War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

«‹›275 »

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

This is an all-encompassing thread about an active war, including the gruesome facets of it. Reader discretion is advised. The previous thread can be found here, should you have the need for it.

Welcome to the current events thread for the Russo-Ukrainian war. The purpose of this thread is to help each other stay up to date with what's going on in the war, adding nuance where it's practical, or where Twitter is busy slinging buckets of piss at each other. Based on precedent, this thread has quite a few rules of its own, listed later in this post, and you're expected to read the rules before you post. While you're at it, please also bookmark https://www.deepl.com/translator � this works better for Russian and Ukrainian than the Google Translate does.

THE STORY SO FAR
==============================

It's not possible to cleanly summarize it, so I'll take a coward's way out and (kind-of) skip writing an editorial of my own. Instead, here's a chronology of links I'd expect even a casual observer to be acquainted with. For starters � https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/733fe90805894bfc8562d90b106aa895 is an interactive time-lapse of Russian control over Ukrainian territory.

Before February 24, 2022:

February 24 � March 31:

2022 Q2:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/how-big-loss-russia-is-sinking-moskva-missile-cruiser-2022-04-15/
https://www.wsj.com/story/inside-the-russian-siege-of-mariupol-b6ace25e corpses, gore
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/world/europe/russia-bucha-ukraine-executions.html summary execution of Ukrainian civilians

2022 Q3:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/08/16/zelensky-interview-transcript/
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/09/27/vladimir-putin-stages-four-fake-referendums-in-occupied-ukraine
https://ig.ft.com/ukraine-counteroffensive/ ⇽ if low on time, read this (2/2)

October 1 � October 12:

I don't watch videos all that much, so I'll just link a few videos that I have not watched, but of people that I consider erudites regarding the conflict, or seen referred to frequently enough in the thread, to pacify the YouTube crowd.

SUPPORT UKRAINE
==============================

:siren:

Want to help Ukraine? Visit our donation drive thread.

CommieGIR posted:

Potential Gangtag by goon Loden Taylor

USEFUL RESOURCES
==============================

Maps:

Interactive map, on the cusp of the rumour mill � https://www.scribblemaps.com/maps/view/Operational%20Map%20Ukraine/nBT8ffpeGH
Verbose map updates, inconsistently confirmed � https://www.understandingwar.org
Concise map updates, consistently confirmed at a cost of a delay � https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/world/europe/ukraine-maps.html
Live stories map � https://liveuamap.com
Live geo-verification map � https://geoconfirmed.azurewebsites.net

Miscellaneous:

Russian equipment losses � https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
Foreign aid to Ukraine � https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/
Russian asset tracker � https://cdn.occrp.org/projects/russian-asset-tracker/en/

THREAD-SPECIFIC RULES
==============================
This thread is considered a spinoff from the main Eastern Europe thread, which is still the thread to go for other topics about Eastern Europe, and Russia/Ukraine topics not related to the war.

In addition to the general SA and D&D rules, which you should also take your time to review, this thread has quite a few rules of its own. If you are opposed to following them, my advice to you is that you simply avoid posting here. Instead, consider airing your grievances in the next quarterly D&D feedback thread.

The rules below are an abridged version of the precedent accumulated throughout the previous thread, the OP of which you can check for more context on the individual rules.

This is a current events thread. No one cares that you're looking for cowards to debate you. Simultaneously, discussion of the current events takes precedence over the topic-oriented rules, meaning that if the papers of record or senior public servants are discussing, e.g., a NATO intervention, it's fine to discuss it here as well. Just stay respectful of the spirit of the rules, and don't devolve contentious conversations to masturbatory rehashing of pet peeves.
Tag identifiable violence or gore with or emojis, respectively. See the details below.
The D&D rule II.B is aggressively enforced against a range of �boring� topics. See the details below.
Rules-breaking posts about Ukraine threads in other subforums will be met with a 1-day minimum probation. Specifically, we're talking about D&D subforum rules II.C II.C.1 here.
Speculation about World War 3/NATO intervention is forbidden. Relieve yourself in the containment thread if you must.
Speculation about the use of nuclear weapons is forbidden. Relieve yourself in the containment thread if you must.
Clancychat is explicitly discouraged. For this thread, Clancychat is any conversation on military particulars that is removed from the currently observed events by either a significant passage of time, or a lengthy chain of assumptions. What counts as current, significant, or lengthy is left for moderators' sole discretion on an individual basis.
Allegedly funny shitposts are explicitly discouraged. The funny rule still works, but I'm humourless and the standard I'll hold the posts here to will be even higher than elsewhere. Your best bet is to make sure that your post has more than just your bit to it.
�Casual� slurs targeting Russians � such as �orc�, �Ruskie�, or �Ivan� � are forbidden. The same applies to, e.g., �dill� or �the Ukraine�, but their incidence rate in the thread doesn't warrant a dedicated rule.
Do not casually share visual footage of POWs. They're not to be made objects of public curiosity. Before sharing such footage, ask yourself if it's relevant to an ongoing event in such a manner that it adds novel or unique context to our conversations.
Discussing material you won't post to the thread is discouraged. Anything more than a passing reference to something unspecified, especially something fresh or sensationalist, is actively detrimental to the thread. An exception to this rule applies to posting warnings like �there are numerous videos of tortured corpses from Bucha today, scroll carefully�.
Unprompted moaning about tankies/DSA/etcetera is explicitly discouraged. The majority of posts in this category fall into the buckets of �tedious� or �low-effort attempt to post about posters�.
Thread bans: Regarde Aduck, Neurolimal, and WAR CRIME GIGOLO (D&D-wide ban with a Cali exemption).
Thread posting restrictions: PegLegActual (posting their socials anywhere in D&D), Willo567 (worrying about nuclear war); and Grouchio and Krafttwerk (using the thread for anxiety relief).

Concerning the �boring� topics, for a range of topics you'll be expected to ask yourself �Am I bringing a new viewpoint to the discussion, one that the majority of onlookers will find interesting and valuable?� and �Have I clearly stated why I'm bringing this up and what conclusions or prescriptions stem out of my post?� before you submit your post about them. The topics are the following:

History of NATO, its relationship with the USSR and the ex-USSR states up until February 24, 2022.
No-fly zones, although this is largely covered by the WW3 rule.
Geneva Convention, et al. � don't copy-paste international law unless the requisite evidence is sitting on your face. Even then, too, it'll unlikely generate a captivating conversation.
The mere fact of existence of the �Azov� detachment or other Ukrainians with a manner of association to neo-Nazism.

Concerning the tagging rules, you're expected to put in a fair enough effort. Considering that this is an active thread, having a moderator edit 20 quotes of your improperly tagged post may cost you additional probation time.

By far the most common cause for accidents here is the way embedded Twitter posts will include not just the post you linked explicitly, but also the preceding post in that Twitter thread, if any. In general, things on the page you link will also make you liable, with the notable exceptions of messages that weren't in the Twitter thread, Telegram channel, or a news live blog as of the time of your post. Only the contributions from the primary author(s), not random comments or replies, are considered, of course. That said, please do not ritualistically try to ward off the enforcement of thread rules with �uh, this account may post gore� � just make sure that whatever you specifically post is free of that, or tagged properly.

For the rules themselves, assume that a hypothetical lurker is a naive (innocent) person with autoplay on for all videos, and does not pay much attention to the text, in absence of :nws:

emojis. Moreover, that they would be ready to click exactly once inside your post, and scroll around for a minute or two. In other words, the point of tagging rules is to avoid creating shock content situations in the thread, as if the titular content warning wasn't there. Tagging requirements apply only to visual footage from Ukraine and Russian/Belarus provinces directly involved in the war, and �visible� refers to specific targets being identifiable, e.g., �the crew of that tank was incinerated�. Specifically, you must tag, and explain why you're tagging something, the following:

- visible gore, visible death or reasonably likely death, visible violence against civilians, cruel treatment of POWs. For instance � soldier with a hand blown off, uncovered corpses, drone bombing a moving convoy, long-range missile hitting a residential building in clear sight, POWs being beaten up. For something really hosed, consider wrapping the link in [code] tags so that it doesn't get embedded even when browsing through with third-party apps or browser extensions.
- light wounds, visible violence against military, overbearing wailing. For instance � soldier with bloodied biceps bandage, entrenched military firefight filmed from a high-rise, that toddler screaming when a jet fighter�s rocket blew up near their home.
No tag � everything else (other rules still apply), including violence against an unclear target or a reasonably likely empty target. For instance � all those nighttime explosions, soldiers dumping RPGs around the corner, missile hit on TV tower, drone strike on a still vehicle.

For the avoidance of doubt, violent imagery is tolerated here only inasmuch as it offers clear newsworthiness, novelty, or educational value for a would-be conversation. Exceptionally graphic content, as well sharing any violent imagery in a bloodthirsty connotation, in mods' and admins' subjective view, will be punished with a ban and a 30-day probation on the first offence.

ACTIVE ES
==============================
Please note that for all charity toxxes admins will set the charity.

Silver2195 posted:

It will end by "Friday," i.e., within 18 months.

Silver2195 posted:

Yes. The war will end (or at least be "re-frozen") before November 10, 2023.

Keisari posted:

It is done. This is the beginning of the end of this imperial misadventure.

Ukrainian flag will fly in Melitopol by September 9th 2023, or I will donate 50 euros to a charity or the Ukrainian state.

TWITTER SUPPLEMENT
==============================
Assume on all remaining links in the post, as I cannot guess when exactly you'll open them.

Twitter accounts for Russo-Ukrainian war. This is just a compilation of accounts I'm aware of, rather than a recommendation to read all of this, or some kind of �allowed sources� reference for the thread. My general suggestions are to use common sense:

Don't doomscroll. Make separate Twitter lists for different topics you care about. In general, I would also suggest isolating OSINT accounts to a dedicated list or two, since they can get very busy.
If Ukrainians say that they have blown up a Russian Death Star, wait for tangible evidence. The same applies to Russians saying that they've destroyed 214 of Ukraine's 30 HIMARS systems.
Make sure �multiple sources� are not several people citing the same thing, or each other.
If a tweet feels sensational, check their timeline to get a measure of the account.
�Proper� photo/video evidence is well lit shots from multiple people and angles, with publicly explained geolocation.
If you see a loud claim with a photo, consider using reverse image search. Yandex performs the best at the reverse image search (mind censorship risks), followed by Bing, and only then followed by Google.
Double-check �neat� numbers. If they align with whatever Wikipedia says perfectly (20 tanks in a landing ship, 1:3 dead:wounded ration, etcetera), be sceptic. In general, stuff like �100 trucks blown up� in a presser will tend to be rounded up to some even number.

footage.
Edit 5 on Mar 26: Updated the list of posters under sanctions.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Mar 31, 2023

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 28, 2024 16:43

mutata: Mar 1, 2003

Russian fascist dictator, go gently caress yourself.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:38

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Thanks for the new thread. Looks great and has a good assortment of links.

But I was just tiping up something with regards to the surprisingly interesting topics of article usage for countries based on a historic notion of genders. I guess that discussion is over now.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:40

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

It's still astounding to me that seven months later not only has Ukraine managed to hold on, they're actively pushing back to reclaim territory.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:43

ChaseSP: Mar 25, 2013

mutata posted:

Russian fascist dictator, go gently caress yourself.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:43

notwithoutmyanus: Mar 17, 2009

I have realized I knew next to nothing about this war if not for these helpful threads, and happy to be at least informed from smart sources about what's going on, even if these threads have some crazy activity sometimes (as war has lots of news obviously)

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:45

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

You�re welcome to continue it.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Mar 31, 2023

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:46

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

Tesseraction posted:

It's still astounding to me that seven months later not only has Ukraine managed to hold on, they're actively pushing back to reclaim territory.

Its also interesting to me that this fact does not seem to be widely known, at least not where I'm at. Ukraine recently came up in conversation, and the people I was with were very surprised to hear that the Russian army was doing very badly and getting pushed back. The general thought amongst people not following closely seems to be "well I hear Ukraine is doing OK so far, but they aren't going to win, and that is just too bad".

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:47

MegaZeroX: Dec 11, 2013; "I'm Jack Frost, ho! Nice to meet ya, hee ho!"

cinci zoo sniper posted:

I don't watch videos all that much, so I'll just link a few videos that I have not watched, but of people that I consider erudites regarding the conflict, to pacify the YouTube crowd.

Michael Kofman

Timothy Snyder

I would like adding Perun there, who has probably some of the best YouTube commentary it is, IMO.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:47

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Disgusting absence of https://twitter.com/LawDavF on the twitter recommendation list

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:49

Preen Dog: Nov 8, 2017

You shouldnt bomb ~~the~~ Borderland or the goo inside your country will leak out.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:49

MrYenko: Jun 18, 2012; #2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Tesseraction posted:

It's still astounding to me that seven months later not only has Ukraine managed to hold on, they're actively pushing back to reclaim territory.

It this point I don�t think it�s a question of whether Ukraine pushes Russia back to 2/22 borders, but what Putler does when they begin the liberation of Crimea.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:51

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Rigel posted:

Its also interesting to me that this fact does not seem to be widely known, at least not where I'm at. Ukraine recently came up in conversation, and the people I was with were very surprised to hear that the Russian army was doing very badly and getting pushed back. The general thought amongst people not following closely seems to be "well I hear Ukraine is doing OK so far, but they aren't going to win, and that is just too bad".

There does seem to be a common wisdom that no matter how plucky lil' Ukraine is it cannot win against the Russian bear, which is what I originally thought when the invasion began in February. I think only by paying attention to the major beats do you start to pick up on just how poorly organised and equipped the Russian army are, which means that when Ukraine take back places in Donbas you don't just casually hear it in a news headline and think "oh okay, the tug of war continues" rather than realise how bad Russia have to be getting beaten back to lose where they have the most reinforcement and supply.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:52

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

I rarely posted in the prior thread, but I have read it nearly constantly. Thanks to posters and moderation for creating the best-maintained stream of quality information on the war I've found.

Here's a question: what are some remaining elements of infrastructure that connect Russia and Europe? I am aware of TurkStream, is that the most significant item? I don't mean to ask speculative military questions, more to understand the leverage currently on the table for the various parties.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:52

Elyv: Jun 14, 2013

MegaZeroX posted:

I would like adding Perun there, who has probably some of the best YouTube commentary it is, IMO.

Perun is great.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:52

Back Hack: Jan 17, 2010

mutata posted:

Russian fascist dictator, go gently caress yourself.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:53

Atreiden: May 4, 2008

Can second Perun for weekly good long videos mainly about the war in Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC3ehuUksTyQ7bbjGntmx3Q
for shorter videos Anders Puck Nielsen's, a Danish Military analyst, channel is really good.
https://www.youtube.com/c/AndersPuckNielsen

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:53

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

Tesseraction posted:

There does seem to be a common wisdom that no matter how plucky lil' Ukraine is it cannot win against the Russian bear, which is what I originally thought when the invasion began in February. I think only by paying attention to the major beats do you start to pick up on just how poorly organised and equipped the Russian army are, which means that when Ukraine take back places in Donbas you don't just casually hear it in a news headline and think "oh okay, the tug of war continues" rather than realise how bad Russia have to be getting beaten back to lose where they have the most reinforcement and supply.

People are going to be really confused when (I'll go ahead and say when, what the hell) Ukraine pushes Russia completely out. I think a lot of people are going to immediately go "wait, NATO convinced Russia to leave, right? Was there a peace negotiation? What did Russia get out of this to agree to leave?"

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:55

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Ohtori Akio posted:

I rarely posted in the prior thread, but I have read it nearly constantly. Thanks to posters and moderation for creating the best-maintained stream of quality information on the war I've found.

Here's a question: what are some remaining elements of infrastructure that connect Russia and Europe? I am aware of TurkStream, is that the most significant item? I don't mean to ask speculative military questions, more to understand the leverage currently on the table for the various parties.

If you're asking about gas pipelines there's also Yamal through Belarus and Poland, Soyuz through Ukraine.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:56

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

MrYenko posted:

It this point I don�t think it�s a question of whether Ukraine pushes Russia back to 2/22 borders, but what Putler does when they begin the liberation of Crimea.

Crimea is another part that I would have thought of (ironically) a bridge too far, but them crippling the Russian supply line from the Kerch Strait means it's actually becoming very possible. Doubly so if they can keep the Azov sea clear and launch naval support from the western mainland...

...actually I've lost track, are there any Ukrainian marine vessels still intact? I'd assume so given how much hell they gave Russia at Odessa.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:57

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Daily reminder that Saint Javelin is still raising funds in order to buy winter clothing and medical equipment for Ukrainian soldiers.

You can either donate directly or buy merch, they have lots of cool stuff.

Tesseraction posted:

It's still astounding to me that seven months later not only has Ukraine managed to hold on, they're actively pushing back to reclaim territory.

It's slowed down a bit recently, but yeah, their resilience has been impressive.

The area in blue is what they've retaken since late August, which is pretty amazing:

https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/36a7f6a6f5a9448496de641cf64bd375

Phlegmish fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Oct 13, 2022

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:58

Ohtori Akio: Jul 15, 2022

spankmeister posted:

If you're asking about gas pipelines there's also Yamal through Belarus and Poland, Soyuz through Ukraine.

More general than that, but yes thank you. Maybe it is just gas pipelines, if nothing else would have a comparable impact if interrupted or damaged.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 20:59

Chalks: Sep 30, 2009

Tesseraction posted:

Crimea is another part that I would have thought of (ironically) a bridge too far, but them crippling the Russian supply line from the Kerch Strait means it's actually becoming very possible. Doubly so if they can keep the Azov sea clear and launch naval support from the western mainland...

...actually I've lost track, are there any Ukrainian marine vessels still intact? I'd assume so given how much hell they gave Russia at Odessa.

Amusingly, they just launched a new corvette

https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1576639771149205506

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:00

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Phlegmish posted:

It's slowed down a bit recently, but yeah, their resilience has been impressive.

Which I'd argue is fair - part of the reason Russia kept losing territory in the early period was because it 'gained' it and then launched forwards without really settling in. Very easy to recapture such tenuously claimed areas and slowing down to entrench the frontlines is more viable long-term.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:01

William Bear: Oct 26, 2012; "That's what they all say!"

More air defense systems going to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1579909193754374144?t=6YfAqO6pahYwY4_wZevGCA&s=19

Is there anything new in this G7 statement from today? I see the position is that peace will involve reconstruction through seized Russian funds, and a commitment to trying Russians for war crimes.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/11/g7-statement-on-ukraine-11-october-2022/

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:02

HolHorsejob: Mar 14, 2020; Portrait of Cheems II of Spain by Jabona Neftman, olo pint on fird

Rigel posted:

Its also interesting to me that this fact does not seem to be widely known, at least not where I'm at. Ukraine recently came up in conversation, and the people I was with were very surprised to hear that the Russian army was doing very badly and getting pushed back. The general thought amongst people not following closely seems to be "well I hear Ukraine is doing OK so far, but they aren't going to win, and that is just too bad".

This has been my experience as well. I'm the most plugged-in person I know about this war (American, my family is Polish and Ukrainian), and probably the least pessimistic about Ukraine's chances.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:02

Rappaport: Oct 2, 2013

Ohtori Akio posted:

More general than that, but yes thank you. Maybe it is just gas pipelines, if nothing else would have a comparable impact if interrupted or damaged.

Finland and Russia have the same rail gauge (roughly), but those links getting severed for whatever reason wouldn't be super-impactful.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:02

Tomn: Aug 23, 2007; And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Tesseraction posted:

Crimea is another part that I would have thought of (ironically) a bridge too far, but them crippling the Russian supply line from the Kerch Strait means it's actually becoming very possible. Doubly so if they can keep the Azov sea clear and launch naval support from the western mainland...

...actually I've lost track, are there any Ukrainian marine vessels still intact? I'd assume so given how much hell they gave Russia at Odessa.

As far as I know the Ukrainian Navy is pretty much a non-factor aside from whatever secret squirrel US drone boats were handed over to them - there weren't many of them and they were wildly outclassed by the Black Sea Fleet, with the flagship getting scuttled to prevent capture. They do have land-based anti-ship missile launchers, though, which is how they nailed the Moskva.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:04

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

Tesseraction posted:

Crimea is another part that I would have thought of (ironically) a bridge too far, but them crippling the Russian supply line from the Kerch Strait means it's actually becoming very possible. Doubly so if they can keep the Azov sea clear and launch naval support from the western mainland...

...actually I've lost track, are there any Ukrainian marine vessels still intact? I'd assume so given how much hell they gave Russia at Odessa.

Idk about vessels, but Wikipedia says the naval infantry were present at Mariupol, and lost a whole brigade there (as prisoners, not fatalities). ~2,600 as POWs, out of 6,000 total naval infantry.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_Separate_Marine_Brigade

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:05

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

cinci zoo sniper posted:

You�re welcome to continue it.

Okay, the gist of it is that the German grammar is using articles in front of country names not to signify that it's actually a region, but rather to signify the perceived gender if that country based on the original language. That's why there are countries with "Der" or "Die" in front if it. Most are gender neutral, where the "Das" is just dropped. "Die" can also be used as plural like United States. So in essence it's called "Die Ukraine" because Ukrainians traditionally considered their country to be female e.g. Mother Ukraine. There are exceptions to this vague rule. If the name of a country ends with some noun the full name inherits that article, most notably, anything ending with "-Land" is neutral and articleless. Otherwise it would probably be Die Russland.

Alternatively, the part about the perceived gender is bunk and Die Ukraine is a historic shorthand for Die Ukraine-Region, which would not be all that independent.

cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 11, 2022

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:07

Kavros: May 18, 2011; sleep sleep sleep
fly fly post post
sleep sleep sleep

William Bear posted:

More air defense systems going to Ukraine.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1579909193754374144?t=6YfAqO6pahYwY4_wZevGCA&s=19

Is there anything new in this G7 statement from today? I see the position is that peace will involve reconstruction through seized Russian funds, and a commitment to trying Russians for war crimes.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/11/g7-statement-on-ukraine-11-october-2022/

This war has already been fascinatingly ground-based with relatively few air assets, and I'm assuming this will keep the trend strong for at least one side,

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:15

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Tesseraction posted:

Crimea is another part that I would have thought of (ironically) a bridge too far, but them crippling the Russian supply line from the Kerch Strait means it's actually becoming very possible. Doubly so if they can keep the Azov sea clear and launch naval support from the western mainland...

...actually I've lost track, are there any Ukrainian marine vessels still intact? I'd assume so given how much hell they gave Russia at Odessa.

You mean of their military navy? Nothing major, with ships being built elsewhere for replacement, as far as I can tell - like the corvette in a Turkish wharf, linked above.

William Bear posted:

Is there anything new in this G7 statement from today? I see the position is that peace will involve reconstruction through seized Russian funds, and a commitment to trying Russians for war crimes.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/10/11/g7-statement-on-ukraine-11-october-2022/

Not that I can tell, besides including recent facts about mobilisation, NordStream.

Rappaport posted:

Finland and Russia have the same rail gauge (roughly), but those links getting severed for whatever reason wouldn't be super-impactful.

Same for the Baltics.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:24

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

Ohtori Akio posted:

More general than that, but yes thank you. Maybe it is just gas pipelines, if nothing else would have a comparable impact if interrupted or damaged.

I do believe the Baltic countries have their energy grids connected to Russia, but they're working on severing those links.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:27

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Kavros posted:

This war has already been fascinatingly ground-based with relatively few air assets, and I'm assuming this will keep the trend strong for at least one side,

Hopefully though someone is working on getting Ukraine some modern(ish) airframes. Considering that some HARMs strapped to ancient Migs seem to be reasonably effective at loving up russia's air defenses, this would be an absolute gamechanger. NATO's whole strategy for fighting russia (or anyone else for that matter) is heavily dependent on the air forces.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:28

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

Business Insider is reporting that Musk spoke with Putin before posting those polls. However. Musk denies he spoke directly with Putin.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-spoke-vladimir-putin-before-ukraine-peace-plan-report-2022-10

quote:

Tesla CEO Elon Musk spoke with Vladimir Putin before pitching his Ukraine peace plan on Twitter that repeated Kremlin talking points, political scientist says

Elon Musk reportedly met with Putin before tweeting a controversial poll on the Ukraine war.

Putin told Musk he was "prepared to negotiate" if certain conditions were met, according to Ian Bremmer.

Musk denied that he met with Putin before tweeting the poll.

Before tweeting a peace plan to end the war in Ukraine that parroted Russian demands, Elon Musk reportedly spoke privately with Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to a leading political analyst.

Eurasia Group founder and president Ian Bremmer in a Monday email to his organization's subscribers said that he spoke with Musk two weeks ago. At the time, Musk told Bremmer that Putin explicitly told him that he was "prepared to negotiate" under the conditions that Crimea remains under Russian control, that Ukraine remained neutral, and that Russia's annexations of Luhansk, Donetsk, Kherson, and Zaporizhzhia were enforced.

According to Bremmer, Putin told Musk that these were goals he'd accomplish "no matter what," or else he would turn to "major escalation."

Bremmer also said that Musk told him Putin said if Zelenskyy "invaded Crimea, Russia would retaliate with a nuclear strike on Ukraine," adding, "Elon said everything needed to be done to avoid that outcome."

Musk, however, denies that he spoke with Putin recently.

Last week, Musk shared a public poll pitching a plan to stop the war. Musk's proposal heavily favored Kremlin positions and his comments echoed Kremlin talking points, for which he was widely accused of amplifying Russian propaganda.

Putin has repeatedly and falsely claimed that Ukraine is not a real country, and has referred to Ukrainians and Russians as "one people." The Russian leader has employed a distorted view of history as one of many justifications for Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine; Russia seized the Crimea peninsula, a key military base with direct Black Sea access, by force in 2014 and used that region earlier this year to invade Ukraine from the south.

The billionaire was harshly criticized for the tweet, including by Ukrainian officials and diplomats.

Musk has been outspoken about his increasing worries that the Ukraine-Russia conflict could escalate to nuclear levels, as Putin recently warned, and he has a front-row seat as the SpaceX CEO, which operates the Starlink satellite network that Ukraine is reliant on to link its forces and target Russian positions.

Elon Musk did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment to confirm he met with Putin. But Musk in a tweet denied that he had spoken to Putin before tweeting the poll.

"I have spoken to Putin only once and that was about 18 months ago. The subject matter was space," Musk said.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:36

Sekenr: Dec 12, 2013

Tesseraction posted:

It's still astounding to me that seven months later not only has Ukraine managed to hold on, they're actively pushing back to reclaim territory.

I was one of the people who posted back in december or january "surely russians can't be so stupid as to attempt to capture a 40 million nation of strongly independant people without a full scale mobilisation? :downs:

" And look at me now

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:42

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

I am assuming the mean "met with" in an indirect sense. I dint think Putin is expecting a lot of foreign visitors these days and it would be kind of obvious, if Musk took a sudden trip to Moscow.

cant cook creole bream fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Oct 11, 2022

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:43

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

cant cook creole bream posted:

I am assuming the mean "met with" in an indirect sense. I dint think Putin is expecting a lot of foreign visitors these days and it would be kind if obvious, if Musk took a sudden trip to Moscow.

I think he's being very deliberate with his words so he can claim later that he never lied or misled anyone. He didn't meet with Putin, he spoke with him. Or he never spoke with Putin, he spoke with his representative etc. It would be easy to issue a blanket denial but he didn't do that.

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:49

cant cook creole bream: Aug 15, 2011; I think Fahrenheit is better for weather

Mr. Apollo posted:

I think he's being very deliberate with his words so he can claim later that he never lied or misled anyone. He didn't meet with Putin, he spoke with him. Or he never spoke with Putin, he spoke with his representative etc. It would be easy to issue a blanket denial but he didn't do that.

I meant the article itself. But yeah, I can totally see Musk going "I didn't meet Putin. *wink*"

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:51

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 28, 2024 16:43

Mr. Apollo: Nov 8, 2000

cant cook creole bream posted:

I meant the article itself. But yeah, I can totally see Musk going "I didn't meet Putin. *wink*"

Oh, right. Yes, I would assume that too but I think Musk is going for "technically correct".

# ? Oct 11, 2022 21:53

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > War in Ukraine: thread feedback session open unttil Saturday (i'll regret this)

«‹›275 »