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Docjowles posted:There were definitely a couple Seahawks goons who tried to warn us that Russ was 100% toast. But it certainly wasn't the prevailing opinion anywhere. There were definitely people (myself included) who thought he had declined and wasn’t a top QB anymore but I don’t think anyone expected him to be one of the very worst starters in a year where there are a LOT of bad QBs. Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:You don't get points for following conventional wisdom and being incredibly wrong. Sure you do. It’s the origin of the phrase “Nobody gets fired for buying IBM.” It’s why some picks are considered “safe,” despite the fact that the draft is a crapshoot and safe picks fail all the time.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:13
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mcmagic posted:It rules that Denver thought they were getting Peyton Manning 2 and they ended up with 2022 Russ. gently caress that team. This trade benefits the Seattle Seahawks, and therefore I think it's bad and also not good. The trade was abysmal, seconding that the extension before he played was even worse.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:14
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To be fair, the Broncos did get a second Peyton Manning. It just happened to be the 2015 version.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:15
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It’s not the trade for Wilson that’s going to bury Paton, it’s the the contract he gave to Wilson and that they don’t have a choice but to carry a garbage QB for the next 4 years or so. Unless Wilson himself does the unthinkable and puts the team ahead of himself to allow a his contract to be reworked to give them an out much sooner, they’ve committed to giving him all the money for a long time. They might as well not bother trying to be competitive unless they get a coach who can get the most out of Wilson like Carroll did. That means everyone on that stellar defense is wasting their time in Denver right now unless they’re just there to get paid.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:17
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It feels like something has to give with that Wilson contract if he is truly done. I don't think Wilson is going to want to ride the bench for 3 years as some weird expensive spectacle. I assume that if he is truly cooked, by 2024 Wilson will either restructure his contract or retire with the aid of some under the table Wal-Mart money.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:21
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In my minds eye I can see a coach who corrals Wilson into playing inside of structure and limits him to like 15 throws a game, creating an offense that isn't dogshit. But that coach is Pete Carroll.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:24
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aperion posted:It’s not the trade for Wilson that’s going to bury Paton, it’s the the contract he gave to Wilson and that they don’t have a choice but to carry a garbage QB for the next 4 years or so. Unless Wilson himself does the unthinkable and puts the team ahead of himself to allow a his contract to be reworked to give them an out much sooner, they’ve committed to giving him all the money for a long time. If they didn’t trade for Russ their options were to take a gamble on one of the 2022 picks that nobody likes, start Drew Lock, or sift through the FA scrap heap. They’d still suck and he’d still be on the hot seat and just praying that he survives long enough and the team gets a high enough pick to take a QB who miraculously doesn’t suck. If you’re a GM holding pat and waiting for the perfect QB to fall into your lap for cheap isn’t a realistic strategy. He took what looked like a fairly low risk gamble at the time and it ended up being a bad beat.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:24
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YOLOsubmarine posted:If they didn’t trade for Russ their options were to take a gamble on one of the 2022 picks that nobody likes, start Drew Lock, or sift through the FA scrap heap. They’d still suck and he’d still be on the hot seat and just praying that he survives long enough and the team gets a high enough pick to take a QB who miraculously doesn’t suck. Could have traded for Geno instead of Russ Hah
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Oct 27, 2022 20:25
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:In my minds eye I can see a coach who corrals Wilson into playing inside of structure and limits him to like 15 throws a game, creating an offense that isn't dogshit. Pete Carroll couldn’t do it either, that was the problem.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:25
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YOLOsubmarine posted:There were definitely people (myself included) who thought he had declined and wasn’t a top QB anymore but I don’t think anyone expected him to be one of the very worst starters in a year where there are a LOT of bad QBs. who has ever said this
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Oct 27, 2022 20:27
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It's a well known business mantra from the olden times. But it still won't excuse a GM for disabling a franchise for years to come with an albatross of a contract. YOLOsubmarine posted:Pete Carroll couldn’t do it either, that was the problem. I think like fsif said, if things continue like this, Wilson at some point is going to have to check his ego if he doesn't want to spend the rest of his career riding the pine.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:28
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sirtommygunn posted:who has ever said this
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Oct 27, 2022 20:34
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I'm excited for when it comes out that Wilson audibled to that pass in the Super Bowl and Carrol had called in a run with Lynch.
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Oct 27, 2022 20:43
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Diva Cupcake posted:It's been around the tech industry for like 30 years. It doesn't really apply much any more but a newer version would be like SAP or Oracle. The saying originally about IBM goes back to like the 1970s or something. I heard it a fair bit in the 80s (my dad was working at IBM at the time though, so that skews things) but basically even though IBM computers were more expensive than competitors like HP (we're talking servers here), no IT director ever got fired for going with IBM anyway. Their reputation for ironclad hardware, unwavering reliable support, and dominance/longevity as a company meant your boss would know their reputation and whatever issues you might have in the future, they couldn't fault you for picking the industry's reputational leader. In the 1990s and 00s I heard the saying transposed to Intel a lot. Even when Athlon chips were beating Pentiums on price/performance, IT managers still bought Intel and didn't get fired for it. Basically the same reasoning. I could see it applying to cloud today although I expect it's more likely to be AWS for cloud infrastructure. Maybe Oracle or SAP for cloud applications? Big, old, reliable companies with expensive service contracts but they're clearly not going away, they support their software for decades even when it's been end-of-lifed, if you buy Oracle apps or an Oracle DB or whatever, no CEO or CTO can wag a finger at you later for making a bad choice, even if something nominally "better" turns out to have been available. Re: Russel Wilson's contract, you trade a bunch of stuff for a QB you have to sign them to a long contract because you're otherwise risking losing all that trade capital in a year or two when they move on again to another team. Putting someone on a "prove it" contract isn't consistent with paying a bunch of picks for them. And when they're an established starting QB you pretty much have to accept that they have a ton of leverage. Even a guy with a huge cloud over his head like DeSean Watson has enough personal leverage to pick and choose between suitors. This is not like trading for an RB or even for a guy like Nuk, where you built a blockbuster trade with your trade partner and make it happen but the player himself doesn't really have a choice. I think even a faded star like Matt Ryan was able to immediately restructure his contract when he got traded to the Colts, he has guarantees for 2023 even if he doesn't play a snap. If they hadn't done that I don't think he'd have gone along with the trade. So to me the question is more if they could have gotten Wilson to stick with a bit less guaranteed money or maybe a year shorter on the contract without risking losing him if he had turned out to be able to return to his full powers. We have to remember he spent a lot of last year recovering from a hand injury and that was probably a plausible reasoning for believing Wilson in 2022 would be more like Wilson in 2020 than Wilson from 2021. I think there was some risk there but once Denver committed to that risk, the contract we see is reasonable.
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Oct 27, 2022 21:05
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The aughts version was nobody ever got fired for buying Microsoft.
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Oct 27, 2022 21:08
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yeah that's probably right
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Oct 27, 2022 21:15
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YOLOsubmarine posted:If they didn’t trade for Russ their options were to take a gamble on one of the 2022 picks that nobody likes, start Drew Lock, or sift through the FA scrap heap. They’d still suck and he’d still be on the hot seat and just praying that he survives long enough and the team gets a high enough pick to take a QB who miraculously doesn’t suck. I dont think he's still on the hot seat if their qb is poo poo. You can just blame the qb being poo poo and say when you get a chance next draft you'll fix it and then you'll get good. Without russ the Broncos don't get anywhere near as many primetime games and hackett basically only gets revealed to be a bad coach to dweebs like us. Sure, year two would be a rude wakeup call for the franchise when the qb likely doesn't pan out because hackett is baaaaaad, but hey that's another year of salary.
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Oct 27, 2022 21:32
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FizFashizzle posted:Rodgers falls off Machu Pichu during a DMT trip What's the German word for being both completely surprised and not at all surprised by something at the same time? There has to be one right?
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Oct 27, 2022 21:53
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YOLOsubmarine posted:If they didn’t trade for Russ their options were to take a gamble on one of the 2022 picks that nobody likes, start Drew Lock, or sift through the FA scrap heap. They’d still suck and he’d still be on the hot seat and just praying that he survives long enough and the team gets a high enough pick to take a QB who miraculously doesn’t suck. Here's the thing: I'm not disputing ANY of this. Not one bit, because I think you're correct. But he will still take the blame and lose his job over all this. This is a situation where it's not any one thing. The hire of Nathaniel Hackett, the strongest-looking HC hire this offseason. Trading for Russel Wilson from the Seahawks, which happened among a LOT of other big trades, and ultimately overshadowed by the Deshaun Rapist trade by the Browns, which I think will gently caress them over much harder than the Broncos trade, but that's it's own topic. The coaching staff hires, the draft, the new owners buying the Broncos, all that plays into all this too. By all counts, the GM quite possibly did the right thing in every respect, did everything he was told to do, did everything right, and it STILL all is crumbling apart on him. I think he loses his job at the end of the season and they will cite the Wilson contract as the reason for it; and if he goes, Hackett goes with him (even if they don't say so openly; they'll probably cite some bullshit 'going in a different direction' thing or whatever). To put it another way, there was no good options for him to take, he just took the one that seemed like a good option at the time, something that everyone in the media affirmed as well. Hell, there were real questions about whether it was Wilson or Carroll that held the Seahawks together when the team went to poo poo. None of us realistically thought we'd have a definitive answer so quickly.
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Oct 27, 2022 22:44
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aperion posted:The hire of Nathaniel Hackett, the strongest-looking HC hire this offseason. Nah. I was surprised they did it, I didn’t think anyone was dumb enough to hire an OC who didn’t even call plays and had Aaron Rodgers at QB.
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Oct 27, 2022 22:52
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Paton is definitely trending towards being fired this year but I do think the Russ trade wouldn’t be enough to get him fired if he hadn’t also made a really bad coaching hire. If he’d hired a guy like Daboll who could work around a lovely QB and still put a team on the field that looks well coached and prepared I think he’d be forgiven for the gamble on Russ, at least for the moment. But Hackett has looked completely unprepared and Paton owns that hire 100%.
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Oct 27, 2022 22:54
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Rod Hoofhearted posted:Nah. I was surprised they did it, I didn’t think anyone was dumb enough to hire an OC who didn’t even call plays and had Aaron Rodgers at QB. Clarifying that this isn't what I personally think about the hire, it's what the perception I could see at the time was. Really, I didn't see anyone media-wise scrutinizing the hire, even Broncos analysts and whatnot. Not everyone was sucking him off but it was enough that I didn't even really check to see what his record as OC was until after the first game this season and see he got fired from the Jaguars and had no HC experience ever.
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Oct 27, 2022 23:06
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Nathaniel Hackett is going to be the reason Byron Leftwich doesn't get a head coaching shot.
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Oct 27, 2022 23:08
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Shrimpy posted:Nathaniel Hackett is going to be the reason Byron Leftwich doesn't get a head coaching shot. The Buccs are don't a fine job of that
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Oct 27, 2022 23:12
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YOLOsubmarine posted:There were definitely people (myself included) who thought he had declined and wasn’t a top QB anymore but I don’t think anyone expected him to be one of the very worst starters in a year where there are a LOT of bad QBs. Yeah, like no one was very surprised at how awful Baker was for the Panthers (and tbh I'd like to see him play again now that Rhule's gone, although I don't think it'll be better), but no one was expecting him to just dive off the cliff. If you had compared Carolina's and Denver's QB situations at the beginning of the season, absolutely no one would have thought that Carolina would end up with the better one... but if Russ really is done, then that is exactly the case. This season is so loving weird. fsif posted:It feels like something has to give with that Wilson contract if he is truly done. I don't think Wilson is going to want to ride the bench for 3 years as some weird expensive spectacle. Only way a cooked Russ would stay around past 2023 is if he's just that spiteful and wants to stick it to Denver, but I can't imagine he'd want to ruin his image even further if that rumor of him wanting to be President has any truth to it
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Oct 27, 2022 23:23
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The Broncos only hired Hackett because they were trying to get Aaron Rodgers, and Russ was then a conveniently timed Plan B. A lot of weird dominoes had to fall to get to this point.
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Oct 27, 2022 23:24
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Paton is definitely trending towards being fired this year but I do think the Russ trade wouldn’t be enough to get him fired if he hadn’t also made a really bad coaching hire. If he’d hired a guy like Daboll who could work around a lovely QB and still put a team on the field that looks well coached and prepared I think he’d be forgiven for the gamble on Russ, at least for the moment. But Hackett has looked completely unprepared and Paton owns that hire 100%. Agree. Getting Russ is like being dumped in the middle of a lake. It's going to be a fight for GM survival but if you can swim you might make it. Hiring Hackett is the anchor that drags him into the depths because if you get Russell Wilson you don't then get a coach who has to "learn" poo poo. Russell is 33 years old the Broncos have to win now. It's not a team that's built for a coach who needs on the job training.
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Oct 27, 2022 23:31
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Impossibly Perfect Sphere posted:In my minds eye I can see a coach who corrals Wilson into playing inside of structure and limits him to like 15 throws a game, creating an offense that isn't dogshit. Wilson can’t play inside of structure it has been the greatest weakness of his whole career
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Oct 28, 2022 00:25
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Rod Hoofhearted posted:Nah. I was surprised they did it, I didn’t think anyone was dumb enough to hire an OC who didn’t even call plays and had Aaron Rodgers at QB. 
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Oct 28, 2022 01:38
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Yup, at least with Philbin you could imagine he might’ve helped develop Rodgers. You can’t even do that with Hackett.
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Oct 28, 2022 01:47
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Four days ago https://twitter.com/TBTimes_Bulls/status/1584273453514838017 One loss later https://twitter.com/gregauman/status/1585838693063208960?s=20&t=0b7NhKM2Z15bFLhIprz-MQ
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Oct 28, 2022 04:42
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Chris James 2 posted:Four days ago Unless he’s going to fire himself I’m not sure how a coaching change is supposed to help.
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Oct 28, 2022 04:44
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remember when jets fans were like "todd bowles sucks" and everyone was like "no, todd bowles can't suck, he just got stuck coaching the jets," and now, lo and behold, todd bowles sucks?
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Oct 28, 2022 04:46
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Unless he’s going to fire himself I’m not sure how a coaching change is supposed to help. I mean the defense plays good in the first half then wears out because the offense sucks. Basically beg Arians to come call plays or admit defeat. Bowles is bad tho.
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Oct 28, 2022 04:47
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Rod Hoofhearted posted:I didn’t think anyone was dumb enough to hire an OC who didn’t even call plays and had Peyton Manning at QB.
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Oct 28, 2022 04:49
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Gase didn’t call plays?
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Oct 28, 2022 04:53
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Professor Funk posted:remember when jets fans were like "todd bowles sucks" and everyone was like "no, todd bowles can't suck, he just got stuck coaching the jets," and now, lo and behold, todd bowles sucks? I look at it like Josh Rosen. He sucks for sure, but it doesn't mean he wasn't dealt a pretty lovely hand. wandler20 posted:I mean the defense plays good in the first half then wears out because the offense sucks. Basically beg Arians to come call plays or admit defeat. Yeah the defense still works pretty good against non-Chiefs teams. He kept the OC from last year where they were second in the league in points scored (yeah Arians was a big part of that but I don't know what else you do in that situation). Brady coming back probably seemed like a really nice deal for him but he just looks like poo poo now. Add in a few injuries and the OL playing like dogshit and, well here we are.
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Oct 28, 2022 04:55
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Grittybeard posted:
Hell, the OL was miles better tonight than what it's been but Brady took a couple bad sacks and was pretty inaccurate on plenty of throws. Short yardage and red zone is the biggest issue with the team.
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Oct 28, 2022 05:03
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Brady just needs more time with his receivers, he'll undo the rust from playing with them for 3 years and then he'll be fine.
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Oct 28, 2022 05:15
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Fire all Bucs staff. Bring more suffering to Tom.
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Oct 28, 2022 05:26
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