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Arson Daily
Aug 11, 2003

So like is that an NOS part or can you still get that new from Honda?

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Toe Rag
Aug 29, 2005

I rode back from the track 75 miles in a straight line.



Kind of interesting to see how much (or little) of the tire is on the ground at any time. It looks like maybe 20%.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

That wear pattern is hilarious

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


I gotta find a good place for a track day in AZ.

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!
Air-cooled crew on a cooler, foggy Portland morning.

RightClickSaveAs
Mar 1, 2001

Tiny animals under glass... Smaller than sand...


Russian Bear posted:

I gotta find a good place for a track day in AZ.
It's unfortunately sparse especially considering we have such great weather most of the year. Eastern Canada has more tracks than us! Inde Motorsport Ranch is a fantastic track in Willcox, but they don't do many public track day events and the ones they do are pricey.

Arizona Motorsport Park in the Phoenix west valley has regular Sunday track days during the winter, it's a smallish track but the public prices are reasonable. I can also ride to it without much trouble, especially since my bike and skill level is nothing special so I don't need specific equipment to haul there. There's also a new one called Atessa in Casa Grande I haven't been to yet. It's the same distance as AMP but just in the other direction :rip:

Toe Rag
Aug 29, 2005

RightClickSaveAs posted:

I can also ride to it without much trouble, especially since my bike and skill level is nothing special so I don't need specific equipment to haul there.

Yeah this was a nice experience. This track I went to is actually 250mi from where I live, which is way too far to ride, so I am staying "nearby" in a town 75mi instead. I put some oil and small tools into a tail bag and off I went. The nearest track to me is only 35mi away. Yeah, if you crash you're kind of boned, but you can always call a tow truck (or maybe someone will haul it back for you? :pray:). The money I'd save not renting a truck/van, and time crunch stress I'd avoid, would make it worth it. I guess it would depend on how expensive the garage rental is. I don't think it's that expensive if you're in a shared garage, maybe $35-50? I bought my gas at the track. I don't remember the exact price, but our gas is floating around $7/gal right now, and it wasn't much off. Again, overpaying a couple bucks for gas (I use 4-5gal per day) is nothing compared to $150-180 for a rental.

yummycheese
Mar 28, 2004

When I lived in phoenix. I was traveling all the way to arroyo secco in new mexico for track time. quite the trip but young me was pretty dumb and wanted cheap track days.

I do have fond memories of that place and it was pretty tight nit crew of riders who were pretty helpful to me. dumb 20 something who had just bought a bike and wanted to ride gud.

Carteret
Nov 10, 2012


I washed my generic pedestrian motorcycle (I still love it)




(the GT4 isn't mine) :(

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

The bike's way more fun anyway

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

yeah honestly i kinda quit being interested in fast cars when i got into motorcycles.

oh, your porsche goes 0-60 in 4.5 seconds? and it cost how much? and needs how many horsepower??

there are still some exotic cars that i would love to own (original NSX :swoon:) but i no longer care about how fast my car can go or which manufacturer has the most power or whatever. and none of the new exotics are particularly cool to me. they're just cars

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Sitting in a chair looking at a wraparound screen of stuff zooming past while vroom noises come from somewhere nearby is a video game imo

RightClickSaveAs
Mar 1, 2001

Tiny animals under glass... Smaller than sand...


Toe Rag posted:

Yeah this was a nice experience. This track I went to is actually 250mi from where I live, which is way too far to ride, so I am staying "nearby" in a town 75mi instead. I put some oil and small tools into a tail bag and off I went. The nearest track to me is only 35mi away. Yeah, if you crash you're kind of boned, but you can always call a tow truck (or maybe someone will haul it back for you? :pray:). The money I'd save not renting a truck/van, and time crunch stress I'd avoid, would make it worth it. I guess it would depend on how expensive the garage rental is. I don't think it's that expensive if you're in a shared garage, maybe $35-50? I bought my gas at the track. I don't remember the exact price, but our gas is floating around $7/gal right now, and it wasn't much off. Again, overpaying a couple bucks for gas (I use 4-5gal per day) is nothing compared to $150-180 for a rental.
I rented a van once and it was such a pain I've just ridden to the track every time since, it's only about 50 miles. Plus on the Ninja 400 I get around 50 miles/gallon so definitely cheaper than filling up a motorcycle hauler.

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


RightClickSaveAs posted:

It's unfortunately sparse especially considering we have such great weather most of the year. Eastern Canada has more tracks than us! Inde Motorsport Ranch is a fantastic track in Willcox, but they don't do many public track day events and the ones they do are pricey.

Arizona Motorsport Park in the Phoenix west valley has regular Sunday track days during the winter, it's a smallish track but the public prices are reasonable. I can also ride to it without much trouble, especially since my bike and skill level is nothing special so I don't need specific equipment to haul there. There's also a new one called Atessa in Casa Grande I haven't been to yet. It's the same distance as AMP but just in the other direction :rip:

I might check out AZ Motorsports Park, my in-laws live in Phoenix so I could go up the day before and just ride over.

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

Carteret posted:

I washed my generic pedestrian motorcycle (I still love it)




(the GT4 isn't mine) :(

Looks great. Love the coloured wheels.

Nice weather this week so I took the blade to work with a little detour along the lake road, such an amazing machine.

RightClickSaveAs
Mar 1, 2001

Tiny animals under glass... Smaller than sand...


knox_harrington posted:

Looks great. Love the coloured wheels.

Nice weather this week so I took the blade to work with a little detour along the lake road, such an amazing machine.


Nice! That looks like showroom lighting, the black accenting really pops.

Got the CBR600RR out in the sunshine a few times for some pictures. Riding season is here :getin:

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
Saw these twins at bike night. Know nothing about them but they looked pretty neat.

busalover
Sep 12, 2020
Enjoying a sunny Autumn day with the Twin (not calling it "Queen", that's kinda cringe)

Russian Bear
Dec 26, 2007


busalover posted:

Enjoying a sunny Autumn day with the Twin (not calling it "Queen", that's kinda cringe)



This color scheme is soooo :krad:

knox_harrington
Feb 18, 2011

Running no point.

busalover posted:

Enjoying a sunny Autumn day with the Twin (not calling it "Queen", that's kinda cringe)



Yup same

Rusty
Sep 28, 2001
Dinosaur Gum
it's never ending summer in Portland this year, went to the pittock mansion and crossed a bunch of bridges. People wouldn't move so I couldn't frame my bike with the actual mansion though. :(

This bike has been a joy, probably won't be riding in the rain, but I got a good 3k miles in 4 months, and it's been fun.

echomadman
Aug 24, 2004

Nap Ghost

Toe Rag posted:

Did you take this picture?

Not me, my buddy sent it from a local bike dealers place he was in.
There's a mezzanine full of 250cc 2stroke race bikes too.

ought ten
Feb 6, 2004

We’re getting the gorgeous fall weather too. Might have been my last day for the season. Embarrassingly it was also one of my first. Don’t zoom in, I think there are still cobwebs on the spokes.

Dog Case
Oct 7, 2003

Heeelp meee... prevent wildfires
https://twitter.com/ShaunMcE/status/1583762015335874560

TotalLossBrain
Oct 20, 2010

Hier graben!
Weather was nice, put some miles on the VStrom, got a fish sandwich and a beer.



TotalLossBrain fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 23, 2022

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

Today we're going to learn about a little thing called diminishing returns

Or

The ktm curse

Or

How Honda have fallen

Guy comes in with a 2020 crf450, says the top end appears to be hosed at less than 100 hours. At this point I discover that Honda have altered their unicam head design.

Previously, they used a SOHC layout wherein two valves are operated by one big rocker arm with one honking huge roller and cam lobe in the middle, the other two by conventional individual lifters directly under the lobes thusly:



Now, it appears they have changed to a new design wherein the one big rocker arm has been split into two individual ones running on very narrow lobes, each with an individual roller. Additionally, the other two valves are now running finger followers instead of being actuated directly. Handy comparo diagram:



Why did they do this? Because dirt bike publications have gotten into the habit of doing dyno tests on their 450 group tests and posting the results. Typically, KTM win these by a tiny margin and this is enough to sway people into buying orange.

This isn't because they have some kind of fundamental advantage in engine design; the ICE is an extremely mature technology and making gains by being smarter stopped being a thing decades ago. They do it by making catastrophic sacrifices in longevity in exchange for marginal gains, something I've posted about at length. It makes sales, what can I say. Presumably at this point Honda have decided the marginal gains must be pursued for market reasons to lift flagging sales. This is the result:


Good roller


Bad roller

The previous fairly robust design, where the load was spread across a very wide roller, has been replaced by a more stressed design where the load is put through very skinny rollers that spin comparatively fast for their width. Additionally, they have a much narrower 'axle' comparative to their diameter, this means there is far more tendency for the roller to wobble side to side within the scope allowed by the oil clearance, which is both necessary and unavoidable. What's happened here is one roller's internal bearing seized, the roller promptly overheated and exploded, sending fragments throughout the motor.

The purpose of making these changes is to reduce frictional losses in the valve train, we're talking fractions of a percent in terms of dyno gains. Larger gains can be had in the switch to a finger follower design on the intake valves:


Good follower


Bad follower

The big gain is that finger followers make it possible to have a much more aggressive opening profile to the cam lobe (it's very visible in the comparison diagram), this makes it possible to have a longer cam duration without necessarily increasing overlap, this boosts top end performance without sacrificing mid-range too much and is overall a good thing.

Where they've gone wrong here is in searching for those diminishing gains by covering the rubbing surfaces of the arms with Diamond Like Carbon coating. DLC is an extremely hard substance, the surface hardness is much greater than the hardest steel alloy. It is also very slippery, a place you often see it is on fork stanchions because it reduces fork stiction. But a fork stanchion runs on sacrificial graphite coated copper bushings. A rocker arm runs on a hardened steel shim:



Normally, the shim and rocker surface are of pretty much equal hardness, so they just sort beat at each other and the energy is shared between them like a hammer hitting an anvil. In this case, the DLC is considerably harder than the steel shim, so the shim starts getting pounded away until the hardened surface cracks up and shatters, at that point the general fuckedness and lack of proper oil film destroys the DLC on the rocker. All for a fraction of a horsepower gain for a dyno test for a magazine.

Honda have been sucked into an arms race with morons imo.

Another thought: all the popular, previously very reliable Japanese literbike engines have recently switched to DLC coated finger follower designs for power and emissions reasons. I expect it'll take a couple of years to see these kinds of failures, because the individual parts are less stressed than they are on a dirt bike, but they will happen, it's unavoidable unless someone starts making DLC coated valve shims.

Strife
Apr 20, 2001

What the hell are YOU?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpCsETGJgxg

Pretty rad lil scoot, brought to you by a British man in a shed.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

That is absolutely lovely. The radiator crammed up inside the mudguard is just :discourse:

HenryJLittlefinger
Jan 31, 2010

stomp clap



I'm assuming that all advances in performance are completely undetectable to the consumer, and the only end user to whom they would be beneficial (enduro racers) tune their machines so much that this particular advance is a drop in the bucket?

cursedshitbox
May 20, 2012

Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.



Fun Shoe

Slavvy posted:


2020 crf450


Wow that is KTM as gently caress. Maybe even Royal Enfield.


Purely trashing a good design for spread sheet racers.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

HenryJLittlefinger posted:

I'm assuming that all advances in performance are completely undetectable to the consumer, and the only end user to whom they would be beneficial (enduro racers) tune their machines so much that this particular advance is a drop in the bucket?

Detectable by your butt almost certainly not

Detectable by motocross magazine's dyno definitely yes

cursedshitbox posted:

Purely trashing a good design for spread sheet racers.

GriszledMelkaba
Sep 4, 2003


Slavvy posted:

it's unavoidable unless someone starts making DLC coated valve shims.

Mmmm $500 shim kits

Geekboy
Aug 21, 2005

Now that's what I call a geekMAN!

Strife posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpCsETGJgxg

Pretty rad lil scoot, brought to you by a British man in a shed.

This is so loving cool.

Gorson
Aug 29, 2014


Good write-up. This is tragic, and it's going to keep happening. Horsepower is as meaningless to reality as the Dow Jones Industrial Average, but at the same time it has always been the number we quickly use to gauge engine performance. HP drives sales, so this is what we get.

Don't chase the loving Germans, you'll wind up doing German things. I thought Japan had learned that. RIP Honda. Caught ill around the turn of the century and died sometime after.

Nidhg00670000
Mar 26, 2010

We're in the pipe, five by five.
Grimey Drawer

Gorson posted:

Don't chase the loving Germans, you'll wind up doing German things. I thought Japan had learned that. RIP Honda. Caught ill around the turn of the century and died sometime after.

Austrians.

Steakandchips
Apr 30, 2009

Slavvy posted:

Red becoming more Orange.

drat it Honda.

RightClickSaveAs
Mar 1, 2001

Tiny animals under glass... Smaller than sand...


Lol drat, glad my first new-er Honda is an essentially obsolete bike they haven't touched the internals of since like 2008 (CBR600RR) :hehe:

Toe Rag
Aug 29, 2005


Germany still paying for Austrians’ crimes.

Ulf
Jul 15, 2001

FOUR COLORS
ONE LOVE
Nap Ghost
Anschluss? Nein danke!

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Toe Rag
Aug 29, 2005

Do NOT steal my bike!!!

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