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Eiba
Jul 26, 2007


I wonder if, for something like opium at least where they build a couple naturally, you can import a bunch until the increased demand triggers them to actually develop their opium plantations.

Same for vassals not developing rubber at all. I never had anyone in my customs union as Japan but if you set some of barracks to use bikes or something and just leave the demand for rubber incredibly high, will that get them to eventually figure out that it's a good building to build?

It would be an interesting test to see how responsive the AI is to the market.

It's still a major issue that they never develop this stuff on their own, but that might be a way to get an intransigent vassal to start working on it for now at least.

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Jazerus
May 24, 2011


decided to try a japan game. things going really well, managed to get hokkaido, sakhalin, and the various pacific islands including south new zealand through a very lucky early colonialism law. deficit spending eventually got a bit out of control and i was riding a 5.5M debt in 1846 when the shogunate gets upset and withholds taxes, sending me spiraling toward doom...

and then france bought my debt! all of it! is france really so broken this early that they can spend 5 million on an obligation from a country without open markets? well, w/e, time to get back to constructing i guess

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Eiba posted:

I wonder if, for something like opium at least where they build a couple naturally, you can import a bunch until the increased demand triggers them to actually develop their opium plantations.

Same for vassals not developing rubber at all. I never had anyone in my customs union as Japan but if you set some of barracks to use bikes or something and just leave the demand for rubber incredibly high, will that get them to eventually figure out that it's a good building to build?

It would be an interesting test to see how responsive the AI is to the market.

It's still a major issue that they never develop this stuff on their own, but that might be a way to get an intransigent vassal to start working on it for now at least.

I tried doing this with sulphur in the early game as Brazil, setting my factories to consume it and not importing much to leave the price high in the hopes that my market partner Venezuela would start building sulphur mines in its sulphur producing state, but it never did, it just seemed to favor agriculture and logging there despite me leaving the price of sulphur high for several years.

Omobono
Feb 19, 2013

That's it! No more hiding in tomato crates! It's time to show that idiota Germany how a real nation fights!

For pasta~! CHARGE!

Traxis posted:

So it seems like the lack of end game resource production could be caused by this typo in 00_defines.txt



:allears:
Now THAT is the Paradox jank we all know.

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib

Traxis posted:

So it seems like the lack of end game resource production could be caused by this typo in 00_defines.txt



Appears to be three such typos https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-plays.1552636/

DurosKlav
Jun 13, 2003

Enter your name pilot!

The starting Ottoman/Russian front is all weird.



It starts in Azerbaijan and goes west to Armenia then ignores most of the black sea provinces and starts back up again in Russian Dobrudja and Bessarabia.

Please let me demobilize generals.

DurosKlav fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Oct 30, 2022

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



Another Person posted:


Diplomacy

- It is really weird that you can only integrate subjects which hate you. What incentive is there, if any, to keeping a subject loyal? Either make it so subjects can never be integrated, or make it so that good relations allow a peaceful annexation which costs you influence for 5 years.

Yeah I was surprised that this was not an option. During the Central American civil war I got back all the territory except Guatemala and I wasn't powerful enough to manage that in the 1840s. Several decades later, Guatemala and I had extremely high relations, they were a junior member of my customs union, we had an alliance, they owed me an obligation... and I still couldn't pursue any mode of unification without damaging relations to do a diplomatic play?

The other diplomatic aspect that feels weird not being there is that ideology doesn't seem to affect anything in diplomacy? If there's any fact of history it's that a nation going communist tends to affect their foreign relations lol

Precambrian Video Games
Aug 19, 2002




So they print errors with wrong variable names in the debug log but don't actually have a test to validate them in the build? Okay then...

Triple A
Jul 14, 2010

Your sword, sahib.
Small Arms and Munitions should be a luxury item for Farmers, Officers, Capitalists, Shopkeepers and Aristocrats. That way, there's a non-military market for these items that was very much a big business.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Another Person posted:


- Do not let nations take a treaty port on countries which are recognised as minor powers or above. Especially do not let them take a treaty port on GPs. It should not even be an option. I literally had Austria take a treaty port on Prussia, giving them Memel. Similarly, I have taken one on the Netherlands in Holland. It is really, really stupid conceptually. Allow treaty ports to be exchanged via wargoal, but absolutely do not let them be taken in core territory in Europe or the Americas.


Treaty ports on GPs are good, because they are funny, and because they are real. The French functionally took a treaty port when they occupied Saarland after WWI.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Kalko posted:

Still learning the game with Japan and working out how to keep supply and demand balanced with a strictly domestic market, but I haven't been able to keep Hokkaido stable, at least in terms of employment. Just about everything I build there goes into "can't hire people" mode where it says they all want better paying jobs (and I can't subsidize anything). Is that because it's a relatively small population and they have better living standards or something? I worked out I need to build a port there because their market access always drops after the first few years, but yeah, I can't seem to keep them satisfied.

What is the employment rate?

RabidWeasel posted:

Here's an interesting question I've been considering: what country has the easiest time having access to all of the mid-late game resources without having to resort to colonies? I guess the biggest limiting factor here is oil and rubber.

I know "just go conquer some of SEA or Africa" is very in period but I like the idea of going all game without leaving my home region if at all possible.

Dutch East Indies, but that's sort of putting your problem behind you.

Peru-Bolivia has every irreplaceable resource, but not too much coal.

Gran Colombia has everything except for lead. Mexico has everything except sulphur.

Popoto
Oct 21, 2012

miaow

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

The other diplomatic aspect that feels weird not being there is that ideology doesn't seem to affect anything in diplomacy? If there's any fact of history it's that a nation going communist tends to affect their foreign relations lol

Well, in this case more than laws should it be a relationship bonus/malus depending on which IG is in charge?

sloppy portmanteau
Feb 4, 2019
Can anyone tell me which states in South America have good oil production? I don't think anyone there has the tech to discover it yet. The only discovered oil so far is in north Germany, and I'm not invading there.

Or if there's any in Africa?

Schnitzler
Jul 28, 2006
Toilet Rascal

sloppy portmanteau posted:

Can anyone tell me which states in South America have good oil production? I don't think anyone there has the tech to discover it yet. The only discovered oil so far is in north Germany, and I'm not invading there.

Or if there's any in Africa?

I know Venezuela and Bolivia finds oil by early 1900s, cannot say about the rest.

RabidWeasel posted:

Here's an interesting question I've been considering: what country has the easiest time having access to all of the mid-late game resources without having to resort to colonies? I guess the biggest limiting factor here is oil and rubber.

I know "just go conquer some of SEA or Africa" is very in period but I like the idea of going all game without leaving my home region if at all possible.

Chile has a very easy time getting all the good stuff by eating Peru and Bolivia in the first 10 years or so. Most, if not all of their provinces are quickly integrateable too.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

losing a war should piss off the armed forces interest group along with anyone who possesses the patriot/jingoist trait.

Staltran
Jan 3, 2013

Fallen Rib

sloppy portmanteau posted:

Can anyone tell me which states in South America have good oil production? I don't think anyone there has the tech to discover it yet. The only discovered oil so far is in north Germany, and I'm not invading there.

Or if there's any in Africa?

La Paz and Santa Cruz have 30 each, Zulia has 60. None in Africa.

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
In what is probably peak paradox question posting, but how can I get other countries hooked on opium?

Magil Zeal
Nov 24, 2008

eXXon posted:

So they print errors with wrong variable names in the debug log but don't actually have a test to validate them in the build? Okay then...

This actually appears to be a fairly common thing in Paradox games; as someone who's written a few smaller mods, a lot of the time I catch vanilla code causing multiple entries in the error.log when a new patch/dlc drops. Sometimes they're not even addressed until one or more major patches later!

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

found the greatest mod of all time

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2881991855&searchtext=

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

sloppy portmanteau posted:

Can anyone tell me which states in South America have good oil production? I don't think anyone there has the tech to discover it yet. The only discovered oil so far is in north Germany, and I'm not invading there.

Or if there's any in Africa?
Potential oil producing regions:
  • In North America
    • Kansas (20)
    • Oklahoma (20)
    • Pennsylvania (36)
    • Ontario (40)
    • Alberta (50)
    • Texas (50)
    • California (60)
    • Rio Grande (50)
  • In South America
    • Zulia (60)
    • Santa Cruz (30)
    • La Paz (30)
  • In Western Europe
    • Friesland (30)
    • Elbe (30)
    • Hannover (30)
  • In Eastern Europe
    • West Galicia (36)
    • Wallachia (60)
    • Perm (60)
  • In Siberia
    • Nenetsia (30)
  • In Central Asia
    • Kuban (30)
    • Azerbaijan (60)
    • Samara (30)
    • Tartaria (60)
    • Uralsk(60)
  • In North Africa
    • Libyan Desert (30)
  • In the Middle East
    • Abu Dhabi (40)
    • Mosul (50)
    • Basra (60)
    • Fars (60)
  • In East Asia
    • Shanxi (30)
    • Chubu (30)
  • In Indonesia
    • East Borneo (60)
    • East Java (20)

sloppy portmanteau
Feb 4, 2019

KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

Potential oil producing regions:
  • In North America
    • Kansas (20)
    • Oklahoma (20)
    • Pennsylvania (36)
    • Ontario (40)
    • Alberta (50)
    • Texas (50)
    • California (60)
    • Rio Grande (50)
  • In South America
    • Zulia (60)
    • Santa Cruz (30)
    • La Paz (30)
  • In Western Europe
    • Friesland (30)
    • Elbe (30)
    • Hannover (30)
  • In Eastern Europe
    • West Galicia (36)
    • Wallachia (60)
    • Perm (60)
  • In Siberia
    • Nenetsia (30)
  • In Central Asia
    • Kuban (30)
    • Azerbaijan (60)
    • Samara (30)
    • Tartaria (60)
    • Uralsk(60)
  • In North Africa
    • Libyan Desert (30)
  • In the Middle East
    • Abu Dhabi (40)
    • Mosul (50)
    • Basra (60)
    • Fars (60)
  • In East Asia
    • Shanxi (30)
    • Chubu (30)
  • In Indonesia
    • East Borneo (60)
    • East Java (20)

Fantastic thank you.

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer


Is there any reason to use free trade? Because it would need to be a hell of a reason to turn down this kind of tariff money.

DurosKlav
Jun 13, 2003

Enter your name pilot!

Is it weird that I get oddly excited for my next game as I learn new things in my current one.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

Dramicus posted:



Is there any reason to use free trade? Because it would need to be a hell of a reason to turn down this kind of tariff money.

Money sucks, embrace SOL

Jarvisi
Apr 17, 2001

Green is still best.
Welfare really hosed me over. I just can't make enough jobs to make it so that it's not a neverending hole of workers. Also for some reason I can't get rid of the capitalists so they just suck up welfare and can never get jobs.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Popoto posted:

Well, in this case more than laws should it be a relationship bonus/malus depending on which IG is in charge?

this exists, it's "ideological similarity" and gives a bonus or penalty to accepting diplomatic offers that ranges from -10 to +10. one of the great advantages of autocracy and oligarchy is that you can just swap IGs into government to get this bonus and then swap back out after they accept

Lawman 0
Aug 17, 2010

Just unified Germany as Prussia and good lord can you make number go up real fast and then clown on people.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

Dramicus posted:



Is there any reason to use free trade? Because it would need to be a hell of a reason to turn down this kind of tariff money.

When you're small and want to trade a wide variety of goods in relatively low quantities. The Bureaucracy cost reduction is especially useful in the early game.

alcaras
Oct 3, 2013

noli timere
Still trying to get the hang of the eco game. Played a game as USA and one as a Brazil.

Some assorted feedback / questions, mostly around eco:

Construction & the Budget & Investment Pool
- It seems really easy to overbuild construction buildings and shoot yourself in the foot.
- I don't have a great sense of what the right number of construction buildings should be.
- My budget can swing wildly -- early game, the Investment Pool is pretty small and can run out -- when it does, suddenly I'm deep in the red
- It feels like a balancing act -- trying to run a small deficit, but not too big, and be able to crawl out if needed
- Feels micro intensive when transitioning between construction production methods -- e.g. can't really swap every construction center over to Steel right away, so have to do gradually while also building out steel production -- feels like micro busy work

Production methods
This feels so micro intensive. Every new tech I research I need to go through all my buildings that could benefit from that tech and decide whether to upgrade (assuming the raw materials are purchasable). Usually it's worth it as long as the stuff isn't hilariously expensive. But this feels incredibly micro intensive, especially in large nations (USA), especially if I want to be able to gradually step up a new production method (have to go into each state individually).

Railways and Infrastructure
I feel like I have to always subsidize railways, otherwise they're unprofitable and then my infrastructure decays and everything falls apart / death spirals. I've tried using Rail in all my buildings so that there's more demand for transportation to at least make Railways less unprofitable.

Authority
I feel like I have so little of it, esp. late game. I can maybe manage one luxury good tax. This is in a Free Market / Laissez Faire.

Taxation
I try to run at High Taxes with Low (but not Very Low) Government + Military Funding (unless Intelligentisa or Military are unhappy, which they are usually not), with one luxury good (usually Services or Luxury Clothes or Porcelain) if I can manage it -- not enough Authority!

Proportional Taxes seems best in terms of raw $$. Graduated Taxation seems to make less money and also taxes Dividends more which reduces the growth of the investment pool.

Early Priorities
I'm unclear what I should focus on early on:
- Build out construction & associated industries & extraction (I think?)
- Try to get industry going (the Economic tutorial seemed to want me to get steel mills up very early)
- Get every peasant a job by extracting resources (get rid of subsistence farmers)

Trade Routes
I'm not sure what I should be doing with these. They seem to always want more convoys, there's never enough.

My current approach is "Import input goods that are expensive" and then gradually have those phase out as I build out those import goods. Or things I don't have access to (Opium).

Exporting I haven't really seen the appeal of. e.g. exporting wheat just raises its price and makes my pops SoL lower, finished goods I need for my own industry. What's the upside of setting up explicit export trade routes? With Free Trade, won't other nations set up import routes which are effectively the same thing but don't take my convoys?

Late Game Oil and to a lesser extent Rubber
There's not enough to import -- In my USA game I was by far #1 production and no one else is making any oil it seems. I literally could not run all the oil building production methods I wanted because there was not enough Oil.

Rubber was similar until I went on a Central American conquest spree, but I would have much preferred to buy it from them than conquer -- but they weren't making it!

Government Formation
I don't quite get it. I had Andrew Jackson as perma president (he always got elected, was Abolitionist, and lived to 100) but I could freely not put the party that won the election into government? (The other parties had high clout so my legitimacy was fine too).

alcaras fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Oct 30, 2022

Jazerus
May 24, 2011


Dramicus posted:



Is there any reason to use free trade? Because it would need to be a hell of a reason to turn down this kind of tariff money.

only if you're small and actually dependent on trade to keep your economy running, since it makes it a lot cheaper to set up trade routes. large powers should either never switch to it or switch away from it once they're not small anymore

Stux
Nov 17, 2006

alcaras posted:

Authority
I feel like I have so little of it, esp. late game. I can maybe manage one luxury good tax. This is in a Free Market / Laissez Faire.

Taxation
I try to run at High Taxes with Low (but not Very Low) Government + Military Funding (unless Intelligentisa or Military are unhappy, which they are usually not), with one luxury good (usually Services or Luxury Clothes or Porcelain) if I can manage it -- not enough Authority!

i mean this is 100% on purpose. idk what youre expecting

Dramicus
Mar 26, 2010
Grimey Drawer

RabidWeasel posted:

Money sucks, embrace SOL

I... I've turned into America, I'm actively looking for oil producing provinces to invade so I can set up oil production. I need more oil. My people don't, but my arms industry does.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

alcaras posted:

Railways and Infrastructure
I feel like I have to always subsidize railways, otherwise they're unprofitable and then my infrastructure decays and everything falls apart / death spirals. I've tried using Rail in all my buildings so that there's more demand for transportation to at least make Railways less unprofitable.

This at least is entirely historical. Railways were/are never profitable.

There's actually a very interesting passage in Hobsbawm where he talks about the Railway Manias and how they always went bust but did at least provide enough demand to grow the steel industry.

Zeron
Oct 23, 2010
Yeah moving declared interest button is an easy fix.

Some other mods I like:
Dense Trade Routes: Makes the trade routes screen a lot better.
Dense Market Details: Same for market screen.
Construction Queue with States: Similar with the construction queue.
No American Colonization of Canada: Brute force fix for this, mainly an issue cause it was preventing Canada from forming.
Decentralized Nations Cannot Be Annexed: Brute force fix for countries being able to colonize super fast by just annexing them in uprisings.
Anbeeld's Revision of AI: Currently just messes with the economy, makes AI nations quite a bit more competitive even if it's not quite perfect yet. Helps with them not producing oil/rubber.
Improved Automation: Just adds a couple more checks to auto-expand, by default it keeps expanding even if you have no more pops or there's input shortages and this fixes that.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 27, 2007

organize digital employees



KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

This at least is entirely historical. Railways were/are never profitable.

There's actually a very interesting passage in Hobsbawm where he talks about the Railway Manias and how they always went bust but did at least provide enough demand to grow the steel industry.

Oh I should read Hobsbawm's book on this era, i never got around to that one

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Oh I should read Hobsbawm's book on this era, i never got around to that one

It's a whole trilogy!

Tiler Kiwi
Feb 26, 2011


great qing aka dont look at inputs dont look at outputs just slam whatever the gently caress anywhere, its all going to get exported anyways

also learned theres an arbitrary cap on the size of trade routes, fat russian fucks eating all my peoples rice

Marshal Prolapse
Jun 23, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Zeron posted:

Yeah moving declared interest button is an easy fix.

Some other mods I like:
Dense Trade Routes: Makes the trade routes screen a lot better.
Dense Market Details: Same for market screen.
Construction Queue with States: Similar with the construction queue.
No American Colonization of Canada: Brute force fix for this, mainly an issue cause it was preventing Canada from forming.
Decentralized Nations Cannot Be Annexed: Brute force fix for countries being able to colonize super fast by just annexing them in uprisings.
Anbeeld's Revision of AI: Currently just messes with the economy, makes AI nations quite a bit more competitive even if it's not quite perfect yet. Helps with them not producing oil/rubber.
Improved Automation: Just adds a couple more checks to auto-expand, by default it keeps expanding even if you have no more pops or there's input shortages and this fixes that.

Thanks for posting those! I figure the first few patches should clear out bug stuff, but new UI/UX is probably going to be on the back burner.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010
it turns out that Haiti has the French punishment payments for daring to win a slave revolt simulated in game, I see no clear way to get rid of them, and they eat over 90% of your income.

does it work on the other end? if you play as France are you constantly getting a pile of money from Haiti?

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Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

hey look,
a post
the trade routes one is a god send. all the other UI mods there are better but for the most part the base game UI works for me but god.... that trade menu is atrocious

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