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Some people were climbing up the sides of business to survive, and reporting says that the dead are mostly young adults, including a substantial number of teenagers. It's definitely not a joking matter.
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Oct 30, 2022 20:49
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Pasketti posted:I'm pretty concerned if this has any long-term implications tbh. People definitely gonna be mad for a loooooooong time. It is a disaster on the level of that ferry sinking, but it may be hard to pin this on specific people for why.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:29
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I don’t have even the beginning of a clue on how to prevent something like this happening again. How do you prevent people from heading en masse into urban areas?
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Oct 31, 2022 00:52
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you rebuild itaewon so it isnt so narrow
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Oct 31, 2022 00:53
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There was apparently no attempt at crowd control, the cops there were just looking for drugs because Halloween is foreign and everyone knows all foreigners have drugs.
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Oct 31, 2022 00:54
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thetoughestbean posted:I don’t have even the beginning of a clue on how to prevent something like this happening again. How do you prevent people from heading en masse into urban areas?
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Oct 31, 2022 01:09
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Ghostlight posted:not have affordable and reliable public transit. Yeah but the US largely doesn’t have that either and the only crush I can remember happened at a specific indoor music show where the musician was irresponsible and sold too many tickets
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Oct 31, 2022 01:16
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StrangersInTheNight posted:a lot of tankies are convinced that the reporting on China's authoritarian ways is dressed up by the CIA for manufacturing consent from the West regarding attacking China i think alot of it is a very "well i want to believe that their is an objective good guy and i know the US isnt because *insert abunch of legit reasons and a couple stupid ones* so china and putin must be the good guys because america is evil" instead of "wow geopolitics are hosed up and everyone is kinda awful when you dig deep enough, so try to make the place you live better and learn lessons from the past"
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Oct 31, 2022 01:53
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i think alot of it is a very "well i want to believe that their is an objective good guy and i know the US isnt because *insert abunch of legit reasons and a couple stupid ones* so china and putin must be the good guys because america is evil" instead of "wow geopolitics are hosed up and everyone is kinda awful when you dig deep enough, so try to make the place you live better and learn lessons from the past" It's literally the "the person who only knows one country knows no country" quote by that one sociologist. People who are raised on Western propaganda do the bare minimum to learn their countries' histories, and discover they were "lied" to. They then fail to take the next logical step of learning more history. It's ultimately a form of chauvinism, not bothering to actually learn about other nations/people but using them as props for domestic discourse.
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Oct 31, 2022 02:07
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:It's literally the "the person who only knows one country knows no country" quote by that one sociologist. People who are raised on Western propaganda do the bare minimum to learn their countries' histories, and discover they were "lied" to. They then fail to take the next logical step of learning more history. It's ultimately a form of chauvinism, not bothering to actually learn about other nations/people but using them as props for domestic discourse. I dunno, Eastern countries seem to do this as well
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Oct 31, 2022 02:09
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thetoughestbean posted:I dunno, Eastern countries seem to do this as well I'm sure, just didn't want to comment on a phenomena I have less real-world experience with. People are people everywhere, for better or worse.
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Oct 31, 2022 02:11
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:It's literally the "the person who only knows one country knows no country" quote by that one sociologist. People who are raised on Western propaganda do the bare minimum to learn their countries' histories, and discover they were "lied" to. They then fail to take the next logical step of learning more history. It's ultimately a form of chauvinism, not bothering to actually learn about other nations/people but using them as props for domestic discourse. yeah kinda. i remember seeing some fun post from the PYF tankie thread about some twitter user talking about how they would have sided with imperial japan against the US after pearl harbor because the soviets would have had an easier time winning or some horse poo poo.
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Oct 31, 2022 02:13
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The site of the crush looks to me like an alley that would have some fencing thrown up if it was handled like an actual festival/parade. Terrible tragedy
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Oct 31, 2022 02:40
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:It's literally the "the person who only knows one country knows no country" quote by that one sociologist. People who are raised on Western propaganda do the bare minimum to learn their countries' histories, and discover they were "lied" to. They then fail to take the next logical step of learning more history. It's ultimately a form of chauvinism, not bothering to actually learn about other nations/people but using them as props for domestic discourse. This is a big enough part of it to get quoted and bolded, although the rest seems true enough as well. People supporting country X purely as a way to oppose country Y are obviously going to have a skewed view on a lot of things in country X. It's especially weird for me, since I live in country X, and don't approve of country Y at all, but country X isn't exactly a paradise either.
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Oct 31, 2022 03:59
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Country X Im cool with. Country Y Im not huge on. But the Unnamed Country? Dont get me started...............
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Oct 31, 2022 04:15
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah kinda. i remember seeing some fun post from the PYF tankie thread about some twitter user talking about how they would have sided with imperial japan against the US after pearl harbor because the soviets would have had an easier time winning or some horse poo poo. What the gently caress? How does that even work? I can't really see how the Soviet Union gains at all from Japan trouncing American up and down the Pacific even if they could (they couldn't). If anything it might actually weaken them as America gets too distracted to do too much Lend-Lease to the Soviets or to open up a second front properly.
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Oct 31, 2022 04:43
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Tomn posted:What the gently caress? How does that even work? I can't really see how the Soviet Union gains at all from Japan trouncing American up and down the Pacific even if they could (they couldn't). If anything it might actually weaken them as America gets too distracted to do too much Lend-Lease to the Soviets or to open up a second front properly. Well, you see, tankies are incredibly stupid. Anyways, https://twitter.com/luluyilun/status/1586924226174652417?s=46&t=sGpqQlnycC3eVjtf50d-Ew Yeah I’m sure that it’s just covid laws, nothing else happened in Hong Kong in the last few years that might make it unappealing to businesses
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Oct 31, 2022 04:45
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You see, America bad. Imperial Japan was fighting America. Therefore, Imperial Japan good.
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Oct 31, 2022 04:46
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Grand Fromage posted:You see, America bad. Imperial Japan was fighting America. Therefore, Imperial Japan good. Grand Fromage revealing their secret identity to be W.E.B. DuBois
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Oct 31, 2022 04:52
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Kevin DuBrow posted:Some people were climbing up the sides of business to survive, and reporting says that the dead are mostly young adults, including a substantial number of teenagers. It's definitely not a joking matter. I'm a little surprised we don't see similar after the sporting events that spawn drunken hooligans to riot in the streets, though America's abysmally car-centric infrastructure has the side benefit of leaving too much space to create a crush event.
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Oct 31, 2022 05:02
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Tomn posted:What the gently caress? How does that even work? I can't really see how the Soviet Union gains at all from Japan trouncing American up and down the Pacific even if they could (they couldn't). If anything it might actually weaken them as America gets too distracted to do too much Lend-Lease to the Soviets or to open up a second front properly. idk, i think they were like 17 and dumb. there are a ton of those accounts that are just really young zoomers just discovering different flavors of politics and try to have to most unique opinions. Grand Fromage posted:You see, America bad. Imperial Japan was fighting America. Therefore, Imperial Japan good. basicaly this if i remember right. it was some bullshit that "well the us is the greater threat in the future so" etc. thetoughestbean posted:Well, you see, tankies are incredibly stupid. isnt that like half of the property/realtor stuff anyway. just buying empty buildings and then just millking them for value before flipping them but always keeping them empty?
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Oct 31, 2022 05:11
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Dapper_Swindler posted:just buying empty buildings and then just millking them for value before flipping them but always keeping them empty?
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Oct 31, 2022 05:30
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StrangersInTheNight posted:I've seen someone reject literally all reporting by American or European reporters as simply 'China Bad' and not to be trusted. So what, you're supposed to just...take the Chinese govt at face value?
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Oct 31, 2022 05:40
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Cugel the Clever posted:What value is in an empty building? The raw property value.
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Oct 31, 2022 05:42
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MarcusSA posted:The raw property value. property value only goes up if more people want to occupy it than available supply, and hk has a lot of square footage. If there’s more supply than demand, the value goes down
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Oct 31, 2022 05:49
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Cugel the Clever posted:What value is in an empty building?
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Oct 31, 2022 05:51
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MarcusSA posted:The raw property value. The whole "empty buildings = profit" is just a peculiar narrative that I most often see in left-NIMBY circles and I don't understand the reasoning behind it.
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Oct 31, 2022 05:51
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Yeah but if the market as whole is increasing they could flip it for a profit  When the market was in full swing this is definitely a thing people did and made lots of money doing.
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Oct 31, 2022 05:53
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I wish some of the old china posters were here to comment about free space in HK that's not being rented.
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Oct 31, 2022 06:04
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I'd dropped it from what I'd quoted, but the post included that half the properties were vacant. Flipping works when the market is tight and even then is done with as quick a turnaround as possible, handing off to buyers who'll actually use the property before the costs of ownership eat too far into the profit margin of the flip. But that doesn't sound like a market where half the properties are unutilized, unless buyers are all-in on tulip mania and flippers are flipping to flippers who flip to flippers. Edit: Not saying it's impossible, particularly in a country where the spectre of arbitrary authoritarian intervention has grossly warped the markets (to say nothing if the vacancy-inducing impact of spooky ghosts!), but it doesn't seem remotely sustainable for investors. Anyway, that's my random tangent. Cugel the Clever fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 06:05
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Cugel the Clever posted:The contention was that buildings are left intentionally empty, which seems like a great way to lose any profit which might be seen from an increasing property value. Without tenants, they'd be paying out the rear end for maintenance and taxes with no revenues to offset the loss. They could skimp on maintenance, but that might impact resale value. They could skimp on taxes if they're cronies, but still probably not enough to offset the cost of leaving the building empty. I half-remember an explanation for it involving the buildings being used as collateral for loans, but with their value as collateral being related to their rental price. So in the event of a lack of demand, it could actually be cheaper for landlords to avoid lowering the asking rental price (thereby forcing a reassessment of their loan collateral / rates) even if this meant receiving no rental income as the unattractive price meant that no-one wanted to rent the place. Could be missing stuff out, but I'm sure there are threads with people who can actually explain this stuff well.
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Oct 31, 2022 06:38
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Atopian posted:I half-remember an explanation for it involving the buildings being used as collateral for loans, but with their value as collateral being related to their rental price. luis rossman did a video about that a few years ago. Commerical loans are not like normal bank loans. dropping the rent triggers a bunch of problems with the commerical loans. now for hong kong/china there is also the fact china has capital controls Xi at the party congress talked about "common prosperity" and going by jack ma and other stuff posted in this thread about how Xi feels part of the issues russia has/had was allowing the creation of the oligarchs. People want to get their RMB out of china. I cant find it but there was a great article about how china took over money laundering for south mexican cartels. They secret is this, The cartel gives the cash to the chinese money launder who now has dollars that exist out side of china. He then has the RMB in china wired to the cartle or goods are purchased in china and shipped to the cartels in mexico for sale, and creation of paper trail. Heres the kicker those dollars are being sold to people in china with a commission of 40% thats means for every 100 dollars they buy they pay 40 dollars and they dont care it just the price of getting their money out of the reach of the CCP.
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Oct 31, 2022 06:44
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Ghostlight posted:i don't know what precisely they might have meant, but property flippers generally don't bother tenanting buildings because having tenants already locked into leases reduces buyer interest while not making you that much more since your whole goal is to only hold the property long enough for the market to move in your favour. I often look at property valuations for work though they are commercial not residential, and definitely having tenants in place increases the estimated value and the longer they're signed up for the better. Any lease will have provisions for rent reviews so they aren't locked in to yesterday's prices (though it's shocking how casually commercial landlords hand out half-rent periods rather than risk going vacant). Not necessarily applicable to high prestige apartment blocks getting traded around like chips, potentially?
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Oct 31, 2022 07:43
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steamed pork ribs for dinner, boneshard forecast, very high
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Oct 31, 2022 08:50
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thetoughestbean posted:I don’t have even the beginning of a clue on how to prevent something like this happening again. How do you prevent people from heading en masse into urban areas? e.g. by shaping nearby public transit: https://twitter.com/TfLAccess/status/1532325250016452609 crowd control barriers can also be used to enforce crowd flow control, canalize bottlenecks, limit rates of entrances to lower than exits, or demarcate zones for fire access, first responders, or relieving crowd pressure to an extent, until these things happen first, they are hard to enforce. The regulations are legitimized in blood. Without an awareness of what the barriers are for, resentment encourages people to vault them, which requires more resistant barriers, which are then themselves potential crush problems ronya fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Oct 31, 2022 |
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Oct 31, 2022 09:50
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Cugel the Clever posted:The contention was that buildings are left intentionally empty, which seems like a great way to lose any profit which might be seen from an increasing property value. Without tenants, they'd be paying out the rear end for maintenance and taxes with no revenues to offset the loss. They could skimp on maintenance, but that might impact resale value. They could skimp on taxes if they're cronies, but still probably not enough to offset the cost of leaving the building empty. I'm pretty sure that 90% of the "empty building" rhetoric comes from places that are retenanting or partially rented for some reason or another. You pretty much never have all the buildings rented all them time and it's also very rare for an entire building to be empty. However, you can profitably hold an empty building if you are in a property bubble, particularly any time where interest rates are significantly lower than property inflation which has been the case since roughly 2008 worldwide. This works as long as you don't hold any property when the interest rates rise or you go bankrupt because you can't refinance your balloon payment when the current loan matures. For most foreign investment that people complain about in Europe, US, Canada, etc. it's this though Ups_rail posted:now for hong kong/china there is also the fact china has capital controls Xi at the party congress talked about "common prosperity" and going by jack ma and other stuff posted in this thread about how Xi feels part of the issues russia has/had was allowing the creation of the oligarchs. People want to get their RMB out of china. Getting your money to a region with strong property rights and rule of law is worth a lot if you are currently parking it somewhere lucrative but with a high chance of being disappeared or taking flying lessons out of a 12th story window.
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Oct 31, 2022 15:30
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heh
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Oct 31, 2022 17:13
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He made graduation though
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Oct 31, 2022 17:47
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post itt if you’re quarantined in The Happiest Place in Shanghai
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Oct 31, 2022 18:24
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Does shanghai have water?
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Oct 31, 2022 19:12
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