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Gripweed posted:Sure Moonstar and Thunderbird and Warpath are all created in the stereotypical image of "an Indian" but they also talk in full sentences and have character motivations and such. And there's Forge right there who, aside from the headband, isn't a stereotypical Native American at all Forge does delve into native mysticism from time to time. I don’t have a full opinion on Gateway, I can imagine there are some aboriginal thoughts out there on the subject.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:00
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Isn't Bishop (and Shard, I guess) related to Gateway?
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Oct 26, 2022 16:01
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It can be a minefield. I think Hickman has said he stays away from writing Black characters because he's worried about accidentally writing stereotypes. Not writing stereotypes is good, but also representation is good, and part of that means not writing all characters as White guys with different skins. I prefer Manifold, despite the name.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:01
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Gripweed posted:Sure Moonstar and Thunderbird and Warpath are all created in the stereotypical image of "an Indian" but they also talk in full sentences and have character motivations and such. And there's Forge right there who, aside from the headband, isn't a stereotypical Native American at all Dani, John, and Jimmy have also had the advantage of years of character growth and development, including occasionally being written by indigenous writers, which is something Gateway has never been afforded. If Gateway has ever even spoken, outside of the AoA version, it's been a small handful of times. He's really more a plot device than a character, which is absolutely a problem, even his being Bishop's great-grandfather is more a prop for Bishop than anything about him. He's a character I have a lot of affection for because I loving love the Australia era but it would be nice to see him better served. Forge is a really interesting case because his Cheyenne heritage is important but that's substantially in the context of the ways he's rejected the mysticism he was supposed to be focused on. Also interesting that in almost 40 years of publication, he doesn't have a non-codename which is another obfuscation of his heritage maybe. I don't have a larger point there really, I've just always been a fan of Forge and love talking about him. edit: StumblyWumbly posted:It can be a minefield. I think Hickman has said he stays away from writing Black characters because he's worried about accidentally writing stereotypes. Not writing stereotypes is good, but also representation is good, and part of that means not writing all characters as White guys with different skins. Ta-Nehisi Coates has commented that he believes Bendis deserves an NAACP award for making Luke Cage matter, wanting to avoid stereotyping is good but not an excuse for just writing white people. rantmo fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Oct 26, 2022 |
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Oct 26, 2022 16:14
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Gripweed posted:He's Marvel's most prominent aboriginal Australian character and he never talks, only wears a loincloth, is very mysterious and spiritual, he uses a bullroarer to make his powers go, and I've seen him drawn a lot with exaggerated proportions that make him seem more like a leprechaun than a human. You raise some good points. I think Claremont was trying something different and didn't have racist intentions but due to when he was introduced and subsequent writers, he hasn't gotten to move very far from where he started.
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Oct 26, 2022 16:53
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Dawgstar posted:Isn't Bishop (and Shard, I guess) related to Gateway? Literally read this issue the other day. In Claremont’s X-Treme X-Men it is revealed Gateway is Bishop’s great-grandfather.
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Oct 26, 2022 18:36
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Brocktoon posted:Literally read this issue the other day. In Claremont’s X-Treme X-Men it is revealed Gateway is Bishop’s great-grandfather. Come to think of it, Claremont made a consistent point in that book of establishing that Bishop was an aborigine, but I'm not sure if any other writer ever acknowledged that. It didn't help that Bishop proceeded to spend the better part of the next 20 years or so on a heel turn, between the first Civil War and that whole bit where he was trying to murder Hope.
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Oct 26, 2022 18:48
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rantmo posted:Ta-Nehisi Coates has commented that he believes Bendis deserves an NAACP award for making Luke Cage matter, wanting to avoid stereotyping is good but not an excuse for just writing white people. Yeah, to be clear I don't agree with Hickman and I think writers should put in the work to make realistic, diverse characters. Just showing the opposite extreme from "Let's increase diversity by adding stereotypes",
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Oct 26, 2022 19:30
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I don't know much about Gateway, but Manifold is a new favorite after Ewing wrote him in Sword.
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Oct 26, 2022 19:57
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hickman fuckin' loves using sunspot, though?
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Oct 26, 2022 20:24
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Marvel just has a really, really, *really* bad track record with non-American heroes. I always point out that big meeting of the world’s super heroes T’Challa called early on in Aaron’s Avengers and it was filled with a Chinese hive-mind character, a stoic native shaman and Arabian Knight. The most prominent Irish heroes that I can think of are Banshee (who started off with the Irish gorilla face from 1800s British tabloids) and the girl whose power was luck (before she became an alcoholic and broke her leg). Half of the European heroes are just Person In Knight Armor. Like I get that there’s a segment of Americans that will unironically cheer breathlessly for the drunken Russian were-bear but whenever you read this poo poo as a non-American it really gets old fast when people just point to T’Challa or Sunspot and go “But see? We fixed it!”
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Oct 26, 2022 20:45
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Between Nuke and Hate-Monger they got most of America covered.
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Oct 26, 2022 20:50
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:hickman fuckin' loves using sunspot, though? Why wouldn't you put your favorite childhood characters in everything if you are able to? Sunspot and Cannonball for life.
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Oct 26, 2022 20:52
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Nilbop posted:Marvel just has a really, really, *really* bad track record with non-American heroes. I always point out that big meeting of the world’s super heroes T’Challa called early on in Aaron’s Avengers and it was filled with a Chinese hive-mind character, a stoic native shaman and Arabian Knight. The most prominent Irish heroes that I can think of are Banshee (who started off with the Irish gorilla face from 1800s British tabloids) and the girl whose power was luck (before she became an alcoholic and broke her leg). Half of the European heroes are just Person In Knight Armor. Fair, but at the same time the most popular X-Men are mostly international heroes. Be nice if they ever got the opportunity to hang out in their home countries though.
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Oct 26, 2022 21:21
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Is Clea gonna bang a dead guy? That's messed up.
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Oct 26, 2022 23:04
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:hickman fuckin' loves using sunspot, though? I don't remember if he created Manifold, or just fleshed him out in Secret Warriors. And he made Black Panther a huge deal in his Fantastic Four and Avengers.
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Oct 27, 2022 05:02
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Open Marriage Night posted:I don't remember if he created Manifold, or just fleshed him out in Secret Warriors. he co-created Manifold with Bendis
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Oct 27, 2022 06:01
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Just as I'd accepted the She-Hulk comic was a chill, romance story without the usual super hero plots.... BAM! Plot progression! Really oddly paced comic, but I don't regret sticking it out so far. Curious to see where it goes next.
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Nov 3, 2022 21:53
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Gripweed posted:Sure Moonstar and Thunderbird and Warpath are all created in the stereotypical image of "an Indian" but they also talk in full sentences and have character motivations and such. And there's Forge right there who, aside from the headband, isn't a stereotypical Native American at all Honestly, at the time of his introduction, Forge was actually fairly stereotypical - it's just that it was a different stereotype, as the "Native American who left the rez because being poor sucks, joined the Army, got sent to 'Nam, and today is struggling to reconcile his worldly lifestyle with the teachings he grew up with" was a fairly common fictional trope at the time; my hunch is that it ties back to the whole image people had of Native Americans emigrating to NYC and working to build a bunch of skyscrapers, which was a bit of a cultural touchstone in the US Northeast for a good long while, but that just might be me, I'm not sure. Point is, sometimes characters are very much a trope when they're introduced but that trope falls out of use later
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Nov 4, 2022 00:26
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Point is, sometimes characters are very much a trope when they're introduced but that trope falls out of use later The Thing is basically the last survivor of the 'street-smart tough Jewish kid from the Bronx' stereotype.
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Nov 4, 2022 04:25
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Angry Salami posted:The Thing is basically the last survivor of the 'street-smart tough Jewish kid from the Bronx' stereotype. what about Bernie Sanders?
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Nov 4, 2022 06:13
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Cloks posted:what about Bernie Sanders? He's from Brooklyn.
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Nov 4, 2022 06:54
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Anyone read new Secret Invasion comic? Big fan of North, but forgot he was writing this one.
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Nov 4, 2022 15:31
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glitchwraith posted:Just as I'd accepted the She-Hulk comic was a chill, romance story without the usual super hero plots.... BAM! Plot progression! Really oddly paced comic, but I don't regret sticking it out so far. Curious to see where it goes next. Another fine issue, but the inclusion of Victor and Doombot does pour salt in the Runaways wound... Angry Salami posted:The Thing is basically the last survivor of the 'street-smart tough Jewish kid from the Bronx' stereotype. Hellboy? The Goon? Neither of them are Jewish but they both feel like takes on Ben Grimm in ways that, say, Concrete, does not.
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Nov 4, 2022 18:35
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Inkspot posted:Another fine issue, but the inclusion of Victor and Doombot does pour salt in the Runaways wound... I need to go back to that Runaways run. Seemed decent from what little I had read and heard about it.
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Nov 4, 2022 19:15
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Easily the best since BKV/Alphona. If you don't mind She-Hulk's meandering pace in favor of strong character moments, you'll love it. If you don't mind that it peters out before actually sticking any kind of landing, like every single run since BKV/Alphona and... I suppose... Whedon... then you'll really love it.
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Nov 4, 2022 21:56
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Apparently Ryan North is writing a new secret invasion story. I guess every live action adaption needs a tie-in in the comics universe which retreats the ground. Those Skrulls are kind of bad at this whole impersonation thing. What did they expect to happen when they impersonated Nick Fury to talk to Maria Hill? Those two probably share an assortment of specialized and rotating verification codes for every situation they might see each other ranging from meeting with the president to a karaoke bar crawl. Admit ably Maria is a overconfident with regards to that, but it certainly wasn't framed as if that was the intended outcome either. That bit of stupidity aside (there was a chance it could work.) it seems like a cool start of a series. Who do you guys think is the Avengers imposter?
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Nov 4, 2022 22:28
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cant cook creole bream posted:That bit of stupidity aside (there was a chance it could work.) it seems like a cool start of a series. Who do you guys think is the Avengers imposter? Probably Iron Man, since he tells everyone to take five for no reason at all other than to monologue in front of a mirror.
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Nov 5, 2022 16:28
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I thought Iron Man was a hologram.
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Nov 5, 2022 18:18
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Gripweed posted:I thought Iron Man was a hologram.
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Nov 5, 2022 19:57
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cant cook creole bream posted:I think that's about three years ago now. oh he got better?
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Nov 6, 2022 03:48
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Gripweed posted:oh he got better? It is comics, after all. It turns out that he revived himself with Science!™ But made it clear that he totally can't do that again for reasons so we can all pretend that death actually matters at all (for non-mutants) Then had an existential crisis for a bit because he's apparently basically a clone? But that was a really bad run so I don't like to think about it. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Nov 6, 2022 |
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Nov 6, 2022 04:00
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Are his parents still his parents or was that a fever dream I had? Like I thought his dad was still Howard Stark until I read … I think it was Invincible Iron Man? And it turned out his dad wasn’t his dad and his mom was alive and she was the keen business mogul and it was all very comic book nonsensy feeling.
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Nov 6, 2022 04:19
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nah, he's still secretly adopted. it doesn't really matter much now.
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Nov 6, 2022 05:02
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Has there been a good Iron Man run since Matt Fraction?
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Nov 6, 2022 05:35
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hadji murad posted:Has there been a good Iron Man run since Matt Fraction? Bendis was decent, and the recent Cantwell run was fun at the start at least. I stopped reading it after issue sixish, but not for any fault of the comic.
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Nov 6, 2022 05:39
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Gillen's is not bad but it's not his best work, and I liked the Cantwell series very much.
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Nov 6, 2022 06:12
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the Cantwell run was fairly entertaining, and co-starred Patsy Walker
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Nov 6, 2022 06:12
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I mean, Tony did recently take Frog Man into space. So there's that at least
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Nov 6, 2022 07:03
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Skwirl posted:Bendis was decent, and the recent Cantwell run was fun at the start at least. I stopped reading it after issue sixish, but not for any fault of the comic. Oh yeah I liked Bendis’ run too. Haven’t finished Cantwells yet.
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Nov 6, 2022 10:06
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