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FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009

I think they should move the miner bot to t1. It works thematically for a robot overlord to have something to dig out a mountain lair from the start.

Since I wanted to jump in with all the content I edited the robot start to have a vampire also and the vampire early on is more useful since it can take on early raiders easily and the stop bleeding spell is very useful. Once the robots get going I think they outpace the vampires since managing the vampire stuff is harder than the pollution. I was surprised the mats for robots aren't that bad either. You also have to wait nearly two years to infect anyone else with your vampire.

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The Good Queen Clitoris
May 11, 2008

You raised my hopes and dashed them quite expertly, bravo sir!

zedprime posted:

I haven't played Rimworld for 5 years. I'm not averse to dropping expansion money to catch up but what I'm worried about is new game set up or UI onboarding turning into an absolute mess with new options while I get my organ harvesting legs. Is it tidy enough to jump in 100% or should I play a warm up round and buy expansions when I can recognize what they are advertising they add?

New game set up is a bit different because of Ideology but its pretty easy to figure it out. I don't think much has changed with the UI itself (outside of changes from the vanilla 1.0 launch) from the expansions but I could be wrong.

Biotech did add a lot of genetics options that you CAN tinker with while starting a new game but you can safely ignore that and enjoy all the new races and stuff in the world after starting a new game.

e: That being said if you just want to get your bearings try to launch the vanilla game and make a quick colony and poke around in the menus before buying the DLCs.

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009


This one won't work for me since my colony doesn't have harems but vast interconnected flowcharts of relationships beyond the boundaries of mere cubes so there's no 'master' to be the central bed owner. Like a vampire has been sleeping with her son-in-law but she's now engaged to him too so he's now marked fiance/son-in-law and her two other partners (including the father) are already in their own multi-partner relationships but not with each other. We really gotta abandon the concept of assigned beds here I dunno who goes where

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

HelloSailorSign posted:

Oh, Pick Up and Haul has been working fine for me so far.

same, it throws an error from time to time but it still works fine.

zedprime posted:

I haven't played Rimworld for 5 years. I'm not averse to dropping expansion money to catch up but what I'm worried about is new game set up or UI onboarding turning into an absolute mess with new options while I get my organ harvesting legs. Is it tidy enough to jump in 100% or should I play a warm up round and buy expansions when I can recognize what they are advertising they add?

the DLCs are all a la carte and you can play with none, or any combination and they work fine, none of them depend on any of the others. there is now a search function in the toolbar if you don't know where a thing is in the UI you can type its name, and there are things like item info that explicitly shows what worktables are capable of crafting that thing, the UI has matured fairly well. the research UI has gotten to be kind of a mess and while there are mods out there that change it in various ways, not all of them make it better (I'm just using one that allows you to queue multiple topics to be researched).
e: DLC specific toolbar items have their own clearly noted section in the bottom left (e.g. the Biotech constructions are under the Biotech button, Ideology constructions under the Ideology button)

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Oct 25, 2022

Geomancing
Jan 8, 2004

I am not an egghead. I am well-read.
I read that the Stackable Chunks mod still works even though it says it's the 1.3 version, so I think 'awesome' and install it, load up my game.

I was just about to start a big base expansion with stone walls, and had forgotten that when you kick on Stackable Chunks, the way it defines chunks is different from the base game so it completely deletes every single chunk already existing on the map so it can start generating the stackable versions. So I have no stone and would have to start strip-mining to get anything.

Ah, Rimworld modding.

Anyway, I also have the 1.3 version of Majestic Trees installed and it works fine too.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I would say I also struggle a lot with starting a new game, especially as there is very little provision in the base game for doing a real "themed" playthrough while retaining elements of progression. And if you do want to do a more organized playthrough you have a tremendous amount of setup work with setting up a new ideoloigion and rolling some appropriate colonists because the game doesn't let you pick your own.

It's a big weakness I think, the game could really stand to look over the ideology system and introduce a mechanically limited option, as well as something like the DF prepare carefully system that lets you pick stuff for your starting colonists with a strict budget.

It is very difficult to thread the needle between breaking the game in half and making something interesting that utilizes all the features, and I think that has only gotten worse as the game has added more systems that do not interact with each other especially well (each expansion basically ignores the others)

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

What's the best way to keep a Sanguophage's feeding slave completely docile? Like, can I keep them in cryosleep and only wake them to feed?

e: By docile I mean like, never have to deal with them at all lmao

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Oct 25, 2022

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4
Ah, now I remember my biggest annoyance with RimWorld. Is there any way to automatically restrict pawns to an area when hostiles are on a map? I don't need you to go out and rearm that trap right now, buddy. You don't need to walk into grenade fire. it's not worth it!

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

PSA if you're encountering a bunch of weird bugs that other people aren't encountering then you might try disabling some of the bigger mods that change fundamental game functionality. I've read complaints about bizarre behavior that went away after disabling Rocketman, Common Sense, and a handful of other things. These have the 1.4 label but that doesn't mean they are bug-free

Croccers
Jun 15, 2012

death cob for cutie posted:

Ah, now I remember my biggest annoyance with RimWorld. Is there any way to automatically restrict pawns to an area when hostiles are on a map? I don't need you to go out and rearm that trap right now, buddy. You don't need to walk into grenade fire. it's not worth it!

The stock standard Areas tool should do the job (assuming it's not one of those modded things that fits perfectly in with the base game), just remember to switch them to the correct Area and then back when done otherwise you'll be wondering why they're sitting on their hands instead of hauling.
Drafted folk will walk anywhere you tell them to.

Cool Dad
Jun 15, 2007

It is always Friday night, motherfuckers

I finally started a game, using the Crash Landing mod. I ended up starting with like 15 bleeding colonists, several of whom died including one of my carefully selected starting pawns. The map was filled with rotting food, dead animals, dangerous predators that were also wounded, and most of the map was either on fire or irradiated.

Anyway I'm going to start over without that mod.

syense
Oct 13, 2018

people who play large jenga at bars have nothing of interest in their lives.

death cob for cutie posted:

Is there any way to automatically restrict pawns to an area when hostiles are on a map?

I generally set up a “safe” zone area that I flip all the colonists over to in the schedule? Work? Tab when a raid is happening. Cover defensive areas but leave the outer areas clear.

E: that might not be vanilla.

piL
Sep 20, 2007
(__|\\\\)
Taco Defender
Common sense had a big bug, but it got squashed a couple of days ago. Are your Steam mods updating often and automatically? Not if you're like me! I don't really have a solution I recommend other than going through mods in order of last updated and reinstalling them until updates are behind your subscription date

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Fhqwhgads posted:

It was Common Sense that was doing it! Guess I'll disable it until I'm done with flak vests.

I had this issue, going into the Common Sense options and disabling the haul work bill items in one trip setting was enough to make the problem go away.

FuzzySlippers posted:

I think they should move the miner bot to t1. It works thematically for a robot overlord to have something to dig out a mountain lair from the start.

The Tunneler has a large body size and the tier 1 gestator only makes small stuff. I'd like to be mining at T1 too but making the mech small would also cut into its effectiveness as a melee tank for infestations. :shrug:

The cleaning bot is tier 2 despite being small but I figure that's because Tynan bundled the new clear pollution job under cleaning and it would make controlling pollution spread a little too easy with a bot to do it from the start, as it is now you'll have a small wasteland to clear out before your get one.

OwlFancier posted:

It's a big weakness I think, the game could really stand to look over the ideology system and introduce a mechanically limited option,

Isn't that what the introduction of fluid ideologies was supposed to help with? Pick only one meme to start with, add more over time as your colony develops.

I do think ideologions should be less 'siloed' between each other though, converting someone whose ideology is identical to yours minus a couple precept severity differences shouldn't be just as hard as converting someone who believes in the polar opposites.

deep dish peat moss posted:

What's the best way to keep a Sanguophage's feeding slave completely docile? Like, can I keep them in cryosleep and only wake them to feed?

e: By docile I mean like, never have to deal with them at all lmao

Remove their legs, you'll need a warden to feed them but they can't attempt prison breaks or have mental breaks anymore.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

isndl posted:

Isn't that what the introduction of fluid ideologies was supposed to help with? Pick only one meme to start with, add more over time as your colony develops.

I do think ideologions should be less 'siloed' between each other though, converting someone whose ideology is identical to yours minus a couple precept severity differences shouldn't be just as hard as converting someone who believes in the polar opposites.

It helps, but I think it is still very easy to make them in such a way that the game becomes trivial. I think the xeno system is much better in that respect in that you can still make quite diverse playstyles but you have to pick costs and benefits and balance them out. It doesn't have to be a perfect system and it should be optional much as building a balanced gene setup can be disabled in the options, but I would like some sort of limitation to what memes I can pick, some sort of cost or balance system.

I also really think they would benefit from making the festivals, relics, clothing restrictions, roles etc, develop over time through the game, rather than having to set them all up at the start, it's the sort of thing I think would be better done by events through the game, a major raid might give you an event says "your colonists have decided they want to elect a leader because of how difficult the raid was" along with some sort of idea prompt for what specifically might have prompted it or what they might hope to achieve by it.

The fluid ideologion system just feels very half assed, basically, and doesn't do much to offload the actual up front setup effort, whereas pacing it out through the game I think would be good.

deep dish peat moss posted:

What's the best way to keep a Sanguophage's feeding slave completely docile? Like, can I keep them in cryosleep and only wake them to feed?

e: By docile I mean like, never have to deal with them at all lmao

The gene "dead calm" makes prisoners never attempt a break, and you can set them up as a hemogen farm automatically.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Oct 25, 2022

BadLlama
Jan 13, 2006

holy poo poo shelves own now

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

OwlFancier posted:

I would say I also struggle a lot with starting a new game, especially as there is very little provision in the base game for doing a real "themed" playthrough while retaining elements of progression. And if you do want to do a more organized playthrough you have a tremendous amount of setup work with setting up a new ideoloigion and rolling some appropriate colonists because the game doesn't let you pick your own.

It's a big weakness I think, the game could really stand to look over the ideology system and introduce a mechanically limited option, as well as something like the DF prepare carefully system that lets you pick stuff for your starting colonists with a strict budget.

It is very difficult to thread the needle between breaking the game in half and making something interesting that utilizes all the features, and I think that has only gotten worse as the game has added more systems that do not interact with each other especially well (each expansion basically ignores the others)

yep you have to cheat judiciously and use a lot of restraint. I'm OK with it but you're totally right, there should be a more fleshed out and robust scenario system - what is there is pretty great, but to do something like I'm doing with "all my joiners are wasters" or the like you just can't do it without a mod or via editing stuff in with the dev tools.
e: and yeah you wouldn't even WANT to except for seriously thematic reasons, this colony I'm doing is mechanically insane and very bad and obviously very contrary to what was intended

OwlFancier posted:

It helps, but I think it is still very easy to make them in such a way that the game becomes trivial.

and yeah that's a problem as well - again I'm ok with it but you have to have a lot of restraint to avoid just doing highly optimal things because there's no reason not to.

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Oct 25, 2022

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I decided to roll a dwarf xenotype and do a proper dwarf fortress, as someone else upthread was doing with booze dependency etc. But you can't pick tunneler as a starting option for a fluid ideoligion, and frankly even if you do, it kinda just... breaks the game a bit? It completely trivializes food production and there is no reason to make anything but fungus food 100%. But you need that if you want people to be happy living underground because for some reason there is no genetic thing that makes you OK with being underground. You can make people who hate sunlight and like darkness, but they still want to go outside.

I dunno, it would be nice if i could pick separate memes a bit more and just pick underground enjoyment, in exchange for some sort of downside. The ideologiion progression just feels very bad and unfinished. The system is cool, but it really feels more like an expansion of the scenario system than an actual game mechanic.

It also feels, honestly, like the genetics system is just a better implemented version of the ideology system, and that there are a few glaring omissions in it that I have to imagine were deliberate to avoid obsoleting large parts of the ideology system.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

isndl posted:

Isn't that what the introduction of fluid ideologies was supposed to help with? Pick only one meme to start with, add more over time as your colony develops.

again this is something that requires a lot of restraint, because there are two super obvious roles that break the game in half (shooting specialist and production specialist) and you have no reason not to take them, they're just EXTREMELY good compared to all the other choices. This DLC helps that somewhat I think by making melee optimized dudes immensely more powerful offensively and especially defensively, but that doesn't really help with making the other roles and the memes you have to commit to to get them any more mechanically appealing.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

BadLlama posted:

holy poo poo shelves own now

they do, yes

isndl posted:

I do think ideologions should be less 'siloed' between each other though, converting someone whose ideology is identical to yours minus a couple precept severity differences shouldn't be just as hard as converting someone who believes in the polar opposites.

you mean like, roman catholicism vs lutheran, or like, shia vs sunni, or

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Oct 25, 2022

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

IMO ideologies should be somewhat hands-off to the player and develop organically over time. Not like the Fluid ideology is now but I mean, three of your colonists end up blind and so you develop the blindsight meme to cope. You survive a tough winter with the help of some animal friends that wandered in and got tamed at a lucky time, and you gain Rancher. It should all be automatic based on the things that happen to your colony instead of things that you choose.

I keep them turned off because I just don't have fun interacting with them as-is. If they were essentially just achievements that unlocked new themed rituals/buildings/clothes/etc that would be rad.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Oct 25, 2022

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

deep dish peat moss posted:

IMO ideologies should be somwhat hands-off to the player and develop organically over time. Not like the Fluid ideology is now but I mean, three of your colonists end up blind and so you develop the blindsight meme to cope. You survive a tough winter with the help of some animal friends that wandered in and got tamed at a lucky time, and you gain Rancher. It should all be automatic based on the things that happen to your colony instead of things that you choose.

I keep them turned off because I just don't have fun interacting with them as-is.

That could be a way to do it. I think I personally would like something like that, with the option to refuse or accept (or pick from a few possible related memes) and if you reject you get a kesser amount of ideology points to buy new memes with from the whole possible list (less than the value of the suggested memes to give you a reason to try and do it organically without preventing you from doing what you had in mind). Combined with some sort of balancing thing where memes are either mutually exclusive or work like the genetic thing where you have to balance positives and negatives.

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4

syense posted:

E: that might not be vanilla.

No, that's vanilla, and it's something I can do, I just wish it was... automatic. Like, my pawns should have some amount of desire to not get gutted by raiders. I know, Paul, you want to haul the steel! I'm proud of your work ethic! But now your lungs are full of knives. And now you'll never haul steel again.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
getting into the Doing Bad Things part of the content, and they forgot to give your colonists an unhappy thought if your grind up 20 prisoners in this particular way



e: woops I powergamed a bit (my ideo has Execution: Don't Care)

e: gosh what a helpful kid :allears:

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Oct 25, 2022

isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

OwlFancier posted:

I dunno, it would be nice if i could pick separate memes a bit more and just pick underground enjoyment, in exchange for some sort of downside. The ideologiion progression just feels very bad and unfinished. The system is cool, but it really feels more like an expansion of the scenario system than an actual game mechanic.

Yeah, some of the restrictions with ideologions can be pretty frustrating but at the same time I can see why it was necessary, most players are always looking for optimal choices and even a simple "you can make anyone neutral about $subject for free, happy about it costs meme picks" would just result in players disabling all the bad thoughts they can because they can. Biotech's gene modding uses metabolic efficiency as a unifying mechanic which is really clever and is immensely helpful for opening up the design space since anything that looks too strong just costs more food, but I can't think of anything with similar potential for ideologies. If someone has any ideas I'd love to hear it.

Flesh Forge posted:

again this is something that requires a lot of restraint, because there are two super obvious roles that break the game in half (shooting specialist and production specialist) and you have no reason not to take them, they're just EXTREMELY good compared to all the other choices. This DLC helps that somewhat I think by making melee optimized dudes immensely more powerful offensively and especially defensively, but that doesn't really help with making the other roles and the memes you have to commit to to get them any more mechanically appealing.

Yeah, some of this could be attributed to Tynan not fully realizing how powerful some things are (it took how long for us to notice aim time reduction affecting psycasts?) but I agree that balance wasn't a strict concern when designing the ideologies. Supremacist seems like it was supposed to be balanced by the faction relationship resting point reduction which is basically no penalty at all, and Human Primacy might as well be considered as having no downsides at all.

I've mentioned this before, but I do think that many of the "harder" memes have a lot more playability now with Biotech to fill in the gaps, like Nudists with temperature resistance mods and Naked Speed. Melee specialists still look kinda bad compared to shooting specialists, but on the other hand we can now create disposable brawlers with innate leaps. The two DLCs don't directly touch each other but there's a lot of indirect synergy that I'm excited to see shake out as people play around with it.

Flesh Forge posted:

you mean like, roman catholicism vs lutheran, or like, shia vs sunni, or

Real world religious analogies gets a little sticky because there's hundreds of years of history there that Rimworld doesn't attempt to emulate (and your crash-landed pawns may well have zero history with the local flavors anyways). I was thinking more broadly, like your vegetarian hippies will have a harder time converting a carnivore rancher than an omnivore, or guilty pacifists struggling to convert a cannibal raider. The game does have some conversion modifiers on an individual basis (it's easier to convert a wimp away from a Pain is Virtue ideology for example) but at the same time there's no accounting for what you're trying to convert them to (you have an easy time converting a wimp from PiV to another PiV ideology).

OwlFancier posted:

That could be a way to do it. I think I personally would like something like that, with the option to refuse or accept (or pick from a few possible related memes) and if you reject you get a kesser amount of ideology points to buy new memes with from the whole possible list (less than the value of the suggested memes to give you a reason to try and do it organically without preventing you from doing what you had in mind). Combined with some sort of balancing thing where memes are either mutually exclusive or work like the genetic thing where you have to balance positives and negatives.

I like the idea of organic ideologies developing from in-game events, but I can only imagine the nightmare it would be to test and debug it. And eventually every ideology trends towards Supremacist anyways because you're murdering so many raiders all the time. :shepface:

death cob for cutie posted:

No, that's vanilla, and it's something I can do, I just wish it was... automatic. Like, my pawns should have some amount of desire to not get gutted by raiders. I know, Paul, you want to haul the steel! I'm proud of your work ethic! But now your lungs are full of knives. And now you'll never haul steel again.

There's at least one mod that had a one-button toggle to flip everyone into emergency mode schedules, but I always forgot to assign the zones for new colonists and people ended up getting ganked anyways. I don't think there are any that are fully automatic though. Some events like infestations or mechanoid clusters might not immediately attack and just sorta hang out forever in their little corner of the map but I think are still considered a raid event (they'll block Empire bestowal ceremonies at least).

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

I get a heatwave while protecting someone with paralytic abasia, I don't have coolers set up for anything but a freezer yet and I'm out of steel so I have to mine more, and then I have to build another watermill generator (or at least get the one I tried to build a week ago up and running), and then I have to deal with seemingly more common raids and everyone constantly running to the freezer to lower their heatstroke, but I eventually get everything ready and built...

and then I get a solar flare. So I have to build the passive cooler I apparently should have built immediately anyway.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Hellioning posted:

I get a heatwave while protecting someone with paralytic abasia, I don't have coolers set up for anything but a freezer yet and I'm out of steel so I have to mine more, and then I have to build another watermill generator (or at least get the one I tried to build a week ago up and running), and then I have to deal with seemingly more common raids and everyone constantly running to the freezer to lower their heatstroke, but I eventually get everything ready and built...

and then I get a solar flare. So I have to build the passive cooler I apparently should have built immediately anyway.
The lesson here is "always have a simple/low-tech option available". Solar flares are too common to not plan for.

girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Oct 25, 2022

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

isndl posted:

Melee specialists still look kinda bad compared to shooting specialists, but on the other hand we can now create disposable brawlers with innate leaps. The two DLCs don't directly touch each other but there's a lot of indirect synergy that I'm excited to see shake out as people play around with it.

:hmmyes:



e: teeeeeeeeechnically it should not have super clotting but that particular gene is super, super good
e: you could pile on more bullshit skill negs and make it not have to eat very much, the floor is only 50% hunger and it only takes 5 negative points for that

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Oct 25, 2022

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
the authentic Numbers is updated to 1.4

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1414302321

Azhais
Feb 5, 2007
Switchblade Switcharoo

Flesh Forge posted:

:hmmyes:



e: teeeeeeeeechnically it should not have super clotting but that particular gene is super, super good
e: you could pile on more bullshit skill negs and make it not have to eat very much, the floor is only 50% hunger and it only takes 5 negative points for that

Yeah, just toss a psychite tea dependency on there. Or go juice. Or wakeup. Or all three.

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013

deep dish peat moss posted:

IMO ideologies should be somewhat hands-off to the player and develop organically over time. Not like the Fluid ideology is now but I mean, three of your colonists end up blind and so you develop the blindsight meme to cope. You survive a tough winter with the help of some animal friends that wandered in and got tamed at a lucky time, and you gain Rancher. It should all be automatic based on the things that happen to your colony instead of things that you choose.

I keep them turned off because I just don't have fun interacting with them as-is. If they were essentially just achievements that unlocked new themed rituals/buildings/clothes/etc that would be rad.

Eh, I think that this would distort the game far more and ultimately be far more annoying, because players who care about playing optimally would be railroaded to do certain things to unnaturally"unlock" the powerful roles/memes. I'm not sure if "a new colony, oh well, time to down the first raider and shoot at him in shifts for 3 days to unlock the Shooting Specialist for my ideology" is what you have in mind when thinking "natural development". Yes, players who play themed colonies would have their ideology develop naturally, but they can already do that by using fluid ideologies and self-control. :v:

In my opinion, ideologies being fully determined by the player is far more fitting Rimworld's nature as a sandbox.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



isndl posted:

Yeah, some of the restrictions with ideologions can be pretty frustrating but at the same time I can see why it was necessary, most players are always looking for optimal choices and even a simple "you can make anyone neutral about $subject for free, happy about it costs meme picks" would just result in players disabling all the bad thoughts they can because they can. Biotech's gene modding uses metabolic efficiency as a unifying mechanic which is really clever and is immensely helpful for opening up the design space since anything that looks too strong just costs more food, but I can't think of anything with similar potential for ideologies. If someone has any ideas I'd love to hear it.

Here's my pitch: You start much as things are now with Fluid Ideos, but you can change memes at any time once you're playing. However, memes should have scaling effects depending on a couple of factors, specifically A) How strongly your people believe in it, call this Zeal, and B) How faithfully your colony adheres to it, call this Devotion. Zeal would be managed primarily through two methods in turn, the first being art (think anything from Soviet propaganda posters to a relevant sculpture derived from the Ideo to propaganda movies) and the second being activities like Leader Speeches and celebrations. The more memes you have, the more effort you need to devote to keeping conviction in high.

How Devotedly you adhere meanwhile gives you some flexibility in how much it matters, and lets it change with time as your circumstances change. Precepts could be derived from this too; imagine a colony that is in principle vegan, but out of necessity you've eaten meat through the winter, so your ideo drifts towards a softer stance, and your precepts reflect that. A few years later things are much more secure and you've avoided animal products completely, and your precepts become stronger and reach a hardline stance.

Changing memes is as stated free but doing so hurts your Zeal, and your Devotion on the specific related precepts will start out low, so you're best off doing it cautiously.

You don't want Zeal and Devotion to get too out of line from each other because then you'll have pawns getting mad because you're basically an apostate or an authoritarian; your best bet is to either run a colony that puts a low priority on ideos and in turn gets few benefits, but also needs to invest less and has fewer risks over falling short, or you go heavy on an ideo that strongly defines your playstyle because you need to hold regular observances and adhere strictly to your precepts and the like, but doing so helps empower your colony in various ways.

Add in more ways for ideos to help you so that players have some incentives to pursue a strongly ideological colony. Things such as accessing higher benefits from precepts (Casual tunnelers get like +3 from a little spelunking, a tribe built around it gets +10 from living in an underground vault), special abilities (Tunnelers + Ranchers can tame bugs or something), have specialist roles gated behind or made more efficient by Devotion and Zeal, maybe special buildings become available, more effective conversion and recruitment options, all kinds of things like that.

Now that I wrote all that I'm having even more ideas, like a victory condition based on converting the world, proselytising to visitors or sending proselytes to other settlements, etc.

Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Oct 25, 2022

Griz
May 21, 2001


piL posted:

Common sense had a big bug, but it got squashed a couple of days ago. Are your Steam mods updating often and automatically? Not if you're like me! I don't really have a solution I recommend other than going through mods in order of last updated and reinstalling them until updates are behind your subscription date

deleting everything in the Rimworld workshop folder (mine is F:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\workshop\content\294100) and verifying files will force it to update all your mods.

deep dish peat moss
Jul 27, 2006

Lt. Lizard posted:

Eh, I think that this would distort the game far more and ultimately be far more annoying, because players who care about playing optimally would be railroaded to do certain things to unnaturally"unlock" the powerful roles/memes. I'm not sure if "a new colony, oh well, time to down the first raider and shoot at him in shifts for 3 days to unlock the Shooting Specialist for my ideology" is what you have in mind when thinking "natural development". Yes, players who play themed colonies would have their ideology develop naturally, but they can already do that by using fluid ideologies and self-control. :v:

In my opinion, ideologies being fully determined by the player is far more fitting Rimworld's nature as a sandbox.

What you're hitting on here is exactly why I play with Ideologies disabled: They don't do anything that players can't already do with some self control, outside of some obvious min/max choices like Tunneler to eat fungus. If I play with ideology enabled I feel compelled to make ideological decisions based purely on their utilitarian purpose, because the game lets me choose instead of choosing for me. I wouldn't min/max powergame ideology earning in an achievement-unlock style system because quite simply choosing my memes is busywork I don't want to deal with when I can enforce them myself without Ideologies enabled, I would rather they be unforeseen constraints I have to work with.

A good example of how the current system sucks for me personally in this regard is I feel compelled to make every single ritual an "any time" ritual and set the reward to a new colonist joins. It would be way cooler if I did a new ritual as a hail mary prayer because my colony was starving and then a blessing of food showed up, and then every year after that on the same date my colony gathered to do the same ritual and got a blessing of food. Or maybe instead it gave me animals and then we also became ranchers. But I would never actually create that ritual right now because it's (a) tied to a specific calendar date and (b) doesn't give a new recruit, and I would never actually choose Rancher right now because it doesn't really do anything for me except things that I could do anyway by just building an animal-centric colony.

e: Actually what I would really like (and I'm sure there's a mod for this) is a way to apply specific individual precepts to a colony with no ideology active, so you could still flag your colony as Cannibals or Fungus Eaters or Slavers or whatever without dealing with the rest of it But that's probably better done through the Xenotype system now.

deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Oct 25, 2022

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
the really lovely thing about melee specialist is their special ability makes then uncontrollable until it expires :negative:

death cob for cutie
Dec 30, 2006

dwarves won't delve no more
too much splatting down on Zot:4
The wild thing is that I never ever use the bonus of gaining a new recruit of my ideology. What if they're a pyromaniac, or an rear end in a top hat? I guess I could pack them off to an outpost, but...

Dire Lemming
Jan 19, 2016
If you don't coddle Nazis flat Earthers then you're literally as bad as them.

Flesh Forge posted:

the really lovely thing about melee specialist is their special ability makes then uncontrollable until it expires :negative:

Yeah, its pretty wild when you compare it to the shooting specialist's special ability. Shooting specialist gives everyone around them a lesser version of their own buff, melee specialist makes them a danger to everyone around them and means you can't use them for anything but suicide charges.

death cob for cutie posted:

The wild thing is that I never ever use the bonus of gaining a new recruit of my ideology. What if they're a pyromaniac, or an rear end in a top hat? I guess I could pack them off to an outpost, but...

Take them in then if they suck tell them to go punch a bear or something, the game scales up in difficulty the longer you go without losing a colonist and it will reset that.

Dire Lemming fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Oct 25, 2022

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

death cob for cutie posted:

The wild thing is that I never ever use the bonus of gaining a new recruit of my ideology. What if they're a pyromaniac, or an rear end in a top hat?

Then you can make a free couch out of them.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
It doesn't make them hit friendlies at least but yeah it's super unhelpful to make then uncontrollable. When it was released it made you unable to first aid them until it wore off, which usually meant they would die, but at lest Tynan relaxed on that specific thing. Surprised nobody ever did a more complex melee specialist revamp, there is one mod out there but it just buffs its numbers.
e: lol EIGHT YEARS IN and we finally have our first natural hookup.


:ssh: Gahyeon's cooking skill is zero

Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Oct 25, 2022

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isndl
May 2, 2012
I WON A CONTEST IN TG AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS CUSTOM TITLE

Ms Adequate posted:

Here's my pitch: [snip]

This sounds cool for monoculture colonies, but what about colonies with multiple ideologies?

Flesh Forge posted:

the really lovely thing about melee specialist is their special ability makes then uncontrollable until it expires :negative:

I wonder if this was a deliberate design so that players could just hit a button and not have to micro melee fighters in combat, since shooters will automatically look for new targets in range but a brawler will just stand there taking shots like an idiot when idle. Still quite frustrating that you can't toggle it though.

Flesh Forge posted:

e: lol EIGHT YEARS IN and we finally have our first natural hookup.


:ssh: Gahyeon's cooking skill is zero

I had a refugee show up with the Beautiful trait, hook up, got some lovin', Marriage is on!, and three days later the refugee leaves. :smith:

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