar bone Then there's abs and dual sport tires if you care for such things
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 02:06
|
|
|
After you get your collarbone repaired (looks pretty busted), DO NOT SKIP THE PHYSICAL THERAPY. That was one big mistake i made because... i was 21. Reading your post inspired me to go out to do some parking lot practice. There's a slowly dying mall nearby with wayyyy too much overflow parking. There is this kinda closed ish area in the back (one place to exit/enter so no traffic goes through there) and the pavement is broken, then has been sealed in the cracks and now it's broken again, along with areas of various amounts of fine dust/gravel. It's great for practicing both "ideal" situation braking and also "oh poo poo there's some dirt in the middle of my braking zone" emergency braking so you have to back off as you're approaching the tire's traction limit. Unrelated question. I tried lane filtering up to a red light for the first time tonight (our state passed it, it's in effect now weeee). Any general advice or things you wanna pass on, those of you who have been doing it forever (CA and euro goons)? Besides like.. don't go into a space too narrow between cars.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 02:42
|
|
|
Russian Bear posted:Unrelated question. I tried lane filtering up to a red light for the first time tonight (our state passed it, it's in effect now weeee). Any general advice or things you wanna pass on, those of you who have been doing it forever (CA and euro goons)? Besides like.. don't go into a space too narrow between cars. Run your high beam while doing it Cover the brake 100% of the time Don't do it on the shoulder, only between lanes Don't do it with more than like a 20mph differential Don't split between a straight lane and a turn lane if you can help it (lots of people make last-second dodges when they realize they're about to go the wrong way) Pay super close attention to the alignment of the cars in the lanes and the angle of their front wheels (this may give you advance warning of someone about to do something stupid) If someone sees you coming and moves out of your way, give them a peace sign Don't be rude by splitting up to a four-way stop where everyone is taking turns Remember that when you're splitting, you're _always_ in at least one car's blind spot Never trust a turn signal I would also be super careful in your state, much more so than in California or Europe, because nobody in your state is used to this yet. California drivers, especially in SF and LA, are accustomed to motorcycles in between the lanes, so they generally (okay, occasionally) look out for bikes before changing lanes, will sometimes move out of your way if they notice you coming up, and don't get spooked when you ride by. In a state where it's a brand new phenomenon, all bets are off. I'd say at best you'll find a lot of car drivers are confused and scared by what you're doing, and at worst they will become furious and try to murder you because they think you're "cheating" at traffic. Be extremely alert. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Oct 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 03:07
|
|
|
Russian Bear posted:After you get your collarbone repaired (looks pretty busted), DO NOT SKIP THE PHYSICAL THERAPY. That was one big mistake i made because... i was 21. In addition to the above I'll add: if there's two slow moving queues and one of them is partially empty or has a gap, some muppet will swerve into the gap thinking they can win at traffic I'll also add that doing it part of the time is extremely dangerous. Do it as often as you come across traffic and your third sense will become finely honed and soon you'll be able to predict the cars' behavior from subconscious cues given by your reptile brain.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 03:26
|
|
|
You can see a wheel's rotation much more clearly than the car's initial movement. Cars move into spaces in traffic, be extra careful when one opens up.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 04:58
|
|
|
Russian Bear posted:Unrelated question. I tried lane filtering up to a red light for the first time tonight (our state passed it, it's in effect now weeee). Any general advice or things you wanna pass on, those of you who have been doing it forever (CA and euro goons)? Besides like.. don't go into a space too narrow between cars. I'll just warn that lane markings are slippery, and raised reflectors between them can nudge your wheel more than you expect.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 07:50
|
|
|
Try and pay attention to what the traffic lights are doing. Before the light turns green, you want to be either all the way at the front of the line, or be in a place where you can safely jam your bike between two other vehicles. Don't half rear end it - you need to make it absolutely clear to the vehicle behind you that that is now your spot, and that they cannot move until you have moved. In Yurp that's not seen as an insult. No idea what it's gonna be like in the USA. 9 out of 10 times you can either make it to the front, or squeeze into the space between two cars when the light turns green, but before everything starts moving. However, it's inevitable that eventually you'll get into the situation that you have *almost* made it to the front. 1 or 2 more cars to go. And *then* the light turns green. You have to react very decisively in that case. If there happens to be space, brake and squeeze into the gap between the *still stationary* cars. Otherwise, accelerate hard so you are past the front of the line by the time the first car reaches walking pace and you have a safe distance between you and them to get back into line. The average bike from a rolling start is so much faster than the average car from a stop, that it's easy to get well ahead of the cars. Be aware, however, that that's not the greatest thing to do. You have to react very quickly, if the cars are already moving before you decide it's already too late. A bike accelerating hard at barely 1m from a driver's head is pretty startling, and very loud if you don't have a stock exhaust. You also have to pay attention to cars that just so happen to accelerate hard, meaning that you might unexpectedly have to merge in behind the first driver. Finally, if you shoot out from between two rows of almost-stationary cars, pay extreme attention to anyone running a red light, who assume they can make it before the usually slow line of cars heaves itself into locomotion - not expecting a bike already going at essentially normal traffic speed. 20mph speed differential is quite a bit too fast in my opinion, to squeeze inbetween two rows of cars with barely more than a bike width between them. 20km/h is more like it. LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Oct 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 09:45
|
|
|
The above is a great post based on my limited experience with lane splitting, as well as why I rarely do it despite living where it's been legal. LimaBiker posted:Finally, if you shoot out from between two rows of almost-stationary cars, pay extreme attention to anyone running a red light, who assume they can make it before the usually slow line of cars heaves itself into locomotion - not expecting a bike already going at essentially normal traffic speed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 15:16
|
|
|
Wow thanks for all the nuance here yall! I look for/do many of these things already riding around, so hopefully this will just be a natural additional extension of all the "6th sense" patterns.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 17:21
|
|
|
knox_harrington posted:You can see a wheel's rotation much more clearly than the car's initial movement. Even if you live in a non-splitting jurisdiction, this is vital information for spotting cars at intersections or driveways that are about to SMIDSY you
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 20:06
|
|
|
LimaBiker posted:Finally, if you shoot out from between two rows of almost-stationary cars, pay extreme attention to anyone running a red light, who assume they can make it before the usually slow line of cars heaves itself into locomotion - not expecting a bike already going at essentially normal traffic speed. I also will quote this for emphasis. LimaBiker posted:20mph speed differential is quite a bit too fast in my opinion, to squeeze inbetween two rows of cars with barely more than a bike width between them. 20km/h is more like it.  Depends on the width of the lanes. I wouldn't go faster than 20, but speeds up to that point are fine as long as you have the space and a view far enough forwards.
|
|
#
?
Oct 18, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
Phy posted:Even if you live in a non-splitting jurisdiction, this is vital information for spotting cars at intersections or driveways that are about to SMIDSY you This is something my drivers ed instructor in high school taught us and has always stuck with me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2022 16:09
|
|
|
seattle goons (i know there are many of you in here): is it okay to leave a bike on the street under a cover for the rainy seasons? i don't have access to covered parking and i'd like to still ride when the weather allows so i'd prefer to not put the bike in storage for as long as possible.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2022 19:29
|
|
|
MSPain posted:seattle goons (i know there are many of you in here): is it okay to leave a bike on the street under a cover for the rainy seasons? i don't have access to covered parking and i'd like to still ride when the weather allows so i'd prefer to not put the bike in storage for as long as possible. yeah it’s fine. I had my 1290SAR living beneath a cover for a few years in Portland outdoors and no problems wrt rusting or anything else. just ride it every once in awhile and you’ll be golden
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2022 22:03
|
|
|
Yeah just keep it clean and you’ll be mostly ok. Source: parking a bike outside of an apartment with no garage space.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2022 23:38
|
|
|
If you're close to salt water clean and polish everything constantly. I'm 1-2 miles from water in 3 directions and anything that can rust will rust if you leave it covered for a while even when you put it away clean Also wash constantly if you keep riding when it's cold enough that they start spraying the roads. They like to say we're environmentally conscious, we don't salt the roads around here, but what they really mean is they don't spread literal salt crystals, they just spray the salty liquid brine Dog Case fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Oct 22, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2022 21:25
|
|
|
liberally coating everything in ACF-50 or something similar will help with the corrosion issue
|
|
#
?
Oct 22, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
So this season is probably over for me, as it is getting quite cold these days and road salt is not far off. There's just one thing that has been bugging me lately. We've previously discussed the need to keep steady throttle in turns, but I am struggling to do that in my daily (city) riding. Like just the intersections out of my neighborhood I have been actively trying to improve, but I always end up either slightly speeding up (which I don't want, already going fast enough) or just barely feathering between no speed gain and slight deceleration. I just seem unable to really ensure a smooth net zero. Doesn't help that all these corners are ascending or descending.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 05:09
|
|
|
Steady throttle isn't the same as steady road speed. You can have a steady throttle through a turn and be accelerating or decelerating and that can be fine. The idea of keeping a steady throttle is to keep the bike as stable as possible in a turn. The fundamental reason for this does not have to do with road speed -- it is about keeping your tire traction demand and suspension loading constant. In all riding, you have traction working in two axes -- front/back (accelerating and braking) and left/right (turning). To a reasonable approximation, you can just imagine adding the (absolute value of the) two numbers together, and when sum gets over a certain limit, the tire will slide. Getting on the gas increases the traction demand. So does braking, in the opposite direction. If you get on the gas super quickly at a stop, you can hit the limit right there, and the tire breaks loose -- a burnout. When you slam on the front brake, you can quickly hit the front tire's traction limit and cause it to slide. When you are neither accelerating nor decelerating, your tires have almost zero front/back traction demands. Turning adds a side traction demand. Turning harder requires more traction to counteract the higher G-forces of a sharper, faster turn. Turn too hard, and you hit your limit and slide. When you are not turning, your tires have almost zero left/right traction demands. Combine the values and you can see how things come together. When people say "in an emergency, stand the bike up first, then brake?" That's because if you brake hard while you're turning, you are already using up a lot of your traction in the turn, and can't use that traction for braking. You will either take much longer to stop than you could if you were upright, or you will lock up and lowside. Similarly, if you're in a sharp turn on a powerful bike and you slam the throttle open? The tire is already using all its traction to hold against the turning force, so the extra engine power puts you over the limit and it spins and slides and you go down. There are also things that can alter your tires' limit. Water on the roads, sand, oil, wet leaves -- all of these decrease the amount of traction your tires can handle before they start to slide. Warm weather makes your tires stickier and increases the limit. New tires have a higher limit than old ones. Racing tires have a higher limit than commuter tires. Etc. The load on each tire also affects its limit: if you have more weight on the tire, it will stick harder. The weight shift towards the front under heavy braking both increases the traction limit on the front tire, and decreases it on the rear. That is why it's easy to skid the rear wheel when you brake hard, and why it's so important to use your front brake. So, if you are in a turn and you aren't steady on the throttle, there are two things going on that could cause problems. First, changing the throttle setting means that you are changing the power situation at the rear wheel. If you add power, the tire gets closer to spinning up; if you reduce power, it sticks a bit tighter. If you are holding the throttle steady, the rear wheel is handling a consistent power load, whether you are riding at a steady speed or accelerating or decelerating. The road speed may be changing but the traction situation isn't. That is good in a turn. Second, if you suddenly add or remove power, you are going to change your suspension loading. Consider: if you're riding at a constant speed, your suspension should be in a steady position (near neutral). If you are accelerating at a constant rate, your suspension will also be in a steady position, just with more load on the rear -- and the reverse if you are steadily decelerating. All three of these are safe situations because the suspension loads are constant. However, if you suddenly change how you're accelerating (e.g. slam the throttle closed), the suspension loading is going to change (e.g. lighten the rear, weight the front). That also changes the traction situation. That would be bad in a turn. Perhaps in a steep turn your front tire is currently at 60% of its traction limit, and you're running across some patches of sand that you haven't noticed which is pushing it up to 90%, and then you just add a little bit of gas and knock down the tire's limit by 15% without changing anything else...  So anyway tl;dr is keep your wrist steady and don't suddenly add or remove power. It is not a big deal to be slightly speeding up or slowing down in a turn. Whether you are accelerating or decelerating in a turn is a second-order question -- important to understand to ride well, but less important than ensuring that you are steady with the throttle. The most important thing is just to not change things up while you are in a turn.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 06:00
|
|
|
Depending on your bike and gearing it may be literally impossible to maintain a steady road speed in the range you're asking for. Often on big and powerful bikes with short gearing you just have slip the clutch through the whole intersection if you don't want to be slightly accelerating, some bikes also just have absolutely garbage fuel mapping from the factory that makes it impossible in all but ideal circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 06:23
|
|
|
I just passed 4,000 miles on my Rebel.  Doesn't need to do too much for the 4,000 mile service though I ended up slightly tightening up the clutch. How seriously should I take the "please don't attempt these maintenance tasks yourself please take your Rebel to a dealer" notices in the manual? I see a few of those on the tasks for the 8,000 mile service.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 07:05
|
|
|
unimportantguy posted:How seriously should I take the "please don't attempt these maintenance tasks yourself please take your Rebel to a dealer" notices in the manual? I see a few of those on the tasks for the 8,000 mile service. How long is a piece of string? Me and a lot of other people don't bother looking at that stuff, otoh some people are unable to set their chain tension on their own without dropping their bike. There's nothing on your Honda that requires special dealer tools or techniques or even a particularly large number of brain cells, if that's what you're asking.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 07:17
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:There's nothing on your Honda that requires special dealer tools or techniques or even a particularly large number of brain cells, if that's what you're asking. Nothing on the list of tasks seems all that intimidating to me and I wasn't planning on taking my bike into a dealer until it was time to do valve clearances. But my dad (who is my go-to for mechanical advice because he's been maintaining his own bikes since the 70s) said I shouldn't bother inspecting the steering head bearings myself and I should take it in to a dealer. It really doesn't look like a big deal to me so I decided to ask for a second opinion. Could be I'm underestimating! For mechanical skill level I have little experience but I do have access to tools, service manuals, and someone who can tell me if I'm doing it wrong. All I've actually done before is super simple stuff like oil changes and chain cleanings.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 08:57
|
|
|
You can inspect your steering head bearings by getting the front of the bike off the ground, grabbing the bottom of the forks and seeing if you can wiggle them back and forth at all, then turn the bars side to side and feel for any notchiness or dead spots. Being that it's fairly light you could accomplish this by getting a helper to put their foot on the side stand and heave back on the frame so the front wheel is free for you to move. You don't need to take anything apart. You also don't really need to do anything besides change the oil and adjust the chain, it is a Honda, it's astronomically unlikely it needs anything at that low a mileage. The plugs won't be worn, the air filter will be clean, at most you'd need to do the brake fluid if it's been a few years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 10:29
|
|
|
Slavvy posted:You can inspect your steering head bearings by getting the front of the bike off the ground, grabbing the bottom of the forks and seeing if you can wiggle them back and forth at all, then turn the bars side to side and feel for any notchiness or dead spots. Being that it's fairly light you could accomplish this by getting a helper to put their foot on the side stand and heave back on the frame so the front wheel is free for you to move. You don't need to take anything apart. This is more or less the impression I got from reading the manual and I have no idea why my dad was worried about it. That's why I asked for a second opinion. quote:You also don't really need to do anything besides change the oil and adjust the chain, it is a Honda, it's astronomically unlikely it needs anything at that low a mileage. The plugs won't be worn, the air filter will be clean, at most you'd need to do the brake fluid if it's been a few years. This is also more or less what I expected, based on general Honda reputation and looking around online. I dunno maybe my dad is overly cautious or something but he was saying I should get the full inspection done by a mechanic at 8,000 miles  Thanks as usual for your prompt and helpful replies, Slaavy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2022 11:53
|
|
|
If it's under warranty and you want to keep it that way, some mfrs require that all services be done by an authorized shop or dealership for the first X miles/X years.
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 18:16
|
|
|
HenryJLittlefinger posted:some mfrs require that all services be done by an authorized shop or dealership for the first X miles/X years. some mfrs always trying to ice skate uphill
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 18:18
|
|
|
HenryJLittlefinger posted:If it's under warranty and you want to keep it that way, some mfrs require that all services be done by an authorized shop or dealership for the first X miles/X years. not in the US
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 19:03
|
|
|
HenryJLittlefinger posted:If it's under warranty and you want to keep it that way, some mfrs require that all services be done by an authorized shop or dealership for the first X miles/X years. yeah, that's illegal in the usa. they can't deny the warranty for you going somewhere else for service. you do have to keep the receipts to prove that the service was done, though. including receipts for when you bought the oil if you did the oil change yourself, etc. also they can still try to make up some bullshit about how other places will do it wrong and break your bike and that won't be covered under warranty. if this was the case, they would have to prove that the work was done wrong, so it will never actually get to that point. but they will try to scare you Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Oct 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 19:52
|
|
|
Sagebrush posted:yeah, that's illegal in the usa. they can't deny the warranty for you going somewhere else for service. you do have to keep the receipts to prove that the service was done, though. including receipts for when you bought the oil if you did the oil change yourself, etc. This is how it works here too. I've been the expert witness at a few tribunal mediations lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:04
|
|
|
I would be interested in knowing more about these mediations and what, specifically, you were asked to provide your expertise on.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 02:10 |
|
|
Sagebrush posted:I would be interested in knowing more about these mediations and what, specifically, you were asked to provide your expertise on. Ok so every dealer is pretty much obliged (not by law but by general expectation) to be a member of a certain trade association and carry it's branding. Most independent workshops are, some aren't. To be a member you need to meet certain standards wrt premises, customer care, work standards etc as well as pay a nominal fee. If a customer to an association member has some kind of dispute eg you sold me a bike you knew was faulty, you took ten months to fix my broken indicator lens, they are entitled to free meditation done by the association. There are set thresholds for what is considered a reasonable timeframe, reasonable due diligence etc. The member business is obliged to abide by results of said mediation Or Else. Typically they need someone who isn't in any way connected to either party to weigh in on technical matters if the issue is something to do with that. In the car world afaik they have internal experts but bikes are a much smaller, more niche thing so they often have to get outside guys and that was me a few times. I don't want to get into how I got into that position. I've also done it a couple of times for small claims court cases, which was alarmingly more blase but also a lot more amusing with how angry the scam artists get, in those cases it was much more along the lines of 'the court needs to know if this really was a ripoff' type stuff, usually via email and then phone. As to what I was asked about, pretty much exactly what you'd expect. One example: a guy with a piaggio scooter got a broken drive belt, got suckered into a needless clutch and variator replacement which they promptly hosed up, while also breaking the poo poo out of his cvt cover in the process. Afterwards the bike accelerated really jerkily and the clutch slipped at random on take off. The shop hosed him around repeatedly so he called up asked for mediation. The org took the scooter to their facility and I got called in to do a post mortem. It was obvious that they damaged the tension cones on the clutch, destroyed the orings in the middle which caused shaft grease to go all over the cones, belt and clutch, and they also didn't clear out all the old belt fibers so they got stuck into everything and hosed things up further. Additionally, they clearly didn't know you have to disconnect the shock and raise the bike out of the way to get the cvt cover out, they also didn't look like they were initially aware that you have to undo a nut under a plastic cover and tried to pry i the cvt cover off with a bar, which broke a chunk out of the corner. I took photos of this, put it all together in an easily digestible explanatory package and had to do some more explaining over the phone. This info then gets taken to mediation, officially I'm not meant to know what the outcome was. A couple of times it was what we're talking about here, basically spurious claims that non-dealer maintenance led to unrelated failures. Let's say I have good cause to hate the orange men. Slavvy fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Oct 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:50
|
|