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ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

mikeraskol posted:

Though I will admit I approach this from a US practitioner perspective.

Really I would have thought they could have brought 2 cases, one in the US [non-Carlsen defendants] and one in Norway [Carlsen], to cover both bases.

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011

Salt Fish posted:

In fairness to myself I was evaluating that position from here:



Here I was thinking in my brain Qxb5 forces the queen trade because unless you move the queen the knight forks it on c6. Okay, so Qx, and then Qx, and then Nx, and now we're left in this position. The king's pawn cover is partially removed, the bishop is coming to a7, the A pawn is going to push, the rook is going to magically appear somewhere around a7 (?) and everything's fine.

Obviously in retrospect I sorta play around with it for 5-10 minutes and okay, I don't really have a prayer because the A and C pawns are so weak that both rooks have to babysit them, the D file is owned by black, and any threat to the black king is an illusion.

I would say I understand this specific position much better, but its also clear to me that I lack an actual foundation of being able to evaluate a position, and I sort of automatically distrust my own conclusions which leads to a lot of second guessing and recalculation during an actual game.

In addition to what Hand Knit posted (and HK is way better at chess than me so if any of this contradicts his advice, listen to him not to me), especially in puzzle situations but also in games when thinking about potential moves, always consider checks and captures. What possible checks and captures are there in the position? Do any of those checks or captures lead to your position improving? Do any of your opponent's potential checks or captures lead to your position worsening?

In the puzzle you posted, on white's move there is only one check (Nc6+) and two captures (Nxb5 and Qxb5). You already tried Qxb5 and it didn't lead to an advantage. White won back a pawn but traded queens, leaving black with more material and a better pawn structure. It seems like white might have an attack on the king, but as you saw, it turns out there's nothing there.

Try evaluating lines after Nc6+ and Nxb5 instead. Do either of those lines lead to a better position than you got after Qxb5?

T.C.
Feb 10, 2004

Believe.
https://twitter.com/openargs/status/1583703106260324352?s=20&t=wvAJPvkv-tYc51CuNSFEBw

Excellent, we're getting us some chess drama legal analysis

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

Salt Fish posted:

In fairness to myself I was evaluating that position from here:



Here I was thinking in my brain Qxb5 forces the queen trade because unless you move the queen the knight forks it on c6. Okay, so Qx, and then Qx, and then Nx, and now we're left in this position. The king's pawn cover is partially removed, the bishop is coming to a7, the A pawn is going to push, the rook is going to magically appear somewhere around a7 (?) and everything's fine.

Obviously in retrospect I sorta play around with it for 5-10 minutes and okay, I don't really have a prayer because the A and C pawns are so weak that both rooks have to babysit them, the D file is owned by black, and any threat to the black king is an illusion.

I would say I understand this specific position much better, but its also clear to me that I lack an actual foundation of being able to evaluate a position, and I sort of automatically distrust my own conclusions which leads to a lot of second guessing and recalculation during an actual game.

Nc6? I feel like I win black’s queen whether they play bxc6 or move the king.

Inferior Third Season
Jan 15, 2005

What are you using where the puzzles ask you to evaluate which side is better?

If I saw the initial position in a tactics puzzle, I would be able to figure it out. If I saw the position in a real game or were just asked which side is better with no context that it was actually a tactics puzzle, I'd likely miss it. Though this is mostly due to me being a bad player.

Hand Knit
Oct 24, 2005

Beer Loses more than a game Sunday ...
We lost our Captain, our Teammate, our Friend Kelly Calabro...
Rest in Peace my friend you will be greatly missed..

Inferior Third Season posted:

What are you using where the puzzles ask you to evaluate which side is better?

If I saw the initial position in a tactics puzzle, I would be able to figure it out. If I saw the position in a real game or were just asked which side is better with no context that it was actually a tactics puzzle, I'd likely miss it. Though this is mostly due to me being a bad player.

There's two related questions here. The first is evaluating the position at the end of a line when doing a puzzle, which is gonna be part of deciding if you have the right solution. The second is just about evaluating positions in general. They take different approaches because, in the case of lichess and chesscom puzzles, with rare exception, you know that you're supposed to be winning.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

VROOM VROOM posted:

I hope Hans sues them from the UK

Hans would fare no better in an UK court. Actual malice will still gently caress him.

quote:

Furthermore, to collect compensatory damages, a public official or public figure must prove actual malice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_defamation_law

Failing that the "honest opinion" defence will be pretty easy to use. They just need to argue that a reasonable person could hold their opinion. Given plenty of people think Hans is a cheater without any particular motivation to do so, this should be pretty easy.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Oct 22, 2022

Morrow
Oct 31, 2010
The thing is, a lot of people think Hans is a cheater because of Magnus's allegations. You have Hikaru's initial analysis of the game in question where he doesnt see anything fishy, and then you have Magnus's "not touching you" accusation, and then you have a huge swerve in public opinion.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Morrow posted:

The thing is, a lot of people think Hans is a cheater because of Magnus's allegations. You have Hikaru's initial analysis of the game in question where he doesnt see anything fishy, and then you have Magnus's "not touching you" accusation, and then you have a huge swerve in public opinion.

There's a lot of people who think e.g. that Hans cheated but not necessarily at the Sinquefield cup. The fact that Magnus and/or Hikaru influenced opinion isn't relevant to the defense - the point is that a normal person *can* believe Hans is a cheater independent of "because Magnus/Hikaru thought so".

They can just pick all the guys going "did Hans cheat online? yes. Did he do it OTB? maybe. Did Magnus handle this horribly and is a sore loser? yes" to show that even people who hate Magnus can entertain the idea that Hans cheated.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Oct 22, 2022

grah
Jul 26, 2007
brainsss

Morrow posted:

The thing is, a lot of people think Hans is a cheater because of Magnus's allegations. You have Hikaru's initial analysis of the game in question where he doesnt see anything fishy, and then you have Magnus's "not touching you" accusation, and then you have a huge swerve in public opinion.

Arguably people think he's a cheater because he publically admitted to cheating a bunch. Not a lawyer but it feels really tough to claim it is malicious slander to call you a cheater when you have demonstrably cheated on at the very least two occasions.

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb

Inferior Third Season posted:

What are you using where the puzzles ask you to evaluate which side is better?

If I saw the initial position in a tactics puzzle, I would be able to figure it out. If I saw the position in a real game or were just asked which side is better with no context that it was actually a tactics puzzle, I'd likely miss it. Though this is mostly due to me being a bad player.

I found some!

https://chessevaluationtraining.com/

This isn't the exact same site as I had been using, but this was what I was looking for.

edit: example puzzle

Salt Fish fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 22, 2022

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



There's no way Niemann wins, but there's a chance that Chess.com decides that discovery would hurt their reputation, and they give him six figures to go away. I'm sure his lawyer is aware of this.

Here's a funny situation I've never seen before, what's the winning move for black?



Bg5 and white's rook is trapped.

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb

Chamale posted:

There's no way Niemann wins, but there's a chance that Chess.com decides that discovery would hurt their reputation, and they give him six figures to go away. I'm sure his lawyer is aware of this.

Here's a funny situation I've never seen before, what's the winning move for black?



Bg5 and white's rook is trapped.

lol this is the kind of funny idea I come up with in every puzzle and its never right.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



Salt Fish posted:

lol this is the kind of funny idea I come up with in every puzzle and its never right.

It's such a specific situation but I'll know to look out for it now. Reminds me of a crab trap.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Salt Fish posted:

I found some!

https://chessevaluationtraining.com/

This isn't the exact same site as I had been using, but this was what I was looking for.

edit: example puzzle



Wow, it's amazing how bad I'm at this.

Here two I had wrong at first glance. After learning that I was wrong I could understand why, but positioning is clearly not my strength.

neaden
Nov 4, 2012

A changer of ways
I remember resigning once, doing the computer analysis and finding I had this 4 move forced checkmate I didn't see on the board, not even that complicated of one.

Maugrim
Feb 16, 2011

I eat your face

Walh Hara posted:

Wow, it's amazing how bad I'm at this.

Here two I had wrong at first glance. After learning that I was wrong I could understand why, but positioning is clearly not my strength.



First one I’d guess black stronger - more minor pieces developed, white’s king is looking a bit vulnerable, black has more open lines for their bishop and queen, and only 2 pawn islands vs 3

Second one is harder for me but my guess would be black again? That backward pawn on f3 is a juicy target

Maugrim fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 22, 2022

Salt Fish
Sep 11, 2003

Cybernetic Crumb
I did 10 of those puzzles in about 30 minutes and got 7/10. Since there are only 2 choices, this has a 17% chance of having happened by chance. (lol)

They're actually super fun though.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Maugrim posted:

First one I’d guess black stronger - more minor pieces developed, white’s king is looking a bit vulnerable, black has more open lines for their bishop and queen, and only 2 pawn islands vs 3

Second one is harder for me but my guess would be black again? That backward pawn on f3 is a juicy target

One correct, one wrong.

In the first puzzle: Apparently after gxf4 white has a very decent advantage because of the much better center control by the pawns. I didn't realize this either as I assumed you'd want to develop the bishop with Bxf4, but that would be a blunder according to lichess.

edit: one thing I didn't realize about the other puzzle:
black's best move is e4, after which the knight on c5 has no good mvoes and white's best counter reply is actually to give up the knight and just play Nge7.

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Oct 23, 2022

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

I love putting pieces in jail. Like when someone gets greedy snapping up your a or h pawn with their bishop and then you simply advance your g or b pawn and put the bishop in jail.

T.C.
Feb 10, 2004

Believe.

neaden posted:

I remember resigning once, doing the computer analysis and finding I had this 4 move forced checkmate I didn't see on the board, not even that complicated of one.

Well, I guess you can feel good about the fact that your opponent maybe got to have one of those games where they know they are hosed, are waiting for the shoe to drop and then the other guy sits on the clock for a minute confused and resigns for no apparent reason.

The thing I get from the occasional game with an actual friend vs internet matchups is a reminder that I tend to be seeing a very different game than my opponent is seeing half the time

Maugrim
Feb 16, 2011

I eat your face

Zwabu posted:

I love putting pieces in jail. Like when someone gets greedy snapping up your a or h pawn with their bishop and then you simply advance your g or b pawn and put the bishop in jail.

That was done to me once in a goon game and was definitely a “whoops, lesson learned” moment. Won’t fall for it again!

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

Even though this puzzle wasn't rated really highly, I like it.

Had to spend a long time looking at it because it hit one of my common blind spots - White looks like they can defend the combination, but there is a critical pin that turns White's defense into smoke and mirrors.

Black to move and win:

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


Zwabu posted:

Even though this puzzle wasn't rated really highly, I like it.

Had to spend a long time looking at it because it hit one of my common blind spots - White looks like they can defend the combination, but there is a critical pin that turns White's defense into smoke and mirrors.

Black to move and win:


im bad at these but ..Ra1+ Kxa1 Qxa3+ Kb1 Qxb2 0-1?

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

jesus WEP posted:

im bad at these but ..Ra1+ Kxa1 Qxa3+ Kb1 Qxb2 0-1?

Yeah. I had a hard time seeing that the b pawn is pinned after Kxa1 so I kept discarding that line until something clicked. Puzzles are useful for identifying those kind of blind spots in yourself, that is a frequent theme that I miss in puzzles so it's good for me to learn and be more vigilant for that theme to appear in positions.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Zwabu posted:

Even though this puzzle wasn't rated really highly, I like it.

Had to spend a long time looking at it because it hit one of my common blind spots - White looks like they can defend the combination, but there is a critical pin that turns White's defense into smoke and mirrors.

Black to move and win:



I looked at the spoiler, but Ra1+, Kxa1, Qxa7++ because the pawn is pinned?

1024x768
Oct 25, 2004

oh god
I'm in my mid-thirties and just took and interest in chess in the last four months or so. Until June this year I probably played fewer than 10 games of chess in my entire life. I managed to make my way up to ~1000 on chess.com mostly by doing some puzzles daily and watching the Chessbrah Building Habits series. I'm interested in improving my game further, and I know that most improvement will be found in tactics training, but I often feel a little clueless about how to develop my pieces, developing a mid-game strategy, and playing with a plan in general. Moves that are seen as natural or intutitive to experienced players often seem sort of random to me. The concept of positional play is neat, but I don't really know where to start. I'd really like to find a coach to help me come up with a plan to improve. Any advice for how to pick one? There are a billion options on chess.com.

sleppy
Dec 25, 2008

Admiral Ray posted:

Just to make it clear, this is the game he mentioned.

Zwabu
Aug 7, 2006

Captain Foo posted:

I looked at the spoiler, but Ra1+, Kxa1, Qxa7++ because the pawn is pinned?

Yes.

Chamale
Jul 11, 2010

I'm helping!



What would chess be like if we implemented Elongated Musk's suggestions? 16x16 grid, multiple players, capturing sufficient pieces lets you promote pawns into either a queen or a knook. I suspect a lot of the tactics would go away, and it turns into a game of managing alliances.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


:toot:

fisting by many
Dec 25, 2009



1024x768 posted:

I'm in my mid-thirties and just took and interest in chess in the last four months or so. Until June this year I probably played fewer than 10 games of chess in my entire life. I managed to make my way up to ~1000 on chess.com mostly by doing some puzzles daily and watching the Chessbrah Building Habits series. I'm interested in improving my game further, and I know that most improvement will be found in tactics training, but I often feel a little clueless about how to develop my pieces, developing a mid-game strategy, and playing with a plan in general. Moves that are seen as natural or intutitive to experienced players often seem sort of random to me. The concept of positional play is neat, but I don't really know where to start. I'd really like to find a coach to help me come up with a plan to improve. Any advice for how to pick one? There are a billion options on chess.com.

Daniel Naroditsky's speedrun series. There are three, each with different time settings. I'm going through the Master Class (10 minute games) and finding it very informative. There is enough time for him to explain the position and his plan at any point. I agree it's hard to find chess content that explains mid-game and planning well.

1024x768
Oct 25, 2004

oh god

fisting by many posted:

Daniel Naroditsky's speedrun series. There are three, each with different time settings. I'm going through the Master Class (10 minute games) and finding it very informative. There is enough time for him to explain the position and his plan at any point. I agree it's hard to find chess content that explains mid-game and planning well.

Haven't watched these yet and I definitely will. Thank you!

I am pretty determined to find a coach as well though -- anyone here have any leads?

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

What did you say the strategy was?
Isn't blind chess a thing where you don't get to see your opponent's pieces and end up trying to get info by making captures/moves you aren't sure will be legal?

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

Chamale posted:

What would chess be like if we implemented Elongated Musk's suggestions? 16x16 grid, multiple players, capturing sufficient pieces lets you promote pawns into either a queen or a knook. I suspect a lot of the tactics would go away, and it turns into a game of managing alliances.

heres the beta version if ur curious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJmlDPamgso

Chewbaccanator
Apr 7, 2010
Musk should just play starcraft and get his rear end beat there instead of over the chess board

MrMojok
Jan 28, 2011

I haven’t played a game of chess or even looked at a chess position in about five years, and I am willing to bet any amount of money I could give knight odds and kick his loving rear end

tanglewood1420
Oct 28, 2010

The importance of this mission cannot be overemphasized
You'd think someone who considers himself intelligent could work out that the reason Chess is so interesting is precisely because it's a perfect information game.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


Elon dumb though

Chamale posted:

What would chess be like if we implemented Elongated Musk's suggestions? 16x16 grid, multiple players, capturing sufficient pieces lets you promote pawns into either a queen or a knook. I suspect a lot of the tactics would go away, and it turns into a game of managing alliances.

noted knook reference fellow anarchy chess reader

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vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
imagining a tech tree for chess: you start with only pawns and they can only move one square, after five moves you can choose to unlock either knights or bishops, or you can go down the pawn tree and unlock the double first move. To unlock en passant you have to have both the double pawn move and knights unlocked. Either knights or bishops lets you unlock rooks, and once you've unlocked rooks you can unlock your queen or research the ability to castle

bishops, rooks, and queen all start only able to move up to two squares and you have to research the ability for them to travel the whole board at once

endgame tech: unlock the ability for your queen to also move like a knight

pawns start out without the ability to promote, you have o research that too

thank you elon this is such a better game

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