|
Feliday Melody posted:I am a CBRN operator. I was under the impression that their stay was brief. And that the soldiers poisoned at the time was mostly overplayed in an attempt to escape the war. Same here. My understanding was that there have been rumors of soldiers having plundered office / lab areas within the Chernobyl site that contained objects from the accident site that were radioactive enough to produce deterministic effects. When I visited the area many years ago, we took a dose rate meter from work with us, and it was an absolute fart in the wind. Our dosimeters didn't register a measurable dose, either.
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 10:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:45 |
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Russia's been doing a lot of PR in Africa and this was certainly to make it look to the audience how reasonable wide-man Putin is and that it's just the NATO puppet nazi Zelensky refusing to stop the war. Yeah I am wondering if he brought up the Azov Battalion and Desecrated Monuments to Zelensky somewhere in the conference lol
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 10:15
|
|
|
Groda posted:Same here. My understanding was that there have been rumors of soldiers having plundered office / lab areas within the Chernobyl site that contained objects from the accident site that were radioactive enough to produce deterministic effects. There’s video footage of them digging trenches throughout the Red Forest lol.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:01
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:There’s video footage of them digging trenches throughout the Red Forest lol. So?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:03
|
|
|
Groda posted:So? Go back there with a dosimeter and a shovel and dig a hole in ground.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:08
|
|
|
Groda posted:So? It’s a highly contaminated area, digging and manning trenches in which is a perfectly reasonable way to earn radiation-related health problems. quote:In 2005, radiation levels in the Red Forest were in some places as high as 10 mSv/h. More than 90% of the radioactivity of the Red Forest was concentrated in the soil.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:09
|
|
|
That's merely 4 days of exposure to develop a 5% chance of developing a fatal cancer. That's pretty fuckin radioactive.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:22
|
|
|
MikeC posted:Slight OT, I noticed that the quoted tweet has Prigozhin's name as Yevgeny Viktorovich. I understand that Viktorovich is the guy's father's name and is an informal version of Prigozhin's name? Why would a news agency use that instead of his formal last name? In addition to what has already been said, Concord is Prigozhin's company, and he's been answering press inquiries to him through them via their VK.com page https://vk.com/concordgroup_official
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:29
|
|
|
Groda posted:So? After the Chernobyl incident they covered the heavily radioactive Chernobyl fallout which landed in the red forest with a whole bunch of sand and dirt, then planted trees on top. This makes the top soil relatively non radioactive but as soon as you dig down or reaches a place where erosion has laid bare the funny stuff (such as streams and other places where water goes) you get the high radioactivity and toxic metals. If you also, as was written before, burn up local plant material you will release bioaccumulated radioactive elements and likely breathe them in etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:30
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:It’s a highly contaminated area, digging and manning trenches in which is a perfectly reasonable way to earn radiation-related health problems. We're not talking about radiation-related health problems or cancer -- we're talking acute radiation sickness. For untrained personnel to recognize radiation sickness means a pretty massive dose. And we already know the labs were plundered. I've seen those figures for hotspots -- and upper end of 0,1-10 mSv/h is a lot -- but those are just hotspots. I say souvenir hunters until I see evidence otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:40
|
|
|
Groda posted:We're not talking about radiation-related health problems or cancer -- we're talking acute radiation sickness. What the evidence you’re missing then, radioactive contamination map overlaid over the already posted footage of trenches?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 11:55
|
|
|
Groda posted:We're not talking about radiation-related health problems or cancer -- we're talking acute radiation sickness. Red forest is where all the heavy stuff fell out of the cloud as it cooled. The surface was extremely radioactive. To make it less dangerous, the Soviets used bulldozers to dig deep trenches, and then push the dead vegetation and other surface material into these trenches. They then covered the trenches with 2 meters of sand. The measured peak dose rates, ~10mSv/h, in the Red Forest are found by measuring from the top of the sand on the location of a trench. That is, through two meters of shielding. The Russians dug their positions on the sand, where the ground was softer. The bottom of some of their trenches got really close to the bottom of the sand. Acute radiation poisoning is absolutely a possibility here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 12:19
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:What's his take on the current situation? Can you boil him down? Sounds interesting but finding time for a new podcast is like finding time for a new job. Just summarizing the latest episode(he was away for a month due to traveling). He reviewed the developments in Russia for the last few weeks. Writing most of this from memory
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 13:10
|
|
|
New presser from Putin at 4pm. I don’t think the topic of it has been clearly pronounced.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 13:56
|
|
|
Is Belarus under sanctions from the West for allowing Russia to stage the invasion from its land?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 13:59
|
|
|
Yes, they aren't as highly publicized, but generally the sanctions have hit both Russia and Belarus, with some Belarusian banks also cut off from SWIFT. The thought is that they are so closely tied together in all things outside military deployment, that any leeway allowed for Belarus would be exploited by Russia.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:06
|
|
|
Rigel posted:Yes, they aren't as highly publicized, but generally the sanctions have hit both Russia and Belarus, with some Belarusian banks also cut off from SWIFT. The thought is that they are so closely tied together in all things outside military deployment, that any leeway allowed for Belarus would be exploited by Russia. Thanks. So is it fair to say that any reluctance on the part of Belarus to commit actual troops to the invasion has less to do with fear of sanctions from the West, which are largely in place already, and more to do with fear of domestic political instability resulting from such a move?
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:09
|
|
|
Zwabu posted:Thanks. So is it fair to say that any reluctance on the part of Belarus to commit actual troops to the invasion has less to do with fear of sanctions from the West, which are largely in place already, and more to do with fear of domestic political instability resulting from such a move? Lukashenko probably wants to, but the military in Belarus seems to have made it pretty clear that it would be an extremely bad idea to give them an order to invade Ukraine. There's some evidence that a failed military coup early on (downplayed and denied) had already been attempted.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:13
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:New presser from Putin at 4pm. I don’t think the topic of it has been clearly pronounced. Apparently it's an address to his Valdai Club think tank - currently holding it's 19th meeting, entitled "A Post-Hegemonic World: Justice and Security for Everyone" https://twitter.com/Andy_Scollick/status/1585582222580539396?s=20&t=GhBOC_AkzZkIoQPZtW87CA Program link - https://valdaiclub.com/events/posts/articles/programme-of-the-19th-annual-meeting-of-the-valdai-club/ Today's Schedule - including livestream link! 10:00 – 12:00 Session 10. The World That Crumbled: Lessons for the Future From the 2022 Military-Political Crisis The institutions of world governance that were established in the second half of the twentieth century and provided a certain framework for international players are no longer working. The situation in world politics has returned to the historical norm: chaotic competition, which can only be limited by the balance of power of the opposing sides. Will there ever be a new system of rules and governance structures? What could it look like? Or has the year 2022 opened up a period of indefinite and dangerous instability? 16:00 Plenary session (LIVE) edit: livestream is up but just a static message right now. So Putin is doing his usual delayed start if it is indeed going to be him speaking KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:17
|
|
|
KitConstantine posted:Apparently it's an address to his Valdai Club think tank - currently holding it's 19th meeting, entitled "A Post-Hegemonic World: Justice and Security for Everyone" Not sure how “post-hegemonic world” in the conference’s title rhymes with the alleged death of the international rules-based system (incidentally, a crisis manufactured by unilateral bad faith actors like Russia) and a return to “chaotic competition, which can only be limited by the balance of power of the opposing sides”. The latter sounds like a pretty hegemonic world to me! The tiring thing about Russian propaganda is how it all ends up just being a word salad devoid of any real meaning. I guess that means it’s working as intended, and the only correct response is “very interesting, now how about you suck on my HIMARs until you play by the international rules again?”
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
Deltasquid posted:Not sure how “post-hegemonic world” in the conference’s title rhymes with the alleged death of the international rules-based system (incidentally, a crisis manufactured by unilateral bad faith actors like Russia) and a return to “chaotic competition, which can only be limited by the balance of power of the opposing sides”. The latter sounds like a pretty hegemonic world to me! By hegemonic they mean that the rules US prefers are largely followed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:46
|
|
|
JunkDeluxe posted:[*] Putin is occupied with the war. Which means he has little time for actually running the country. During his reign he has created a state which is mostly dependent on him handling internal disputes and regional matters, when there are larger issues. Regions are starved from resources(both the corrupt kind, and the "normal" resources), and Putin is the man who can set aside resources and prop up the local regional managers when they need help. He is not doing this right now, which in turn leads to several regions having local issues. This seems interesting to me. I'm not really one for podcasts, but does he go into detail about what kinds of local issues we're talking about, and whether there's any potential for local issues to become bigger issues in the future? If Putin is hoping for a long war to erode Western support for Ukraine, it might derail those plans somewhat if Russia is itself is suffering from increasing administrative issues simply because Putin can't afford enough time and attention to keep an eye on everything that needs handling.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:50
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:By hegemonic they mean that the rules US prefers are largely followed. I think he's trying to desperately spin Russia destroying itself in a stupid war as a demonstration that russia is stronk, actually, and that it's America that is getting own, actually. This has some appeal internally and in the "non-aligned" countries I'd imagine.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:52
|
|
|
Tomn posted:This seems interesting to me. I'm not really one for podcasts, but does he go into detail about what kinds of local issues we're talking about, and whether there's any potential for local issues to become bigger issues in the future? If Putin is hoping for a long war to erode Western support for Ukraine, it might derail those plans somewhat if Russia is itself is suffering from increasing administrative issues simply because Putin can't afford enough time and attention to keep an eye on everything that needs handling. Here's a thread from this morning about the economic issues regional governments seem to be facing (I already had this bookmarked/"liked" from earlier) https://twitter.com/NoYardstick/status/1585601720649932803?s=20&t=GhBOC_AkzZkIoQPZtW87CA Excerpts: https://twitter.com/NoYardstick/status/1585602236436168704?s=20&t=GhBOC_AkzZkIoQPZtW87CA https://twitter.com/NoYardstick/status/1585604045020041219?s=20&t=GhBOC_AkzZkIoQPZtW87CA [Tweets about how personal income tax revenue isn't dropping yet, but mass layoffs haven't started and the effects of mobilization on the workforce haven't yet demonstrated themselves via tax revenue] https://twitter.com/NoYardstick/status/1585604723591331840?s=20&t=GhBOC_AkzZkIoQPZtW87CA https://twitter.com/NoYardstick/status/1585605716299104257?s=20&t=GhBOC_AkzZkIoQPZtW87CA And ends with a link to an article that covers similar ground! https://twitter.com/NoYardstick/status/1585615647828066310?s=20&t=GhBOC_AkzZkIoQPZtW87CA Link: https://www.moscowtimes.ru/2022/10/27/rossiiskie-regioni-stolknulis-s-obvalnim-padeniem-pribilei-biznesa-a25767
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:58
|
|
|
JunkDeluxe posted:Just summarizing the latest episode(he was away for a month due to traveling). He reviewed the developments in Russia for the last few weeks. Writing most of this from memory Thanks, that does sound interesting. Deltasquid posted:Not sure how “post-hegemonic world” in the conference’s title rhymes with the alleged death of the international rules-based system (incidentally, a crisis manufactured by unilateral bad faith actors like Russia) and a return to “chaotic competition, which can only be limited by the balance of power of the opposing sides”. The latter sounds like a pretty hegemonic world to me! It has underlying meaning it's just that the meaning is "Russia should get to throw its weight around and do what it wants" and the only real possible response to that at this point , as you say, is "no" written on artillery shells.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:58
|
|
|
mobby_6kl posted:Well yeah. I think he also already set up these think tanks, speeches, forums, etc long ago back when he thought Ukraine would be quickly conquered and he'd be facing whiney complaints from the West. This would have been his way to say "its done, get over it, the West doesn't restrain us or make the rules anymore". He's bluntly stated that this whole idea that we are in a post-war rules-based world where small nations decide their own destiny and wars of conquest are forbidden is not something that Russia ever signed off on at all, and if Russia takes a few Baltic states and China takes Taiwan, well too bad. Its stupidly out of step with the facts on the ground now that Russia's army is the process of just getting completely and utterly annihilated down to the very last useful well-trained soldier and Russia's humiliation as a former great power is at hand, but they already had the speeches and forums planned, and he can still hope for a miracle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 14:59
|
|
|
Rigel posted:I think he also already set up these think tanks, speeches, forums, etc long ago back when he thought Ukraine would be quickly conquered and he'd be facing whiney complaints from the West. This would have been his way to say "its done, get over it, the West doesn't restrain us or make the rules anymore". He's bluntly stated that this whole idea that we are in a post-war rules-based world where small nations decide their own destiny and wars of conquest are forbidden is not something that Russia ever signed off on at all, and if Russia takes a few Baltic states and China takes Taiwan, well too bad. It's a possibility, but I think they also serve a useful propaganda function for papering over their failures. It reminds me of tech startups that light a ton of money on fire and then when they don't have anything to show for it they fall back on the "we're disrupting the paradigm!" line. Putin has limited gains to show for how much manpower and materiel he's spent on the special operation, but he definitely has struck a blow against the concept of an international rules-based order, so if he pretends that striking at rules-based diplomacy for its own sake was the main point then it means the war is an operational success.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:13
|
|
|
Rigel posted:I think he also already set up these think tanks, speeches, forums, etc long ago back when he thought Ukraine would be quickly conquered and he'd be facing whiney complaints from the West. This would have been his way to say "its done, get over it, the West doesn't restrain us or make the rules anymore". He's bluntly stated that this whole idea that we are in a post-war rules-based world where small nations decide their own destiny and wars of conquest are forbidden is not something that Russia ever signed off on at all, and if Russia takes a few Baltic states and China takes Taiwan, well too bad. I'm increasingly coming around to the idea that Putin may just be a clinical psychopath or sociopath and just not understand that moral ideas like "don't invade other countries" or "bombing children to get what you want is wrong" don't register with him --- to the point that 1) he's always lying and faking whatever moral demeanor he's putting out there, and 2) he thinks that's normal and what everyone else is also doing all the time. I don't think he thinks morality is real. I think he thinks it's just a front everyone is faking up all the time so why shouldn't he fake one that benefits him just like everyone else is doing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:14
|
|
|
Putin is speaking now at Valdai Edit: note there's an english translated audio option for the stream too
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:18
|
|
|
He's saying 'the west' is playing a dangerous game with all their provocations and disregard for other countries  It's a whole lotta projection so far edit: I don't know if it's translation issues but this just sounds like revanchist word salad half the time KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:22
|
|
|
MikeC posted:Slight OT, I noticed that the quoted tweet has Prigozhin's name as Yevgeny Viktorovich. I understand that Viktorovich is the guy's father's name and is an informal version of Prigozhin's name? Why would a news agency use that instead of his formal last name? To add to previous posts, what is informal is addressing people by their patronymic names alone. ringu0 fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:25
|
|
|
KitConstantine posted:He's saying 'the west' is playing a dangerous game with all their provocations and disregard for other countries A lot of fash stuff sounds like unrelated word salad if you aren’t deep down the rabbit hole.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:38
|
|
|
this is so loving tedious. He's ranting about cancel culture and whipping back and forth between how the whole world should have shared values but liberal values are bad and also that Russia is doing everything better than everyone else and their traditional values should be respected, everyone just needs to respect everyone Low key, HEAVILY condensed livetweet thread from Max Seddon, a good Russia knower https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1585638148792811523?s=20&t=SuVNbhMPhjcNqsF7rE_J_w https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1585640938390814725?s=20&t=SuVNbhMPhjcNqsF7rE_J_w oh wait "Russia doesn't interfere in other countries internal affairs"   Also "russia has never considered itself the enemy of the west" Oh word? Also also really hitting hard on how Islam is so accepted in Russia you guys, really it is. edit: Russia never held grudges against the chechen people, and has in fact made Mutually beneficial alliances "with those willing to work with us" holy poo poo edit2: This take makes a lot of sense, when you look at the speech through this lens it clarifies things a lot https://twitter.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1585642971126730753?s=20&t=bAuixxZQet9oxMqGvv38hQ KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:45
|
|
|
So its just your typical rechanvist ramblings from a fascist. Basically loading grievances into a shotgun and seeing if anything hits.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:49
|
|
|
This twitter list is pretty good for Russia coverage by non-idiots and natives - if you want overall coverage of the speech it's pretty much dominating the tweets there at the moment https://twitter.com/i/lists/43845512
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:53
|
|
|
Deltasquid posted:A lot of fash stuff sounds like unrelated word salad if you aren’t deep down the rabbit hole. Or a flood the zone strategy where the goal isn't to convince anyone of anything (anyone convinced is a secondary benefit), but to make the listener confused and tired. It's long been the core principle of Russian messaging targeting an international audience.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:54
|
|
|
jeffreyw posted:So its just your typical rechanvist ramblings from a fascist. Basically loading grievances into a shotgun and seeing if anything hits. I just want to know if he mentioned "tofu-eating wokerati", that's all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:57
|
|
|
And he's made the appeal to the third world explicit - loosely "it's Asia and Africa and South America that will be defining the world in the future and that's good." "Eurasia needs to be interconnected/integrated" "the west is trying to drive a wedge in Eurasia" "Eurasia should not be defined by it's western tip (Europe) that thinks it's better than everyone else" Very clearly aligning Russia away from "the West" as the "historical period of World domination by the West is coming to an end"
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 15:59
|
|
|
Speech portion is over, now it's transitioned to an interview Putin "My parents were just working folks, i'm just like you! I'm on the side of the workers you see"
|
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 16:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 20:45 |
|
|
He's still talking but I've kind of tuned out Oh wait I just tuned in - he's talking about the 'provocations' about nuclear weapons - the west talking about Russia using nuclear weapons is just to make Russia look scary "We've never said anything proactively about use of Nuclear weapons by Russia, we've only hinted in response to what Western Leaders have said directly" what I guess Russian State-owned media doesn't count He's big mad about something Liz Truss said apparently? Russia was blackmailed by a remark she made about the UK having nukes, I guess? Edit: He goes on I think you'll find that the US nuked Japan when 'there was no threat to territorial integrity in the US' [footage of pearl harbor missing] [documentation of the pacific theater missing][footage of WWII conquest of US allies missing] and so they shouldn't comment on what Russia might do Now relitigating the Cuban Missile Crisis KitConstantine fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Oct 27, 2022 |
|
#
?
Oct 27, 2022 16:30
|
|