|
Elections look pretty broken, everyone loves socialism so much that they've voted twice. 
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 23:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 22:43 |
|
|
Stairmaster posted:this time will be different! Lostconfused posted:Elections look pretty broken, everyone loves socialism so much that they've voted twice. ITS NOT DIFFERENT AT ALL! IS IT STEVE!?!
|
|
#
?
Oct 25, 2022 23:26
|
|
|
lol you’re trying to hurt me
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 03:44
|
|
|
Anarcho-liberal praxis is stuffing the ballots: It took a bit to get the right color but I managed to reform  in 1912. That said pretty funny how one of the bougie holdouts are the gun sellers mostly because of game mechanics: 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:00
|
|
|
so what's the V3 buy/not buy verdict? trying to weigh up avoiding because of the usual paradox disaster release vs. the reviews being mostly ok and the negative reviews being from people who are very mad about war micromanagement being taken away, which can only be a point in the game's favour.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:14
|
|
|
ModernMajorGeneral posted:so what's the V3 buy/not buy verdict? My only real complaint is that I have no clue how to send troops abroad when dealing with a revolt on some Indeonesian island with a power that I am allied to. My other complaint was not figuring out where decisions were but that's more my own hubris. Economic gameplay is pretty fun but if you're like Russia or China then you're better off turning on autobuild except for the occasional empty siberia-esque province that bugs out and goes ham on building nothing but railroads.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:22
|
|
|
It's looking good so far but personally I'd give it at LEAST a week unless you enjoy the new game collective experience; everyone is still figuring things out so who knows what weird holes and exploits will be found, and then whether those are things that could be reasonably patched or would need significant reworks or DLC to fix. I remember people being pretty happy with Imperator initially, until they started getting the full picture and seeing the edges of the game. But yeah for some reason a certain type of weirdo is treating Vic3 like a moral affront that gamers must rise up to oppose so good luck separating the wheat from the chaff on what is actually a potential problem from negative reviews
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:29
|
|
|
From like 3 hours I'd say if you can wait probably do so, it's a good foundation but even without DLC it could use some balance and bugfix patches
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 04:33
|
|
|
Eurasia uberalles Edit: This is absolutely not the kind of interventionism that the russian empire should be doing in 1840s, but you can't stop me.  Edit: The game is also totally not counting my cost of war, oh well. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 06:36 on Oct 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 06:13
|
|
|
started with a japan run, i think the focus on being an ~open-ended sim~ kinda hurts the game as i didn't gently caress up and thus i'm saddled with a shogun who refuses to participate in government but still has exclusive personal legitimacy so no one else can pass any laws, in 1907 got the confederate new york thing, got the repeated communist revolutions in nova scotia  , got anatolian egypt, italy and prussia both failedand now i have the papal states taking a swing at the nonchristian great power, a sort of last crusade (beating the us after it gets dismembered still counts for westernization.) gonna see Japanese Parma on the map when the war weariness ticks down enough--the spicy cheese for 1.0 is going to war against someone who has no boats and just tanking the war weariness penalty for a week, since loser gives up first demand even if you never fight and ai is on a strict timer. e: when i saddled , i mean it. can't ditch the bakufu without either a civil war, the generic liberalization event, or waiting until lategame for the landowners to go broke. don't get the civil war if the landowners just storm out of government and aren't in charge to be rebelled against, can't liberalize with 10% bills every ten years because the landowners still have all the clout, they themselves don't rebel because ??? they sat at 30% support 90% radicalism for a decade and still no dice. Mandoric has issued a correction as of 09:36 on Oct 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 09:13
|
|
|
is it just me or are there no difficulty settings to this?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 09:16
|
|
|
 didn't find the time or opportunity to go to war with someone who would recognize me so all the white people are ignoring the 3.5 billion gdp communist asian power right there
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 09:17
|
|
|
watching the Victoria 3 tutorials on the official Paradox channel, and the guy they got to host it matter-of-factly said "without market prices, economic decisions are beyond human capacity" and like, I get that a game like Victoria 3 assumes that to be true, in order for the game's economy to have a frame-of-reference under which to work at all, but he immediately follows it up with "... this same concept remains true in Victoria 3", which means he thinks it's a true statement in the general, and not merely as a sop to game design
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 11:22
|
|
|
And on the sixth day, the LORD created the Market and saw that it was a rational and infalliable guide to economic activity.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 11:29
|
|
|
Mandoric posted:started with a japan run, i think the focus on being an ~open-ended sim~ kinda hurts the game as i didn't gently caress up and thus i'm saddled with a shogun who refuses to participate in government but still has exclusive personal legitimacy so no one else can pass any laws, in 1907 Yeah it feels a very bourgeois revolution sort of game. Landowners are just the most useless parasites because they're not interested in doing anything meaningful or useful. Even a theocratic god king emperor is better than just some fedual lord rear end in a top hat.. You can't even do an enlightened despot run because all of the changes are blocked by the interest group. For an autocratic totalitarian society the autocrat has almost no power. Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 14:32 on Oct 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 14:29
|
|
|
My favorite wonky balance thing is that the ideology of the interest group leader overrides the base ideology of the faction so if you get a republican or anti clerical industrialist leader they'll be pro communism
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 15:00
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:watching the Victoria 3 tutorials on the official Paradox channel, and the guy they got to host it matter-of-factly said "without market prices, economic decisions are beyond human capacity" Parodox has always hated the concept of Socialism
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 15:39
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:Parodox has always hated the concept of Socialism I think people should watch the dev streams instead. The Prussia one was really good, the Japan one is hohum but they did a quick restoration.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 15:45
|
|
|
Okay, I think I kind of have a basic grasp of how some of this Victoria poo poo works: at the start of the game, go into the Production Lens, click on the Agriculture tab, and click on the left-most option (Livestock Ranches from where I'm sitting, not sure if that ever changes) it opens up a sidebar to see where you'd want to put it - the column you want to check is the right-most one, "Profit Imp." - if all of these are negative (and they usually will be), then move on to the next Agriculture building, say, Maize Farms repeat this for all of the possible buildings under the Agriculture tab. You might not actually find any positive/profitable buildings within the Agriculture tab go to the Resources tab, and repeat the process go to the Industry tab, and repeat the process as Chile, I actually did find that a Furniture Manufactory had a positive profitability, so I clicked on that to order it to be built you'll want to do this scan occasionally to see if there's anything new that would be profitable to be built, but as a minor power that probably won't happen for a while yet ___ then, go to the Buildings tab, and click on Automatic Expansion button for any of the building types that a green productivity. This doesn't actually mean they're instantly going to construct expansions - the game has some criteria it needs the building to fulfill before it'll do that, and it's (at least to my eye) intelligent enough that you can keep it on and just override the construction queue when you need to ___ the next important thing is that when you research things, for example "Intensive Agriculture" from the Production tab of the Technology Tree, it will unlock new "Production Methods" for your industries once you unlock these new production methods, what you'll want to do is to go back to the Buildings tab, and then click on the buttons representing the production methods used by the industry, and then checking if it has a positive effect on the profitability of the industry. If it does, adopt it.  (this used to be "automated" in Victoria 1/2, but now you have to do it yourself) as you unlock more technologies, keep checking back on adopting better production methods ___ it took me one false start going up to 1854 before realizing this basic economic design, and going up to 1847 as Chile following this game plan from the start, I was able to increase their GDP from the starting 905k to 1.3M and getting up to a healthy budget surplus... which you can then use to do things like spending it on bureaucracy and education and the military I don't know about trade yet gradenko_2000 has issued a correction as of 16:03 on Oct 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
Lostconfused posted:Elections look pretty broken, everyone loves socialism so much that they've voted twice. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
https://youtube.com/c/paradoxinteractive/videos Here, watch like the first reveal stream, Japan, Prussia. Maybe the economy video but it's super tedious and boring.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 15:55
|
|
|
1stGear posted:And on the sixth day, the LORD created the Market and saw that it was a rational and infalliable guide to economic activity. Also thinking about it, this is just kinda wrong. You end up playing it way closer to something like soviet central planning. Where you balance your production inputs and production outputs, and with some foresight can develop industries based on anticipated future demand and supply.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 15:59
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:watching the Victoria 3 tutorials on the official Paradox channel, and the guy they got to host it matter-of-factly said "without market prices, economic decisions are beyond human capacity" We kinda speculated this might happen, was that in this thread? That going to Video Game School or a CS degree is at best not going to include that sort of ideological searching, and at worst will produce lib computer touchers. In other words, it’s not entirely an economic simulator that uses material conditions and interests to explain politics but one that works backwards from liberalism and so runs into several blindspots. I mean, obviously it’s beyond the scope of Victoria to simulate Late Bronze Age Palace Economies, the Late Roman economy, Feudalism etc. but those would all show that economic decisions are very much within the realm of human capabilities and that The Market is not the sole arbiter of the production and allocation of resources and labour within a society. You would think since they said they spent more time focusing on “uncivilized” nations this time around that they would pick up on it. The Triangle Trade was a lot more complicated than market forces alone can explain for example. Many of the sought after trade goods sent to Dahomey for example were valued because of non market forces within African society. Obviously there were guns and iron tools, sure, but sort of like the Bronze Age Near East there was I suppose a “palace economy” where Gezo was at the centre of a complex exchange of gifts, the value of which might be determined by their diplomatic function, status of the giver. It’s why the prevailing narrative we still hear about interactions between Europeans and “uncivilized” people is that the Europeans ripped them off. We’re a hundred years past thinking it’s because they were unsophisticated savages, and now it’s a shame and source of liberal guilt, but that’s still a one-sided narrative. It completely overlooks what the value of glass beads, wool coats, gorgets, etc. was within those societies, which was plainly not what the value was to Europeans. They weren’t idiots that Europeans were pawning trinkets off on, European trade goods proved incredibly valuable to people within those societies, as a sign the individual or group was in contact with Europeans, as a sign of having received gifts from them, in light of the traditional diplomatic role, because the goods were unknown in the region etc etc. The Iroquois Confederacy became the dominant military and political power in North America for over a century because of cheap wool coats, iron tomahawks, muskets. The British and French tried to interdict this trade on several occasions and forbade their citizens from providing them, so they clearly weren’t just junk.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 16:11
|
|
|
That's how the game works anyway. Market prices are a sign of how productive or efficient your economy is. Low prices either mean low demand or high production, and the opposite for high prices, high demand and low production, obviously. You can build your entire economy around global demands, high prices, or production, low prices. You can manually create demand and supply by using state funds to build industries that will either consume excess production or produce what is lacking. Here watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDFHJx4XWGU It's incredible boring, but it shows that the game is a lot more supply chain brained than "free market".
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 16:26
|
|
|
ironically paying attention to immediate profitability is basically the worst thing you can do because half the point to building more production is to drive down the price of goods trade is kinda messy because it includes both tariff profits, bureaucracy costs, and price effects but it can be good to export surplus (i find especially of raw materials or military goods that you're overproducing) and import stuff that you can't or won't produce to fill pop needs or patch up resource holes. seems like the ai is really bad at producing advanced raw materials though so lategame oil and poo poo is hard to get afaict StashAugustine has issued a correction as of 19:14 on Oct 26, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 19:12
|
|
|
Yeah I kinda wish there is an imperialism button just so I can expand oil and rubber output in other countries and I won't give a poo poo that the AI would probably nationalize it at some point.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 19:16
|
|
|
Danann posted:
this is historically accurate
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 19:24
|
|
|
Everyone's happy except for those loving losers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:10
|
|
|
always obliterate the landlords by switching to mutual funds asap
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:11
|
|
|
Fortunately for them Russia is extremely backward, so figuring out mutual funds tech would take just as long. Investing heavily into industrial development worked just as well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:19
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:46
|
|
|
I think Wiz said Capital was on the reading list when developing Vicky 3 so there was at least an attempt to have workers and and the means of production at the center of economic output.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:47
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:51
|
|
|
wrote an effort post on vicky 3 in the other thread but they're too busy having slapfights about steam forum posts and reviews (lol, pathethic). wonder what you guys think:oscarthewilde posted:Well, I'm most of the way through a Germany run, and as much as I like the idea of Vicky 3, the simulation as a whole still needs a lot of work. Even in spite of war being much less complex, the AI still can't really handle wars without a shared border (especially intercontinental, wow). Worse, the AI is somehow both too aggressive and too passive, with huge wars being fought over some really weird wargoals, yet things you'd expect big conflicts over (US-Mexico, the Balkans, Japan, China etc.) are left alone. In general, the economy needs a lot of work. As far as I can tell the AI is pretty decent at actually industrializing, but incapable at running a late-game industrial economy. Even in the 20s and 30s, Germany produced 80% (!) of the worlds oil, just with their two tiny oilwells. Mexico was only building their first oilwell around 1925, despite there being a huge demand for oil. As a result of this massive shortage of oil, I could barely develop my industry past a certain point. The early and midgame are pretty well balanced, but the economy runs aground afterwards. Also, land-based trade needs some rebalancing. Even with protected domestic supply selected, and a mercantilist trade policy, the AI will buy all your cloth of grain before your own population has the chance to. Every couple of years, I'd suddenly see this huge spike in radicals, which I later discovered was the fault France importing about 5000 pieces of clothes. I was making hand over fist in tariffs, but the price of clothes had risen so sharply my pops were losing SoL. I know it's the point of the game, but there should be more gradual control over export and import than either raising export tariffs (which the AI will just completely ignore) or immediately resorting to a full embargo.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:55
|
|
|
I think most of that is fair, it's fun but needs some fine tuning in the numbers or how the automated systems work. In the middle of my Russia game I can't import trains or steel because nobody else is making them. Also for some reason I have like the most productive and the only art academy in the world or something because Russia starts with one?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 21:59
|
|
|
these have been how all three victoria games have functioned lmao
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 22:00
|
|
|
Alright, I'm gonna watch A_Raving_Loon's playthrough of Vickie 3. I know nothing of this mapgame.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 22:01
|
|
|
As far as I can tell people complaining about the game not having "free market capitalism" seem to be missing letting the AI develop your economy for you as with previous titles?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 22:02
|
|
|
Dreylad posted:As far as I can tell people complaining about the game not having "free market capitalism" seem to be missing letting the AI develop your economy for you as with previous titles? yeah lassiez-faire actually seems pretty strong here, though free trade is kind of a trap. but you the player are doing it instead of a brain dead ai so it's communist
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 22:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 22:43 |
|
|
oscarthewilde posted:wrote an effort post on vicky 3 in the other thread but they're too busy having slapfights about steam forum posts and reviews (lol, pathethic). wonder what you guys think: I ran into the same limitations of the AI not being able to handle non-bordering landwars (to be fair not even I know what's up with my ability or inability to support troops across water) and their relative inability to rapidly develop oil and rubber. As for passivity, it would explain some things but I was a bit engrossed in internal matters to really notice. Although I did find that the AI was more than willing to gently caress with me once I had 200+ infamy from killing off the Heavenly Kingdom in my PRC playthrough.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2022 22:08
|
|